Looking at a 1972 65 foot wooden Romsdahl
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Simi 60
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I guess you could be correct if you were incapable of doing anything, had to keep her in a marina and had to push water at 8.5 knots
But if you can do some stuff $$$ saved
Cruise her and don't use marinas (saves us $25,000 a year)
And do 7.5 knots instead of 8.5 (on ours 7.5 uses 3 gallons/hour)
It can be a lot more affordable.
You guys have me convinced. I need to look at a glass boat. As much as I imagine myself standing in varnishing and doing all that work realistically is probably too much for me. I have looked at some 40 to 50 foot trawlers that are fiberglass, most often with two diesels, that very in price from 50,000 to150,000, as well as just straight up yachts in that size and price range. I do really like the idea of a single screw and a displacement hull but most of what I'm looking at have twin diesels. Nice redundancy, but higher fuel burn and another engine to maintain. I've looked at Hershines, Marine Traders, Grand Banks, and a couple of Roughwaters in the 40 to 46 foot range only the Rough Water and one Marine Trader have a single screw. I've even looked at a 69 foot Pacemaker. Obviously the Pacemaker has the most room inside and is beautiful but it's also 2 big diesels and a 69 foot boat to maintain. I am scheduled to go and look at the Romsdahl this coming Saturday. I may cancel that just to protect myself from having a a wood moment
I would probably do a lot of or most of the basic maintenance and repairs on the boat. Some systems I might not be prepared for. Any major work on the diesels I would hand off to a mechanic. Bottom work and repairs for the most part I would hand off to yard. A single screw trawler, even of this size, would have to be less costly to run than something with twin diesels as far as fuel goes.
Simi 60
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The only work we do is anodes, oil change, rodding out heat exchanger, impellers, hoses and pumps.
On the timber side, I have chopped out cosmetic rot, new ply epoxy glass and primer
Everything else done by paid workers.
It's may not be as big a deal as others make out if you take the work boat approach.
The other side of the coin is we had a 60ft fibreglass boat beside us for a week with 5 guys polishing.
WTF?
5 minutes out of the shed and a bird is shitting on it. (-;
Comodave
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A single would save you some money on maintenance costs and give more room in the engine room but they will be very scarce in the size you are looking at. If you run a twin engine boat at slow speeds the fuel cost difference will not be huge. You still have to maintain 2 engines and work in tighter quarters but it will open up the available market of boats to look at. IMO, I would look for a boat that meets your needs in regards to space, etc. then look for the one in the best condition you can afford whether it is a single or a twin. Look for diesel engines that have parts available and mechanics in your area that can work on them. Personally I would not buy a boat with Volvos in it due to my personal experience with Volvo. But others love their Volvos.
Nomad Willy
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eclinden,
Consider that most all here on TF don’t know much at all about wood boats but most are quick to advise others. It’s not all bad. The standard advice is to look the other way and run. People tend to give this kind of advise because the’ve heard it from someone to many that appear to know what ther’e talking about. And when they repeat it they appear wise also.
I grew up during the years that FG boats were almost unknown. The only real option then was steel. And there were (and are) few steel pleasurecboats.
So everybody with a boat sanded, painted and otherwise did what was necessary to keep them up. Nobody had side thrusters, no hydraulic controls … most were chain and multi-strand wire, sheaves and sprockets.
The technologies were different. But most old school technology was simpler. Many more skippers worked on their own boats. Depending on size of course. When someone asked then “how much does it cost to paint my boat? it was assumed it was about the cost of paint, brushes, drop cloths and other equipment. Now days it means how much does it cost to hire someone to paint my boat? Get quotes and go mentality.
People with boats in general in the 50’s knew a lot more about how to maintain their boats than now. But it is a bit like this .. skippers knew how to caulk and paint, but now they know the same amount but it’s about different things like high tech electronics, epoxy, synthetic line and oil, and radar. Radar was way too expensive for all but the military in the 50’s. And what’s to know about a diesel engine wasn’t known as they were also too heavy and expensive to employ. So knowledge was just different .. not more of it .. or less.
And that brings up the big problem w owning a wood boat. The fitters and mechanics that worked on boats in the 50’s are mostly dead. And have mostly not been replaced. So the problem area on a wood boat is almost entirely the hull. And finding Monel screws, bolts and such VERY hard to find things.
So IMO the biggest problem is finding people to do the work. Often skippers now that known wood boats are also mechanics or/and shipwrights out of necessity.
And of course there’s insurance and marina’s that have problems w old wood boats. And there’s people working in boat yards that don’t know to put support under a boat where there is plenty of structural support inside the hull like heavy stringers or bulkheads to withstand the pressure of installed boat stands. Most of the time boat yard laborers are young lads w/o specific education and experience.
I’ve enjoyed reading the thread and hearing from those that know why wood boats are such a joy to be near and on.
Another thing worth remembering about wood boats is that they are made of pieces that can be duplicated and installed to replace structurally poor pieces .. w some skill. That’s basically not true of a FG or steel boat .. you must repair the hull.
Consider that most all here on TF don’t know much at all about wood boats but most are quick to advise others. It’s not all bad. The standard advice is to look the other way and run. People tend to give this kind of advise because the’ve heard it from someone to many that appear to know what ther’e talking about. And when they repeat it they appear wise also.
I grew up during the years that FG boats were almost unknown. The only real option then was steel. And there were (and are) few steel pleasurecboats.
So everybody with a boat sanded, painted and otherwise did what was necessary to keep them up. Nobody had side thrusters, no hydraulic controls … most were chain and multi-strand wire, sheaves and sprockets.
The technologies were different. But most old school technology was simpler. Many more skippers worked on their own boats. Depending on size of course. When someone asked then “how much does it cost to paint my boat? it was assumed it was about the cost of paint, brushes, drop cloths and other equipment. Now days it means how much does it cost to hire someone to paint my boat? Get quotes and go mentality.
People with boats in general in the 50’s knew a lot more about how to maintain their boats than now. But it is a bit like this .. skippers knew how to caulk and paint, but now they know the same amount but it’s about different things like high tech electronics, epoxy, synthetic line and oil, and radar. Radar was way too expensive for all but the military in the 50’s. And what’s to know about a diesel engine wasn’t known as they were also too heavy and expensive to employ. So knowledge was just different .. not more of it .. or less.
And that brings up the big problem w owning a wood boat. The fitters and mechanics that worked on boats in the 50’s are mostly dead. And have mostly not been replaced. So the problem area on a wood boat is almost entirely the hull. And finding Monel screws, bolts and such VERY hard to find things.
So IMO the biggest problem is finding people to do the work. Often skippers now that known wood boats are also mechanics or/and shipwrights out of necessity.
And of course there’s insurance and marina’s that have problems w old wood boats. And there’s people working in boat yards that don’t know to put support under a boat where there is plenty of structural support inside the hull like heavy stringers or bulkheads to withstand the pressure of installed boat stands. Most of the time boat yard laborers are young lads w/o specific education and experience.
I’ve enjoyed reading the thread and hearing from those that know why wood boats are such a joy to be near and on.
Another thing worth remembering about wood boats is that they are made of pieces that can be duplicated and installed to replace structurally poor pieces .. w some skill. That’s basically not true of a FG or steel boat .. you must repair the hull.
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Another one of the yarns spun here is that twins cost twice the cost of singles.
Like saying sail is cheaper than power.
Can be, but also can be the other way.
When you power up your boat, whether single or twin, you pay for the hp. It doesn't matter whether that hp is supplied by one engine, two, three or more.
Case in point:
I have twins on my boat: 2 x 200 hp
I have a single in my Motorhome: 1 x 400 hp
At the parts store last time I did simultaneous oil changes, I put 10 litres in each of my 200 hp diesels, 20 l in the 400.
The two oil filters for the 200s, together, cost exactly the same as the filter for the 400.
Props, I have a pair of 19 x 17 on 1.75" shafts. If I was pushing the same boat with a single, I would be running a 32 x 24 on a 2 or 3" shaft.
etc.
Like saying sail is cheaper than power.
Can be, but also can be the other way.
When you power up your boat, whether single or twin, you pay for the hp. It doesn't matter whether that hp is supplied by one engine, two, three or more.
Case in point:
I have twins on my boat: 2 x 200 hp
I have a single in my Motorhome: 1 x 400 hp
At the parts store last time I did simultaneous oil changes, I put 10 litres in each of my 200 hp diesels, 20 l in the 400.
The two oil filters for the 200s, together, cost exactly the same as the filter for the 400.
Props, I have a pair of 19 x 17 on 1.75" shafts. If I was pushing the same boat with a single, I would be running a 32 x 24 on a 2 or 3" shaft.
etc.
jungpeter
Guru
Not that it's particularly relevant, but I'm unclear why this boat is called a Romsdahl. The add clearly shows the builder as Herbert Woods, England. And the profile certainly looks more like a Malahide to me.
Again, no big deal. Whatever it's lineage, it's certainly an old, large wooden boat. Easy to buy, VERYlVERY expensive to own, and VERY, VERY difficult to sell. While the efficacy of crowdsourcing a buy/don't buy decision on a boat based on anecdotal, often irrelevant experience, well, good luck with that. Not my cup of tea.
Regards,
Pete
Again, no big deal. Whatever it's lineage, it's certainly an old, large wooden boat. Easy to buy, VERYlVERY expensive to own, and VERY, VERY difficult to sell. While the efficacy of crowdsourcing a buy/don't buy decision on a boat based on anecdotal, often irrelevant experience, well, good luck with that. Not my cup of tea.
Regards,
Pete
The buy no buy decision will either happen before I have a survey or afterward. There is no crowdsourcing going on here. I believe it wise to post these questions out here where much more experienced people can offer their opinions. Some are truly helpful, others, even the curmudgeons with crappy attitudes have something to offer. Buying any boat is not a completely logical decision. Looking at it strictly economically none of us would buy boats. Neither should it be at entirely emotional decision. But who can look at a beautiful old wooden boat and not feel a sense of nostalgia and yearning and history. The truth in a decision like this lies somewhere between you just gotta have this boat because it makes you feel so good, and, go ahead and bankrupt yourself. So I ask a lot of questions, my taking all of the answers, and helped me build the picture of what I need to look at and pay attention to what I can expect. It's all helpful.
Yeah I I suspect the reality is somewhere between Nirvana and hell. I'm going to look at the boat and from what I find I'm going to talk to the boat yard and asked him what it would cost just what I see. At that point I want to go forward I get the surveyor out there to give me a detailed list. Then I think about it again and adjust the offer if I want it. Earlier in the thread it was noted that this boat had been online posted in the 60s. So there's some room to work. So if I do decide to move forward with it this can have to be enough adjustment in the price to pay for most or all of the significant repairs, but not a refit. I'm just to keep soaking up what the more experienced people here have to offer.
Hopefully I'll be able to do both with it. My hope is to live on it full-time and also take some longer distance cruises with friends and family. I would need to get to know the boat really well and be confident in the hall and systems before I went any distance with it. I don't need it to be in Bristol condition, but I do need it to be seaworthy and sound.
BruceK
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eclinden, it`s a special but challenging vessel many would want to give every chance while balancing the practicalities. You probably need to go down the rabbit hole. Doubt I`m the only one interested in what inspection reveals.
I don't see her as a derelict by any stretch.
Your first post contains lots of info....I would analyze the yard bill that mentions hull plank replacement....see if you can detemine the reason and extent of repair...damage? deterioation? condidion of underlying structure? was it an emergency repair to eleminate constant bilge pump operation? or a scheduled repair to correct a condition observed on last few haulouts? Any photos showing condition as found after opening up?
Perhaps this hull repair can help you predict future expected costs.
The other items appear to be maintenance items to be expected with any hull material.
As for varnish, why not tastefully paint over worst sections, putting them on 'hold', until you can tackle individually on a time frame as you see fit.
As for engine, it may well be fine...surely owner has fuel consumption records so you can have facts instead of guesswork to work with.
Is there any chance a marina would appreciate having a well maintained boat of great style and character in their midst? You know exactly where many restaurant patrons would rest their gaze!
Your first post contains lots of info....I would analyze the yard bill that mentions hull plank replacement....see if you can detemine the reason and extent of repair...damage? deterioation? condidion of underlying structure? was it an emergency repair to eleminate constant bilge pump operation? or a scheduled repair to correct a condition observed on last few haulouts? Any photos showing condition as found after opening up?
Perhaps this hull repair can help you predict future expected costs.
The other items appear to be maintenance items to be expected with any hull material.
As for varnish, why not tastefully paint over worst sections, putting them on 'hold', until you can tackle individually on a time frame as you see fit.
As for engine, it may well be fine...surely owner has fuel consumption records so you can have facts instead of guesswork to work with.
Is there any chance a marina would appreciate having a well maintained boat of great style and character in their midst? You know exactly where many restaurant patrons would rest their gaze!
Comodave
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Buying a boat is extremely logical. Ask my wife. We were going to buy a new boat and the dealer didn’t want to take our current boat in trade except at a fire sale price. So they said they would consign it for no fee. 3 weeks later my wife said to me during a general conversation “ would you just go buy a damned boat”. I looked at her and asked why she said that. She said she was tired of living with me since I was so bitchy. So it made perfectly logical sense to her for us to go buy a boat. I bought one the next day and she was much happier. So who says it doesn’t make logical sense to buy a boat has not talked to my wife. We have been married 50 years as of last August. We are on our 24th boat. I always try to remind her that she has got a great deal going and not to mess it up.
I still have a 1985 Chris craft stinger 26 foot. Glass boat twin 350s, candy apple red. I remember in Florida I would cruise all around the St. John's River and the area near Jacksonville. Whenever I would tie that boat up at a restaurant it was exactly like you say all the ryes rested on it. It was very common for a group of attractive ladies to walk out to it to get their picture taken in front of it. They would usually run off when they saw me coming with my knuckles dragging I suspect this trawler would do the same thing. I have some pictures from an earlier hall out where a lot of work was done on the hall and you can see little patches of wood rot where they were going to have to repair it. I'll try to pull those together and post them here.
I suspect this trawler would do the same thing. I have some pictures from an earlier hall out where a lot of work was done on the hall and you can see little patches of wood rot where they were going to have to repair it. I'll try to pull those together and post them here.I just created an album under my profile it contains a bunch of pictures about the Triton from the survey report in 2017. Not quite sure how to a create a link to get to it but it is public so everybody should be able to see it.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/members/30704-albums1204.html
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/members/30704-albums1204.html
backinblue
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That's not what I meant and I agree with you it's fine to paint wood. I was questioning this particular person who seems to want a wood boat and one of his first questions is how should he care for the outside wood and what should he paint it with if he doesn't want to varnish. Just seems like another red flag among many in this thread.
backinblue
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Thanks for posting. Seems like a minimal survey as many things were not run or tested. But keep in mind this was 5 years ago and possibly little has improved since then an more likely further decayed. Sounds like the hull has a lot of soft wet spots. Also, none of the 4 heads are operational? Some signs of deck leaks etc. If you want to take on a project boat like this I wish you the best, just not something I would want to do.
Bluewater2
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A lot of very negative advice/comments on here. We’ve owned two wooden sailboats - one in the UK/Europe and one here in the USA. I loved them both and still miss the warmth and smell of the timbers. We don’t choose our boats - they choose us…..if the frames, keel, stem, stringers, shelves, planks, decks, etc are in good shape and the boat is appealing to you - then why not? To us, boats are an emotional (tempered by reality and practicality) decision. And a slow-turning Kelvin!! Wonderful!! That’s a lovely and seamanlike looking boat……
I share your same concerns on those points. The way I read this is that none of the heads are operational. That's insane. I asked him about this on the phone and he said they didn't meet the legal requirements for the bay. I wonder, does that mean they're discharging overboard rather than into the holding tank? Well that's a big adjustment to the purchase price. He said the generator was debugged to the circuit board and Cummins tells me that it's a $200-$400 replacement. Not too big a deal if that's what it really is. The spar apparently has been left unvarnished since this last survey.
I plan on having this survey in my hand as I walk through the boat this coming Saturday and I'm going to look at everything that I can see. It will be in the water so I can't verify that the hull was repaired properly a few months ago but he claims it was. I will decide after going through the boat if I want to continue and have a survey done. It is disappointing to see so many deficiencies from five years ago that haven't been addressed. But I'll find out this weekend.
backinblue
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Since you already have a boat purchase budget, I wouldn't worry about what to offer at this time. If you decide to go forward with the survey, try to get estimates on required repairs that you can't do yourself and then subtract that from your budget and see what you are left with. I would assume that no survey will find every issue so in your budget I would plan for some unexpected expenses during the first year of ownership as you discover things during use. That goes for any used boat, not just this one. I would wonder why the owner didn't spend a couple hundred on the generator repair. Sounds a little suspicious so I would require that repair to be completed and verified before purchase.
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Of all the boats I've been looking at this is undoubtedly my favorite in its appeal to me. I've never owned a wooden boat before but I did own a steel boat. It required that I develop skills in metalwork and welding. Once I developed those skills cutting out and re-welding bad patches was pretty easy.
Going to see the boat this Saturday. I will walk through it with this old survey in my hand and check to see that all the discrepancies have been taken care of. I already know that some have not been. The heads, the generator, and the foreword spar for example. I will catalog everything that I see, get a quote on the repairs, deduct them from the cost of the boat pending the survey, make an offer and if I am still ready to go, follow up with a survey and probably further adjustments to the price. It may be that what is necessary is so extensive that is just not worth bothering with. I sure hope not.
I like the idea of requiring the generator repair before purchase. If it needs a new generator that could be $20-$30,000 for a 15 kW purchase and installation. If it's not repaired that I have to budget for replacement and that comes out of the purchase price. Same with the heads.
Give Hagerty Insurance a call.....they came along during the big wooden boat renaissance of the mid '80s.
Also, I would think the boat's build year of '72 would be in its favor as opposed to something from the '30s or '40s
https://www.hagerty.com
Also, I would think the boat's build year of '72 would be in its favor as opposed to something from the '30s or '40s
https://www.hagerty.com
Here are some photos of Sovereign, a 1972 65'Malahide, so comparable. To achieve this level of elegance you will need some serious $.
https://cruisingyachts.net/prewowned-yacht/65-custom-malahide-long-range-trawler/
https://cruisingyachts.net/prewowned-yacht/65-custom-malahide-long-range-trawler/
I guess that's what Bristol condition looks like?
Nomad Willy
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There was an article in an old Passagemaker magazine about a couple that bought an old wood boat in SoCal. It was a good story … one you could read that was first hand experience. This boat had a Gardner engine.
I’ll try and find it.
Edit:
Looked through 50 mags.
No find
I’ll try and find it.
Edit:
Looked through 50 mags.
No find
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