NC Marina DESTROYED by fire!

[markpierce]

ColonyCove wrote:

*Happy hour tonight is going to be double-shots.

I only have "heavy-duty" eggnog in stock.* Not an appropriate drink for this occasion.* I'll need to pick up some bourbon.

*

 

[JD]

GonzoF1 wrote:

*
JD wrote:Several cords have gone bad in our marina and one of the reasons sighted by an electrician was there is a fair amount of stray current running through the ground system.* But the marina says it is not a problem and chooses to ignore it.
That explains a lot. When we left there and put Skinny Dippin' up for work before we journeyed to our new home, there was, what I would say, an accelerated amount of depletion on our zincs and spotty corrosion on most of the underwater metal.

**BTW** JD and I were in the same marina until recently.

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 9th of January 2011 02:29:04 PM

In fact a GB that was right down from Skinny was the one that destroyed two power cords in a short time.* The owner got*an electrician who identified the problem as in the box on the dock and not on the boat.* It took several weeks of discussions for the marina to pony up and fix the box and replace the two power cords.* That boat has since*left the marina.

It seems that the problem*is that when we get high water (NE sustained wind) the water sometime gets over the docks.* Mostly during a Hurricane or named storm.*The*electrical boxes are mounted to low so over the years they have been under water more than once.*Water gets up*over the boxes and crodes the breakers.*The repair plan has been to wait until the*breakers*fail and then replace them.* It is obvious that the problem is known by the marina*staff because when a dock that did not have electrical boxes was wired several years ago the new boxes were installed at least two feet higher than any of the old boxes.

So I just keep a close eye on mine but the problem is that everyone isn't so diligent.* So folks don't come down to their boat for months on end and even if they did they wouldn't have a clue as to what is wrong or what to look for. *As was the case last week so other boats suffer as well.

*


-- Edited by JD on Monday 10th of January 2011 08:02:34 AM

 

[rwidman]

JD wrote:
I presently and for the last several years have used Dielectric Grease on all of my shore power cords and it has done an outstanding job of keeping everything dry and connected.* I have several different types but it can be bought at any Radio Shack.

Several cords have gone bad in our marina and one of the reasons sighted by an electrician was there is a fair amount of stray current running through the ground system.* But the marina says it is not a problem and chooses to ignore it.

*

You can buy dielectric grease at your favorite auto parts store.* Using it on shorepower connections is a very good idea.

"Stray current running through the ground system" should not cause electrical cords to fail.* The current carrying capability of the grounded conductor is the same as the other conductors.

Measuring the temperature of the connection with an IR thermometer after drawing* near maximum current for several minutes is a quick way to identify a potential problem.

*


-- Edited by rwidman on Monday 10th of January 2011 08:53:06 AM

 

[JD]

rwidman wrote:


JD wrote:
I presently and for the last several years have used Dielectric Grease on all of my shore power cords and it has done an outstanding job of keeping everything dry and connected.* I have several different types but it can be bought at any Radio Shack.

Several cords have gone bad in our marina and one of the reasons sighted by an electrician was there is a fair amount of stray current running through the ground system.* But the marina says it is not a problem and chooses to ignore it.You can buy dielectric grease at your favorite auto parts store.* Using it on shorepower connections is a very good idea.

"Stray current running through the ground system" should not cause electrical cords to fail.* The current carrying capability of the grounded conductor is the same as the other conductors.

Measuring the temperature of the connection with an IR thermometer after drawing* near maximum current for several minutes is a quick way to identify a potential problem.
-- Edited by rwidman on Monday 10th of January 2011 08:53:06 AMLet me clarify.* The stray current is on the White Common.* Not the Green Ground.

Here is a quote from someone who is a well respected electrician.

"The white wire should be grounded and at zero potential at all times. Such a high voltage on the white wire suggests the neutral to ground connection is NOT secure and should be fixed. Its probably due to corrosion of a connector. At some point it could rise to a lethal level and electrocute somebody. "

Sorry for the confusion.


*

 

[BornSailor2]

I think that a major cause of electrical fires on boats are caused by the new cheap electric heaters imported by all the Major Home Stores like Home Depot, Lowes and Walmart.* Some are not UL Aprroved - They don't have 3 wire Ground Plug.* They also don't have tip over shut off protection.** Although I have purchased and used them I still am very weary of them.* I guess you get what you pay for.* It's difficult now a days to buy anything that has safety features and is American Made. Even the individual Electric Supply places can't order quaility equipment anymore.

BS

 

[JD]

BornSailor2 wrote:

I think that a major cause of electrical fires on boats are caused by the new cheap electric heaters imported by all the Major Home Stores like Home Depot, Lowes and Walmart.* Some are not UL Aprroved - They don't have 3 wire Ground Plug.* They also don't have tip over shut off protection.** Although I have purchased and used them I still am very weary of them.* I guess you get what you pay for.* It's difficult now a days to buy anything that has safety features and is American Made. Even the individual Electric Supply places can't order quaility equipment anymore.

BS

What you say may be true but this fire, in the preliminary investigation,*was said to have been caused by a bad connector from the shore power cord.* So ground wires, tip over switches or*UL approved fixtures*would not have*prevented this fire.

*

 

[sunchaser]

Born Sailor - So why again do you buy a cheap electric heater for your boat and let it tip over? They do make good low profile ones and you can unplug it while you are underway. My favorite though is the tall oil filled type I park in my ER.

 

[rwidman]

JD wrote:Let me clarify.* The stray current is on the White Common.* Not the Green Ground.

Here is a quote from someone who is a well respected electrician.

"The white wire should be grounded and at zero potential at all times. Such a high voltage on the white wire suggests the neutral to ground connection is NOT secure and should be fixed. Its probably due to corrosion of a connector. At some point it could rise to a lethal level and electrocute somebody. "

Sorry for the confusion.

*



I'm not saying that's not a hazzard or that the marina should not repair it, but I don't believe it could damage shorepower cords.

*

 

[Arctic Traveller]

Here is a quote from someone who is a well respected electrician.

"The white wire should be grounded and at zero potential at all times. Such a high voltage on the white wire suggests the neutral to ground connection is NOT secure and should be fixed. Its probably due to corrosion of a connector. At some point it could rise to a lethal level and electrocute somebody. "

Sorry for the confusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is all true, but should not contribute to an overheated connector.* Heat is developed in connectors for several reasons, all of which go back to increased resistance.* Resistance can be due to corrosion,moisture loose connections, overloading etc.* Heaters are devices that draw considerable current for long periods of time, allowing the heat in the connection to build possibly to the point of fire.* Check your cords and replace any that show signs of overheating.* Better yet, switch to the Smart Plug and stop worrying..............Arctic Traveller*


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[FF]

"Has there been any determination of the cause yet? None was mentioned in the article."

I would guess the economy and minor resale value of so many boat "investments".

Should we have a normal hurricane season this year ,

I expect the number of boats "lost" to be at record highs.

 

[Forkliftt]

AT,
I checked out the Smart Plug website. A very nice looking product. Have you converted to it?

 

[rwidman]

Forkliftt wrote:

AT,
I checked out the Smart Plug website. A very nice looking product. Have you converted to it?

It does look nice, but it's pretty expensive, especially if you carry two (different length) cords.

I hesitate to go with something that's not "standard".* Once you change the inlet, you can only use that brand of cord*or plug.* That means if yours is lost or damaged, you have no power until you can get a replacement.* With a standard inlet, replacements can be found at any marine store and most marinas.*

 

[Moonstruck]

rwidman wrote:



It does look nice, but it's pretty expensive, especially if you carry two (different length) cords.

I hesitate to go with something that's not "standard".* Once you change the inlet, you can only use that brand of cord*or plug.* That means if yours is lost or damaged, you have no power until you can get a replacement.* With a standard inlet, replacements can be found at any marine store and most marinas.*

Good point.* I hadn't not thought of that.* My present boat has a Glendinning Cable Master with the boaty end hard connected.* Seeing all this, it looks like a good thing.

*

 

[Arctic Traveller]

*

It does look nice, but it's pretty expensive, especially if you carry two (different length) cords.

I hesitate to go with something that's not "standard".* Once you change the inlet, you can only use that brand of cord*or plug.* That means if yours is lost or damaged, you have no power until you can get a replacement.

rwidman wrote:Good point.* I hadn't not thought of that.* My present boat has a Glendinning Cable Master with the boaty end hard connected.* Seeing all this, it looks like a good thing.It's true they are not cheap.* It's also true that it's "non standard" and that's the whole point.* The standard twist lock plug has not been improved in something like 50 years, and was a poor design to begin with.* The Smart Plug eliminates all of the design deficiencies of the old plug, resulting in one that is highly unlikely to ever set your boat (or your neighbors) on fire.*

It's unlikely you will ever damage one, since once you see it and handle it, you will see it's built like a tank.* Should your cord become damaged, simply remove the plug, and install it on the new one.*

Should you loose your cord set (overboard perhaps?) you will find all the major marine stores are carrying them now, and as time goes on, I'm sure there will be more. The reason they are getting so easy to find is that it is a great solution to a common, possibly deadly problem.**

Also, hardwiring the boat end certainly eliminates the problem, but most folks don't have the room to store the cord at the inlet. *

Again, I have no connection with the company other than being a satisfied customer............Arctic Traveller

*

 

[Jay N]

Arctic Traveller wrote:It's true they are not cheap.* It's also true that it's "non standard" and that's the whole point.* The standard twist lock plug has not been improved in something like 50 years, and was a poor design to begin with.* The Smart Plug eliminates all of the design deficiencies of the old plug, resulting in one that is highly unlikely to ever set your boat (or your neighbors) on fire.*

Unfortunately, I rebuilt both showerpower plugs just prior to SmartPlug release, so will go with existing for a couple of years.* The key to shorepower safety on WESTERLY is*to*minimize load along with regular/frequent inspection/maintenance of shore/boat connections.*

Expect to*go with SmartPlug in a couple of years.* Hopefully, my marina will install the shoreside version at the same time thereby eliminating the other half of the shorepower vulnerability.

*

 

[Keith]

BornSailor2 wrote:

I think that a major cause of electrical fires on boats are caused by the new cheap electric heaters imported by all the Major Home Stores like Home Depot, Lowes and Walmart.* Some are not UL Aprroved - They don't have 3 wire Ground Plug.* They also don't have tip over shut off protection.** Although I have purchased and used them I still am very weary of them.* I guess you get what you pay for.* It's difficult now a days to buy anything that has safety features and is American Made. Even the individual Electric Supply places can't order quaility equipment anymore.

BS

The most common cause of boat fires is 12V wiring, or I guess I should say defective 12V wiring and shorts. This is according to the statistics from Boat/US Insurance.

*

 

[Arctic Traveller]

The most common cause of boat fires is 12V wiring, or I guess I should say defective 12V wiring and shorts. This is according to the statistics from Boat/US Insurance.

I just read a letter in Latitude 38's November issue written by an electrical engineer (page 26 and available at www.latitude38.com) about a defective shore power cord that was so worn that it was able to be plugged in, in any of the three possible positions.* It was plugged in* wrong, and the result was the hot wire ended up being connected to the boats ground wire.* Someone nearly died as a result of simply touching a metal backstay.* Also mentioned was the fact that the current plug configuration was designed in the 30s, not the 50s as I mentioned earlier.* In addition, he mentions the fact that the smallest pin is the neutral, which always overheats first.* When this happens, resistance is raised on the critical return path to ground, and the current will take all other possible paths to ground including through the water or the safety ground.* This is a serious safety hazard.* The letter then goes on to praise the new Smart Plug as solving all these problems.* So, the old plug is not just a fire hazard, it's an electrocution hazard too..........................Arctic Traveller


*

 

[Capn Chuck]

Waterway Guide and the Salty Southeast Cruisers Net, the two most trusted names for USA cruising information, have joined forces to help those who lost so much, and gave so much, during the recent, dramatic fire at McCotters Marina in Washington, North Carolina. Those of you who have not yet heard about this tragic event can learn more from the Waterway Guide Discussion Board at http://www.waterwayguide.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=277, and from the home page of the Cruisers Net at http://www.CruisersNet.net.

There were heroes aplenty in this tragedy, many of them fellow cruisers. A host of live-aboards lost everything they own, and others lost vessels that had undergone years of restoration work. The Red Cross is currently housing some of the affected cruisers at the local Days Inn in Washington, NC, but that offer of lodging will run out soon. With the North Carolina coast in the firm grip of old man winter, these brother and sister cruisers need our help!

So, in the spirit of the long standing tradition of cruisers helping cruisers, Waterway Guide and the Cruisers Net are now jointly sponsoring a Fire Relief Fund to aid the 26 boat owners whose vessels were either totally destroyed or heavily damaged, and McCotters Marina, which lost a goodly portion of its dockage. At last report, the entire marina was still considered a Haz-Mat area, and no one was being allowed back aboard their vessels.

Waterway Guide and the Cruisers Net will jointly collect funds until 2/28/11. At that time, we will distribute all the collected funds equally to the affected boat owners, and a share to McCotters Marina. To get the ball rolling, Waterway Guide and the Cruisers Net jointly pledge $300.00 to the Fire Relief Fund!

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SSECN - WATERWAY GUIDE FIRE RELIEF FUND, please send a check for any amount, made out to the "SSECN - Waterway Guide Fire Relief Fund," to:

SSECN Waterway Guide Fire Relief Fund
P. O. Box 67
Elon, NC 27244-0067

While checks are easier for us to process, you can also contribute via credit card by calling 336-266-1369. Please have your credit card #, expiration date, security code, and the amount you want to contribute, ready!

Thanks in advance to everyone who decides to help. Our fellow cruisers are counting on us, so dont delay!

Chuck Baier
Claiborne Young

-- Edited by Capn Chuck on Thursday 13th of January 2011 12:06:13 PM