Offer accepted on 29' trawler, Windlass Question

[BrianG]

Getting close to pulling the trigger on a nice little trawler. Passed survey today. Boat has manual windlass. Boat Weighed in at 11,000 lbs on the hoist. I have a older but nice Ideal windlass in the garage. Should I go with the electric Ideal if the sale pushes through? Boat is for channel islands CA use. If I go electric do I have to add a third battery? it's about a 12' run from the batteries to the windlass. Presumably a #2 gauge 12v wire.

 

[Comodave]

Getting close to pulling the trigger on a nice little trawler. Passed survey today. Boat has manual windlass. Boat Weighed in at 11,000 lbs on the hoist. I have a older but nice Ideal windlass in the garage. Should I go with the electric Ideal if the sale pushes through? Boat is for channel islands CA use. If I go electric do I have to add a third battery? it's about a 12' run from the batteries to the windlass. Presumably a #2 gauge 12v wire.

In CA you will, I assume, be anchoring in fairly deep waters. I would not want to be pulling the anchor by hand. If you have the windlass already, I would definitely put it on. What is the current draw of the windlass? You need that to see what size wire is required.

 

[BrianG]

In CA you will, I assume, be anchoring in fairly deep waters. I would not want to be pulling the anchor by hand. If you have the windlass already, I would definitely put it on. What is the current draw of the windlass? You need that to see what size wire is required.

That's what I was thinking too Como. But Yikes, that might me tricky, it's an old ideal, dunno what the amps draw is, i'll try and find out.

 

[rsn48]

You are best to have a seperate battery for the windlass. Since it is an older boat I'm assuming it doesn't have a bow thruster. If it does have a thruster, then use that battery or add another battery to it.

 

[Comodave]

Do you know what the model is? Can probably find a manual online. Without knowing the current draw you can’t make a knowledgeable decision on the cable size.

 

[OldDan1943]

Add another house battery and consider putting in a larger alternator....
If you are pulling the anchor put it in a higher than normal RPM to keep the batteries up.
(I'm setting myself up for comments and criticism)

 

[O C Diver]

As mentioned, check the amperage draw on the windlass. A better plan would be to idle up the engine to handle the windlass draw and then throttle back before moving the boat forward for the next take up. Second point is that the voltage will be higher from the alternator making the electric motor run more efficiently and generating less heat.

Ted

 

[kchace]

Depending on your house bank size and the windlass draw, it may or may not make sense to add another battery. I would certainly resist adding more complexity and maintenance if not necessary. Since the engine should be running anyway when using the windlass, idling up the engine can allow the alternator to take a large portion of the load which further reduces the need for an extra battery.


Ken

 

[FlyWright]

As a sturgeon angler I do a LOT of anchoring, albeit in only 20-50 ft of water. I typically anchor 3-5 times per day when fishing the CA Delta. I power my windlass from my start battery since my engines are running whenever the windlass is used. This saves my house bank for house loads.

It's never been a problem.

 

[OldDan1943]

Depending on your house bank size and the windlass draw, it may or may not make sense to add another battery. I would certainly resist adding more complexity and maintenance if not necessary. Since the engine should be running anyway when using the windlass, idling up the engine can allow the alternator to take a large portion of the load which further reduces the need for an extra battery.


Ken

Oh come on, that is too simple of an answer.
If you have an electronic controlled engine.... it will shut down when you slow the engine.....
Been there done that. Now, if you have a separate starting battery and the one could parallel the batteries..... but, get the batteries replaced ASAP

 

[Nomad Willy]

I think you guys are stuck in bigger boat thinking. This is a 30’ boat weighing considerably less that my Willard.
I agree though if he is doing much anchoring he should have a windlass. But the big old windlass he has will not draw enough amps to need a separate battery. But that may depend on the size of the house batts. My house batts are small and I’ve not ever run them down. And the power required will depend mostly on the weight of the anchor being used.

 

[OldDan1943]

I think you guys are stuck in bigger boat thinking. This is a 30’ boat weighing considerably less that my Willard.
I agree though if he is doing much anchoring he should have a windlass. But the big old windlass he has will not draw enough amps to need a separate battery. But that may depend on the size of the house batts. My house batts are small and I’ve not ever run them down. And the power required will depend mostly on the weight of the anchor being used.

I went though this one time when I was use the bow thruster while docking.
Turned out the batteries could not hold enough of a bow thruster (drawing from the start battery) without shutting down the engine. I put the thruster on the house batteries, added a third house battery. Now the main engine will remain running so can dock without the bow thruster.

 

[C lectric]

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/converting-ideal-windlass-to-up-and-down-213958.html


Link to an Ideal windlass thread on Cruiser Forum. Post # 7 there is a wiring diagr. from up and down. Enlarge it and study to see if yours in convertible to UP & DOwn.
e
Take a look through their list of manuals also for a complete manual. I have not checked.

 

[mvweebles]

Yes on the windlass in Channel Islands. Anchorages are pretty deep.

I agree with Nomad Willy that no heroic measures needed for the battery bank - use your existing bank (assumes decent condition) but obviously, keep engine running (which is normal anyway). Given you're a small boat, not a big deal, but (and you may know this but bears repeating just in case), best practice is to not drag your boat forward with windlass but rather bump in forward gear and use the windlass to take-up slack in rode. When you are right over the anchor, bring the rode taut, then pause to give the anchor a chance to wiggle itself loose - rinse/repeat until free.

I have an old Ideal and I believe it is wired for 150A (3x50A breakers on the panel, which is not cool and is being replaced in my current refit). Shaefer Marine now owns Ideal - they show a 150A breaker on their webpage HERE. Or you can get the BlueSea 150A one SHOWN HERE

Here's the Blue Sea wire size chart. Note, 12-feet run is a 24-feet circuit. Looks like you are right on the line of 0 and 2/0 for 3% loss. I know this stuff gets expensive, but 2/0 might be your best bet unless the price difference is high.

Good luck - and congrat's on your new boat.

Peter

 

[BrianG]

It's an older model CWM serial # G546. Still googling for the amp draw..

 

[mvweebles]

It's an older model CWM serial # G546. Still googling for the amp draw..

Send ideal an email. Listed on the Schaefer marine website link I sent in previous message. Eliminate guesswork. FYI - my Ideal is 50 years old.

 

[Comodave]

Send ideal an email. Listed on the Schaefer marine website link I sent in previous message. Eliminate guesswork. FYI - my Ideal is 50 years old.

I just looked at their website. They said they had lots of wiring diagrams but only list the most popular ones. In their wiring diagram it shows what size wiring to use for a given distance. I agree, email them and ask for the wiring diagram for your model. Good luck.

 

[FF]

Small boat , small light anchor , no big current draw even with chain.

IDEAL made great gear , put it on.

IF in use the wires to it get hot , install a bigger size.

 

[BrianG]

Small boat , small light anchor , no big current draw even with chain.

IDEAL made great gear , put it on.

IF in use the wires to it get hot , install a bigger size.

Wow. Do you know me? You seem to know my typical M.O. ("if it's not on fire or exploding it's probably okay...")

 

[FF]

"Wow. Do you know me? You seem to know my typical M.O. ("if it's not on fire or exploding it's probably okay...")"


Not yet, but I know overthinking maybe a boat hobby , as is bestitis , but it seems to keep folks from cruising , "till everything is perfect"!!

 

[kchace]

Oh come on, that is too simple of an answer.
If you have an electronic controlled engine.... it will shut down when you slow the engine.....
Been there done that. Now, if you have a separate starting battery and the one could parallel the batteries..... but, get the batteries replaced ASAP

I don't agree. We don't even know what he has for batteries or the draw of the windlass.

 

[OldDan1943]

I think you guys are stuck in bigger boat thinking.

Ah yup, mine is 4ft longer.... I had space begging for a 3rd house battery.
IF you cannot find a reasonable space for another battery, consider a larger alternator. Advantage.... more juice at lower RPM.
If you have a generator, start it and hope the gen/battery charger will keep the batteries full enough to accomplish the task.
Of course, there is another option..... when in doubt.... parallel the house and start battery.... Better to draw down all the batteries than to have the main engine quit at a 'bad time'.

 

[BrianG]

I don't agree. We don't even know what he has for batteries or the draw of the windlass.

It's just a simple fishing trawler. 28hp diesel, non electronic motor, so that being the case, I don't see how taxing the batteries would shut me down. I will try and get some specifics from Schaffer Marine on Monday. I'm guessing I have a 50 amp alternator. Or does that sound too generous for 28hp diesel.

 

[OldDan1943]

It's just a simple fishing trawler. 28hp diesel, non electronic motor, so that being the case, I don't see how taxing the batteries would shut me down. I will try and get some specifics from Schaffer Marine on Monday. I'm guessing I have a 50 amp alternator. Or does that sound too generous for 28hp diesel.

Brian, no electronics on the engine? You are 'home free'. I cant think of a reason the main engine will shut down on low voltage.
Now concentrate on additional power to the house/windless.
Check on the amperage of the alternator and battery charge. You do have a generator on board? What is the size of the battery supplying power to the windless?
You do have a 'house/start' parallel switch?
What is the amperage draw of the windless?
The solution may be easier than we realize.

 

[BrianG]

I will contact Ideal/Schaeffer for windlass specs. Dont know my amp draw.. Will try and look it up or measure w/ Multimeter. No genset but i have parallel switch

 

[Caballero II]

Brian,

Welcome. Glad to see another Santa Barbareno on the Forum. Most of the Channel Island anchorages drop off fairly deeply, but you should be able to anchor in 30' or even less, especially in the boat of that size.

Another problem you'll run into though, if you don't already know, is the need for a stern anchor in most of the front side (north) Santa Cruz Island anchorages. They're just a little too popular and get a lot of boats, requiring anchors bow and stern to keep you from swinging freely.

Hope to meet you.

 

[rgano]

Getting close to pulling the trigger on a nice little trawler. Passed survey today. Boat has manual windlass. Boat Weighed in at 11,000 lbs on the hoist. I have a older but nice Ideal windlass in the garage. Should I go with the electric Ideal if the sale pushes through? Boat is for channel islands CA use. If I go electric do I have to add a third battery? it's about a 12' run from the batteries to the windlass. Presumably a #2 gauge 12v wire.

The run from my batteries to the windlass is every bit as far as yours, and all is well.

 

[O C Diver]

I will contact Ideal/Schaeffer for windlass specs. Dont know my amp draw.. Will try and look it up or measure w/ Multimeter. No genset but i have parallel switch

If Ideal can't give you the amp draw, the simple solution is to get a friend, a ring clamp DC amp meter and run a few load tests (with the engine running) to determine actual amp draw in typical anchor hauling situations. It needs to be a DC capable meter clamped around the windlass power cable. Final test might be a partial retrieval with the engine off to see amp draw under that situation. Have your friend either document the information or shoot a video. Amps and run time is what you're after.

Ted

 

[boathealer]

"Wow. Do you know me? You seem to know my typical M.O. ("if it's not on fire or exploding it's probably okay...")"


Not yet, but I know overthinking maybe a boat hobby , as is bestitis , but it seems to keep folks from cruising , "till everything is perfect"!!

"Perfect is the enemy of good."

 

[mvweebles]

If Ideal can't give you the amp draw, the simple solution is to get a friend, a ring clamp DC amp meter and run a few load tests (with the engine running) to determine actual amp draw in typical anchor hauling situations. It needs to be a DC capable meter clamped around the windlass power cable. Final test might be a partial retrieval with the engine off to see amp draw under that situation. Have your friend either document the information or shoot a video. Amps and run time is what you're after.

Ted

Ideal has a 150 surface mount breaker listed on their website. It's the only breaker they list. I know, possible it's over or undersized, but it's 90%+ likely that's the right size.

We are over thinking this

Peter.