Picking a boat for overnights and long distance cruising (ICW, Great Loop)

[rsn48]

Most any boatyard can get and install an I-O in under a week

Imagine some one laughing very hard, with some knee slapping.... good one. I wish for me that were true.

The long journey for me. First when I brought my boat in for refit with no plans for repower I knew I was screwed when some guy working at the refit joint said: "I've read about this type of leg but I've never actually seen one!" This old Merc leg was massive. So I had the leg and engine inspected (taken apart) and the report was - better repower, you will have a world of problems if you don't. After a good cry and several visits to my psychotherapist, I agreed.

So the process of repowering for me was something like this. First after a couple of visits from the repowering guys (not the refit guys), it was decided to glass in the leg hole ......... (add here the proper boat term for this hole). Glassing in was better than trying to use some bracket (add here the proper term for this bracket) so I elected to reglass the area.

So the old leg was removed and engine taken out, this over a couple of days. The transom was reglassed with one soft spot dug out and epoxied. This taking a couple of days. Then the area around the engine prepped, cleaned, painted (glass over wood hull). This took a day or two.

I originally was going to go with Volvo but they dicked me around so much, I went with Mercury and I'm so glad I did. Volvo is still using a marinized auto engine, Mercury is not, the new Merc engines are designed for the marine environment, Volvo's are not.

Then there was the discussion, struggle, researched decision to go with a Bravo 2 drive instead of a Bravo 3. Then the quotes, the first one for the Merc engine seemed decent and I was going to go with them until I discovered the engine was a re-manufacture (marinized auto engine). This pissed me off as it was presented as a new Merc engine. So I went to the next place who got me a quote on the new power plant.

The new leg was attached, then the engine placed in the EC only to find the wooden stringers were a problem by roughly a half an inch. So after several in's and out's with the engine getting the height right, the area was prepped and ready, almost. Since a stringer(s) were compromised, brackets were made to maintain the strength integrity of the stringers. These brackets were made locally as they were custom.

And now in the next day or two, the new engine will be bedded finally. Then comes all the electrical, electronic, and steering hook ups, etc.

Part of the reason I so readily agreed to replacing the engine and leg was simple. On my older boat with an older engine, every time I went out I wondered about the integrity of the engine. I was always listening to the sound of the engine. On its last cruise, I heard a very subtle stumble in the sound, no one else heard it and I started to wonder when the engine would crap out on me, and more importantly where would I be in what weather conditions when that happened.

The guy who bought me engine was a detail guy. He discovered researching the serial number the engine I had with the boat was a re-manufactured engine, dating from 1975. So the engine was probably rebuilt 10 - 20 years latter. So the boat is now on its third engine. With the new engine and joining C Tow, I won't lose as much sleep wondering about my power plant.

Oh, and a week...................... good one!!

 

[FF]

"Oh, and a week...................... good one!!"

Simple R&R is fast and easy a drive package swap is never.

A look in FL Mariner will locate remanufactured engines and out drives by the dozen.


Marine Engines | Inboard and I/O Engines | Jasper Marine

https://www.jasperengines.com/marine-engines

 

[jleonard]

"Oh, and a week...................... good one!!"

Simple R&R is fast and easy a drive package swap is never.

[/URL]

And while quick turnaround may be true in THEORY, the REALITY at least around where I boat is that marine mechanics are already booked for most of the summer. They are turning away work.
Finding time to work on an emergency may not be easy. A week can easily turn into 2 or 3 or 4.
Reality.

 

[Capitaine R]

"Oh, and a week...................... good one!!"

Simple R&R is fast and easy a drive package swap is never.

A look in FL Mariner will locate remanufactured engines and out drives by the dozen.


Marine Engines | Inboard and I/O Engines | Jasper Marine

https://www.jasperengines.com/marine-engines

There is a good reason why there are so many remanufactured I/O engine and out drive vendors available, business is good.

 

[ben2go]

In my youth, I could completely change a Mercruiser I/O, drive puck, and gimble housing in a day on some boats. The last time I did one, was 1997 or thereabouts on a fish n ski type boat. One could exchange an entire I/O for a rebuilt unit fairly cheap.

 

[Bellakins]

No recommendations for a specific boat, but I wouldn't attempt the Caribbean. We lived on our sailboat in the Caribbean for 3 years, and it was great, but the boat was also built for handling all sea conditions. Trawlers handle things differently and typically don't have the range that sailboats have. We were in the BVIs and there was a trawler at our dock that the owner had paid to have shipped down there since they could only come down for a week or two at a time a couple of times a year. They came with a group and took off in weather we wouldn't go out in on our sailboat, got to Virgin Gorda and called the yacht manager we both used and asked him to come get the boat and ship it back home to SC. They couldn't take the motion of the boat in the seas, and they were mild compared to what it would have been on the open ocean rather than the waters of the Caribbean. The Bahamas are doable, and with a buddy boat is probably a good idea. East coast cruising, either on the ICW or in and out up the coast, is fine.

 

[jeffnick]

https://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2019/07/boat-for-loop.html

 

[LateStarter]

Didn't mean to rain on a parade with my earlier post... so thought may be useful to offer an example of what I think might work better than the three earlier candidates.

I was about to suggest you check out an early Mainship 34, made during the years '78-'88 (approx).... not as a suggestion to buy, necessarily, but as a way to consider features that might better suit long distances (single diesel), variable weather (upper and lower helm), and single-handing (decent side decks), later models had a transom door, etc.

But then I noticed your "steps instead of ladders" -- which I fully understand and agree with -- and that influenced our last purchase decision, too!

So my next thought would be a Mainship 350/390, I think starting from approx 1997 or so. This model actually incorporates many of the suggestions owners of the original 34s fed back to the builder: wider beam, even wider (and protected) side decks, side door at the helm, stairs to the flybridge, etc. Again, I'm not necessarily recommending that as the boat to buy, but rather a boat to study to learn about useful features.

FWIW, we started with an '87 34 Mk III. Great boat, and I would even consider owning another today. But I think I'd see about maybe fabricating some kind of replacement stair system (circular?) to solve the ladder.

-Chris

Thanks. I’ look into the 350/390. Wish you good sailing

 

[Stu-L]

I will give you my 2 cents. I do a lot of single handed boating. I have a 34 ft Californian.
Things that make it easy for me:
1. Walk arounds port and starboard make it easier to get to bow.
2. Down Helm and a side door make it easier to dock and go out to get forward and aft.
3. Upper helm on the fly bridge.
4. Naturally aspirated Diesel instead of gas easier to maintain.
5. Twins
6. No out drives - straight shafts with props.
7. Direct drive no V-Drive.

 

[seadragonbahamas]

A gas inboard NOOOO! NOT for a cruiser. Maintenance hogg and gas with a inside engine is a bomb. If you want fast and gas get a twinn outboard 4 cycle motors and a light weight, possibly a twinn hull cruiser.

If you want a distance cruiser a single diesel naturally aspirated will give you 7 knots while sipping fuel at 2 gph. At low rpms they require very little maintenance. Maybe an impeller, belt, or heat exchanger cleaning plus oil and filter changes.

Best match would be a 32 or 34 foot american tug type or similar vessel or even an old 1970s Willard Fales 32. If you want character have a look at the Lord Nelson 37 tug yacht, old enough to find well used at a reasonable price. A displacement diesel will give you the least problems

Stay away from inside gas engines , you will live longer. -Captain Dan-

 

[Monk36]

Have you looked at diesel powered trawlers?
So much more affordable to run, easy to dock with one engine and a thruster. Yes, you will move at the speed of a turtle, but what's the hurry?

Much bang for your buck, more living area, cheap to operate and easy to handle.
Just saying.... might want to look at a Monk, Island Gypsy, Hatteras or even Nordic Tug.
Good luck

 

[jeffnick]

I'm 75. Here's my take:
Diesels are not cheaper to maintain.
Diesel stinks forever.
Anyone can fix a gasser.
My gasser boat gets 3 mpg at 7mph - but it can do almost 30 mph.
You'd need to keep a boat 40 years to take advantage of the extra cost of a diesel...at 74 y/o I'm guessing that ain't gonna happen for the OP.
I had dreams of crossing oceans when I was in my 20's and found out I didn't really want to cross oceans after buying a boat that could.
I've sailed to the Caribbean, the Bahamas are far superior to a boater but maybe not to a landlubber.
You don't need an ocean crossing boat to get to the Bahamas - I did it in an 18 outboard.
Straight inboards are a nightmare in shallow water. Outboards and sterndrives can survive well in 18" of water.
You can work on outboards and sterndrives in a slip - no need to haul for a prop change.
I'd had walkarounds because I single hand. I found it's easier to dash thru the boat to the stern than to tiptoe along a narrow walkway.
I insisted on a flybridge - but found that the complicated electronics and mechanics up there did not come close to their worth - you can't dock a boat single handed from the flybridge and hitting the head or grabing a beer from the fridge is a monumental task.
The cheaper the boat the easier it is to dock - no need for 'thrusters' if you don't mind nudging a piling to tie up and get ashore.

 

[grandbanksbayfield]

Single Person Cruising?

We have a Grand Banks 32 and love it. My wife is an ardent cruiser, but I can handle this boat easily alone because all of it is on one level, except the fly bridge with the second steering station. Easy to maneuver, plenty comfortable, and very roomy for a single person. Not sure about offshore cruising, yet we do it here in the Great Lakes. Beam seas are tough in this boat, but we pick our days.

 

[JOY-SEA]

You will never realize what many have stated unless U live it
Don't buy a boat cause the cabin is pretty , leather seating .
200 gallons @ $ 4.00 a gallon , every few hundred miles ,
YOU WILL CRY AT FUEL FILL UPS
Try 2 buy smart ,
Finding repair techs that want too work on gas engines is challenging , Most mechanics want to work on diesels or OB , I was speaking with a mechanic working on a trawler , Diesels , He said he does not accept gas jobs, something too do with insurance , ?
Keep away form stern drives ( IO's )
Must considere access too everything on boat , generator, holding tanks, gas tanks, engine room , You will have repairs , somebody has too get too that piece of equipment
Example if gas tank has too come out floor has too be cut out or waist holding tank sprang a leak , floor has too be cut ( on some boats )
In my case a engine has too come out too get too generator ,
I did not buy smart , I bought cause wife loved cabin ,
$ .75 cent more a gallon , Gas
You want too make the journey , purchase a economical fuel usage boat
Self contained cooling is best , NO RAW WATER COOLED
Gas engines , mfg install cause lot cheaper then diesel
Boats are a beautiful thing , twin gas engines will burn fuel
Many buy big boats that go no were, sit at docks , many live on boats not interested in the journey .
Doing the journey , got too be frugal in your thinking
I met a man , wanted that dream , Retired , sold the house wanted too travel with wife , purchased a 50 footer , Sail
After one year wife hated the boat, went back too Connecticut living with family , guy is living his dream by himself in the Keys

GOOD LUCK with your dream
All the boats mentioned are lovely , but are they smart for your travels
Trawler or sail is the way too go , I am 72 still wanting that journey ,

 

[rsn48]

I have posted this link several times here, probably will another hundred times. A gas explosion is bad, very bad, but also not that common. If you really don't believe gas is safe, don't drive your car or SUV. The link below is in two parts and the author though now passed away was qualified to write the blog.

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm

 

[BandB]

I have posted this link several times here, probably will another hundred times. A gas explosion is bad, very bad, but also not that common. If you really don't believe gas is safe, don't drive your car or SUV. The link below is in two parts and the author though now passed away was qualified to write the blog.

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm

I have noted as well that there are hundreds of thousands of gas boats. Go to any lake and on most lakes gas is all you'll see. Then go to the coast and look at all the smaller boats and at the center consoles. More gas boats than diesel. Lots more gas cars than diesel.

 

[ssobol]

One thing to consider is where you are going to get whatever fuel your boat uses. In a number of places gas is readily available but diesel is not. If you have to go considerably out of your way (at 7 knots) just to refuel, you're boat might not get used as much as you expect.

 

[jleonard]

One thing to consider is where you are going to get whatever fuel your boat uses. In a number of places gas is readily available but diesel is not. If you have to go considerably out of your way (at 7 knots) just to refuel, you're boat might not get used as much as you expect.

In 25 years of diesel boating I have never had a problem finding fuel.

 

[BandB]

In 25 years of diesel boating I have never had a problem finding fuel.

I haven't either on coasts or navigable rivers. Now, on Lake Norman, you couldn't find it, but then no one had a diesel powered boat so it worked out fine.

 

[Bryant]

Mercruisers

I have narrowed the choice of a boat down. I am a newbie to boating, a healthy & reasonably fit 74 and will be mostly single handling the boat.
My choices are From the following:

1990 Carved 38 with 454 closed system mercruisers

1998 Sea Day Sundance 330 with 5.7L closed system mercruisers

1987 Tollycraft 34 Sundeck Crusader 350 closed system

Initially, I will be using the boat in the Chesapeake Bay traveling to the various islands. As I become more comfortable and confident with my skills I will expand my cruising to the East coast up to New England and down the ICW to Florida. After a couple of years I would like to travel the Caribbean, and maybe venture to Cuba.

Any advice welcome.

I would avoid anything with an I/O. It’s the worst system ever designed. If you aren’t going to get an inboard diesel then look at the Rossborough or CDory 25 or TomCat. 4 stroke outboard is the way to go if you don’t go diesel.
You will thank me.

 

[BandB]

I would avoid anything with an I/O. It’s the worst system ever designed. If you aren’t going to get an inboard diesel then look at the Rossborough or CDory 25 or TomCat. 4 stroke outboard is the way to go if you don’t go diesel.
You will thank me.

I/O's have their place. In my opinion, it's on fresh water lakes. I owned 5 boats while living in NC and all were I/O's. Had no real problems but never kept one beyond 8 years. Today it's a shrinking market segment because of the larger outboards, but there are still a lot sold for lake usage. Inboards are less practical for lakes due to the inability to raise them and the drafts. Only ski boats use inboards until you get to larger boats.

Now, looking at the size boats and use the OP is looking at, I'd prefer inboards. If I bought an I/O it would be with the understanding I likely would replace an outdrive some time, but that's relatively simple to get done.

 

[Bryant]

I/Os

99% of my boating is saltwater. I can see an I/O on a lake, under certain circumstances but the original question posed dealt with a boat suitable for long distance cruising, Great Loop, ICW etc and that was what my comment was directed towards. Everyone I know, myself included, that has tried to use an I/O in saltwater for extended periods of time have suffered the tortures of the dammed. Once the engine starts giving problems, they never run properly again. It’s just one thing after another. And keeping an outdrive with the rubber bellows immersed in saltwater for long periods of time is trouble just waiting to happen.
I had a Honda 4 stroke on my smaller boat for 19 years. It was well maintained but nothing out of the ordinary. When it finally needed several system replacements I opted to repower. Three days later I was back in the water. The old motor even retained significant trade in value. None of this is true about I/Os.
Personally, I would never own another I/O unless it was brand new, freshwater use and I was only going to keep the boat 5 years. This is not the use that the original question posed. Hence my advice to go diesel or 4 stroke outboard.

 

[Mark P]

Well, I think one of the things that's missed is that maintenance is a huge issue for all engines - we should not poo-pooh engines and set ups. I was at MarineMax in Sarasota a few weeks ago and saw dude with twin 300 HP Verrado outboards on a rack, with one of them making a "blown piston" kind of sound when running on a garden hose set up. Probably due to lack of maintenance, maybe an old impeller failed and at 5500 RPMs at near WOT and a little short on water, and open your wallet quite large. They are about $36K plus install. So I think all engine set ups work in both salt and fresh water, just takes maintenance.

 

[Bryant]

I/O

I agree maintenance is all important. The key word that you used, however, is “Verado” (Mercury). Those engines are notorious.
A Honda, Yamaha, Nissan or Tohatsu 4 stroke, properly maintained will provide years of trouble free service. Of course there is always a bad apple in any lot but if you go with one that I mentioned, odds are, you will be fine.

 

[Benthic2]

Since your travels are going to be mostly local at first, have you considred buying a "starter" boat ? A little smaller than those you mentioned but less expensive, and easier to handle. Use that boat to learn navigation, weather, seamanship and so on... and then graduate to your New England to Florida cruiser. You will find things that you love and hate about your first boat and will be able to make a better decision as you move up in size. If you buy an older boat and maintain it well you can probably sell it for close to what you paid for it.

Something like these:
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/trojan-8-6-meter-mid-cabin-2952248/?refSource=standard listing

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/carver-2667-3544092/?refSource=standard listing

 

[Mark P]

I agree. But all those engines will fail without maintenance. My theory is that some folks by too much boat, car, house or you name it and then can't afford maintenance. Those outboards with high horse power on a small physical box turn at very high rpms and need very professional maintenance. There is no magic here horsepower is math - rpms x torque. The I/Os with s bigger plant develop horsepower at lower rpms but they have their maintenance issues. Ok rant is over. ?

 

[OldDan1943]

Since your travels are going to be mostly local at first, have you considred buying a "starter" boat ? A little smaller than those you mentioned but less expensive, and easier to handle. Use that boat to learn navigation, weather, seamanship and so on... and then graduate to your New England to Florida cruiser. You will find things that you love and hate about your first boat and will be able to make a better decision as you move up in size. If you buy an older boat and maintain it well you can probably sell it for close to what you paid for it.

Something like these:
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/trojan-8-6-meter-mid-cabin-2952248/?refSource=standard listing

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/carver-2667-3544092/?refSource=standard listing

Why take on the problems of I/Os?

 

[Benthic2]

Why take on the problem of outdrives.

Because if you want to get into a low cost 25-30 foot boat, they will be very common. If you are only going to own it for a year or two, I think its a manageable risk.

My point was not to buy an outdrive. It was to buy a boat to learn on. There's no sense paying for the capability to get to Cuba if he is just going to be putting around close to home for a few years. It will save him money, flatten out the learning curve a bit, and help him realize what features are important to him.

 

[Bryant]

I/O

Benthic2 makes a good point.
Stay away from Outdrives. Try a smaller boat.
Look at what you want to do then match that with a boat suitable for that mission. Based on what you said you want to do, a Mainship or Albin would be a good choice or as I said before, a C Dory or Rossborough with 4 stroke outboards, a Willard or Grand Banks or a Camino Troll 30 would all be good choices.
Trust me, for what you want to do, stay away from all I/Os and V-drives and basically any configuration of an inboard gas engine.

 

[ssobol]

If you run your 4-stoke gas outboard boat at "trawler" speeds you will get comparable MPG to a diesel trawler. The catch is that most outboard powered boats are meant to go a lot faster than that and the temptation is usually too great not to take advantage of it. If you look at a Nimble Nomad or similar boat, they are powered with a fairly small outboard and are only designed for "trawler" speeds.

Another advantage of O/B power is that interior space on the boat is not taken up with an engine or two. This gives you more interior space which may mean you can get away with a smaller boat overall.

I have an O/B powered boat. My wife says we should get a bigger boat. However, after watching YouTube videos about doing maintenance on an inboard engine I'm loath to give up the ease of maintenance that my O/B allows.