Pilots
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
OldDan1943
Guru
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- 10,663
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- USA
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- Kinja
- Vessel Make
- American Tug 34 #116 2008
You are my new best friend. Always wanted to fly a sub.
If by some random chance I become a billionaire, I'm buying one of these and giving you a call.
dont forget the crew of 120
Codger2
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,691
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- Circuit Breaker
- Vessel Make
- 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
I'd almost forgot about that! Started out on the aux tanks with a timer set for 45 minutes. The engines coughed over Banning, CA and I noticed the timer had gone to zero but I didn't hear the ding. Switched to main tanks and the engines roared to life. The timer was almost exactly like an old oven timer and was hard to hear with both engines running. You're absolutely correct, the plane did have some fuel management faults!
Rich K
Member
Fletcher 500
“How much, rough est., does a 10 year old single engine plane similar to as shown in post 47 cost, and what is the rough annual maint, upkeep, storage, etc to keep it per year?
Single engine aircraft are like Trawlers, there are many different models, and lots of differences that make up the cost. Many aircraft are like mine, older in years, but still viable and airworthy due to government aircraft directives, and required annual inspections. If taken care of, they will still be flying for many years to come.
My plane is a 1969 Piper Cherokee, and is currently for sale for $29,750. A ten year model of the same would be substantially more in initial cost depending on condition.
Annual inspection is dependent on whether one does an owner assisted annual, which can be a savings of hundreds of dollars, or just drops it off at and gives the maintenance facility orders to do” whatever it needs to do”, which can get very expensive. My owner assisted inspections, where I open the plane up, do most of the work, and close under the watchful gaze of the inspector, is a lot less, usually between $500 and $1000, depending what needs to be done, including what, if any FAA edict has come down in the last year. I do have years of USAF maintenance experience, and later work experience working for a very large aircraft company, and that helps. I enjoy working on my own aircraft, and/or boat, and get a lot of satisfaction out of the work. Also get to know all the systems better, which makes me more confident.
Normal maintenance like tires, brakes, shocks, lubrications and oil changes, and many things that are considered preventive maintenance, can be performed by the private pilot owner, and is spelled out in the FARs, leaving structure, and complex portions of maintenance to the certified mechanic. Depending if the plane is a simple aircraft taking 6 to 8 hours for an annual, or a complex aircraft taking 20 to 30 hours to complete, many of the tasks done at annual, can be done by the aircraft owner, or done during an owner assisted annual saving quite a substantial amount.
Storage depends on where you keep your plane. Like a fine boat, it depends on where the marina is located, with an airplane, it depends on where you want to keep it as well. Here in Washington, if you keep your plane at Boeing Field in Seattle, everything is expensive, and a hanger is almost prohibitive. I prefer smaller airport, where keeping it in the open is about $65/mo, an open “T” hanger for $200/mo, and a closed hanger which has lots of storage space for $235 a month, which I have for my aircraft.
In short, I usually set aside about $10/hr for every hour of flight time, to pay for maintenance, and the inevitable engine overhaul (suggested 2000 hr TBO), and that seems to be enough for me. I have owned my present aircraft for 10 years.
It’s kind of like owning a boat. If you keep on top of everything, it doesn’t seem to be too bad. Just get to it early, and don’t neglect what you need to do to keep it maintained, before a small item gets out of hand.
For me, and going into retirement, I don’t mind the work. It all has its rewards, as when lounging on the deck in the evening on Echo Bay on Sucia Island, or at Friday Harbor or Rosareo watching the other boats come and go.
My father send me a letter once while I was in the Air Force in Germany. My family was at Rosareo in the San Jaun Islands, and he was sitting on his 33’ Chris Craft and commented on the serenity of the scene. People walking on the dock to go to the resort, and that he noticed a sailboat moving towards the gas dock, “obviously, going there to get some “air” for their sails.” I could tell that he was content at that time.
Rich K
South Puget Sound, WA
“How much, rough est., does a 10 year old single engine plane similar to as shown in post 47 cost, and what is the rough annual maint, upkeep, storage, etc to keep it per year?
Single engine aircraft are like Trawlers, there are many different models, and lots of differences that make up the cost. Many aircraft are like mine, older in years, but still viable and airworthy due to government aircraft directives, and required annual inspections. If taken care of, they will still be flying for many years to come.
My plane is a 1969 Piper Cherokee, and is currently for sale for $29,750. A ten year model of the same would be substantially more in initial cost depending on condition.
Annual inspection is dependent on whether one does an owner assisted annual, which can be a savings of hundreds of dollars, or just drops it off at and gives the maintenance facility orders to do” whatever it needs to do”, which can get very expensive. My owner assisted inspections, where I open the plane up, do most of the work, and close under the watchful gaze of the inspector, is a lot less, usually between $500 and $1000, depending what needs to be done, including what, if any FAA edict has come down in the last year. I do have years of USAF maintenance experience, and later work experience working for a very large aircraft company, and that helps. I enjoy working on my own aircraft, and/or boat, and get a lot of satisfaction out of the work. Also get to know all the systems better, which makes me more confident.
Normal maintenance like tires, brakes, shocks, lubrications and oil changes, and many things that are considered preventive maintenance, can be performed by the private pilot owner, and is spelled out in the FARs, leaving structure, and complex portions of maintenance to the certified mechanic. Depending if the plane is a simple aircraft taking 6 to 8 hours for an annual, or a complex aircraft taking 20 to 30 hours to complete, many of the tasks done at annual, can be done by the aircraft owner, or done during an owner assisted annual saving quite a substantial amount.
Storage depends on where you keep your plane. Like a fine boat, it depends on where the marina is located, with an airplane, it depends on where you want to keep it as well. Here in Washington, if you keep your plane at Boeing Field in Seattle, everything is expensive, and a hanger is almost prohibitive. I prefer smaller airport, where keeping it in the open is about $65/mo, an open “T” hanger for $200/mo, and a closed hanger which has lots of storage space for $235 a month, which I have for my aircraft.
In short, I usually set aside about $10/hr for every hour of flight time, to pay for maintenance, and the inevitable engine overhaul (suggested 2000 hr TBO), and that seems to be enough for me. I have owned my present aircraft for 10 years.
It’s kind of like owning a boat. If you keep on top of everything, it doesn’t seem to be too bad. Just get to it early, and don’t neglect what you need to do to keep it maintained, before a small item gets out of hand.
For me, and going into retirement, I don’t mind the work. It all has its rewards, as when lounging on the deck in the evening on Echo Bay on Sucia Island, or at Friday Harbor or Rosareo watching the other boats come and go.
My father send me a letter once while I was in the Air Force in Germany. My family was at Rosareo in the San Jaun Islands, and he was sitting on his 33’ Chris Craft and commented on the serenity of the scene. People walking on the dock to go to the resort, and that he noticed a sailboat moving towards the gas dock, “obviously, going there to get some “air” for their sails.”
I could tell that he was content at that time. Rich K
South Puget Sound, WA
markpierce
Master and Commander
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
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- 12,557
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Carquinez Coot
- Vessel Make
- penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Aaliyah. (Singer, Dancer, Actor & Model) ...
Audie Murphy. 20 June 1925.
Buddy Holly. 07 September 1936.
Ritchie Valens. (Singer, Songwriter) ...
Subhas Chandra Bose. 23 January 1897.
Ricky Nelson. (Musician) ...
Otis Redding. 09 September 1941.
Jim Croce. (Singer, Musician)
... and those are just a partial list of famous people dying in small-plane accidents.
Famous people who died in aviation accidents
You guys are the survivors!
Audie Murphy. 20 June 1925.
Buddy Holly. 07 September 1936.
Ritchie Valens. (Singer, Songwriter) ...
Subhas Chandra Bose. 23 January 1897.
Ricky Nelson. (Musician) ...
Otis Redding. 09 September 1941.
Jim Croce. (Singer, Musician)
... and those are just a partial list of famous people dying in small-plane accidents.
Famous people who died in aviation accidents
You guys are the survivors!
melissar
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2018
- Messages
- 88
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Breeze
- Vessel Make
- Grand Banks 36
CFII here and husband's office is the left seat of an A320.
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FoxtrotCharlie
Guru
Soloed in college in a 150- but then grad school, job, marriage, life... got in the way. I was just commenting to my wife last week that it seemed there were a lot of former/current pilots on this forum. But I do have a close friend with over 8,000 hrs and a Cessna 210 that flies me lots of places ie to look at boats
And my deceased father-in-law, a dentist, began flying when he was 15 and his last two planes were Cessna 310's, Q&R - but I think his proudest few hours were in the right seat of a shiny Ford Tri-Motor.
And my deceased father-in-law, a dentist, began flying when he was 15 and his last two planes were Cessna 310's, Q&R - but I think his proudest few hours were in the right seat of a shiny Ford Tri-Motor.CanadianBoater
Veteran Member
Owners / Pilots seem to like them a lot. While I have seen a few, never flown one myself. My only hours in twins is limited to a Chieftain, Cheyenne, Twin Otter, and Seneca. Most of my fixed wing time is in a 182, 185, and Beaver. So not a ton of hours in twins.
HopCar
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,366
- Vessel Name
- Possum
- Vessel Make
- Ellis 28
There was a group here in Miami that had several Sky Masters. It was called Brothers to the Rescue. They would fly down toward Cuba to spot the rafts trying to get to the USA. They would then direct the Coast Guard or near by boats to pick them up.
I once met the fellow who started it and I asked him why the Sky Master. He said they wanted twins for flying over water and it was easier to get pilots trained for the Sky Master than conventional twins.
Unfortunately the Sky Master is no match for a Mig 29. Castro shot down two of them in international air space.
I once met the fellow who started it and I asked him why the Sky Master. He said they wanted twins for flying over water and it was easier to get pilots trained for the Sky Master than conventional twins.
Unfortunately the Sky Master is no match for a Mig 29. Castro shot down two of them in international air space.
AlaskaProf
Guru
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2016
- Messages
- 2,303
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- US of A
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- boatless, ex: Seeadler
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- RAWSON 41
PPSEL, glider, instrument
ATCS, 6 facility ratings: ZDV, ZLC, SLC, ASE, PUB, SEA.
Designated examiner, tower and weather observer
USPA class B parachutist
Professor of Aviation Technology
Just sold my fourth (and last) airplane.
ATCS, 6 facility ratings: ZDV, ZLC, SLC, ASE, PUB, SEA.
Designated examiner, tower and weather observer
USPA class B parachutist
Professor of Aviation Technology
Just sold my fourth (and last) airplane.
Nomad Willy
Guru
I had five ultralights and several hang gliders.
2000hrs UL
200hrs HG
Ultralights were;
Easy Riser
Pterodactyl #1
Pterodactyl #2
Kasper Wing
Eipper Quicksilver 15hp weight shift
The Lazair was a twin 9hp (tractor .. engines close in) w a 36’ wing span. Aluminum “D section” leading edge spar .. tapered.
Both “Dactyl’s” were Cuyuna (snowmobile) powered. #2 had a Rotax 2.5-1 gear drive and a four blade prop adapted. 1400ft min climb at 40mph. About 45 degrees AOA.
Yes I did the “vertical mush” many times w the K wing. Wiltold Kasper was a genius and flying the K wing was proof. Both the K Wing and the Lazair were capable of clean flight below 20mph, ground effect not required.
The aviation/boating connection is probably small compared to motorcycles and boating.
2000hrs UL
200hrs HG
Ultralights were;
Easy Riser
Pterodactyl #1
Pterodactyl #2
Kasper Wing
Eipper Quicksilver 15hp weight shift
The Lazair was a twin 9hp (tractor .. engines close in) w a 36’ wing span. Aluminum “D section” leading edge spar .. tapered.
Both “Dactyl’s” were Cuyuna (snowmobile) powered. #2 had a Rotax 2.5-1 gear drive and a four blade prop adapted. 1400ft min climb at 40mph. About 45 degrees AOA.
Yes I did the “vertical mush” many times w the K wing. Wiltold Kasper was a genius and flying the K wing was proof. Both the K Wing and the Lazair were capable of clean flight below 20mph, ground effect not required.
The aviation/boating connection is probably small compared to motorcycles and boating.
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HopCar
Guru
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- Aug 20, 2011
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- 5,366
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- Ellis 28
I saw a Kasper Wing do that mush thing at Oshkosh one time. That’s just weird. No wing should be able to do that.
I flew a Dactyl once, you’re right, scary climb rate. Didn’t want to come down either. Could have used some flaps or spoilers.
Lots of time on Quicks with 15 hp Yamaha engines. Most of it on floats.
Landlubber
Member
Private Pilot, single engine, land. Took 5 years to get my ticket...numerous periods of short term unemployment delayed me. Met my wife at about the same time...she has absolutely no interest in flying. Although I love flying and airplanes, (look up whenever I hear one!), we both look forward to our trawler lifestyle. Also the money spent on a nice plane would go much farther on nice boat!
Got my PPL in 1974. Took my brother for a ride and now he’s a 787 Captain.
CFII, taught at tOSU for a few years. Own a Bonanza which we use to go between our landlocked central Ohio home and our home in Punta Gorda where we keep our boat.
Don’t know how we would get by without it.
Mike
CFII, taught at tOSU for a few years. Own a Bonanza which we use to go between our landlocked central Ohio home and our home in Punta Gorda where we keep our boat.
Don’t know how we would get by without it.
Mike
Jetstream
Senior Member
I was going to say Mixmaster was what we called them to. There are a few aeroplanes I've seen people get into trouble with the fuel systems. The different models of the Baron's and particularly Queen Airs comes to mind. Many years ago I new some guys who killed themselves in an old Queen Air I used to fly when they mismanaged the fuel system thinking it was the same as a different model. The old 402's, 402A's and B's where also a trap if you used fuel out of the aux's to early it would just fill the mains (tips) and overflow out the vents.
HopCar
Guru
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- 5,366
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- Possum
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- Ellis 28
[STRIKE][/STRIKE]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shootdown_of_Brothers_to_the_Rescue_aircraft
Jose Basulto is the fellow I met. He was flying the third plane that escaped.
I met him at the opening to the public of the Nike Missle base in Everglades National Park.
I had no idea that happened! Is there a link somewhere that describes the incidents ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_shootdown_of_Brothers_to_the_Rescue_aircraft
Jose Basulto is the fellow I met. He was flying the third plane that escaped.
I met him at the opening to the public of the Nike Missle base in Everglades National Park.
foreverunderway
Senior Member
I must admit, like the pilots of commercial aircraft I used to travel on, to having a limited take on the word 'pilot'. I opened the thread thinking it was about harbor pilots, this being a boating forum and all.
When I was traveling a lot as a delivery captain, I always flew using my title; captain. This usually got me an invite to the flight deck (way before the current security rules), as the flight crew just automatically assumed I was an aircraft pilot. Upon discovering otherwise, their interest in my profession usually kept the conversation going for the duration of the flight. Ah, those were the days!
When I was traveling a lot as a delivery captain, I always flew using my title; captain. This usually got me an invite to the flight deck (way before the current security rules), as the flight crew just automatically assumed I was an aircraft pilot. Upon discovering otherwise, their interest in my profession usually kept the conversation going for the duration of the flight. Ah, those were the days!
I've never flown an airplane that someone wasn't paying me to do it. First the Marines and then the airlines. It was a good life up until bankruptcy and the theft of our pension. We have had to reduce our expectations of retirement significantly. I've got five years to retirement. Already I am counting down how many recurrent sessions I have left. Then, I am out of here. The airline has beaten out most of my love of flying. They can have it.
Most of my sea experience is in sailing. I am mostly lurking and starting to educate myself before I get serious about shopping for a boat. The wife has the itch to do the Loop two or three times. I keep telling myself that it's so much cheaper to rent.
My plan is to only move in the daytime. Too many knuckleheads trying to run me over much less shallow water at night. My personal philosophy is to never get myself in a situation where I have to demonstrate my superior airmanship or seamanship.
Most of my sea experience is in sailing. I am mostly lurking and starting to educate myself before I get serious about shopping for a boat. The wife has the itch to do the Loop two or three times. I keep telling myself that it's so much cheaper to rent.
My plan is to only move in the daytime. Too many knuckleheads trying to run me over much less shallow water at night. My personal philosophy is to never get myself in a situation where I have to demonstrate my superior airmanship or seamanship.
Airstream345
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
- Messages
- 1,016
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- FORTITUDE
- Vessel Make
- Kadey Krogen 54-8
I've experienced an engine out in an Apache while flying IFR. My left leg would've had traded anything to have been in a Mixmaster. Fortunately it all ended well after an off-field landing. Any landing you can walk away from right?
That was 25+ years ago. Now I have a good story to tell and a whole lot more respect for Murphy.
I do miss flying from time to time, but boating more than fills up my need for fun, friends and adventure.
markpierce
Master and Commander
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Messages
- 12,557
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Carquinez Coot
- Vessel Make
- penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
My father gave up flying after his B-17 was shot down over Germany where he parachuted to prison camp.
stubones99
Guru
Skymasters - too heavy if you lose one engine
I was told that the Skymaster was too heavy to fly for long on one engine, and pretty much needed both to stay in the air.
My dad had one of the James Bond Piper Cherokee 140's and a Cessna 172 but my first wife didn't like small planes and that included Dad's planes...
I always wanted a Lake Buccaneer, but now would prefer an Icon A5, both are amphibious aircraft. I wonder how long it would take to do the loop in a Buccaneer?
I was told that the Skymaster was too heavy to fly for long on one engine, and pretty much needed both to stay in the air.
My dad had one of the James Bond Piper Cherokee 140's and a Cessna 172 but my first wife didn't like small planes and that included Dad's planes...
I always wanted a Lake Buccaneer, but now would prefer an Icon A5, both are amphibious aircraft. I wonder how long it would take to do the loop in a Buccaneer?
SeaStarDF50
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2016
- Messages
- 56
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- MV SeaStar
- Vessel Make
- 1969 DeFever-OBC 50' wood
We meet lots of pilot-boaters. I think there's appeal, comfort, and expertise that aligns for these personalities . My father-in-law taught in links, flew a Stinson, built a Glasair, and spent 25 years cruising in a DeFever. My husband soloed on his 16th birthday, flew Navy F/A18 Hornets, an assortment for Delta, plus more, and has 1940s Piper Cub and Stinson.
As the wife of a pilot, my confidence in him to keep us safe on the water in our DeFever is bolstered by his flying skills. I know that weather, radar gauges, radio, equipment, navigation, controls, systems, electrical, and so much more, including driving big, awkward vehicles, are all second nature to him.
As the wife of a pilot, my confidence in him to keep us safe on the water in our DeFever is bolstered by his flying skills. I know that weather, radar gauges, radio, equipment, navigation, controls, systems, electrical, and so much more, including driving big, awkward vehicles, are all second nature to him.
joeleone
Member
flying decisions more timely
ok like the other pilots out there. Flying decisions are very timely since the world is going by fairly quickly. Boating decisions have slowed down to 8 knots, plenty of time to make mistakes and correct them. Over the past 40 + years in both boating and flying I've seen many pilots transition to sail or power. Just what we do. For you pilots, Part 135, 121, CFI, DPE ( over 5,000 Check rides)DC6 my favorite of the aircraft I've flown. Retired 2 years ago, haven't been in a tin can since.
Boating is much more relaxing and you can walk around when you need to stretch.
ok like the other pilots out there. Flying decisions are very timely since the world is going by fairly quickly. Boating decisions have slowed down to 8 knots, plenty of time to make mistakes and correct them. Over the past 40 + years in both boating and flying I've seen many pilots transition to sail or power. Just what we do. For you pilots, Part 135, 121, CFI, DPE ( over 5,000 Check rides)DC6 my favorite of the aircraft I've flown. Retired 2 years ago, haven't been in a tin can since.
Boating is much more relaxing and you can walk around when you need to stretch.
Codger2
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,691
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- Circuit Breaker
- Vessel Make
- 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
That's news to me as the manual states that the plane has an excellent single engine service ceiling. Never tried it myself though. Refer to post #62 for single engine performance specs.
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ben2go
Guru
I was a pilot in training before my health grounded me. I was building time being an aircraft fairy pilot. I would deliver aircraft around the southeast mostly. Did some midwest trips and a few Bahama trips. My hopes was to be a bush pilot out west around the Rockies. In my down time I was the aircraft repair tech's third hand and a line service tech. I did a lot of trades stuff prior and have certs in industrial mechanics and auto mechanics. I was almost talked into becoming a tech or avionics repairman. I just didn't like the thoughts of going back to school. Should have done it.
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