Power Cats for cruising

[MurrayM]

Maybe you could give some examples of boats which come close to your concept. When I think 'catamaran' I think of the full width cruising type...isn't what you're describing more of a 'twin hull'?

 

[MurrayM]

Something like this?

Kingfisher Powercats

 

[Genecop]

That Kingfisher is nice, cuts through the water beautifully, 2’ 5” draft is sweet...

 

[Benthic2]

what is the difference between a multi-hull and a cat ?

 

[MurrayM]

what is the difference between a multi-hull and a cat ?

Define a trawler

 

[leeman]

Salty, have you perused the Kvichak site? They make some nice looking cats out of aluminium. I motored past their place in Seattle a few years ago and there were some cool looking hulls sitting outside.

 

[leeman]

Salty, have you perused the Kvichak site? They make some nice looking cats out of aluminium. I motored past their place in Seattle a few years ago and there were some cool looking hulls sitting outside.

Ditto with Armstrong.

 

[Simi 60]

My observations in the industry is in a lot of cases its all about the marketing and ethics.
Over the years I have seen some truly skilled builders making great cats go the way of the dodo.
In that same time I have seen semi skilled morons churn out piles of crap without a care and sell plenty.

Palm trees, pretty girls and outrageous claims sells.
#fakenews

 

[Mule]

Try the aluminum boat builders, one comes to mind on Vancouver Island in a protected bay west of Victoria. I questioned him some years back about a displacement cat. Just a thought.

 

[darkside]

As you can see to the left my current boat is the 10.4 planning version of the Kingfisher 1200 mentioned above. The 1200 is a nice boat but the cabin space is almost exactly the same as mine, i.e. too small. The factory is about two miles from my house.
Also they have gone with Hyundai diesels on shafts which means they have to be mounted a long way forward to get an acceptable shaft angle. Any further and they would be under the cabin rather than having cockpit access.
My boat has stern legs which I don't like but it is all a compromise right?
I would suggest V drives as a better bet in a small boat. You get a shaft drive on a decent angle and the added bonus that the engine can be jacked up a bit for better service space.
To me as a one off, an alloy displacement cat with shafts is a great idea, but maybe this is a better choice?
https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1475708585

 

[Comodave]

The problem with all of the cats I have seen is that they only have built in seating which does not work for us due to back problems.

 

[FF]

"what is the difference between a multi-hull and a cat ?"


Multi-hull is a broad term that covers cats , trimirans and proas .

 

[diver dave]

Cats without sail are no good due to snap roll in seas. Trimaran is what you want. Very high single engine efficiency, lack of beam sea snap roll, plus the shallow draft advantage. For $ efficiency, you don't have two "complete" hulls to buy and affix to each other. Cats will always loose the $ to build argument.

 

[Tom.B]

I think what you are talking about will lose a lot of precious space. Narrowing the beam and keeping the draft shallow will compromise too much of what loopers and cruisers need.

Now, here is the thing... boat builders learn a lot over many years of mistakes. That’s how in ovation works. Yes, a new builder can swoop in, hire a great designer, and maybe... if they are lucky... hit one out of the park on their first go. However, I have yet to see one do it. Even Steve Dashew and Jarret Bay improve year-over-year. This is different than building a 1-off for yourself. The satisfaction is the payoff. But getting someone to buy a boat you built to suit yourself is not that easy.

However, IF you COULD build an affordable powercat with enough space to really be comfortable, effecient, and reliable, sign me the f%#k up!

 

[DDW]

The old saw: "How do you make a small fortune in the yacht building industry? Start with a large fortune." This has been true so many times you'd better keep your eyes wide open.

How about diesel outboards? There are a few available again.

 

[Donsan]

Going back to Endeavour, they have come out with a 34' cat with a 16' beam (Endeavour 340) which is outboard powered. With a 21" draft, it looks positioned to be a nice alternative to the TT35 if trailerable and flooded cockpits isn't your thing.


Endeavour 340 - Endeavour Marine | 32', 34' and 42' Offshore Power & Fishing Catamarans

 

[DDW]

The Endeavour has an Igloo interior, but that is how you keep the costs down these days.

 

[SaltyDawg86]

Oh how I love how often this app crashes in the middle of a response....

I've given a lot of thought to an aluminum hull, I just don't know how well it would be accepted on the East Coast. It's already hard enough to get most to accept cats as it is. Though I do like the freedom it allows when it comes to design tweaks vs a fiberglass mold.

As far as designs go, I haven't seen one that I want to us as a reference. I know 2 staterooms are nice, but how many Loopers actually need 2 staterooms? Most of the tugs just have a V Berth.

Doing more research, it seems like the EPA is the biggest hurdle for small boat companies.

I still have some time. If I decide to have a go, it won't be the first hull I build, I have 2 other smaller ones in mind. If that gets me the capital needed, then I may go forward.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I see catamarans like this;

Why bother w them when the mooring problems are so great? Or spend all that extra money? Or put up w the awkward interior spaces?
Just dosn’t seem to be anywhere near enough reason to use anything but a mono-hull.

 

[svmegatron]

SaltyDawg, I think you should go for it. Powercats are awesome and the world needs more of them.

You've asked the question "is there a market for this boat?" and a lot of folks seem to have answered "you can't build it." I don't know if you can build it or not, but if you can I think it will be an amazing boat.

I've ridden on the Endeavour Cat 340 and it is an amazing boat too. The world needs more boats like that.

 

[CanadianBoater]

You would think that I am the ideal future customer for your idea, since the plan is to buy a boat in 3 to 4 years, and in about 5 years start my tour of the world by water. But you would be wrong, because for every advantage a Catamaran has, I see bigger disadvantages. I like the nice wide beam of a conventional style Mono hull.
Let me play the devil's advocate for a moment. A huge cost to R&D before you ever even build the test boats. Then years of sea trials and fixing glitches, probably in 5 to 8 years and $100,000,000 later, you finally produce the first boat for sale to a customer. But you're a newbie and unknown, so not many people like me, an average consumer, want to take the gamble you did it right.
It is very easy for me to call up Krogen in Seattle, just a stones throw to the south of me, and buy a time tested and proven boat. Which do you think I would choose?
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

 

[SaltyDawg86]

The fact you already rule something out before even looking at it and think R&D will cost $100 million already says something.

I never said it was easy. You like staying in your comfort zone? That's cool. Don't try and fault me because I'm looking to take a chance.

 

[CanadianBoater]

The fact you already rule something out before even looking at it and think R&D will cost $100 million already says something.

I never said it was easy. You like staying in your comfort zone? That's cool. Don't try and fault me because I'm looking to take a chance.

Very true that I just made up numbers. I started by saying let me play the devil's advocate for a moment.
Do you know what the exact cost of R&D is? I doubt you do. But whatever you think it is, or how long it will take, its probably not even close to the true number once completed.
So many car companies, new airplane designs, and yes boat builders walk in thinking it will be easy. After they tripled their budget and doubled their development time line, they closed their doors not selling one to a customer.
Not trying to shoot down your dreams, but attempting to make you walk into this with your eyes wide open.
Have you ever done a home renovation such as a new kitchen?
Imagine how easy that would be compared to building a new line of Catamaran boat(s).
Now ask 100 people who had a kitchen reno done, how many were on time and budget. Read the story on a company called Epic aircraft.
Sure looked simple, and a group that had all their ducks in a row. The problems, cost over runs, and extra years of R&D blew my mind. I wanted to be a customer of theirs.

I hope you do it, and nail it.
A new design and new boat builder is a great thing for all of us consumers. But be very realistic going in, have deep pockets full of cash, hire the best people you can find, and don't let time and cost over runs discourage you. Its just how most of these things go.

 

[SaltyDawg86]

Just curious.... What makes you think I'm absolutely clueless? I come here asking a question, seeing what people think, and somehow that transmits into I think this is easy, I'll be rich, and I have no idea about R&D.

Got to love it.

 

[mod45]

Being a relatively new boater, an entrepreneur and an engineer, I too was bitten by the cat bug. I fell head over heals for the old PDQ 41 as well as the Maine Cat p47. Mostly because they make so much sense! A smooth ride, stable at anchor, great efficiency and good room - what's not to like? I took a run at a few models and was never able to get a deal done, in part because they were overpriced. But I interpreted that "demand" as Mr. Market telling me there was an opportunity. I looked into acquiring the physical and digital assets of PDQ from receivership, a trip it has now taken 3 times. The boat business is hard.

I'd love to see a serious cruising line of powercats developed, so this was as much a labor of love as profit, which is the attitude you need to have. Aquilas are nice, but they strike me as the Searay of the powercat world. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong as more used models hit the market and more serious cruisers push them, they are selling well in the states. Leopard PCs have strong points, but they're built first and foremost for the charter world and it shows in the quality.

Here's a quick brain dump of what I learned, some of which has already been stated:

- I'm a SouthFL/Bahamas boater and the beam is a real issue down here. I looked hard for space and you're either going to pay big time at a marina (limited options and a double slip) or you'll have to keep it behind a house which can be challenging if you don't own it. Even then it may be 30-60 minutes away. Powercats are perfect for the Bahamas.

- It will cost about 10-20% more to have it made in the US vs China after you factor in shipping it back to the states (upcoming tariffs may increase this). While the Chinese boatyards have come a long way, their catamaran expertise is limited. That isn't a huge deal because they don't make many in the US either. The real experts are in South Africa. There was a company out of Miami that was trying to build them there and they didn't get any traction. Good looking demo vessel.

- Most boaters still think catamarans look weird and won't consider one. It takes a bit of a maverick who wants something different or someone who genuinely understands the benefits. Or ex-sailors - cats are doing *very* well in the sailing world and that's where most of the R&D goes because that's where the money is being made. While it might seem easy to de-mast a sailing cat and slap some bigger engines in it, it's not (guilty of this assumption).

- Aspen Powercats are a truly unique and innovative product, with a very smart and experienced team behind it. They have a shot at filling the gap in this market. I wish them luck and hope to see one in person soon.

- You'll need around $1.5-2m dollars to get a demo boat built. It should be in the 45-55ft range. There doesn't seem to be enough margin on the smaller end to do it without volume. On the larger end, there's not enough volume. Even at 45ft end of the range you're looking at a $1m+ base price for the line, which is where I kind of lost interest. I was (naively) hoping to pull something off that a "regular" person/family could dream of owning someday. Cats strike me as the most bank for the buck, but that's still a lot of bucks for all but the most fortunate of us.


I wish you luck, I'm really rooting for someone to crack this puzzle.

 

[Simi 60]

Plenty of outstanding cats in other parts of the globe, why try and reinvent the wheel?
Massage the designs of a proven performer to suit your needs.
No need for any r&d

 

[Molly]

I have friends that just got back from the Bahama's. They want to 86 the sailboat and get a power cat. So far, the price is a major barrier. To be big enough for comfort, the price is pretty high, unless you go old or small.

 

[Simi 60]

I have friends that just got back from the Bahama's. They want to 86 the sailboat and get a power cat. So far, the price is a major barrier. To be big enough for comfort, the price is pretty high, unless you go old or small.

That was our issue for comfortable , weight carrying liveaboard
Decent power cat that gave us what our current vessel provides was near 10 x the price

 

[healhustler]

When I think about the assets and liabilities of the cats we know here in the US, I can't think of a better design than the PDQ 34 and 41. For us, the liabilities of the cat in coastal or loop cruising are particularly in its beam. 2nd might be its weight sensitivity. 3rd might be its hallway style of staterooms. 4th might be storage capacity. 5th would be engine access.

Our ultimate cat would be an extended PDQ 34 platform, shown here in this photoshop rendition at 39-40 ft.. Borrowed from the Lagoon 43 styling, its extra length would support a good sized master stateroom aft with a sundeck above. It would be nice to have a couple of extra inches of head space entering the hulls, but the galley, head and pretty much everything else the boat already offers is good with us. The hulls are still narrow and efficient, but better access to the engine cells would be possible with such an arrangement. Build this one or something like this concept and I might go for it.

 

[healhustler]

A bit more finished example.