Problems with Trawlers

[ranger58sb]

Katsailing, I believe the hunting is much better in Florida. I lived there and worked in the marine trades for several years. There are always some very good boats there for a good price.

It's true that the sun is tough on the brightwork in FL but that's easy to make right, and a good compounding of the 'glass can usually make things much better also. Don't be afraid of Florida boats but BE PATIENT! Your boat will find you! Good luck, Ben

And shopping on boats with little to no brightwork in the first place an sometimes at least partially mitigate that, too.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Trawlers from Florida that have been in the water all year need a very good look at their hulls underwater.

2 of my liveaboards from Florida either had or developed blisters....the one I have now required cost prohibitive bottom repair had I not done it myself. The surveyor missed a tad of issues and I foolishly missed the haulout.

The topsides are small potatoes in many respects...depending on your fit and finish requirements.

 

[Wxx3]

That $25-40,000 range will buy you what you're finding right now. Metal shavings in the oil? That's a major Pandora's box. Rotten wood in aft cabin and head liner joists can be repaired by a DIY. Removing the teak decks and fiberglassing over is a long process that can be done by your hubby. Living on board while doing these projects would be extremely difficult. I would take a guess to take a run down trawler and bring it up to livable conditions would be double your initial price of the boat.
Look at same size trawlers that are in good condition with little to no work needed, take that price and subtract what your fix-r-upper is selling for. Difference is a starting point for repairs. Sorry to be so negative. I would build up that boat buying kitty to at least $80,000.00 and buy a boat in far better condition.

TheI think this is excellent advice.

A few things to add:

You can't be in a hurry and find the right boat. Bargains are out there, but if so easy to find, they'd be gone already.

Look at boats double your price range. How can you know if a $40k is worth it, if you haven't seen some at $60, 80k and $20k too.

That's another reason it's a long process.

Find some body you know that knows boats. TF is great, but to every question, there are many answers and I think at your stage, that's not helpful.

E.g. to have to ask about metal shavings in oil twice, is wasting your time.

Boats in the water year around are no better, no worse than boats out of the water.. In fact, out of water can mean many things, not all of them good.

On your budget, Florida is even more attractive since there are so many boats, you are more likely to find what you want st a price you can afford.

We looked at many boats before we bought. Many I knew we had no interest in, but it's important to know what's out there.

Good luck.
I hope this helped.
I wish I could have cats, but...

 

[sunchaser]

Katsailing

What do you want to do 75% of the time with the vessel you acquire?

 

[Art]

Katsailing - Get a purchase broker on your side.

Let the broker recommend boats to you. Be sure to provide the broker a typed list of ALL your needs, use plans, and budget for your boat. Begin to read-up on all info you can find about pleasure boats... internet is great for doing this, library books can be good too. Seems you are not well versed in pleasure power crafts so your learning curve will be nearly vertical at least for some time.

Good Luck - and - Ask Questions Here! There are those who can provide answers.

Happy Boat-Search Daze! - Art

 

[katsailing]

Greetings,
Mr./Ms kat. You may have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince (ess). The one thing that concerns me is your phrase "...but we need to find something soon..." Finding the "right" boat is not an exercise that should be performed under duress. That, coupled with your budget could easily see you make a bad, bad decision. Buying ANY boat is NOT an investment in any way, shape or form. It's a money losing proposition 98% of the time. Mr. cardude 01's suggestion is well founded. Within your budget and it will get you on the water. Do NOT, NEVER, EVER, NO WAY, NO HOW let emotion enter into a boat buying decision. As mentioned by several of my revered colleagues, take your time and look further afield.
I don't know where you heard a boat has to "dry out" every year but stop listening to that person. Do more homework, slow down, chill, enjoy the chase, relax and mostly...

Don't worry, we aren't jumping at the very first boat we see. My husband has been searching and researching information since last summer. It wasn't until recently in the last month we saw more Trawlers in our price range. Most of the urgency came about in the last 2 months. You see we would like to sell our home get out from under this load and live aboard a boat and travel instead of being stuck here in Pennsylvania with 9-5 Jobs and nothing to do but pay bills, come home and sit on the couch watch movies, do gardening and just generally feel like life is passing us by.

 

[katsailing]

TheI think this is excellent advice.

A few things to add:

You can't be in a hurry and find the right boat. Bargains are out there, but if so easy to find, they'd be gone already.

Look at boats double your price range. How can you know if a $40k is worth it, if you haven't seen some at $60, 80k and $20k too.

That's another reason it's a long process.

Find some body you know that knows boats. TF is great, but to every question, there are many answers and I think at your stage, that's not helpful.

E.g. to have to ask about metal shavings in oil twice, is wasting your time.

Boats in the water year around are no better, no worse than boats out of the water.. In fact, out of water can mean many things, not all of them good.

On your budget, Florida is even more attractive since there are so many boats, you are more likely to find what you want st a price you can afford.

We looked at many boats before we bought. Many I knew we had no interest in, but it's important to know what's out there.

Good luck.
I hope this helped.
I wish I could have cats, but...

Thanks Wxx3, you made some very good points. My husband does have a friend he keeps in contact with that has his Captain's license and has chartered boats before. He runs a lot of the information about the boats we have looked at by him. My husband does have some sailing knowledge, I am very much the newbie or novice. He is a quick learner and knows what to look for on the boats right down to the damage that may cause a problem for us down the road. I have been mostly brushing up on sailing terminology as much as I can. We have found something to put a bid on when we were in New Jersey, hopefully this will be the one. Wish us luck, ok?

 

[katsailing]

Trawlers from Florida that have been in the water all year need a very good look at their hulls underwater.

2 of my liveaboards from Florida either had or developed blisters....the one I have now required cost prohibitive bottom repair had I not done it myself. The surveyor missed a tad of issues and I foolishly missed the haulout.

The topsides are small potatoes in many respects...depending on your fit and finish requirements.

Thanks for your input psneeld that was what we were hearing a lot of with the Florida boats. Besides it is too far for us to travel to look at boats, that would put our budget through the roof not to mention we would need a place to stay while browsing. We are sticking to the New Jersey, Maryland and possibly Virginia & North Carolina areas. The last to states being last, very last on our list.

 

[Codger2]

....... instead of being stuck here in Pennsylvania with 9-5 Jobs and nothing to do but pay bills, come home and sit on the couch watch movies, do gardening and just generally feel like life is passing us by.

GEEZ! What's wrong with that? (I guess the grass is really greener out side of Pennsylvania!)

 

[katsailing]

Rudder Problems and Maintenance

Hello Everyone,

In our searching for a Trawler we came across this on the boats rudder shoe:
Picture files attached.
We are looking to buy the boat on which this rudder shoe is attached, how concerned should we be about the extent of the repair work needed on this rudder shoe. Does anyone know how this is made and what is possibly inside? Any information would be appreciated and thanks!

 

[katsailing]

GEEZ! What's wrong with that? (I guess the grass is really greener out side of Pennsylvania!)

No Codger2, not greener just dull. My husband longs to be on the water and I want to be right by his side.

 

[BandB]

I'm feeling a little disconnect here and have some concern. You speak of working 9 to 5 and house payments but then your price limit on the boat is $25-40,000 and looking at boats in Florida would put your budget through the roof. Meanwhile your goal it to get the boat and travel. I'm a bit concerned for two aspects. First, have you included the time and costs of getting the boat ready for travel? Second, how have you budgeted the costs of living aboard and traveling and not having the 9 to 5 job? The costs only start with the initial purchase. Living gets less expensive only if you don't go anywhere and even then there are the basic marina costs and general maintenance. Have you sat down with someone experienced and budgeted for cruising? Just because the engines survey well initially doesn't mean they will remain that way and one major expense could be devastating. Hopefully you have it all worked out with information we don't have and that's fine if you do. I was just concerned based on what you've shared.

 

[katsailing]

Katsailing

What do you want to do 75% of the time with the vessel you acquire?

Well sunchaser eat and sleep and the other 25% take the boat out. Would be nice if we could take our house out, but we can't find a balloon big enough to lift it.

 

[katsailing]

I'm feeling a little disconnect here and have some concern. You speak of working 9 to 5 and house payments but then your price limit on the boat is $25-40,000 and looking at boats in Florida would put your budget through the roof. Meanwhile your goal it to get the boat and travel. I'm a bit concerned for two aspects. First, have you included the time and costs of getting the boat ready for travel? Second, how have you budgeted the costs of living aboard and traveling and not having the 9 to 5 job? The costs only start with the initial purchase. Living gets less expensive only if you don't go anywhere and even then there are the basic marina costs and general maintenance. Have you sat down with someone experienced and budgeted for cruising? Just because the engines survey well initially doesn't mean they will remain that way and one major expense could be devastating. Hopefully you have it all worked out with information we don't have and that's fine if you do. I was just concerned based on what you've shared.

Thanks for your concern BandB, we have take a lot of the expenses into account and run figures by each other and a friend of my husband's who has a captain's license and has quite a bit of knowledge when it comes to boating and boats.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. k. Make/brand of vessel? This will have a bearing (no pun intended...OK, sort of a pun intended-lower rudder bearing....) on how it is constructed. Could be very straightforward and cheap OR complicated and $$$$$.

 

[JDCAVE]

Katsailing. WRT the rudder shoe. Hard to tell from the photo. Get an honest shipwright to get an estimate. Also, with all boats of this age, check the through hulls. By example I looked at a KK42 on the hard with a broker and a shipwright...the SW found a through-hull of concern and the broker questioned the interpretation. SW told the broker to put his finger in and feel the pitting. These sorts of things should be routinely examined when on the hard.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[Art]

Per chance... Is there a Galaxy-Girl in the room... just asking! - LOL

 

[katsailing]

No Art sorry not a Galaxy-Girl! LOL right back.

 

[katsailing]

Greetings,
Mr. k. Make/brand of vessel? This will have a bearing (no pun intended...OK, sort of a pun intended-lower rudder bearing....) on how it is constructed. Could be very straightforward and cheap OR complicated and $$$$$.

Ok RT Firefly, It is a Marine Trader 38.

 

[katsailing]

Katsailing. WRT the rudder shoe. Hard to tell from the photo. Get an honest shipwright to get an estimate. Also, with all boats of this age, check the through hulls. By example I looked at a KK42 on the hard with a broker and a shipwright...the SW found a through-hull of concern and the broker questioned the interpretation. SW told the broker to put his finger in and feel the pitting. These sorts of things should be routinely examined when on the hard.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

Hi JDCave, we were looking at the boat on the hard. It actually has been on the hard about 8 years. Does that make a difference? Also it is a 1995.

 

[C lectric]

Those photos are not enough for a decent opinion here. It could be as simple as loose fiberglass which means poorly done or a rusting, failing, MOVING steel core that has to be replaced and is breaking the fiberglass.

I strongly suggest asking around for a GOOD shipwright, getting references, BEFORE you buy. Many S.W. will work with you as a consultant advising you about what needs to be done, prioritize, and advise you as YOU do the work. You then are doing the grunt stuff and learning. The mistakes can be avoided yet the repairs are done properly. The S.W. may also act as a surveyor of sorts since they have dealt with problems, the manner of repair and costs. They also will likely know of good trades people in other fields who can be trusted to not gyp you.

 

[kulas44]

When you say Marine Trader the first thing that comes to mind for me is extensive rot. Probably that shoe is the VERY least of this boats problems. I dont know your captain friend, but I do know that some of the dumbest and most unitelligent people I do know are Captains. YMMV. Advice is easy to get and invariably worth exactly what you pay for it. Do not buy a boat until you have it surveyed by a competent person, NOT THE SELLERS GUY. Spend the money, it will be the best money you ever spend, especially you !!!!!

 

[Art]

No Art sorry not a Galaxy-Girl! LOL right back.

So... How and how well do you know [of] her???

 

[katsailing]

When you say Marine Trader the first thing that comes to mind for me is extensive rot. Probably that shoe is the VERY least of this boats problems. I dont know your captain friend, but I do know that some of the dumbest and most unitelligent people I do know are Captains. YMMV. Advice is easy to get and invariably worth exactly what you pay for it. Do not buy a boat until you have it surveyed by a competent person, NOT THE SELLERS GUY. Spend the money, it will be the best money you ever spend, especially you !!!!!

kulas44, I agree totally. We haven't bought the boat or put a bid on it yet and yes my husband intends to get it surveyed by an outsider not the broker's person. We have a list of people to call and he is not hesitant in asking questions to get the answers he needs.

 

[kulas44]

He needs an Awl. And a plastic hammer. If he doesnt know why he needs to find out. LEARN

 

[katsailing]

He needs an Awl. And a plastic hammer. If he doesnt know why he needs to find out. LEARN

Pardon?

 

[Mule]

After restoring a 34 Mainship, nothing mechanical, I started at $34,000 spent beyond 2x that. Buy a boat the work has already been done on or do not do this. Boat parts are measured in in troy ounces. You are better to finance and buy a better boat. Usually in the best case you will need to spend 10%, usually 20% to30%, upon purchase. No property tax, only electric and slip fees to deal with, can be cheap living but can also wipe you out. Be careful, very careful.

 

[Conrad]

Greetings,
Mr./Ms kat. You may have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince (ess). The one thing that concerns me is your phrase "...but we need to find something soon..." Finding the "right" boat is not an exercise that should be performed under duress. That, coupled with your budget could easily see you make a bad, bad decision. Buying ANY boat is NOT an investment in any way, shape or form. It's a money losing proposition 98% of the time. Mr. cardude 01's suggestion is well founded. Within your budget and it will get you on the water. Do NOT, NEVER, EVER, NO WAY, NO HOW let emotion enter into a boat buying decision. As mentioned by several of my revered colleagues, take your time and look further afield.
I don't know where you heard a boat has to "dry out" every year but stop listening to that person. Do more homework, slow down, chill, enjoy the chase, relax and mostly...

Take your time and enjoy the search; you will look back on it with fond memories.

Look at many different boats. You will learn something from each one, and you will find your requirements will change and become focussed along the way.

Engaging a good buyer's broker could be your best decision in the whole process.

 

[Scary]

It's a way of sounding for dryrot and delamination

Pardon?

Kulas is dead right. Just because you are a boat captain or for that matter have been around and know about boats does not make a surveyor or even an expert on boats. I have a surveyor friend who has over 4000 surveys under his belt. He has a nose for dry rot. A good surveyor will not only find things your going to miss, but will be able to give a estimate of cost of repair. It is always cheaper to buy a boat that is in good shape than to pay retail for the materials to repair it. Unless boat repair is your hobby, and the purpose of ownership is a project to entertain yourself with. It has been my experience that it is always much more expensive to fix up a boat than to find one in usable condition, pay the extra money and use it. It's very easy to say I can fix this, I can fix that. A gallon of resin is $50, a gallon of epoxy is $150, Varnish $50 a quart. Bottom paint can run
$300 a gallon. Caulking $10- $22 a tube. It adds up fast, real fast. Buy the best boat you can afford and use it.

















4

 

[Capt.Bill11]

What do you think would cause the metal shavings in the oil?

A number of things. But it's very rare to see metal shavings on a dip stick unless something catastrophic happened to the engine. And even then you'd have to pull the dip stick right after the engine had stopped before the metal had a chance to drop out of suspension to see much of it I would think.