Propane Bottle Location Requirements

[rwidman]

None of the standards are anything like a "How to Install Propane Systems on a Boat". They don't take you step by step how to do something.

When I was working, I kept a current copy of the National Electrical Code because some of what I did was covered by that code. I also had a book on how to interpret the National Electrical Code which as more of a "connect the green wire here" type of book.

I don't know of anything like that for boats, at least for propane systems, but if you don't understand the regulations, you cannot follow them and you'll most likely end up with a non-compliant, unsafe system.

 

[sunchaser]

Art

I read your first sentence (let us all just get along) on your 12:37 AM Today's post and thought what a nice man. Then I read your last sentence (use electric you dunderheads) and thought what a provoker. I guess this happens with midnight posts.

 

[Art]

Art

I read your first sentence (let us all just get along) on your 12:37 AM Today's post and thought what a nice man. Then I read your last sentence (use electric you dunderheads) and thought what a provoker. I guess this happens with midnight posts.

sunchaser - - > :lol:

 

[Pineapple Girl]

OMG you guys!!!

Art tell me about your strong quiet Genny? Details including what year is it please?

 

[Capn Chuck]

There are and I already posted a link above, Here it is again:

Here is a link to the ABYC requirements:

Standards, Standards NOT requirements. Requirements if you want to meet ABYC STANDARDS but by no means a requirement that it be done this way. Chuck

 

[Art]

OMG you guys!!!

Art tell me about your strong quiet Genny? Details including what year is it please?

Howdy Jennifer, always great to hear from you!

Our real “cool” operating genny is a Kohler 7.5 KW gen set, wired to boat’s entire 120V electrical system on "load start" basis. Being hooked into every breaker on our boat's electric panel when in use the gen provides 120V electric service to whatever we desire to utilize, just like having the boat plugged into shore power. It's in near perf condition and I believe an orig on our 1977 Tolly. Orig owner (we're the # 2 owners) used it very little, so low hours and well maintained as he babied the boat’s mechanicals in every way (same professional marine mechanic for decades). Closed loop fresh water/coolant with super quiet muffler. Flow through raw water with burned fuel exhaust, to keep heat transfer system cooled, exits stbd side amidships. Depending on wind direction and anchor arrangements we sometimes need to close starboard slider salon access door to stop fumes from entering... but usually not necessary. Because the gen is under a tightly closed and well insulated floor (with thick marine carpet padding and Berber carpet on top) that and the quiet muffler keep gen noise in and out of boat to a minimal... that low noise ratio is also due to it being a gas engine. Diesel gens are usually noisier; at least the older models were... maybe the newer models are somewhat quieter. There are also "sound-shields" available to further reduce noise transfer inside boat.

Cautionary Notes:

1. One thing we don’t do is use every electric item at once, whether on gen or shore AC power. Too much current being forced though a 1977 marine electric panel can fry things if not careful and could start a fire (I know from experience). Matter O’ Fact... always trying to error on side of caution, I don’t even allow the amp meter get much over 20 A before I begin switching off certain area breaker switches (even though the main breaker on panel can take up to 40 A for short duration). In other words... I don’t run the oven on high, with hot water heater heating and micro on at same time as there are 120V lights on and the main battery bank’s charger running, with Christmas lights plugged into receptacles.
2. IMO, for any on-board, under-floor gen set to be safely/carefully/correctly operated it is important to have a fully integrated control panel with a main transfer switch (in order to allow change from dock to gen power), a main breaker covering entire AC system on boat, and independent breakers for various electric accoutrements that addresses both genny and shore power capabilities; with a volt and amp meter clearly visual on or about the panel so that visual acuity of what is occurring is easily at hand.
3. If you do not have a gen set and plan to add a “permanent” genny aboard boat, I strongly recommend you discuss same with a very experienced marine electrician and maybe have said electrician design the gen set / control box system of your dreams. There are good dealers who have new and refurbished gen sets. The dealer may be able to recommend their preferred marine electrician.
4. Also, and EXTREMELY importantly – IMHO, never leave a gen set running while asleep during any time of day or night, or when away from boat for any long period of time. In addition to dangerous exhaust fumes when asleep or away you will not hear, see, or smell items that make you want to shut things down for checking on what you heard or saw or smelled before you restart the gen.
5. And... be sure to have ample Carbon Monoxide and/or other fume alarms operable and placed in appropriate locations.

We hardly ever run the gen more that an hour in morn and hour in eve... often less and never when near by boats are sleeping. Besides for cooking, water heating, video player charging, and main-bank battery charging it can also work real well for non portable high-power plug-in tools when required.

Good Luck! Art

 

[rwidman]

Standards, Standards NOT requirements. Requirements if you want to meet ABYC STANDARDS but by no means a requirement that it be done this way. Chuck

OK, "Standards". There are no boat police and you won't get a citation for cooking inside your boat on a Coleman gasoline stove or a charcoal hibachi, but following the ABYC "standards" insures the safest installation possible and insures that you haven't overlooked something.

There are a couple of exceptions on this forum rolleyes, but most of us don't have the expertise or testing equipment to reinvent all this stuff. That's why it's been done for us.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Thanks Art. Ours is not nearly as loud as the mains but not something I want to listen to for no good reason (it is diesel). (Bacon is a fairly good reason but it takes FOREVER...) the generator leaks every fluid it contains. AND it trips it's breaker fairly frequently. Overall a complete PITA. We are debating an overhaul versus replacement. I was kinda hoping you had a recent vintage that you could recommend. we follow all the steps you mention.

I am hopeful the tripping issue may be resolved now that we had some wiring issues corrected--but other issues remain and it does impact my enjoyment of the boat as I am planning meals (when anchored out) around running my generator and not what I actually want to eat! Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...

 

[Pau Hana]

Thanks Art. Ours is not nearly as loud as the mains but not something I want to listen to for no good reason (it is diesel). (Bacon is a fairly good reason but it takes FOREVER...) the generator leaks every fluid it contains. AND it trips it's breaker fairly frequently. Overall a complete PITA. We are debating an overhaul versus replacement. I was kinda hoping you had a recent vintage that you could recommend. we follow all the steps you mention.

I am hopeful the tripping issue may be resolved now that we had some wiring issues corrected--but other issues remain and it does impact my enjoyment of the boat as I am planning meals (when anchored out) around running my generator and not what I actually want to eat! Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...

Do the conversion- you won't regret it.

 

[Marin]

We are debating an overhaul versus replacement.

The TV/radio station I worked at in Hawaii had a traffic reporter/helicopter pilot who was forced by a budget-conscious station owner to fly the world's most unreliable, piece of sh*t helicopter, the Hughes 300. It fell out of the sky with great regularity, fortunately always immediately after takeoff so it never fell very far. One day not long after its latest crash and subsequent rebuilding I asked the pilot if there was anything that could be done to improve the reliability of the thing. This was the first time I ever heard the phrase---

"You can only polish a turd so much."

This statement, I think, applies to old, outmoded boat generators, too. Get a new one if you can.

 

[rwidman]

You can microwave bacon and it comes out just fine. We don't eat a lot of bacon, but we take the precooked, sealed bacon that needs only five or ten seconds in the microwave. I don't remember offhand if it has to be refrigerated until you cook it. Grocery stores carry it.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

You can microwave bacon and it comes out just fine. We don't eat a lot of bacon, but we take the precooked, sealed bacon that needs only five or ten seconds in the microwave. I don't remember offhand if it has to be refrigerated until you cook it. Grocery stores carry it.

Yeah the precooked isn't bad. I actually like cooking bacon on the stove, but much more so when it takes ten minutes than thirty!!

Marin, yeah good point. It's not quite THAT bad but now that EVERY fluid is leaking it may be time to start fresh.

 

[CPseudonym]

Faux bacon... Facon?

 

[Steve]

On the back porch I have a BBQ pit, on the boat a Magma grill

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Faux bacon... Facon?

Gack!! Oh hell no.

 

[markpierce]

Found it lot easier to cook bacon in the oven rather than on a frying pan.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Found it lot easier to cook bacon in the oven rather than on a frying pan.

Lol. Once again, takes forever. Did that last Friday when we had brunch for 12 and had to cook multiple items at one time (microwaved some as well). I really prefer the outcome when I pan fry however. I like my bacon JUST SO. what can I tell you?

 

[markpierce]

. I like my bacon JUST SO. what can I tell you?

Pay close attention! ... Avoid grease spattering on one' flesh by cooking the bacon in the oven. Besides, no need to turn! Trust me. I've been cooking for more than 40 years.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Pay close attention! ... Avoid grease spattering on one' flesh by cooking the bacon in the oven. Besides, no need to turn! Trust me. I've been cooking for more than 40 years.

Lol then you should know how to dodge the splatter. My results from baking bacon are nothing compared to my frying results. Perfection.

 

[Marin]

While I would not cook anything that's not in a can for all the money in the world, I have to agree with Jennifer on this one. Pan frying bacon yields a much better piece of bacon than cooking it in the oven in my opinion. Oven-cooked bacon always seems to come out dry which I hate but which some people might like. As far as the grease spattering thing, my wife has this wire mesh thingy that she puts on top of the frying pan that eliminates the whole flying grease deal.

My major bitch with the whole bacon thing is that gammon is not available in this country (or even in Canada which surprises me). Our Australian friends should know what it is, however.

 

[Art]

Thanks Art. Ours is not nearly as loud as the mains but not something I want to listen to for no good reason (it is diesel). (Bacon is a fairly good reason but it takes FOREVER...) the generator leaks every fluid it contains. AND it trips it's breaker fairly frequently. Overall a complete PITA. We are debating an overhaul versus replacement. I was kinda hoping you had a recent vintage that you could recommend. we follow all the steps you mention.

I am hopeful the tripping issue may be resolved now that we had some wiring issues corrected--but other issues remain and it does impact my enjoyment of the boat as I am planning meals (when anchored out) around running my generator and not what I actually want to eat! Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...

BTW: I love to do a lot of dinner grilling on our Maggma propane grill! Cuts down on gen set hours and gives great opportunities for some fancy grillen!

UUMMMMYYY!!

 

[READY2GO]

Jenifer,

Our MT 36 came with the propane tank in the brow, but I took it out one day after I opened the door to the closet in the vee berth and the propane about knocked me out. We had developed a leak and the propane entered the hanging locker through the chase that concects the lower and upper helms. I made our new propane locker out of a seat on the flybridge and ran a new line to the stove in such a way as to only allow about 4' of hose inside the boat. If I could figure out how to post pics I would show you. I wish you could just insert a jpeg.

 

[Moonstruck]

Propane is attractive but figuring out where to install the bottles and the gas line, plus buying the appliance, is less appealing. probably pretty unlikely that I will go this way but still considering...

Jennifer, I have stayed away from this discussion because I am not ABYC certified. I am not a marine technician. Hell, I don't even know anything about MTUs. However I do know this. I had a trawler with a propane tank mounted under the flybridge dash.

Here is how it was done. Now, I don't know if it met any standards, but Matt can figure that out. There were vent holes covered by stainless steel louvers cut low in the sides of the compartment that drained the accumulated heavier than air gas over the side. There was a collar installed at the chase where the wiring and steering mechanisim came up from below. It would be easy to fabricate one of these collars. Maybe by cutting two half brackets of wood or Starboard that would fit snugly around a split PVC pipe that would be big enough to cover the hole of the chase by a good margin. Seal all seams with something like 3m 5200 or something similar. Now, the collar would have to be high enough that gas could not accumulate high enough to go down the chase to the engine room. It is not a complicated thing to do. Of course, you will have to secure the propane tank. Run a tube from the tank to the stove with no joints between. Be careful not to crimp any lines. While you are doing that install a switch wire to operate a solenoid switch at the tank. Put the switch by the stove with an on light. That's all I know about that and most anything else.

Now, how often should I use this GOJO? This stuff is drying my skin out!

 

[markpierce]

Lol then you should know how to dodge the splatter. My results from baking bacon are nothing compared to my frying results. Perfection.

OK, Jennifer, whenever we "hook up," you're responsible for preparing the bacon.

 

[rwidman]

If you need to seal a chase, nothing beats the products sold for this purpose at electrical supply houses or home centers. It comes in a pressurized can with a flexible nozzle. Install the nozzle on the can, stick it as far into the chase as you can, then push the button while withdrawing the can and nozzle.

It's an expanding foam that seals all gaps, is firefroof, and can be punched through and removed if you need to change something in the future.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

We watched "Masquerade" last night (1988 films starring Rob Lowe, Kim Catrell, Meg Tilly, Doug Savant...). It has a scene that involves a sailboat, propane and a rat. YIKES. it was not an accident, however.

That foam Ron is talking about is good stuff!

 

[READY2GO]

Hopefuly I got this picture thing figured out and they post correctly.[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[boatpoker]

Installing a proper (compliant) propane system is not difficult. We installed ours because I didn't like to start the genny to make coffee in the morning.

1st picture - There was a single pedestal helm seat here which we replaced with this box seat.
2nd picture - inside the box seat, two 20lb. tanks and a drain in the bottom
3rd picture - As the drain must lead drirectly overboard and not near any doors, windows, vents, ports, hatches etc. we ran the hose through bottom of the locker.
4th picture - The drain hose (inside the white pipe) goes through the vanity counter top in the head compartment below and out a throughhull below the sheer where it should be.

 

[Art]

R2GO and bp - You both have good looking propane tank set ups. I had somewhat similar, but with cover being cockpit-floor level and with sealed FRP box extending below and intricate to the rear FRP deck in my previously owned Uniflite sedan. It was factory original.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

thanks for the photos and ideas guys!