Proposed boating safety law in Florida

[jleonard]

I got my boaters certification many years ago in Connecticut when it became a requirement. Taught by the local power squadron it was “ so-so”. Mainly knot tying and navigation but that was prior to gps mapping and plotters
Our granddaughter went fairly recently and she really didn’t learn much over what I taught her.
And from what I saw for years boating in the CT/ LI sound area the education didn’t seem to have much effect.
That said, in 30 plus years I never was asked to show my “ license”..

 

[greatwhite]

Not all states have screwed this up. I think the courses could be more useful, but in NY, for example, you can do it online and the approved courses range between cheap and free. After you're done it's a few bucks to get the card printed, or you can have DMV add it to your license at the next renewal for no extra charge.

The trouble with online coarses is anybody can take the coarse for you.

 

[psneeld]

NJ does not accept online courses unless the exam is given by a certified proctor/instructor.

They only recently started to allow on line courses for NJ residents but you still have to take the test in person.

 

[PhilPB]

I just read the proposed bill FL Senate bill 30. Doesn't appear to be very useful.

 

[psneeld]

Useful to me in that - as a senior I don't need a fishing license, just my drivers license/ID card. I always have that with me, sometimes I forget my boater safety card, other states fishing licenses (usually in a different container when I switch boats or fishing tackle boxes). With the symbol on the drivers license, that will be less of an issue.

I don't know what the increased insurance requirements for those with BUIs, but I suspect it may help and it woun't hurt me...again help without penalty for me.

 

[Don L]

About 10/years ago I decided o get the State boater license even/though I didn't need it. So I started doing the online course, would have had to go and take a test in person, but I just stopped after 3 chapters about jet skies

 

[psneeld]

The course covers a lot of boating subjects in case the card holder decides to drive a bunch of different watercraft.

It is so comical to me that fellow, serious boaters complain about this course.

A real boater can sleep through the class and score in the 90's if not 100.

I had a volunteer fireman show up with a giant cooler of beer during one course I was instructing. I was never instructed what to do with that issue and since it was their firehouse, I didn't prevent consumption.

He was pretty toasted the second night and still scored a 100.... so all those complaining about the course, I get that it's simplistic on so many levels...but if a requirement... what is the big deal?

Lot's of other ridiculous things in life to worry about and the one that tries to make our hobby better.... gets so much push back?

 

[SteveK]

Put round peg into this square hole.

 

[twistedtree]

I always hear arguments about how rule xyz doesn't solve 100% of the problem, so why bother. I think that's totally wrong thinking, and only encourages us to remain cavemen. Rules like this, as imperfect as they are, are steps in the right direction, and steps that should be taken to minimize the dumb, drunk, free-for-all that so much of boating is. There is no magic solution, only steps in the right direction.

 

[Seevee]

I could make an argument for either sides of the proposed law, but generally, I'm against it. We already have too many laws and few are enforced. Just look at cars... I'd be surprised if 25% or more of the drivers out there, have no license and/or required insurance. Just recently had a driver that had neither, hit me and the cop only issued him a ticket and he drove away.



However, I'm all for education. You could require that anyone registering a boat be required to show their card.



And, I'd like to keep the drinking issue separate from the educational requirement. The drunks will drink, no matter what, and we simply just need to enforce the rules already on the books, more so with cars.



And the drunk that kills or mames someone with their boat should loose all privileges for life and get many years (if not life) behind bars.


And regardless, the LEO should still have probably cause prior to stopping a boater.

 

[twistedtree]

I could make an argument for either sides of the proposed law, but generally, I'm against it. We already have too many laws and few are enforced. Just look at cars... I'd be surprised if 25% or more of the drivers out there, have no license and/or required insurance. Just recently had a driver that had neither, hit me and the cop only issued him a ticket and he drove away.



However, I'm all for education. You could require that anyone registering a boat be required to show their card.



And, I'd like to keep the drinking issue separate from the educational requirement. The drunks will drink, no matter what, and we simply just need to enforce the rules already on the books, more so with cars.



And the drunk that kills or mames someone with their boat should loose all privileges for life and get many years (if not life) behind bars.


And regardless, the LEO should still have probably cause prior to stopping a boater.

I'm all for enforcing the laws we already have, and agree there is a big gap there today.

 

[Delta Riverat]

As far as the drinking goes...

You can drive at .07. In a nice air conditioned car in the shade rolling down a nice smooth road. That's about 3 to 4 beers.

The class teaches you (what I already knew) that 3 to 4 beers can feel like 6 to 8 beers in the sun (both direct and reflected) the wind and the waves. So you can be legal BAC wise but still impared.

Yeah, I don't get the push back either.

 

[greatwhite]

Useful to me in that - as a senior I don't need a fishing license, just my drivers license/ID card. I always have that with me, sometimes I forget my boater safety card, other states fishing licenses (usually in a different container when I switch boats or fishing tackle boxes). With the symbol on the drivers license, that will be less of an issue.

I don't know what the increased insurance requirements for those with BUIs, but I suspect it may help and it woun't hurt me...again help without penalty for me.

What state drops the required fishing license when you become a senior?

 

[psneeld]

What state drops the required fishing license when you become a senior?

Florida

You know, the one the "others" were making fun of in another thread....

 

[PhilPB]

As far as I'm concerned, virtually anyone can take a course and pass it, but you can never fix stupid. And I see a lot if that on the water.

 

[CaptTom]

This subject comes up from time to time. I think the key is to have the right perspective.

First of all, these courses don't make anyone smarter. For some students, they do provide a good, basic foundation. But those aren't the ones you're trying to reach. The true goal is to have every student leave the class knowing (1) there are rules on the water, and (2) they don't know them all.

Too many people hop in a boat and assume there are no rules. There are no stop lights, no painted lines, and very few signs. That's the assumption we need to change.

Of course some don't bother to learn the rules. But if they've got at least a nagging fear that they may be breaking some rule, that may be enough to make the waterways just a bit safer for the rest of us.

Finally, we should all be absolutely clear that we're talking about an education requirement here, not a "license."

Licenses can be revoked. Licenses require regular renewal. Licenses require an entrenched government bureaucracy which will continue to grow (and raise fees) forever.

If we keep these simple points in mind, a boater education program can be a positive thing. But boaters are a minority. We need to be very, very careful about giving the majority another source of revenue.

 

[Hippocampus]

I don’t pay for hunting/fishing sportsman license in MA.

Took care of traumatic brain injuries and near drownings from boating accidents. Typical wasn’t trawlers nor even sportfish but rather PWCs and high powered small boats under 30’. Common settings weren’t open water but rather lakes, bays and rivers. Commonly operators causing the accidents were with limited assets hence judgement proof.

Think much of the above doesn’t speak to my experience. Think at the time of purchase or rental of the boats most likely to be involved in serious injury or death is were the intervention should occur. Both a written test and a practical demonstration of competence on the water. Paid for by the operator and supervised by state or national entities. Also think a bond or other instrument should be demonstrated to cover potential expenses of injured parties. Even before my retirement medical costs at or exceeding $1m were not uncommon. Bond, insurance , or established lien against maintained assets ( investments go down past that number you lose the privilege to boat) be needed to be demonstrated. Also think just like with cars and inspection stickers or drivers licenses periodic renewals are required.

For vessels beyond a fixed tonnage an active license much like a 6 pack be maintained.

What burns my butt is the repetitive deaths and life changing injuries caused by unlicensed motor vehicle operators with multiple DWIs. I think mandatory jail time should be de rigor for that group. Have no objection for the same on the water.

 

[SteveK]

The bill also addresses boating under the influence, a big problem for the Sunshine State’s waterways, where more than 600 boaters were caught under the influence in 2022.

amending s. 327.35, F.S.; requiring a
person convicted of certain violations relating to
boating under the influence to maintain an insurance
policy that meets certain requirements; providing
criminal penalties for failure to maintain such
insurance;

The above is because about 600 boaters were caught under the influence. Boaters do not require insurance unless caught drunk driving in Florida if this is passed.

 

[SteveK]

I like this part of the proposed legislation.

"or Canada which meets or exceeds the minimum
requirements established by the National Association of State
Boating Law Administrators."

 

[psneeld]

As far as the "rules of the road" and boating safety classes, the booklet we used right from NASBLA (Nat Assn of Boating Law Administrators) clearly stated students were not expected to learn all the rules...well that makes sense as most will never operate dredges, tow boats, fishing vessels, minesweepers (or ever see one).... captain licensing was a t a higher level.

And just go back and review rules of the road discussions here on TF (actually all boating forums). Many really don't know the rules and don't know how to interpret them when there is the discussion of ambiguity. Many here acknowledge that the average TFer is light years more experienced than the average boater yet they still are VERY inexperienced.

Many charter boat captains I taught in the basic and upgrade classes didn't know crap before the classes, passed amazingly enough and within a year had forgotten much of it when I got calls from them.

As posted before...none of this is a perfect system...but each little step does improve things incrementally.... unfortunately it seems at a glacial pace.

 

[SteveK]

Rules

NASBLA (Nat Assn of Boating Law Administrators)
Navigation Rules of the Road (NAVRUL)

Here is a 226 page doc of navigation rules

Reading the NAVRUL this is what entered my head.

SIGNS

 

[High Wire]

At least in NJ the state police required a proctored exam. Internet exams are a joke. What doesn’t make sense is why you can’t go to the DMV testing center that they have setup for cars and trucks then take the boating test there?

 

[psneeld]

At least in NJ the state police required a proctored exam. Internet exams are a joke. What doesn’t make sense is why you can’t go to the DMV testing center that they have setup for cars and trucks then take the boating test there?

There was a lot of pushing back and forth between the civilian schools and the Gov't associated training (USCGAUX and state police) when I was involved. The state police did NOT like the responsibility of handling the courses and barely the paperwork involved (even though I think it was one lady and she did a fabulous job or record keeping pre/post computers).

I doubt the DMV want to get drug into the fray too...but I agree, putting the software on the computers and a 5 minute check-in might be all that's needed if the pass/fail data could be transferred to the office that issues the cards.

I am gone from Jersey but it's not a bad suggestion...maybe to the AC Press who could follow up.

 

[alormaria]

What state drops the required fishing license when you become a senior?

New Jersey does too.

 

[psneeld]

NJ has a free saltwater registry program for all people, senior or not resident or not...

Saw these 2 entries on NJ Fish/Wildlife website

"A discounted fishing license is available to all residents, age 65 and under 70 years of age. Resident anglers age 70 and over do not require a fishing license or Trout Stamp."

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/licenses-and-permits/fishing-and-hunting-license-and-permit-information/

"FRESHWATER FISHING
Anyone age 16 and above must have a valid license to fish the fresh waters of New Jersey with a handline, rod and line or bow and arrow. This includes privately owned lakes and other waters. There are also Freshwater Fisheries Permits for such things as stocking private ponds.
More Information



HUNTING AND TRAPPING
Obtaining regular hunting and trapping licenses requires proof of a completed hunter education course or a previous year’s resident license. Licenses need to be purchased at an agent if a record of such documentation is not in the system’s database. The agent will enter the information into the database. Nonresidents ONLY may use the Nonresident License Documentation Form to make hunting and trapping licenses available for purchase.

Once documentation of a previous year’s hunting license or hunter education is entered in the system, licenses can be purchased online and printed at home. Licenses purchased at an agent are printed on durable, waterproof stock. Licenses purchased online can also be printed on durable stock and mailed for an optional $2.00 fee; firearm licenses are always mailed as required by law.

Those without documentation readily available can consider an Apprentice License.

Licenses must be openly displayed in the middle of the back on outer clothing.
More Information



MARINE LICENSES
New Jersey does not have a recreational saltwater license but does require licenses for some activities – see the Marine License Information page.

Note that a Shellfish License and is required for harvesting of all species of benthic mollusks (with the exception of conchs, which are addressed in the commercial marine fisheries regulations), including, but not limited to, hard and soft clams, surf clams, oysters, bay scallops and mussels. See the Shellfish License information section of the Marine License Information page for details."

 

[Hyperion]

In theory yes. In reality, Florida has tens of thousands of drivers on the road that lost their license. Idiots are going to idiot, with or without a license.

With no requirement to operate a vessel, there is no tool to take away your boating privileges.

With the card (which is about as simple as one can get because of the very basic educational requirements in the course) and being required to carry one, no law enforcement can remove your privilege to operate under the assumption you at least were exposed to the various rules in boating.

 

[psneeld]

In theory yes. In reality, Florida has tens of thousands of drivers on the road that lost their license. Idiots are going to idiot, with or without a license.

Unless you are in a legal position or government agency steering legal issues.... you still seem to miss the LE/legal issue that without something to take away, enforcement and penalizing is more difficult.

The certificate and the requirement to carry it is one step further along the road to stiffening enforcement.

Many "idiots" do have their licenses and many do learn from their mistakes when they are really threatened.

 

[markpierce]

I assume all boaters are clueless, unless proved otherwise. Fortunately, most are competent.

 

[PhilPB]

Unless you are in a legal position or government agency steering legal issues.... you still seem to miss the LE/legal issue that without something to take away, enforcement and penalizing is more difficult.

The certificate and the requirement to carry it is one step further along the road to stiffening enforcement.

"Many "idiots" do have their licenses and many do learn from their mistakes when they are really threatened."[/QUOTE]


The problem is the ones who don't learn. I see plenty of LE (CG, FWC, Sheriff, Local police) out here locally in South Florida, and usually have a jetskier stopped.

 

[psneeld]

Unless you are in a legal position or government agency steering legal issues.... you still seem to miss the LE/legal issue that without something to take away, enforcement and penalizing is more difficult.

The certificate and the requirement to carry it is one step further along the road to stiffening enforcement.

"Many "idiots" do have their licenses and many do learn from their mistakes when they are really threatened."[/QUOTE]


The problem is the ones who don't learn. I see plenty of LE (CG, FWC, Sheriff, Local police) out here locally in South Florida, and usually have a jetskier stopped.

Very rarely does any solution work 100%.

Can't say about other states but NJ recorded some improvement in both PWC and boaing issues after the implementation of the courses.

One thing my teaching employer did was keep track of citations issued by the NJ State Marine Police and always thought the numbers were too low. My guess is if they were given more support at many levels, further improvement would be quickly noted.

One thing I do notice is that while many boaters complai about all the "jerks" on the water, being a jersey usually won't get you a citation. Plenty should..... but the vast majority won't.