Recreational Boating & the Green Movement

[FF]

Given any power the Greenies will not ignore boats while they cancel tractor pulls, NHRA drag racing , NASCAR , RV travel, motorcycles over 100cc , lawn mowers ,snow blowers and chain saws.

There may be a by back of BBQ equipment , and gas powered kitchen stoves.

"May you live in interesting times" indeed !

 

[CharlieO.]

It seems we have a situation where some tout a belief, and ask others to act, while they themselves are unwilling to do so.

Hello Mr. Sanders

I believe we call that type of person a politician.

 

[CaptTom]

Whoa! Lots of turds flying back and forth here!

I think we can be honest about the "harm" humans are doing, and still enjoy life as a human.

We have to look at the big picture. Clearly killing off the vast majority of humans would minimize our impact on the environment. I'm not ready to advocate that, nor volunteer to be among those eliminated.

So, what can we do? The first step is to face up to reality. Denial isn't going to get us anywhere.

Next we need to balance what's ideal with what's practical. I see declining birth rates in the developed world. I see massive (and profitable) investments in renewable energy and energy efficiency. We ARE solving a lot of problems, even if we're not solving them as fast as some would like.

And who's to say that humanity is a bad thing? What's more important in the overall scheme of things? Maybe we as a species are destined for great contributions to the universe, even at the cost of making a mess around this speck we call Earth. Maybe this is just a phase. I suspect some day people will look back at how "primitive" we are now, eating (yuck!) dead animals and pouring toxic substances into our air and water.

So, what can I as an individual do? Support forward-looking, science-based policies. Not have too many kids. Reduce, reuse and recycle where practical. But I can't personally switch society away from fossil fuels. Believe me, when a solar-powered trawler becomes available AND affordable, I'll have one. When we can produce a nice, juicy steak in a factory, I'll eat those. Meanwhile, I'll continue to squeeze as much use as I can out of the boat I have, and eat what's available at the supermarket. You could even argue that by not buying a new boat, and "reusing" an old one, I'm already doing good.

 

[Hippocampus]

Find it intriguing that in my prior posts I pointed out several facts

To the deniers please read the multiple documents of the international committee on climate change. After reading them please come back to this forum. There’s overwhelming science this is occurring. Do not be a flat earther.

To the go get a sailboat crowd please read my prior post. Sailboats aren’t all that “green” either. Also go take a cruise throughout the eastern Caribbean. The shoreline litter of abandoned sailboats is pretty remarkable. Watch a sailboat burn. All that petrochemical burns quite well and the smoke generated is most remarkable. Can be seen miles and miles away. Take a look at what’s used to make a sailboat, the sails and lines. Virtually none of it is recyclable.

To many posters the threat isn’t best referred to as “global warming “ but rather climate change for a reason. Some areas will get dryer and warmer but some wetter or colder. Weather is different than climate. In my country the southwest and parts of the north west have been in chronic drought for years. Central south actually colder and areas that rarely saw snow now do. Even northern Florida colder in the winter. But the northeast warmer and wetter. Net effect less arable land. Less food production. More human migrations as sub tropical areas become arid tropical in climate. Driver is higher ocean water temperatures. More energy producing shifts in steering air currents. Storms can be viewed as a epiphenomena.

Your and my recreational craft contribution is pretty irrelevant in the big picture but yes I do want a FD trawler and not a large planing deep V sportfish in part in order to have less of a footprint. Not internally consistent as I also want a naturally aspirated, non turbo , mechanically controlled engine as well.

 

[denverd0n]

I have to say it... I find the "cow farts" argument to be pretty funny. I mean, 500 years ago North America was practically overrun with ungulates. 60 million bison. 50 million deer. Elk, antelope, moose. They were everywhere. And, what? None of them EVER farted!?!


I mean, seriously!

 

[OldDan1943]

I also want a naturally aspirated, non turbo , mechanically controlled engine as well.

BINGO!!! I totally agree.

I wonder if I can detune my Cummins QSB 5.9 380hp all the way back to a naturally aspirated, non turbo engine, ideally without electronic control.
How many HP would remain?

 

[rslifkin]

BINGO!!! I totally agree.

I wonder if I can detune my Cummins QSB 5.9 380hp all the way back to a naturally aspirated, non turbo engine, ideally without electronic control.
How many HP would remain?

In the older mechanical Cummins B series, the basic naturally aspirated 6B was good for 120hp. Then you had 180, 210, and 220hp turbo / non-aftercooled versions (6BT), then everything higher was turbo / aftercooled (6BTA). They never made a non-turbo version of the electronic QSB, but I'd expect if they did, power would have been somewhere in that same 120hp range, give or take a little.

 

[OldDan1943]

In the older mechanical Cummins B series, the basic naturally aspirated 6B was good for 120hp. Then you had 180, 210, and 220hp turbo / non-aftercooled versions (6BT), then everything higher was turbo / aftercooled (6BTA). They never made a non-turbo version of the electronic QSB, but I'd expect if they did, power would have been somewhere in that same 120hp range, give or take a little.

I guess I will just leave the engine alone. SHRUG
I do like the idea of going faster than 8 knots when necessary.
Thanks.
Dan.

 

[rslifkin]

I guess I will just leave the engine alone. SHRUG
I do like the idea of going faster than 8 knots when necessary.
Thanks.
Dan.

The big key is that with the same size engine, de-powering it wouldn't save you any fuel. Being that you'd have to re-gear and re-prop and end up turning higher RPM at slow cruise, it might even burn more.

 

[Group9]

I have to say it... I find the "cow farts" argument to be pretty funny. I mean, 500 years ago North America was practically overrun with ungulates. 60 million bison. 50 million deer. Elk, antelope, moose. They were everywhere. And, what? None of them EVER farted!?!


I mean, seriously!

You make a good point. Left brain thinking versus right brain thinking gives you a completely different perspective on a lot of things, climate change included.

I mean, if anyone here really believed that CO2 was killing the planet, wouldn't we all be on the Sailing Forum, instead of the Trawler Forum?

I sure wouldn't have sold my sailboat and bought a twin engine powerboat, if I believed it.

 

[SteveK]

Climate Change is the buzzword as if this is something new, never happened before and is entirely caused by the industrial revolution and the use and burning of fossil fuels.

Coal, that ancient dead plant stuff responsible for electrifying the world and blackening the lungs of millions, is basically synonymous with global warming these days. But when all that plant corpse concentrate was first locked away in the ground, it took a lot of carbon out of the air. A new climate modeling study posits that when this happened about 300 million years ago, it wreaked havoc on Earth’s climate, pushing our planet to the brink of global glaciation.

Yes, you read that correctly—coal might have played a role in one of the most brutal cold snaps in Earth’s history. And that has some unsettling implications when considering our current epoch of coal-fueled global warming.

Source

 

[SteveK]

Source

 

[OldDan1943]

"They" say, because cows eat plants, they fart more.
If we all became vegetarians, stands to reason we would fart more.
That might result in more beatings by our spouse/mate because we generally fart in enclosed spaces, capturing the smell. LOL

 

[ksanders]

You make a good point. Left brain thinking versus right brain thinking gives you a completely different perspective on a lot of things, climate change included.

I mean, if anyone here really believed that CO2 was killing the planet, wouldn't we all be on the Sailing Forum, instead of the Trawler Forum?

I sure wouldn't have sold my sailboat and bought a twin engine powerboat, if I believed it.

Yes, that was my point!

If you really believe something, then you act on those beliefs.

I have complete respect for anyone, no matter what their belief who actually lives the life that those beliefs seemingly dictate.

The opposite is true as well. I tend not to take seriously anyone who says one thing and does another.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yes, that was my point!

If you really believe something, then you act on those beliefs.

I have complete respect for anyone, no matter what their belief who actually lives the life that those beliefs seemingly dictate.

The opposite is true as well. I tend not to take seriously anyone who says one thing and does another.

May I point out, plants need CO2 for photosynthesis? W/O CO2 plants cannot provide us oxygen.

And for everyones' information, screw it, I will live my life as I want and can afford.
I dont have kids to worry about and I am sure not going to worry about your kids. But then, I feel the same way about providing welfare and child support.

 

[Group9]

View attachment 114101
Source

What did the governments do the last three or four times this happened to get it back under control? Because, whatever they did, seems to have worked.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

LOL These groups are alive and well living in the California and other places. They are the 'tree huggers" aka, dont cut a tree down, no control burns, dont drive your car, buy an electric car because the dont pollute etc, which is a crock of crap.

So...which organizations advocate against Rx fire, exactly?

 

[Alaskaflyer]

What did the governments do the last three or four times this happened to get it back under control? Because, whatever they did, seems to have worked.

Cute chart that shows CO2 cycling up to around 300 ppm

Today it’s above 400 ppm.

 

[KnotYet]

Cute chart that shows CO2 cycling up to around 300 ppm

Today it’s above 400 ppm.

Can I get an 'Amen'?

 

[Art]

Find it intriguing that in my prior posts I pointed out several facts

To the deniers please read the multiple documents of the international committee on climate change. After reading them please come back to this forum. There’s overwhelming science this is occurring. Do not be a flat earther.

To the go get a sailboat crowd please read my prior post. Sailboats aren’t all that “green” either. Also go take a cruise throughout the eastern Caribbean. The shoreline litter of abandoned sailboats is pretty remarkable. Watch a sailboat burn. All that petrochemical burns quite well and the smoke generated is most remarkable. Can be seen miles and miles away. Take a look at what’s used to make a sailboat, the sails and lines. Virtually none of it is recyclable.

To many posters the threat isn’t best referred to as “global warming “ but rather climate change for a reason. Some areas will get dryer and warmer but some wetter or colder. Weather is different than climate. In my country the southwest and parts of the north west have been in chronic drought for years. Central south actually colder and areas that rarely saw snow now do. Even northern Florida colder in the winter. But the northeast warmer and wetter. Net effect less arable land. Less food production. More human migrations as sub tropical areas become arid tropical in climate. Driver is higher ocean water temperatures. More energy producing shifts in steering air currents. Storms can be viewed as a epiphenomena.

Your and my recreational craft contribution is pretty irrelevant in the big picture but yes I do want a FD trawler and not a large planing deep V sportfish in part in order to have less of a footprint. Not internally consistent as I also want a naturally aspirated, non turbo , mechanically controlled engine as well.

Hipp - Your understanding is firm; pleasure to toss posts back n' forth with you!

I hope TF contributors read well, understand and are willing to post their input toward restoration of and then maintaining for what civilization-life requires to be of Earth's ecosystem stability. Civilization is not in this position of planetary ecosystem failure due to a planned basis. But rather, we got into this mess through the exuberance of simply being humans who love to multiply and who also have never ending desires to build [create] new things. I could expound upon that statement regard "in the likeness of God"... but that's a whole different subject - LOL!

What it actually comes down to: Humanity [as a whole] is in its rebellious adolescent years. Just beginning to recognize that maybe during its recent centuries... our inventiveness and pro creation desires went a bit "Over Board"!! Pun intended for TF member smiles.

Soooo.... We're in this together and only by working together can come out of this "alive". Yup... to salvage/restore Earth's current [and for the last many thousand years] position of a life endearing environmental configuration has now become a life or death endeavor. Life or death that is for future human generations; as well for millions of other life forms on this planet.

Most persons do not have knowledge of what makes this multi faceted "living" clock [Earth] tick. Regarding global based items such as I highlighted in your post above: "Driver is higher ocean water temperatures. More energy producing shifts in steering air currents. Storms can be viewed as a epiphenomena."

Therein [increasing ocean temperatures; which themselves are a form of epiphenomena, stemming from a broader base] lies one of the biggest "result-drivers" of eventual climate, environment and ecosystem changes [collapse]. That is, in human definition: Collapse of the way we like it and we can live within. Here's a simple premise: Earth [mother nature if you will] is happy to revolve around the sun as a ball of ice, a ball of fire or a ball of life giving, life supporting attributes - such as has been accomplished in recent billion +/- years... Ain't Life Grand!!

I'll not get into all the nuisances contained in this currently occurring production of global ecosphere "change". However, I will define the "main-driver"; the initiator and the single most pronounced item with which civilization could stop global warming: Atmospheric content of carbon dioxide.

Earth's "Heat-Flame" [the Sun] throws out a fairly consistent energy of warmth. Earth, in its solar position and with its available natural conditions morphed [evolved] into using Sun energy to become a big blue globe of life filled corridors. Again; "Ain't Life Grand"!

Now, please understand, and meaning this with the highest regard for our planet: Earth is nothing more nor less than a GREAT BIG HOME. As with all homes, to keep them livable, Earth should be cared for. Correct temperature is of utmost importance in Earth's many corridors and its rooms attached.

To keep the temperature ranges required [for livable conditions] throughout all of Earth it is the atmosphere and solar heat rays that make first contact. What is contained in the atmosphere [moisture clouds, gasses, fibers, dust, soot... etc] represent exactly how much of the solar heat becomes absorbed and creates the general atmospheric temperature. Of the items [mentioned above] it is carbon dioxide that has gotten way too much [nearly double the norm of recent 1000's of years] increased content. CO2 not only remains in ambient air for long periods... it also... absorbs solar ray heat!

With that said - We have ways to separate the CO2 from atmosphere and turn it into viable, profitable groups of commodity products needed by every society.

"Where's there is the will there is a way: As scientific proof of severe soon to arrive [during next several decades] and currently obviously beginning to occur eco-systemic storms, calamities, upheavals and extinctions attain the conscious level of public recognition - "We The People" of the world must and will join the cause to accomplish the mantra of my company "Save Earth's Ecosystem"!

Humanity, societies, i.e. civilization in context will reach the end of this 21st Century and enter into the 22nd Century much wiser for the wear. How unscathed our life form remains depends largely on how soon we all take cooperative actions to "Save Earth's Ecosystem"!!!

Cheers!

Art

 

[localboy]

What did the governments do the last three or four times this happened to get it back under control? Because, whatever they did, seems to have worked.

They taxed and taxed and taxed. High cave property taxes. High fire taxes. And don’t get me started on the saber-toothed tiger tax rate! The way to make the masses behave is to make them suffer... but only the “masses”.

 

[SteveK]

They taxed and taxed and taxed. High cave property taxes. High fire taxes. And don’t get me started on the saber-toothed tiger tax rate! The way to make the masses behave is to make them suffer... but only the “masses”.

 

[CharlieO.]

Will my carbon footprint be smaller on a 45 ft. 35 year old trawler when we jump to full time in a few years than in my 50 year old house in the Northeast U.S. with 6 motorcycles in the garage and two cars in the driveway?


I gotta think my carbon footprint will be smaller. Everyone just has to look at their own circle and ask where can I reduce, reuse and recycle? I'm not on either side of the climate debate, I can think and self evaluate my environment.



I've seen it with my own eyes, people driving their big SUVs, to a town meeting to oppose a drilling rig in the water across the bay from town. They didn't want to drill just wet storage if I remember correctly.

 

[localboy]

Hmmm

isn't it just a teeny, tiny bit hypocritical for anyone on the one hand feel with their heart of hearts that fossile fuels are causing all the bad things i hear by some on this thread, and at the same time be on a forum that is devoted to a pasttime that is only possible by causing this great harm to our planet and humanity?

Do as I say; not as I do.

I promise that if I personally believed that I was doing something that was causing others, or our panet direct, irreversible harm I would stop doing that thing immediately.

It’s called integrity. But alas, not a trait that every person possesses.

 

[CaptTom]

I mean, if anyone here really believed that CO2 was killing the planet, wouldn't we all be on the Sailing Forum, instead of the Trawler Forum?

I can disprove that pretty easily. I accept the reality of CO2 data, and do what I can to help, but I'm not going back to live in a cave, unless everyone else does, too. Whether I have a sailboat or trawler isn't going to change anything. But I can advocate and vote for policies which move us all forward.

Source

I did follow your source link. First thing I noticed was that it was a "for kids" page.

Next, this, under the chart:
"These graphs are based on the Vostok ice core from Antarctica. They do not include the most recent increases in carbon dioxide and temperature caused by humans. Notice the strong connection between carbon dioxide and temperature. "

The point of the chart wasn't to disprove anthropomorphic climate change, but to show that, when we change CO2 concentration, we change the climate. There are multiple links to explain more. And there's another pair of charts:

You may note that the CO2 concentration chart starts out well above the highest value in the one you posted, above. Also, there's this caption:
"Greenhouse gases are at record levels in the atmosphere. For hundreds of thousands of years, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere stayed between 200 and 300 parts per million. Today, it's up to nearly 400 parts per million, and the amount is still rising. Along with other greenhouse gases, this extra carbon dioxide is trapping heat and causing the climate to change.

Seems like a pretty iron-clad case to me.

It's always easy to cherry-pick just the one data point which supports one's own position.

 

[SteveK]

...........

I did follow your source link. First thing I noticed was that it was a "for kids" page.

..................

It's always easy to cherry-pick just the one data point which supports one's own position.

Congratulations,
I see you were able to cherry pick to prove your position. Fact remains it is not the only opinion out there. I thought the kids page would be easier reading for some who are screaming the sky is falling.
We will run out of oil before the planet implodes.

 

[Group9]

I can disprove that pretty easily. I accept the reality of CO2 data, and do what I can to help, but I'm not going back to live in a cave, unless everyone else does, too. Whether I have a sailboat or trawler isn't going to change anything. But I can advocate and vote for policies which move us all forward.



I did follow your source link. First thing I noticed was that it was a "for kids" page.

Next, this, under the chart:
"These graphs are based on the Vostok ice core from Antarctica. They do not include the most recent increases in carbon dioxide and temperature caused by humans. Notice the strong connection between carbon dioxide and temperature. "

The point of the chart wasn't to disprove anthropomorphic climate change, but to show that, when we change CO2 concentration, we change the climate. There are multiple links to explain more. And there's another pair of charts:

You may note that the CO2 concentration chart starts out well above the highest value in the one you posted, above. Also, there's this caption:
"Greenhouse gases are at record levels in the atmosphere. For hundreds of thousands of years, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere stayed between 200 and 300 parts per million. Today, it's up to nearly 400 parts per million, and the amount is still rising. Along with other greenhouse gases, this extra carbon dioxide is trapping heat and causing the climate to change.

Seems like a pretty iron-clad case to me.

It's always easy to cherry-pick just the one data point which supports one's own position.

Well, that certainly makes it easier, if none of us have to actually do anything about this climate change thing but to complain about it. I can sure do that just as well as Kerry or Leonardo, even if I don't have a private jet.

 

[Codger2]

I guess I will just leave the engine alone. SHRUG
I do like the idea of going faster than 8 knots when necessary.
.

I did too, Dan & it had nothing to do with tying to outrun weather!
It had a lot to do with being able to go in a smaller weather window and most importantly, the ability of the boat to smooth out the ride by increasing the speed a little.

 

[rslifkin]

I did too, Dan & it had nothing to do with tying to outrun weather!
It had a lot to do with being able to go in a smaller weather window and most importantly, the ability of the boat to smooth out the ride by increasing the speed a little.

The smaller weather window thing is a big one. The last trip we took had a first leg of 49nm. For us, that's 7.5 hours at slow cruise (~6.5 kts). We delayed our departure a day due to weather. However, seas were still a bit rougher than we wanted the next morning. So we kept waiting. By early afternoon, things had calmed enough that we were happy to go. Got off the dock around 3:30 PM. Running at slow cruise, we would have arrived well after dark (11 PM) and the lock we needed to go through to reach the spot we intended to stay would have been closed for the night. So instead, I just pushed the fuel consumption levers forward and covered the 49nm run in just under 3 hours. Arrived before dark, locked through, tied up, and had a nice dinner on the balcony of a local restaurant while watching the sunset. In that case, the extra 50 gallons of fuel burned was well worth it.

 

[Codger2]

The smaller weather window thing is a big one. The last trip we took had a first leg of 49nm...... We delayed our departure a day due to weather. ....... By early afternoon, things had calmed enough that we were happy to go....... Running at slow cruise, we would have arrived well after dark ...... So instead, I just pushed the fuel consumption levers forward and covered the 49nm run in just under 3 hours..

That's exactly what I was trying to point out! Having that extra speed is really nice...you don't have to use it but it's there when you want it!