Recreational Boating & the Green Movement

[Benthic2]

If going green is "all PR" then why are:

The polar ice caps shrinking
Glaciers are disappearing
Floods/Droughts more common
Hurricanes more frequent and stronger
Animal migration parterns changing
Plants blossoming earlier/dying later each year
Forrest fires more common
Beetles that used to be held in check by winter are destroying vast swaths of evergreen forrests.

These are all very real, and even if you don't care about the planet, these things will effect your insurance cost, food prices, wine availability, and health care costs.

 

[OldDan1943]

As a retired professional forester I will answer one of your comments.
We will always have forest fires. If the environmentalist would allow control burns then, then those forest fires would be smaller. "They" shout "air quality" and when there is a major fire, "they" are strangely quiet.
Trees are a cheap carbon storage method. When they burn, all the stored carbon is released. "They are strangely quiet."
Beetles attack 'stressed' trees first, the beetle population increases to the point where they can attack healthier trees. We know we can reduce the 'stress' by keeping forest healthy. We need to harvest and replant more acreage each year and thinning as necessary

Remember, earth is millions of years old. We have about 200 years of weather records.
When the ice cap melts we are find 'remains' from 50,000+ years ago.

 

[CaptTom]

The big hassle is once the Gov decides to pump cash into a project , it becomes "the way"and experimenting any other way doesn't happen.

A great example is space launches where private , for profit ,competition is on the way to reduce launch costs to 1/100 per pound.

But they did it with money from government contracts. In fact, I'd point to NASA as a success story. Only the government had the resources, motivation and risk tolerance to compete in a "space race." And along the way, they invented all kinds of new technologies. Next, the government stepped back and contracted out to players like SpaceX to bring innovation and efficiencies. Ultimately SpaceX and others have started or will start making money outside their government contracts.

I contend you need government to assume the initial risk, and provide the initial seed money, for something as big as space exploration. Same goes for wind, solar and other so-called "green" technologies. Once government has primed the pump, private industry will take over. Some of that government money will be "wasted" on bad ideas and failed business models. But even that has value. The good ideas and sound businesses will succeed.

 

[Codger2]

Do you have a 12vt fridge or do you use ice?
When I looked at the list options, one could drop at least another $8K.
May I ask, what is the base price of the boat with extra batteries?

The fridge is an Isotherm 12/120v and is almost too cold! AGM batteries were an additional $2,500.00 but IMHO, well worth it. I'm fully aware that this is not a trawler but if you want to continue safely with your passion for boating, the Duffy is almost impossible to beat for economy.

 

[OldDan1943]

The fridge is an Isotherm 12/120v and is almost too cold! AGM batteries were an additional $2,500.00 but IMHO, well worth it. I'm fully aware that this is not a trawler but if you want to continue safely with your passion for boating, the Duffy is almost impossible to beat for economy.

Yup, a great looking day boat!!!
I'll bet people smile and wave as you go by.
How far out do you go and where do you put the fishing rods?

You could extend the range by towing a dingy with a generator. TEASE

 

[Art]

Yup, a great looking day boat!!!
I'll bet people smile and wave as you go by.
How far out do you go and where do you put the fishing rods?

You could extend the range by towing a dingy with a generator. TEASE

Personally... I love rowing!

 

[CaptTom]

As demand goes down when homes, cars, ships and engines etc. become more efficient, demand will also go down and prices will follow. I think the remaining dependent uses will benefit by lower prices.

I suspect it'll go the other way. As gasoline and diesel become niche markets, the price will go up. It's only the enormous scale of the industry that's keeping prices relatively low. Even milk costs more per gallon right now, and that's far easier to extract.

Duffy boats have been sold for over 50 years (Approx 13,000) and believe me, they have solved a lot of manufacturing problems & have made owning a day cruising boat effortless!

Those are great boats. I always thought they'd make a great 6-pack harbor cruise charter.

 

[skyhawk]

As a retired professional forester I will answer one of your comments.
We will always have forest fires. If the environmentalist would allow control burns then, then those forest fires would be smaller. "They" shout "air quality" and when there is a major fire, "they" are strangely quiet.
Trees are a cheap carbon storage method. When they burn, all the stored carbon is released. "They are strangely quiet."
Beetles attack 'stressed' trees first, the beetle population increases to the point where they can attack healthier trees. We know we can reduce the 'stress' by keeping forest healthy. We need to harvest and replant more acreage each year and thinning as necessary

Remember, earth is millions of years old. We have about 200 years of weather records.
When the ice cap melts we are find 'remains' from 50,000+ years ago.

one thing I think that gets overlooked about controlled burns.
It seem "artificial and manmade" and so at first glance might seem bad
but really isn't really just replacing the much more frequent small fires that would be happening all the time if we weren't even here, naturally thinning things?

Several years ago when I was active in my son's cub scout pack, we had a very nice tour of a managed forest by a guy from the state forest service. That really opened my eyes to how the forest should look...

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Which “environmental” organizations are advocating against prescribed fire?

 

[Open-d]

original poster here. The thread got off topic and we appreciate your reply to our original questions. We had not considered the med. We'll do some reading on the subject.

Interesting the many assumptions we've read so far about us but we'll try to clarify for those addressing our original post. We're both 49 and planning to retire between 52 and 55 pending our health insurance coverage options prior to medicare. We do a lot of boating now on the chesapeake in a 35' express with twin crusaders. Our concerns aren't focused on saving the world or going green. We like to think we do our part. We would love to cruise thru our 50's and longer and were wondering what peoples thoughts were on the impact of this energy shift and recreational boating. We will have a comfortable retirement financially but don't want to put a large chunk of cash into a boat if an experienced community like this felt the future of recreational boating was bleak. That's all, nothing political and not trying to stir things up. Still interested in your thoughts though and thanks for an interesting thread so far!

10-4

 

[Codger2]

Those are great boats. I always thought they'd make a great 6-pack harbor cruise charter.

They do exactly that in Mission Bay & Newport Beach.

Guys, let me make my decision crystal clear! I don't think my Duffy is a replacement for the 10 other boats I've had since 1995. Loved my 54' Sport Fisher & my 48' Off Shore Yacht fisher but my all time favorite is the Ocean Alexander 42 Sedan. Twin 440hp diesels, 20 knots of speed & a great SoCal cruiser. At 80, I've really slowed down, not wanting to do the maintenance that's required to keep the boat in top shape & tired of the associated costs (Property tax,diesel, big slip fees, expensive maintenance, etc. This Duffy keeps me on the water (San Diego Bay only) with a tiny fraction of the costs & maintenance problem my much larger diesel boats had.

 

[OldDan1943]

Which “environmental” organizations are advocating against prescribed fire?

LOL These groups are alive and well living in the California and other places. They are the 'tree huggers" aka, dont cut a tree down, no control burns, dont drive your car, buy an electric car because the dont pollute etc, which is a crock of crap.

 

[markpierce]

They do exactly that in Mission Bay & Newport Beach.

Guys, let me make my decision crystal clear! I don't think my Duffy is a replacement for the 10 other boats I've had since 1995. Loved my 54' Sport Fisher & my 48' Off Shore Yacht fisher but my all time favorite is the Ocean Alexander 42 Sedan. Twin 440hp diesels, 20 knots of speed & a great SoCal cruiser. At 80, I've really slowed down, not wanting to do the maintenance that's required to keep the boat in top shape & tired of the associated costs (Property tax,diesel, big slip fees, expensive maintenance, etc. This Duffy keeps me on the water (San Diego Bay only) with a tiny fraction of the costs & maintenance problem my much larger diesel boats had.

That's growing old gracefully.

 

[markpierce]

How many "greeners" have given up their mechanical dinghys and moved to sail and oars? ... When will it be when we are forced to give up "wealthy" livings like heating, air conditioning, frozen foods, meat, plastics, travel, etcetera?

Earth would be better off if 90 percent of humans disappeared. Who will volunteer?

 

[OldDan1943]

How many "greeners" have given up their mechanical dinghys and moved to sail and oars? ... When will it be when we are forced to give up "wealthy" livings like heating, air conditioning, frozen foods, meat, plastics, travel, etcetera?

Earth would be better of if 90 percent of humans disappeared. Who will volunteer?

I volunteer the other guy.

 

[Giggitoni]

As a retired professional forester I will answer one of your comments.
We will always have forest fires. If the environmentalist would allow control burns then, then those forest fires would be smaller. "They" shout "air quality" and when there is a major fire, "they" are strangely quiet.
Trees are a cheap carbon storage method. When they burn, all the stored carbon is released. "They are strangely quiet."
Beetles attack 'stressed' trees first, the beetle population increases to the point where they can attack healthier trees. We know we can reduce the 'stress' by keeping forest healthy. We need to harvest and replant more acreage each year and thinning as necessary

Remember, earth is millions of years old. We have about 200 years of weather records.
When the ice cap melts we are find 'remains' from 50,000+ years ago.

I agree with what you wrote. Just thought I should say the earth is actually about 4.5 billion years old...

 

[OldDan1943]

I agree with what you wrote. Just thought I should say the earth is actually about 4.5 billion years old...

LOL, okay I can accept that.
If I said, 4.5 billion years old, someone would say, "Prove it" LOL
We can agree, the earth is really really really old.
If we took the age of everyone here, added it all together, the earth is much older than the total years of everyone here.

 

[Art]

How many "greeners" have given up their mechanical dinghys and moved to sail and oars? ... When will it be when we are forced to give up "wealthy" livings like heating, air conditioning, frozen foods, meat, plastics, travel, etcetera?

Earth would be better of if 90 percent of humans disappeared. Who will volunteer?

Our 97 year old matriarch is a concerned citizen for her great grand kids future. I feel she would volunteer... once the time is right and that sort of things needs to be done. However... I doubt she'll live that long!! LOL

 

[markpierce]

Our 97 year old matriarch is a concerned citizen for her great grand kids future. I feel she would volunteer... once the time is right and that sort of things needs to be done. However... I doubt she'll live that long!! LOL

True "greeners" should be against modern medicine in order to reduce the excess population. Except for modern medicine, I'd be blind and on my bad-heart death bed.

 

[OldDan1943]

A tree 'greenie' might say, "Do as I say, not as I do."
They might insist on, never putting out forest fires, too.
"Dont eat meat, eat the plants." but, no one asks the plants how they feel about this.

In case you haven't figured it out, I am real tired of the "holier than thou" folks.

 

[Art]

True "greeners" should be against modern medicine in order to reduce the excess population. Except for modern medicine, I'd be blind and on my bad-heart death bed.

If not for modern medicine my wife would be gone! I appreciate medical improvements.

To amply lower world population count is a really BIG, Elusive and at least [hopefully] a fairly long term project.

Read "The Edict" by Max Ehrlich

 

[SteveK]

A tree 'greenie' might say, "Do as I say, not as I do."
They might insist on, never putting out forest fires, too.
"Dont eat meat, eat the plants." but, no one asks the plants how they feel about this.

In case you haven't figured it out, I am real tired of the "holier than thou" folks.

Can I get an Amen.

 

[FF]

"In case you haven't figured it out, I am real tired of the "holier than thou" folks."

The hassle is their opinion is their Religion , so like the Taliban they are willing to destroy you.

As you are EVIL as you do not believe what they believe.

Watch TV the week after the super bowl to find out how evil you are.

 

[JLD]

Well, it has been an interesting thread, at least up to post #221.

After that, not so much.

Jim

 

[OldDan1943]

As you are EVIL as you do not believe what they believe.

I admit it, by their definition, I am a very "evil" person.
The question is, will they even miss me when I take the 'dirt nap'?
Let's be honest, I have less influence than one grain of sand. No one will wake up the day after I die and say, "Environmentally speaking, the world is a better place w/o Dan."

Okay, I'm finished/done. Just dont provoke me.

 

[Art]

I admit it, by their definition, I am a very "evil" person.
The question is, will they even miss me when I take the 'dirt nap'?
Let's be honest, I have less influence than one grain of sand. No one will wake up the day after I die and say, "Environmentally speaking, the world is a better place w/o Dan."

Okay, I'm finished/done. Just dont provoke me.

Dan - Will a joke provoke??

Old man asks grand daughter... When I die will you make sure I get buried deep?

GD says... FK NO you right wing old shat!

End of joke!! :lol:

 

[Codger2]

I agree with what you wrote. Just thought I should say the earth is actually about 4.5 billion years old...

 

[Art]

Hope all can get this: "Billion Year Journey of Earth's Tectonic Plates" from NY Times


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/06/...te=1&user_id=e57d7e22d28cfea4b2f94792300c2167

 

[CaptTom]

Well, it has been an interesting thread, at least up to post #221.

OK, good point. We'r all pretty much saying the same thing anyway.

So, back to that beautiful Duffy...

... This Duffy keeps me on the water (San Diego Bay only) with a tiny fraction of the costs & maintenance problem my much larger diesel boats had.

You're my hero. When I reach that point, I want something exactly like that Duffy. Just putt around whatever harbor/bay/river I'm at. But I guess it doesn't "putt." Maybe "whir?"

My other thought was the same hull, but steam powered. It would be fun polishing and running an old steam engine. Think a smaller "African Queen." And if I used wood for fuel, that's a carbon-neutral renewable so I'd still be "green."

 

[Art]

OK, good point. We'r all pretty much saying the same thing anyway.

So, back to that beautiful Duffy...



You're my hero. When I reach that point, I want something exactly like that Duffy. Just putt around whatever harbor/bay/river I'm at. But I guess it doesn't "putt." Maybe "whir?"

My other thought was the same hull, but steam powered. It would be fun polishing and running an old steam engine. Think a smaller "African Queen." And if I used wood for fuel, that's a carbon-neutral renewable so I'd still be "green."

ROW... Row, Row your boat! Stay in condition, live longer - That's my plan... when the time comes!! Currently my workout room works just fine!