Sail to power transition

[slmandel]

So glad to discover this thread. We are lifelong sailors transitioning to power for convenience and speed. We do weekends and short weeks to the channel islands from Los Angeles. We are opting for mid-teens cruising speed to reduce transit time to the islands.

 

[trawlercap]

After 40 years sailing, 6 to 8 knots pointed right where you want to go is a real pleasure.

 

[Jeff F]

The only time a sailboat I was on went that speed was downhill on an offshore wave when storm force winds came up behind us.

Heh. My tastes and budget has led me to high performance sail and low performance power. Top speed and average speed are higher on my sailboat than my trawler under ideal conditions.

But ideal conditions are rare. It's probably only one day out of twenty underway in my trawler that I think I'd rather be sailing, and most of the time I'll get there faster in a straight line.

 

[Captgary175]

Sailboat, motorboat, motor home, rest home. It's the natural progression. That being said, I moved from a 39 ft Pearson sailboat to a 40 ft Transpacific trawler in 2019 and couldn't be happier. Went from an average cruising speed of 5 or 6 kts to 7 or 8 kts. It doesn't sound like much, but it is a significant change (psychologically if nothing else). I've never needed or wished for more speed. Displacement or semidisplacement diesel trawlers tend to hold their value as good or better than many other types of boats.

 

[Moonfish]

When we went from full keel sail to full displacement power we went from averaging 5.5 kts to 7 kts. We thought we were going really fast!

It's such a personal choice, whether to go slow or fast(er). We love the stability and quiet nature of cruising in our Cheoy Lee 46. Our twin FL120s at that cruising speed are so unobtrusive, relatively speaking. That, and we only burn 1.8 gph total, so we don't really worry about fuel prices so much.

And although we've been in 55mph winds and some pretty uncomfortable sea conditions (Strait of Georgia and Strait of Juan de Fuca...), it's been our own doing. So we've never really needed to "outrun" weather here is the protected waters of the Salish Sea.

 

[Moonfish]

After 40 years sailing, 6 to 8 knots pointed right where you want to go is a real pleasure.

That is an EXCELLENT point!

Although with our round-bottomed hull we have been forced to "tack" on occasion in order to make things more comfortable underway. But, as always, the boat can take more than the crew...

 

[Stonechamps]

another option

Plenty said here about fuel consumption...we were looking to switch from sail to power a few years ago and went through the same conundrum displacement vs semi planing...landed in the middle with a Bruckmann 50 motorsailer. Quite pleased to find that it does both things pretty well...we can chug along at 8 knots sipping 1.5 to 2 g p/hr and uf needed catch a lock or tidal race by pushing 10. When the wind is working for us (which means 60 degrees or more because gentlemen don't sail to windward) she hits 7-9 knots or more without a fuss. With big pilot house we have all the advantages of power boat life above the waterline and protection against the elements. I like having 2 modes of propulsion and the pleasure of running with the wind when it's available. A compromise that I resisted for a long time but happy I made in the end.

 

[slmandel]

Thanks for the welcome. Now I have a question. Please tell me how to post it so as to get the best response. Should this question be on a different thread? The question: I am in contract to buy a 2005 Meridian 459. The generator, an Onan 2005 9KW with 113 hours, would not start during survey. Repair or replace? Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Thanks for the welcome. Now I have a question. Please tell me how to post it so as to get the best response. Should this question be on a different thread? The question: I am in contract to buy a 2005 Meridian 459. The generator, an Onan 2005 9KW with 113 hours, would not start during survey. Repair or replace? Thanks in advance for your comments.

Need more information. "would not start" covers a lot of possibilities.


Repair:

Starter solenoid doesn't click -- check wiring, both heavy and to "ignition" switch

Solenoid clicks, but starter doesn't make any sound -- check wires solenoid to starter, maybe replace brushes or starter

Starter turns but engine doesn't start -- send injectors out for test



Starter tries, but can't turn engine - remove injectors, look for water.
Can the starter turn the engine with the injectors out?
If there's water, pump it out and lubricate - change oil a couple of times.


If the diesel won't turn with the injectors out (try a bar on the shaft), then if the diesel has replaceable cylinder liners it may be possible to rebuild cheaper than replacing.



Jim

 

[hgd]

We are a family of sailors thinking to transition to power. We recently retired, and tried to do some overnight trips with our daysailer. But, well, it's a daysailer. So we are looking for a 40(ish) foot displacement power cruiser suitable for coastal cruising in LI Sound and ME coast. We're here to learn and connect...

Anybody have any thoughts on "the need for speed?" We are very happy moving at 6-8 knots, but worry that we might "need" more speed from time to time, and for resale (not for a while, but boats are expensive, right?...) Happened to see a thread here about Linssen boats (really nice steel boats from Holland) and I wondered if their max speed of 8 knots is what prevented them from getting popular here...

A sailor considering switching to cruising on a trawler might be interested in my plight to replicate that which I had with a cruising sailboat but in a trawler. Check out :

https:/mvkiwi.com

 

[Kit_L]

Our vessel can cruise at 15kn, but we almost never do. I bought Suu Kyi thinking that for the first time, I would be able to go fast if I needed to (previous boats were between 40–49 feet, and full displacement), but now that we live aboard full time, we find that most of the time we 'slow cruise' at 6–8kn (two KAD 300s, legs, and at 1,500rpm on two engines at 6.5kn, uses 10 litres/hr; open to 2,000 rpm, she does 8.5kn using 24 litres/hr).

The only times we go faster than these speeds is if we find ourselves in confused seas—the ride improves dramatically at 13–14kn, but the fuel burn increase dramatically, too—to 70 litres/hr.

My wife simply prefers the view and the experience at the slower speeds, so that is what we do.

Cats have great internal space; we have an excellent electric galley, and two cabins. Manoeuvring is precise; but marina berths cost ~50% more because of being a cat (our beam is exactly 5.0m, but marina owners only see her as a cat!).

 

[slmandel]

Need more information. "would not start" covers a lot of possibilities.


Repair:

Starter solenoid doesn't click -- check wiring, both heavy and to "ignition" switch

Solenoid clicks, but starter doesn't make any sound -- check wires solenoid to starter, maybe replace brushes or starter

Starter turns but engine doesn't start -- send injectors out for test



Starter tries, but can't turn engine - remove injectors, look for water.
Can the starter turn the engine with the injectors out?
If there's water, pump it out and lubricate - change oil a couple of times.


If the diesel won't turn with the injectors out (try a bar on the shaft), then if the diesel has replaceable cylinder liners it may be possible to rebuild cheaper than replacing.



Jim

Thanks Jim,
9KW onan driven by a 3 cylinder Kubota. Repeatedly starts, runs about 30", sensor shuts it down for "over heat." Heat gun shows no heat. Change sensor and get same response. There is much trouble shooting/repair that could be done. My choice is to go forward with repair of this 18 year old, essentially unused, genset or to get a 50-60% credit towards a new genset. Your thoughts?

 

[Circumnavigator]

The only time a sailboat I was on went that speed was downhill on an offshore wave when storm force winds came up behind us.

Our best 24 hour's run on our circumnav was 224 miles = 9.3 knots. 20 knots of wind on the quarter, relatively calm seas.


Jim

 

[Circumnavigator]

Thanks Jim,
9KW onan driven by a 3 cylinder Kubota. Repeatedly starts, runs about 30", sensor shuts it down for "over heat." Heat gun shows no heat. Change sensor and get same response. There is much trouble shooting/repair that could be done. My choice is to go forward with repair of this 18 year old, essentially unused, genset or to get a 50-60% credit towards a new genset. Your thoughts?

It is obviously not overheated after 30 seconds, so it's a control problem, which should be fairly easy to fix. It's unlikely that two sensors are bad, but it is possible.



Overheat sensors can work two ways -- (a) normally open, and grounded when it gets hot or (b) normally closed and opens on overheat. Check the wiring diagram to see which and then the two sensors to see that they are in the correct sense when cold.


Aside from having two bad sensors (unlikely but not impossible), if (a), then I'd look to see if the connecting wire was chafed through and grounded. If (b), the wire might have a loose connection. In either case there might be a bad relay in the control box, or a bad control circuit board.


This seems to me definitely a problem which can be fixed easily by someone who knows Onan (not me), perhaps even by someone here.


Jim

 

[CarlF]

Fifteen years ago I tried going from sailboat to planing trawler. Sold the boat six months later and bought a motorsailer.

The problem is that planing on an 40ft boat isn’t comfortable in even a small offshore sea. There’s a lot of noise, slamming over waves, and spray covering the windows with salt. It’s hard to walk around or go to the head without slowing down. My wife hated it.

Worse, a planing hull design often isn’t good at a comfortable 7-8kts. The bow goes up and there’s a big wake. It’s designed to “get up on plane”

The trip becomes about “getting there” rather than an “enjoying the journey”

Even if you run slowly, high horsepower engines are MUCH more expensive to maintain than little sailboat/trawler diesels and few owners do their own work. Check the cost of an impeller.

The only caution for a sailor moving to a displacement trawler is they roll offshore. There’s no sail pressure to keep it steady. I have trawler owning friends who dread offshore trip like going to Maine because of the roll. So in shopping I’d ask questions about how much it rolls. Boats with flatter aft sections typically roll less.

Of course, stabilizers fix the problem but they are expensive and break down frequently.


Finally, I would think many times before buying a steel boat. My steel boat owning friends are constantly checking for rust, grinding down to bright metal, and repainting. And his boat is less than 10 years old. If you live on the boat full time, you can keep up with the rust but that doesn’t sound like you.

 

[slowgoesit]

Thanks Jim,
9KW onan driven by a 3 cylinder Kubota. Repeatedly starts, runs about 30", sensor shuts it down for "over heat." Heat gun shows no heat. Change sensor and get same response. There is much trouble shooting/repair that could be done. My choice is to go forward with repair of this 18 year old, essentially unused, genset or to get a 50-60% credit towards a new genset. Your thoughts?

Unless the generator not running was disclosed prior to your making your offer, I would suggest two options to the seller:

1. Get the generator running, and putting out full output with clean bill of health prior to the sale or
2. Reduce price price of boat commiserate with cost of a new generator, including installation.

I suspect it's something simple, like a faulty sensor or faulty wiring, BUT, barring first hand knowledge, I'd want to know I could return the boat to the condition it was advertised in (functioning generator) without paying extra $$$.
Seller may settle with somewhat less than full replacement cost . . . that's up to you, and your comfort zone . . . . Best of luck in whatever you decide, and please let us know what happens!

Now back to the original post. We have a stink pot. We DON'T go fast, (6.5 to 7kts), but we've done that for the last 5,500 miles or so since we bought her three years ago.

We don't mind going "slow", and we burn 2.7gph at that speed . . . . with a 90,000 lb boat. We're okay with that.
And we can point in the direction we want to make good!

 

[Pascall]

Fifteen years ago I tried going from sailboat to planing trawler. Sold the boat six months later and bought a motorsailer.

The problem is that planing on an 40ft boat isn’t comfortable in even a small offshore sea. There’s a lot of noise, slamming over waves, and spray covering the windows with salt. It’s hard to walk around or go to the head without slowing down. My wife hated it.

Worse, a planing hull design often isn’t good at a comfortable 7-8kts. The bow goes up and there’s a big wake. It’s designed to “get up on plane”

The trip becomes about “getting there” rather than an “enjoying the journey”

Even if you run slowly, high horsepower engines are MUCH more expensive to maintain than little sailboat/trawler diesels and few owners do their own work. Check the cost of an impeller.

The only caution for a sailor moving to a displacement trawler is they roll offshore. There’s no sail pressure to keep it steady. I have trawler owning friends who dread offshore trip like going to Maine because of the roll. So in shopping I’d ask questions about how much it rolls. Boats with flatter aft sections typically roll less.

Of course, stabilizers fix the problem but they are expensive and break down frequently.


Finally, I would think many times before buying a steel boat. My steel boat owning friends are constantly checking for rust, grinding down to bright metal, and repainting. And his boat is less than 10 years old. If you live on the boat full time, you can keep up with the rust but that doesn’t sound like you.

We have had a steel boat for 27 years and spend about one day a year on rust pretense.
That is much less than many people who polish their polyester etcher, which in the end only lasts a few months.
Every 7 years or so I repaint the boat, 2 days of work and then it stays in mint condition for at least 5 years.
We are always in the water, summer and winter and always in the salt water.
Crucially, the boat must be properly constructed from the start with a good paint system!

Mvg,

Pascal.

 

[Don L]

As a sailor who has been considering the change to trawler I haven't checked this thread in weeks. It seemed it became mostly about speed. For me changing to power has to be waaaaay more just speed.

 

[Bob328]

After 50 years of owning and sailing boats, we bought a Marine Trader 34DC. My wife has a bad knee and just didn't feel safe on a heeling deck. After traveling more than 3,000 miles at 7 knots from Wisconsin to St Augustine, she is just in love. Likes the view from the flybridge and as previously mentioned, the ability to point directly to intended port. She was ecstatic when we were able to drive from lower inside helm during severe thunder storms on Cape Fear! When it was 93 degrees outside, being able run air conditioning while driving was great. When the Admiral is happy, the atmosphere on the boat is always brighter. We learned that as long as we didn't travel offshore too far, we were always only a short run to the next inlet if weather turned sour. I miss sailing at timees, but no regrets.

 

[Cedar22]

Sail to Power

We also were sail and age and agility caused us to go to power in the 40 ft. range and in the Long Island Sound to Maine (and further east) geography. We opted for the Nordic Tugs 37 (2008 model, now the 40) and loved it for over ten years. Speed going to and from Maine became an issue and we sold the NT 37 and bought a Back Cove 37 (now for sale in mint condition and very low engine hours). Almost immediately regretted that move and wished we had retained the NT 37 (now 40). NT's are very well made, good seaworthy design, cruises at 8-10 kts efficiently and can speed to 17 kts if necessary (and you own an oil well). It had tons of room (but limited guest cabin), lots of available storage, 380 hp Cummins diesel (plenty sufficient and very reliable), and the looks definitely grew on us. We were out sometimes caught in pretty stiff weather 70 miles off Boston and well north of Cape Cod and found that it only got a bit uncomfortable in serious beam seas when it did roll. Found out that the Cummins electronics shut the engine down to idle in too serious a roll and the oil pump found a bubble or two, but it immediately came back to running RPM when the oil sump got straight oil! Highly recommend looking at Nordic Tugs in whatever size suits you. Great owners group and wisdom (best in the industry), terrific dealer (Wilde Yachts) in Essex, CT, and owners group rendezvous every year in the NE. Good luck!

 

[PNK]

sail to power transition

Welcome to the forum. You might want to take a look at the Elling models, also made in Holland, but FRP hulls rather than steel. There seem to be a lot of them around lately, with a fair number of used ones available. Their E3 model is right within the size-range you are interested in...
Looking at the all the options out there should be a lot of fun....

Peter

 

[Nomad Willy]

Choice to convert sailboat to trawler

The boat

Sailboats are at first looking much the same. But they are not.

Looking for a sailboat to convert should be an exercise in form and shape study.
Most modern sailboats are very pointy in the bows wide amidships and often to mostly skinny (slack) in the stern too. This is the formula for low drag but only at very slow speeds. Many have pronounced wakes when the breeze picks up but don’t be fooled. The energy is there and it creates a handsome wake but don’t be fooled .. the speed is usually not there.

The most important thing to look for in a sailboat to convert is full ends … kinda fat in the bow and stern. As the bow pushes the water aside there is much more time for the bow wave to move aside, hit static water and bounce back. But the stern is wider and further back so the returning bow wave has more time to rise up under the stern and hopefully lift and push the boat forward. You need length and fullness at the ends for the above dynamics to work to your benefit.

Sounds simple enough. Just find a sailboat full at the ends, get out your tools and convert. I looked for such a boat for some time and failed. Bought a Willard Trawler. Found one rather suitable sailboat to convert. A 27’ Albin w a fairly wide bow but something would have to be done about the rudder location. It’s ahead of the prop.

 

[FWT]

On the issue of high fuel burn at 15 knots vs low burn at 7 knots.

If still working you often have more money than time.

Retired you often have more time than money.

Just one small part of the equation of what makes sense for YOU.

 

[Hippocampus]

When going through the transition wanted blue water power. Every cruiser I respected said go SD not FD if you’re going to be coastal only. You’ll want to make that bridge or lock. You’ll want to speed up to improve the ride. You’ll want to make land fall with sunlight. You’ll need to dodge an idiot. You’ll time things wrong for one reason or another and go the wrong way in current. You’ll want to “get her done”.
Yes we go 7kts or even 6 a lot but often when wanting to just make tracks like doing the ICW run 8-10 when safe. Its going the 17kts that empties the bank account quickly so do that extremely rarely.
Now a couple of years in our new to us tug I’m real glad it’s an SD generously powered. Fuel hasn’t been the major expense. Restoration, berthing, insurance and such has. Would think long and hard about your actual use pattern. If going P’Town southwest harbor FD is just fine and may actually be better. But if bopping around LIS, Buzzards, Naragansett Bay and the islands SD maybe a better fit. If longer cruises in protected and coastal waters such as snowbirding is in your future have found I’m glad to be on SD.

 

[Bacchus]

Thanks for the welcome. Now I have a question. Please tell me how to post it so as to get the best response. Should this question be on a different thread? The question: I am in contract to buy a 2005 Meridian 459. The generator, an Onan 2005 9KW with 113 hours, would not start during survey. Repair or replace? Thanks in advance for your comments.

You will get better answers by starting a new thread with a clear titlevrelative to your question.

 

[Kit_L]

I think Don means, "with a clear title relevant to your question". I agree with him.

 

[slowgoesit]

The boat

Sailboats are at first looking much the same. But they are not.

Looking for a sailboat to convert should be an exercise in form and shape study.
Most modern sailboats are very pointy in the bows wide amidships and often to mostly skinny (slack) in the stern too. This is the formula for low drag but only at very slow speeds. Many have pronounced wakes when the breeze picks up but don’t be fooled. The energy is there and it creates a handsome wake but don’t be fooled .. the speed is usually not there.

The most important thing to look for in a sailboat to convert is full ends … kinda fat in the bow and stern. As the bow pushes the water aside there is much more time for the bow wave to move aside, hit static water and bounce back. But the stern is wider and further back so the returning bow wave has more time to rise up under the stern and hopefully lift and push the boat forward. You need length and fullness at the ends for the above dynamics to work to your benefit.

Sounds simple enough. Just find a sailboat full at the ends, get out your tools and convert. I looked for such a boat for some time and failed. Bought a Willard Trawler. Found one rather suitable sailboat to convert. A 27’ Albin w a fairly wide bow but something would have to be done about the rudder location. It’s ahead of the prop.

Eric, I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about switching over from sailing to power, ie; different boats, NOT converting an existing sail boat into a power boat.