SeaPiper

[DavidU]

Thoughts, questions, concerns?

I am intrigued by this boat to the point of possibly buying one. I come to the experts to flesh out pros and cons. I recognize many of the limitations but am interested in y’all’s thoughts. I am considering several other brands but really “think” I like this boat enough to seriously include it.

Intended cruising is east coast in and potentially Bahamas. Home port Beaufort, NC. This would be a couples only boat, me and a buddy, or me and my dog. Odds are, wife and I would never cruise for more than 3 weeks at a time and that’s probably a stretch. Myself, possibly longer but don’t see the same issues potentially if it were the 2 of us, i.e, I’m a simpleton.

A huge plus in my book is I could also put a SeaPiper in one of my boat lifts and it’s trailerable. Both those features could be really really nice. There are many obvious concerns with such a narrow boat but that’s certainly a plus too. The boat is simply cool to me. Lots of cachet for sure, and no one says it will be the last boat, maybe just the next. Might name it “Interim”. Those things said, this forum is filled with many experts with the ability to flesh out issues that I have not yet thought of. That’s why I’m here, and why I ask.

 

[DDW]

You are going to get a lot of opinions on that boat. I like it, if they offered a more normal deck and plan I'd probably own one by now. Being able to pull it to a trailer is a big plus to me.

 

[dhays]

While the SeaPiper would not be a boat appropriate for my purposes, I think it definitely should be worth considering if it would fit your needs.
Pros:
- Very efficient hull design which can cruise economically with a small power plant.
- Trailorable. For many folks this would be a real plus. Being able to explore new cruising grounds with less cost would be wonderful.
- Convenient side access from both port and starboard.
- Simple. I like simple.

Cons:
- Can't move from the saloon to the head/cabin without going out on deck. Not ideal in the PNW rain, or possibly in HHH weather. As an old guy who has to visit the head frequently, that would be a no-go.
- The narrow hull dimensions would make it very susceptible to rolling. If I had a SeaPiper, I would make sure that I had a Seakeeper installed.
- Poor visibility aft from the helm position. (my boat is the same)
- Very limited panel real estate at the helm station.
- Only 80 gallons of fresh water and only a 20 gallon black water tank.

Having said all of that, I can picture a lot of great uses for a SeaPiper and for your purposes, where much of the time you may be solo or with another guest, It could be great.

 

[DavidU]

I too am concerned about the tankage of the new build Seattle Yachts/Northern Marine 37. There is a 35 with 40 hours for sale in Ca. The tankage on the 35 is much preferred. 145 fresh water, 32 black, and 275 fuel. I inquired with a Seattle Yachts rep a little while back the rationale for the reductions in tankage in the new 37 build and have yet to be responded to. The 2020 in Ca. Is $250K. Have to say that’s kinda appealing, and it can be towed…..

 

[dhays]

I too am concerned about the tankage of the new build Seattle Yachts/Northern Marine 37. There is a 35 with 40 hours for sale in Ca. The tankage on the 35 is much preferred. 145 fresh water, 32 black, and 275 fuel. I inquired with a Seattle Yachts rep a little while back the rationale for the reductions in tankage in the new 37 build and have yet to be responded to. The 2020 in Ca. Is $250K. Have to say that’s kinda appealing, and it can be towed…..

The fuel tankage wouldn't bother me. I have a boat that burns about 2x as much as the SeaPiper would at 7 to 7.5 knots. I have 400 gallon capacity in my boat. It is much more than I usually need for my purposes. The water and black water would be more of an issue. I have 350 gallon fresh water and 50 gallon black water. At times I could use more of both.

 

[DavidU]

I agree. 200 gallons of fuel in the new boats is a non issue. That still provides quite a range. The more limited black water and fresh water in the new 37 as opposed to the 35 is more of my concern.

 

[Nick14]

I always get a good laugh out of the games most manufacturers play with boat ‘length.’

The Sea Piper 35 is now a 37? Do they now include the swim platform? Or the distance the anchor overhangs the bow?

The Nordic Tug started out and for many years was the 37. Then American Tug introduced the AT39, and presto! Like magic the Nordic 37 became a 39. Then in further one upsmanship the same boat became the current Nordic 40.

Not to be outdone the American Tug 34 became the 365.

All of these seemingly for the exact same boat?

 

[rslifkin]

I always get a good laugh out of the games most manufacturers play with boat ‘length.’

The Sea Piper 35 is now a 37? Do they now include the swim platform? Or the distance the anchor overhangs the bow?

The Nordic Tug started out and for many years was the 37. Then American Tug introduced the AT39, and presto! Like magic the Nordic 37 became a 39. Then in further one upsmanship the same boat became the current Nordic 40.

Not to be outdone the American Tug 34 became the 365.

All of these seemingly for the exact same boat?

It's not uncommon for the model length to be a little off from actual length just to get a better sounding number or better spacing between numbers in the lineup (or to be different from the previous model). Plenty of manufacturers publish the actual LOA (and sometimes LWL and LOD) in the spec sheets, which is good as they can vary a couple of feet sometimes between different models of the same "marketing length".

 

[Nick14]

It's not uncommon for the model length to be a little off from actual length just to get a better sounding number or better spacing between numbers in the lineup (or to be different from the previous model). Plenty of manufacturers publish the actual LOA (and sometimes LWL and LOD) in the spec sheets, which is good as they can vary a couple of feet sometimes between different models of the same "marketing length".

It may be ‘common’ among manufacturers, but that doesn’t mean it either makes sense, or is right.

You hit the nail on the head with ‘marketing length’ . Which may or may not be related to the actual length .

 

[rslifkin]

It may be ‘common’ among manufacturers, but that doesn’t mean it either makes sense, or is right.

You hit the nail on the head with ‘marketing length’ . Which may or may not be related to the actual length .

I try to just think of it as a model number and it just happens that they tend to be mostly related to length. As long as they publish the real specs somewhere easy enough to find, that's what matters to me.

 

[sean9c]

A friend of mine was interested in the Sea Piper and had come up to look at the one being built for the customer in FL, I think it's the only one built by Seattle Yachts. He did a boat ride and everything and walked away unimpressed. To be a little fair, maybe, but SY did agree to do it, that boat had everything you could think of and then some on it, it was really heavy. My friend got the weight from the travel lift operator and it was 1000#'s over advertised. Though travel lift scales aren't known to be very accurate. He also said that the motion when running was unpleasant and felt like the boat was overweight. Also a really weird thing and one that you'd really have to wonder how you'd fix is that when the boat was running and you went through a wave or the boat rolled water would shoot into the cockpit through the big gap at the bottom of those cockpit side doors in the topsides. When you look at that detail it's no surprise really and you do have to wonder how they though that'd work.
I looked at the same boat at the Anacortes Boat Show and sort of liked the idea of it but there were quite a few details that seem to need a re-think before it's ready for prime time.

 

[Nick14]

I try to just think of it as a model number and it just happens that they tend to be mostly related to length. As long as they publish the real specs somewhere easy enough to find, that's what matters to me.

It seems the ‘marketing length’ goes up when the price does. Manufacturers probably think it might be a bit easier to separate a buyer from their money if they think they’re getting a humongous 37 and not a pip-squeak little 35.

I think many buyers are happy to go along with that, since for some boat (and certain other…) bragging rights go along with length.

Maybe the next step in ‘marketing length’ is to use inches? Imagine… the new Sea Piper 420 (or 444)! To figure out the actual length of a boat a buyer will need to bring a calculator, or a tape measure.

I suspect for some men buyers, boat length might also related to how they feel about a certain other, more personal ‘length,’ and who wouldn’t be thrilled to be told they now have an extra foot or two than before ?

 

[DDW]

I think beyond the marketing, the CG now requires a permanently attached swim platform be included in LOA.

Almost all production boats are overweight compared to the N.A.s optimistic estimate. Just like RVs.

On the Seapiper, many boats have flappers on their scupper or freeing ports to let water out but to keep it from slopping in. But it is disappointing that they are needed. That open center cockpit is just something I don't understand. Best part of the boat for accommodations is given up. In the PNW you can't use it because you will get rained on, in the Caribbean you can't use it because you will get sunburn, can't steer from there anyway - it just wrecks the boat for me. Seattle Yachts needs a new deck mold.

 

[rslifkin]

That open center cockpit is just something I don't understand. Best part of the boat for accommodations is given up. In the PNW you can't use it because you will get rained on, in the Caribbean you can't use it because you will get sunburn, can't steer from there anyway - it just wrecks the boat for me. Seattle Yachts needs a new deck mold.

I agree. The current layout seems very much like it's intended for fishing or work boat use where you may want that cockpit area for fishing, pulling crab pots, or stuff like that. As a pleasure boat a different layout would be more useful.

 

[ABfish]

It's not hard to move a boat under 10 ft beam, or even 12 ft with the right permits. Past 12 ft in width, you get into pilot cars and such. With a boat that long and heavy, why would a $100 permit and some marker flags be a bother? It's not like you're going to move it every weekend.

Another foot or two of beam would be a game changer.

 

[Benthic2]

Another foot or two of beam and a traditional cabin and all of a sudden it is just another boat, indistinguishable from 75% of every other boat. I thought the original design was beam limited mostly to fit into a standard shipping container to keep shipping costs down for the builder.

If you look at it as a normal boat with a chunk of cabin missing it's hard to see it in a favorable light. If you think of it as a center console with a kick ass enclosed helm and a little cuddy up front, it might make more sense....ok so you still have to squint a little but I admire the design and aplaud the boldness it took to bring it to market. I really hope they succeed.

 

[DDW]

8.5' beam won't fit in a shipping container. It really wouldn't be hard to trailer a boat of that size and weight, you just need a heavy pickup. So I understand the dimensions, it's the "half the cabin missing" that is the dead end.

 

[ABfish]

A boat that size is easily transportable over the road, but not trailerable in the sense of launching and retrieval on a regular basis. Light weight of 12.5K lbs plus trailer plus tankage plus personal effects, I bet you're at least 17,000 lbs gross.

Not my idea of a recreational tow, and I have driven heavy trucks professionally.

 

[Blissboat]

That open center cockpit is just something I don't understand. Best part of the boat for accommodations is given up. In the PNW you can't use it because you will get rained on, in the Caribbean you can't use it because you will get sunburn, can't steer from there anyway - it just wrecks the boat for me.

Ditto. The Sea Piper is eye-catching in a salty, workboat kind of way, but functionally I can see no use case for it. Unless you're working with some kind of gear in the water, like traps, it's an answer to a question that nobody asked.

 

[Crux]

It's not hard to move a boat under 10 ft beam, or even 12 ft with the right permits. Past 12 ft in width, you get into pilot cars and such. With a boat that long and heavy, why would a $100 permit and some marker flags be a bother? It's not like you're going to move it every weekend.

Another foot or two of beam would be a game changer.

Exactly.......and check with your state about an annual permit also.
All easy online, or you can use a permitting service

 

[dhays]

A boat that size is easily transportable over the road, but not trailerable in the sense of launching and retrieval on a regular basis. Light weight of 12.5K lbs plus trailer plus tankage plus personal effects, I bet you're at least 17,000 lbs gross.

Not my idea of a recreational tow, and I have driven heavy trucks professionally.

I don't think the idea is a 'recreational tow' as such. However, the idea of a boat that could be inexpensively moved has a certain appeal to me.

I am in the Puget Sound region. If I wanted to a portion of The Loop, I would need to charter or buy another boat in that region to make it oractical. However, with a boat like the SeaPiper, it would be relatively easy. Someone could take the opportunity to cruise a wide range of areas using their own boat.

Again, the SeaPiper isn't for me, but I think it could be great for some folks and I hope they are successful.

 

[DDW]

A boat that size is easily transportable over the road, but not trailerable in the sense of launching and retrieval on a regular basis. Light weight of 12.5K lbs plus trailer plus tankage plus personal effects, I bet you're at least 17,000 lbs gross.

Not my idea of a recreational tow, and I have driven heavy trucks professionally.

You aren't going to throw it in the water for an afternoon of fishing, no. But there are tens of thousands of large 5th wheel travel trailers roaming the country, a large percentage of which are around that weight and size and many larger. In fact a lot of old age pensioners are driving them across the country on a regular basis. So not really that challenging. Launching from the trailer is going to take a very long and deep ramp, but there are many places you can launch it with a dockside crane used for dry stored boats, and almost anywhere with a travel lift.

I agree with dhays, the idea of being able to reposition it cheaply is very appealing, as is the idea of pulling it out seasonally, or bringing it home to maintain.

 

[ABfish]

That's why I use the term transportable. There are few ramps in my area that could launch that boat. Taking the boat to a boatyard with a crane or lift is much more feasible.

I would buy a Seapiper and pay a transporter to haul it. If I had to tow it, I'd get a custom trailer and use my semi tractor with a bumper hitch. Seriously. The tractor weights 22,000 lbs , so I'm not that concerned with pulling a trailer that's been dunked in the saltwater and may or may not have functioning brakes. And it's got air ride, so it's pretty comfortable.

I've seen a lot of RV's going up and down I-95 at 5 mph under the speed limit. Again, not my idea of fun.

 

[hgd]

I am an owner of a Seapiper, hull #5. I have had her for 5 years now. Living in Florida we have done some extensive cruising, the longest has been a trip lasting for 5 months, my wife and I, traveling from Naples, Fl up and around the Chesapeake and back. After 5 months living aboard we can say it is a very liveable design. However, I must say the changes we made to the boat greatly contributed to that result. To understand the changes we made I suggest you check out our blog, if you are interested; Seapiper35-KIWI.
Comments made in this forum discussion about the open center cock pit is correct. Going forward in a wet passage to use the head is intolerable. Which is the reason we covered and enclosed the center cockpit. This made all the difference in the world, being dry and out of the hot sun. The boat handles well in a seaway and has plenty of ballast below the CG. I added a Seakeeper just to be certain. There is just too many things to discuss, it is best to read our blog. However there is one thing I should mention. The Seapiper 35 is a 36 ft boat. SY added a ft to the swim platform to the boat they built for the buyer in Sarasota. Everything about the “footsmanship” I read about the sales people I totally agree with.
Please do not discount a very capable, economically driven, trawler who is capable of carrying sufficient supplies, fuel and water for long passages.

 

[DavidU]

Thanks for the link and feedback. I’ll definitely read your blog. Sitting in Seattle currently waiting to fly back east having just gotten off a Helmsman 38e for a week charter in the San Juan Islands. We didn’t plan ahead enough to swing thru Anacortes on our way south to Seattle to visit Northern Marine and take a look at hull 15 which I don’t think has sold yet. There is a Seapiper coming to market in Bremerton on 9-15 and I tried to arrange an early showing, but with no luck. That was disappointing. I’d love to be able to charter a Seapiper to experience but with so few out there, that doesn’t seem likely. We have chartered American Tug, Nordic and now Helmsman this summer as part of our decision process. Seapiper seems as if it would be a little small, but I’d happily take a week out of my life to live it for myself and see.

I’m guessing being hull 5 you have the larger tankage than what is currently being offered for new builds? I don’t understand why SY would reduce the black and water tanks. Fuel seems fine either way. 20 gallon holding just seems tiny to me.

Looking forward to your blog.

 

[hgd]

Yes, SY did a number of weird things. It would be better if they had built the way it was originally designed. KIWI has 274 gal of fuel and 150 gal of water. I think SY is rethinking some of the things they did or I hope so!

 

[Carl Martin]

Very cool boat! I think the center cockpit is a great idea. Very useable space in Florida & the Bahamas. Not sure how well you'd be able to see to drive the boat if you enclosed the cockpit. I'd add a big bimini with roll up isinglass & screens for use at anchor.

 

[hgd]

Carl- There is no problem with visibility. Especially if you don’t use the thin vinyl whose winkles cause optical distortion. I used .060 Stratoglass for the dodger windows and the large side windows. They are all clear as glass. Sitting midship to steer
(The position for the most comfortable location for motion) is not a problem. I sat on the stern to steer my sailboat!

 

[Carl Martin]

Glad your system works. Can't argue with real world experience. I think this boat would really be fun for us. The cockpit would be great for fishing & perfect for taking friends out for a sunset cruise. And really liveable for 2 to cruise. Of all the boats that have caught my eye lately, the really unique Sandpiper is at the top of the list.

 

[hgd]

The enclosed center cockpit significantly increases the livable volume of the boat.
Good luck!!