Seattle Waste Spill

[magna 6882]

Common sense would be to pump out but it is disappointing that millions of gallons get dumped and just overlooked. I was at some homes on vashon a few years ago for some construction work and i noticed there waste line ran to the beach. I ask how could that be and he informed me the whole neighborhood ran to the beach and were hoping someday a lift station and community drain field would be installed but that would be up to king county.I know two wrongs don't make a right but it bugs me that the whole problem, meaning every contributor, is held accountable or at least identified instead of just identifying boaters.
If its a no dump zone than that means everyone and a home would need a tank and have it pumped just like a boat.

 

[catalinajack]

Pete, many of us believe that pumping overboard does not make the water worse. As an analogy, think about adding a drop of water to a five gallon bucket. Yes, the volume has been increased but to no measurable degree. That is the situation we have with overboard discharge. Doing so does not affect the quality of the water to any measurable degree.

Here's an example. I boat on the Chesapeake. The water meets water quality standards for swimming and is tested regularly where folks swim in the warmer months. Swimming is never restricted except when, rarely, there has been a sewage spill from a water treatment plant. Yup, two days later, after hundreds of thousands or even millions of gallons of raw sewage went into the water, the water is safe to swim in again. So, boats? They just don't matter, a drop in the bucket even if every damn one of us pumped overboard.

Take a ride to Lancaster County, PA, Amish country, in January or February. The Amish farmers spread their accumulated cow manure on their fields, the old-fashioned way of fertilizing for the next year's corn crop. For days, for miles and miles the air is strongly pungent with the odor of decaying cow poop. Yup, it all ends up in the Chesapeake via the Susquehanna River. Now, do you really think that Chesapeake boaters ALL dumping overboard can possibly come close to that? Not even close, a drop in the bucket. So, no, I do not accept the proposition that "every lit bit helps". It does not, not even close.

Here's a rhetorical question. How many boaters, even the scrupulously compliant boater, would not illegally pump overboard having founds themselves unexpectedly with a full tank and no pump-out in sight? My guess is that few of us have not pumped overboard from time-to-time. And, please, no one comment back that, with proper planning, this should not happen because sometimes in boating, even with "propoer planning" plans have a habit of being upset by circumstances impossible to have been foreseen.

Still, I comply. Have I ever been caught unprepared? Maybe.

I agree that it is very difficult to accept and in fact, an intolerable situation. But we, as boaters, need to take the high road. Instead of saying "If Seattle can do it, so can I". We need to take the stand that says "Think of how much worse the water would be if boaters were discharging waste in the water."

I guess it is bad enough that whales and seagulls do it. I am proud to say that I do not.

pete

 

[backinblue]

Thanks CJ. Exact same situation where I live on Long Island Sound. A heavy storm can overwhelm the system and millions of gallons of untreated sewage get released and swimming is banned for 2 days.

And to answer your rhetorical question, I have been in that situation but not without first trying to hail a couple different pumpout boats with no answer (late season), and then going to a floating self-service pumpout dock. The manual pump would not work and that's when I gave up and pumped my tank overboard.

However, I do normally comply, whether I think it makes sense or not.

 

[catalinajack]

Thanks, finally, an honest guy. Yes, I was that guy somewhere, sometime. And, yes, swimming banned for two days and all those millions of gallons of raw sewage is absorbed by natural forces, flow, volume, etc. Pumping overboard in a large, free-flowing waterway just does not matter.

Thanks CJ. Exact same situation where I live on Long Island Sound. A heavy storm can overwhelm the system and millions of gallons of untreated sewage get released and swimming is banned for 2 days.

And to answer your rhetorical question, I have been in that situation but not without first trying to hail a couple different pumpout boats with no answer (late season), and then going to a floating self-service pumpout dock. The manual pump would not work and that's when I gave up and pumped my tank overboard.

 

[backinblue]

I forgot to mention that the pumpout dock that I tied up to probably had more seagull poop on it than would fit in my holding tank!

 

[SteveK]

Because Puget sound is a no dump zone, when a major dump from sanitation facilities occurs it IS a big deal.
Treatment plants on shore are often overwhelmed above the 49th but it happens so often out of Vancouver that it is no longer news. Victoria is mentioned for the lack of any treatment.
But at least our GOV is not anal about boats pumping overboard in deepest water with a strong flow IF no pump out is available within a reasonable distance. The 3 mile from shore is a guide. No dumping in anchorages may be enforced, the boater that does deserves that fine.

 

[MurrayM]

...Victoria is mentioned for the lack of any treatment...

Thought you might want to know that $775,000,000.00 was spent on a sewage treatment plant for Victoria

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/...an-after-area-opens-treatment-plant-1.5260435

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

My niece has her Phd in Plant Science/ Remediation. I've heard her say ' the solution to pollution is dilution'

 

[Art]

So what's the alternative ?

Potty train the whales ?
Shut down the farms ?
Let boaters pump their crap overboard whenever and where ever they want ?

So what's the alternative ?

Simple - Decrease human population by 2/3.

Any other questions??

 

[Captain Glenn]

Correction $300.million. Sorry

 

[backinblue]

So when do we crack down on all the millions of swimmers peeing in the water just feet off our shores at the prettiest beaches?

 

[Group9]

Thanks CJ. Exact same situation where I live on Long Island Sound. A heavy storm can overwhelm the system and millions of gallons of untreated sewage get released and swimming is banned for 2 days.

.

I'm always amazed at how many adults have no understanding that that is the contingency plan for every single sewage plant in the U.S. when they have more waste water than they can treat.

 

[backinblue]

I'm always amazed at how many adults have no understanding that that is the contingency plan for every single sewage plant in the U.S. when they have more waste water than they can treat.

I completely understand that, that's not the issue. The thing I shake my head at is that, as you say, it's acceptable for every sewage plant in the country to do this, but if a boater dumps 10 gal of black water (maybe 10% actual waste), it an outrage!

 

[Group9]

I completely understand that, that's not the issue. The thing I shake my head at is that, as you say, it's acceptable for every sewage plant in the country to do this, but if a boater dumps 10 gal of black water (maybe 10% actual waste), it an outrage!

I agree with you 100 per cent.

I just think a lot of the people who don't own boats, who think boat sewage is a real issue, have no idea how much of their own sewage has gone into the waterways untreated.

 

[Shrew]

I just think a lot of the people who don't own boats, who think boat sewage is a real issue, have no idea how much of their own sewage has gone into the waterways untreated.

I think that anyone who gets frustrated with the waste treatment plants overflowing into the water system don't really understand how these systems actually work.

They more then likely also don't understand what would happen if they DIDN'T discharge. A 100,000 toilets, and drains all backing up blackwater is less desirable still.

The parallel that "If they do it, then we should be able too as well" is just a silly twist of logic.

 

[backinblue]

I think that anyone who gets frustrated with the waste treatment plants overflowing into the water system don't really understand how these systems actually work.

They more then likely also don't understand what would happen if they DIDN'T discharge. A 100,000 toilets, and drains all backing up blackwater is less desirable still.

The parallel that "If they do it, then we should be able too as well" is just a silly twist of logic.

No it isn't, it's the exact same argument. If I have a large group of people on my boat drinking beer and it exceeds the capacity of my holding tank, why should I not be allowed to dump the excess overboard? That's preferable to backing up my head toilet, no? Maybe sewage treatment plants should be designed to handle a surge, some sort of overflow storage or something. It's like building a dam and saying, this will work great until we get heavy rain, and then it will fail.

 

[hickleyboy]

Why have any sewage treatment plants? We should just dump all the waste into the waterways.
Let's even save some money by not having any black water storage on our boats. Then we can flush directly into the sea.

Sometimes my trash bin gets full before the garbage truck comes. I should probably be able to just throw the trash that doesn't fit directly into the street, or a neighbors yard, heck maybe even the ocean, right?

 

[SteveK]

It is such a wonderful thing seeing a triggered tree hugger/climate activist.

 

[catalinajack]

I agree with you 100%. We should dump black water over board.

Why have any sewage treatment plants? We should just dump all the waste into the waterways.
Let's even save some money by not having any black water storage on our boats. Then we can flush directly into the sea.

Sometimes my trash bin gets full before the garbage truck comes. I should probably be able to just throw the trash that doesn't fit directly into the street, or a neighbors yard, heck maybe even the ocean, right?

 

[Art]

This thread has gone to the shiittss. Human waste IS a global problem because there are so many of us; and, we tend to gather in clumps.

So... we are supposed to be fairly smart - aren't we?. Therefore, I'm certain that we humans could/should develop [invent] ample successful sewage treatment facilities and ways for dirt dwellers and for boaters.

And yes - due to the size. scope and dire need for this to be accomplished - it is even more important than "rocket science"; that is if we really want to address everything required to "Save Earth's Ecosystem" - before it becomes too late.

BTW: The last three words n quotes is mantra for one of my corporations.

 

[BruceK]

This thread has gone to the shiittss. Human waste IS a global problem because there are so many of us; and, we tend to gather in clumps.

So... we are supposed to be fairly smart - aren't we?. Therefore, I'm certain that we humans could/should develop [invent] ample successful sewage treatment facilities and ways for dirt dwellers and for boaters.

And yes - due to the size. scope and dire need for this to be accomplished - it is even more important than "rocket science"; that is if we really want to address everything required to "Save Earth's Ecosystem" - before it becomes too late.

BTW: The last three words n quotes is mantra for one of my corporations.

I think it`s already "too late".

 

[Benthic2]

Any Star Trek Fans here ?

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" -Spock.

People have to live somewhere. They need food to eat. Farms and primary residences are vital to civilization. Do any of you pay attention to local politics ?? When was the last time your city or county was flush ( did you see what I did there ? ) with cash ?? To build a sewage plant that is able to handle all weather and personal GI issues, 100% of the time would be outrageously expensive. Cities just can't afford it so they build a plant that can will work 95% of the time.....but it takes so long to design, plan, get grants, do impact studies, fight legal battles and then build it, that by the time it comes on line the population has grown so there is more waste than they designed it for. Then consider that we are having more and more extreme weather events and its no wonder that these plants can't keep up. When they release a gazillion gallons of raw sewage its not out of apathy or ignorance.....its because they have limited resources to build and maintain the plant. Sure, they could have built one that could handle more throughput, but then they wouldn't have been able to build a new high school, or buy a new firetruck, or keep the streetlights on all night.

So.....back to the Spock quote. People need to have working plumbing in their homes. The cities do the best they can with the tax revenue they get and the people charged with allocating those funds. Yes, there are times when their efforts are inadequate, but I'd like to think they are doing everything they possibly can, they best way they know how. Why is it so unfair to ask boaters to do everything they possibly can. Getting sewage out of residential areas is a public health issue. It is a necessary process that everyone benefits from. Boating is optional.

 

[Benthic2]

... If I have a large group of people on my boat drinking beer and it exceeds the capacity of my holding tank, why should I not be allowed to dump the excess overboard? That's preferable to backing up my head toilet, no? ....

Preferable to who ????? Sure, its much better for you. But what about your buddies ? They probably don't want to have to go through all the trouble to piss in a bucket, or try and balance on the swim platform. Its probably better for them to just piss in your cockpit.....or salon. Its not their boat. If they just think about their own needs they might just wear a bathing suit and let loose on your sofa. That's better for them, no?

 

[psneeld]

Are people here arguing NDZ as NO SEWAGE or NO TREATED SEWAGE?


Seems like a lot of people are arguing without stating why now that it is an NDZ its now a problem but wasn't before....yet still discussing raw sewage.


I wonder here how many use a type I or II MSD? I do and it sounds like few others.


If so...this is a really dumb discussion.

 

[CharlieO.]

Why can't they just release the stormwater? If these release events are mostly happening during weather events (RAIN), it seems the stormwater runoff would be the main culprit in these events. I find it hard to believe that people are using their bathrooms so much more on a rainy day to overwhelm the system. So why isn't the system designed to release the excess stormwater into the waterway rather than untreated sewage?


Disclaimer: I am not smart.

 

[psneeld]

Preferable to who ????? Sure, its much better for you. But what about your buddies ? They probably don't want to have to go through all the trouble to piss in a bucket, or try and balance on the swim platform. Its probably better for them to just piss in your cockpit.....or salon. Its not their boat. If they just think about their own needs they might just wear a bathing suit and let loose on your sofa. That's better for them, no?

Pretty sure he meant just use the head with direct discharge.

This conversation seems to have become emotion over reason.

 

[psneeld]

Why can't they just release the stormwater? If these release events are mostly happening during weather events (RAIN), it seems the stormwater runoff would be the main culprit in these events. I find it hard to believe that people are using their bathrooms so much more on a rainy day to overwhelm the system. So why isn't the system designed to release the excess stormwater into the waterway rather than untreated sewage?


Disclaimer: I am not smart.

Maybe there is so much more storm water at the moment than treated sewage the figure a little sewage isn't all that bad compared to total storm water.


But it is nice to treat it under normal conditions.


If we knew those numbers, maybe some sanity would return to these sorts of threads.

 

[CharlieO.]

Maybe there is so much more storm water at the moment than treated sewage the figure a little sewage isn't all that bad compared to total storm water.


But it is nice to treat it under normal conditions.


If we knew those numbers, maybe some sanity would return to these sorts of threads.

That makes a little sense, maybe the amount of stormwater dilutes the sewage enough that it isn't worth redesigning a system that handles the capacity 97% of the time (I just made that number up). I do agree its nice to treat as much as we can, but the best fishing is at the end of those discharge pipes. Catch and Release only there. lol

 

[backinblue]

Preferable to who ????? Sure, its much better for you. But what about your buddies ? They probably don't want to have to go through all the trouble to piss in a bucket, or try and balance on the swim platform. Its probably better for them to just piss in your cockpit.....or salon. Its not their boat. If they just think about their own needs they might just wear a bathing suit and let loose on your sofa. That's better for them, no?

So in your mind, it's ok to pee off the side of the boat or when swimming in the water, or into a bucket that you dump into the water, but it's not ok to pee into a toilet that empties into the water? Hmmmm, that's too puzzling for me to think about.

 

[backinblue]

I agree that the cost is generally prohibitive for cities to upgrade their sewage treatment plants. Here's a novel thought.....I wonder if any of the trillions being proposed for "infrastructure" could be used for that reason?