shore power cord problems

[tinped]

Where exactly is the copper you refer to in the boat AC system???

ok,I found it-air conditioning.On the west coast,most buyers chose diesel heat,not air conditioning.For example,north pacific yachts offers an east coast package(with ac,no heat)or a west coast package(the reverse)there is no need for a second 30 amp shore power with the heat option.So in the factory,all the other 110v needs are prewired thru one shore power,making them identical for east coast/west coast,then a second is added for an east coast order.Saves the builder money.

 

[smitty477]

"I did the same when designing my electrical system.
I bought a Leviton 30 amp two pole switch.
It joins both hots and both neutrals from each cord together.
The switch is actually a locking key switch. I keep the key on a wire right next to the switch, prevents it from being accidentally switched."

"Other thing, turn off your boat main breaker on the unused 30 amp side, so the unused 30 amp connector socket is not energized, otherwise it will be live."


Our boats came with a parallel switch that allowed the use of two or more lines of loads (breakers) off of one or more lines of feeds (power cords) by just a turn of the switch. These switches did not allow any unused prongs to be energized nor was it a 'problem' if someone happened to turn the switch unexpectedly.
Why would anyone accept a situation that offered anything less safe or easy?

 

[Bacchus]

not sure what you mean I referred to. went back thru my posts,no mention of ac anywhere - alternating current,air conditioning?

I thought this whole thread was about Shore Power? That is AC current.

Where in the shore power system is the copper several have talked about protecting w/ various sprays etc?

 

[tinped]

I was responding to a question about why there are two separate 30 amp shore power,instead of a single 50 amp. As regards to the spray,both the plug ends,and the wire terminals,if accessible,of the shore power would benefit,that would also include the disconnect breaker connections on the boat side,or any place you can get at copper connections that are not sealed for that matter.Additional means of anti-corrosive,oxidation,or whatever terms everyone feels appropriate,certainly would be a big benefit in the marine environment,even if they were already treated,like tinning.

 

[tinped]

I thought this whole thread was about Shore Power? That is AC current.





air conditioning uses ac,not dc,supplied under this discussion by shore power.Or thru your inverter from the genny.not gettingyour question,sorry it is late.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I thought this whole thread was about Shore Power? That is AC current.

Where in the shore power system is the copper several have talked about protecting w/ various sprays etc?

The wires in most shore cords are not tinned.

 

[BruceK]

What`s the best color for a shorepower cord?

 

[Steve]

Black, even the yellow ones wind up that way.

 

[sdowney717]

"I did the same when designing my electrical system.
I bought a Leviton 30 amp two pole switch.
It joins both hots and both neutrals from each cord together.
The switch is actually a locking key switch. I keep the key on a wire right next to the switch, prevents it from being accidentally switched."

"Other thing, turn off your boat main breaker on the unused 30 amp side, so the unused 30 amp connector socket is not energized, otherwise it will be live."


Our boats came with a parallel switch that allowed the use of two or more lines of loads (breakers) off of one or more lines of feeds (power cords) by just a turn of the switch. These switches did not allow any unused prongs to be energized nor was it a 'problem' if someone happened to turn the switch unexpectedly.
Why would anyone accept a situation that offered anything less safe or easy?

The way I do that join is safe and easy, I have the main breakers under cover and locked down with a key. It would take a deliberate action to decide to electrocute yourself by unlocking the cover, turning on the breaker and then touching the prongs, a self destructive behavior.

I assume most dual 30 amp systems don't have a parallel combiner switch.

Got a schematic that shows the circuit lockouts?

Other than a switch. make a 30 amp Y splitter to energize both 30 amp inlets at once.

 

[rwidman]

Seems like all you'd have to do to prevent that is to turn off the main breaker feeding the house. Then the generator couldn't back feed to the transformer.

Of course and that was his argument. The problem is, that depends on a human remembering to do this and humans sometimes forget. He also argued that the "hot" 220 volt dryer plug hanging from the ceiling waiting to be plugged in wasn't a hazard because he knew to plug it in before starting the generator.

Remember, he didn't just do this one time in an emergency, this was his standard, permanent setup for power outages. He had plenty of time to have it installed correctly.

He got tired of having to lift the mower over the wires from the shed to the house (three wires, not a cable and no ground) so he buried them six inches deep.


The NEC and on boats, ABYC frowns on any system that requires human action to provide safety and for good reason.

 

[psneeld]

Which at some point is counterproductive to pleasure boating because that same error prone human unites the boat and heads out into thousands of waiting disasters only he/she can control.

I can't wait to install 5 point, 20g restraint harness at my helm and be forced to wear it because some skipper forgot to hold on when a wake hit, they fell and the crash killed a bunch of people.

 

[rwidman]

Thankfully boats don't strictly follow land based regs....apples and oranges..

Electricity behaves the same on a boat as it does on land. It doesn't know the difference.

Boat regulations are land regulations modified to fit the conditions on boats. Mostly the changes or additions are related to corrosion and vibration and the higher possibility of electrocution because of the proximity of water.

 

[Bacchus]

The wires in most shore cords are not tinned.

I guess that's another reason to go Smart Plug

"The SmartPlug 30 Amp 125 Volt dual configuration shore power cord connects to the SmartPlug 30 Amp Boatside Inlet (BM30S) on and a typical 30 Amp twist-type outlet on the dock side.
This is also the only shore power cord on the market with tinned copper wire throughout the entire length of the cable for the ultimate in corrosion resistance."

 

[tadhana]

Tinped, it looks like I have a slightly different take on the ABYC and here is my response to these comments. "The only reason I stated prior about the fixed wiring issue is that abyc doesn't write the original text to there standards,they use the nec codes as there starting point.They tweak some of them to be more applicable to the marine,and boating needs,thats why they are called standards,not codes(so I was told)Do they have a different interpretation,maybe,but I put that disclaimer in there,about myself,and for others to seek further clarification.The abyc standards that I know(not many)were taken verbatim form the nec,no changes.[/QUOTE]

Given that I was the Technical VP of ABYC for 11 years. In that position I was responsible for the development and updating of all ABYC standards. Given that I sat on the NFPA 302 and 303 committees for 10 years and worked closely with NFPA on correlating marine standards with the NEC. Given that I was responsible for all the US technical representation on the International Standards TC 188 for ten years. I even chaired one ISO committee. I can say with certainty that the following statements are factual and true.
1. ABYC DOES write the original text to ALL their standards. They do organize the testing of new products and new technology as it might affect boating safety.
2. they have technical committee members who are intimately familiar with the NEC codes and standards and work to make the two systems compatible, which means submitting comments and changes to the NEC as necessary, through NFPA 303 and 302. .
3. they do NOT "tweak" some of the NEC to be more "applicable" to the marine,and boating needs.
4. The NEC is a standard until it is written into a law at which time it becomes a code. Here is an explanation from NFPA itself, "A code is a model, a set of rules that knowledgeable people recommend for others to follow. It is not a law, but CAN BE ADOPTED into law.A standard tends be a more detailed elaboration, the nuts and bolts of meeting a code."
5. The ABYC standards that I know(which is all of them) )were NOT taken verbatim from the NEC.
6. ABYC standards are the basis for the international boat building standards.

Every marine product liability case is based upon and decided by compliance with ABYC standards, not the NEC. Yes I have worked with many expert witnesses prearing for trial and been an expert witness.

And finally, I do have the full set of ABYC standards at my fingertips and can share their recommendations with any of you.

 

[tinped]

While I have never propogated that I have any direct knowledge of abyc, nor that I am certified by them in any way, the statement (so I was told) was from someone pretty well known within the abyc circles (No names),so I had no reason to doubt his opinions. As to your definition to codes, in my opinion, I think you are backwards. On my side of the dock, not yours, the codes are law, enforcible with associated fines, very detailish. What was explained to me, and please correct me from your side of the dock,is that the ABYC standards are guidelines, since the ABYC has no enforcement jurisdiction to impose fines. Other than Insurance , if a boat does not comply with abyc guidelines, then it wont receive certification, but that is it. That is a far cry from a large sum fine, padlocking your premises making them unusable, pulling your electric meter, revoking your certificate of occupancy making said premises unsellable.


Look all said and done, I am not trying to challenge the abyc, or you on anything. Our industries run very parallel, and while I was trying help some posters as to some electrical questions, I never stated that my side of the dock was better or worse than yours, and always referred the posters to take my info, and further it with someone like you. After all, electrically speaking from both sides of the dock, aren't we just trying to make sure someone outside of our field stays as safe as possible, realize their limitations, and possible seek help from a professional abyc certified electrician when needed.

 

[CMS]

it looks like I have a slightly different take on the ABYC and here is my response to these comments. "The only reason I stated prior about the fixed wiring issue is that abyc doesn't write the original text to there standards,they use the nec codes as there starting point.They tweak some of them to be more applicable to the marine,and boating needs,thats why they are called standards,not codes(so I was told)Do they have a different interpretation,maybe,but I put that disclaimer in there,about myself,and for others to seek further clarification.The abyc standards that I know(not many)were taken verbatim form the nec,no changes.

Given that I was the Technical VP of ABYC for 11 years.


..... snip...

Thanks for the clarifications you saved me some typing!!

 

[rwidman]

Regardless of whether they are standards or codes, they are there for you and your family's safety and following them it the best practice.