South Pacific Mayday

[psneeld]

Or say one Iridium communicator which will transmit your location for months, as well as allow messaging indicating exactly what is wrong.

Not sure SAR coordinators would support any system beyond COSPAT/SARSAT.

They might say it's an alternative and useful in some ways, but for real time response, not so sure.

 

[NaClyDog]

Right, doesn't SOLAS dictate everything related to this?

 

[psneeld]

SOLAS pretty much has been a driving force with equipment required by the maritime community... as far as adventurers....not sure how the different nations look upon them.

Example: the US does not require EPIRBs for rec craft but I believe they are in Australia.

So my thoughts were for better understanding of SAR capabilities by these adventurers/recreational ocean crossers so they could better prepare for the worst.

I often see some pretty substantial misconceptions of SAR here on TF...wouldn't hurt to improve that if headed out even anywhere past the marina breakwater. I am not sure that is really a priority by SAR organiztions past the professional mariner level.

 

[Hippocampus]

Some places I’ve been SAR is covered by volunteers. At times availability is limited if they are already deployed or haven’t responded due to personal reasons. Staffing and equipment availability may even be an issue where more formal governmental organizations are responsible. And of course weather enters in to the equation. Have always blown the bucks to current state of the art emergency comms/beacons/etc. but also tried to do everything reasonably to self rescue. Have judged risk of any vessel for any transit in terms of ability to self rescue and odds of timely SAR. Because of this have given up on solo. Even in coastal settings unless secure in the vessel and weather. Look at this thread and think the OP behaved honorably as did the others involved. Think the soul lost at sea in all likelihood did what he could to mitigate risk. But believe this is not an activity I personally would undertake outside a well monitored rally or race. From experience it’s much harder to get monitoring set up outside those settings. In past would have both my personal arrangements plus those of the organization involved.
I haven’t done passages on power. Is there any equivalencies to the rallies like the ARC or Salty Dawgs?

 

[CamoPirate]

Pacific Puddle jump offers tracking with predict wind

Pacific Puddle Jump Official Web Site

 

[magna 6882]

faacebook site says there communicating with him.

 

[BruceK]

faacebook site says there communicating with him.

Hope so, but..
Re Epirb requirements in Australia mentioned above, they are compulsory if (I think) 2 miles offshore.

 

[magna 6882]

from reading there site a C130 was dispatched and found a person in a life raft and dropped supply's.His plb made one last ping and they found a raft. Closest boat seems 150nm away. Info is just coming in in real time.

 

[BruceK]

from reading there site a C130 was dispatched and found a person in a life raft and dropped supply's.His plb made one last ping and they found a raft. Closest boat seems 150nm away. Info is just coming in in real time.

Wonderful News!! Search persistence and a Plb brings success. There have been many Epirb/Plb rescues here, at sea and on land.

 

[DDW]

Not sure SAR coordinators would support any system beyond COSPAT/SARSAT.

They might say it's an alternative and useful in some ways, but for real time response, not so sure.

They can and do. Plenty of examples. It isn't any different than if they get a satphone call (which comes through the same system). It carries more information and more current information than an EPRIB.

Now I think you should have both a sat comm device and an EPRIB, but your reponse might just be better with the sat com, because the nature of the distress, urgency, number fo souls, etc. can be communicated. An EPIRB is more like butt-dialling 911 - contains little information other than the ring tone.

 

[Insequent]

They can and do. Plenty of examples. It isn't any different than if they get a satphone call (which comes through the same system). It carries more information and more current information than an EPRIB.

Now I think you should have both a sat comm device and an EPRIB, but your reponse might just be better with the sat com, because the nature of the distress, urgency, number fo souls, etc. can be communicated. An EPIRB is more like butt-dialling 911 - contains little information other than the ring tone.

DDW you are so out of date!

Firstly, picking up on BruceK's comment above. Marine safety for recreational boats in Australia is a State function. In Queensland EPIRB's are part of a whole bunch of Safety items that are Mandatory if operating beyond "Partially Smooth Waters". Then there are the requirements for commercial vessels, covered by AMSA, which is an Australia-wide requirement. It has the 2 nm provision. Their EPIRB'S need to be the float free models. I put that model, with GPS, on my boat.
https://www.amsa.gov.au/safety-navi...find-out-what-changes-mean-your-dcv-operation

So we all have them, and nearly everyone is going to have the model that includes a GPS chip, which transmits the beacon's position automatically. It costs very little more. My PLB is old, but new ones are available with GPS also. That little chip removes "Search" from the "Search and Rescue" situation. Well, to within 20 or 30 feet. Should be close enough for you to be found by anyone who is looking.....

So, if you have an EPIRB or PLB that does not include the GPS chip then upgrade before going very far from home. If you don't have either device then I won't tell you to get lost, but you might very well stay lost (and might not be rescued)!

Seriously, fit an EPIRB to your vessel ASAP, preferably the float-free model and attach PLB's to lifejackets used by each of your permanent crew. All GPS enabled of course.

And, like everyone, glad to read Mambo's updates above.

 

[BruceK]

.... An EPIRB is more like butt-dialling 911 - contains little information other than the ring tone.

Maybe that`s how USA does it, butt dialing in hope, offering no more than a ringtone. Sounds hopeless, you need a better system, I fear for our valued US TF friends under your system.
Here we register Epirbs with AMSA (Australian Marine Safety Authority). They know the boat the Epirb attaches to, it`s registration and description,who owns it, contact details, and back up contacts with more details. They get you to renew the registration periodically, and ensure the information they hold is up to date. They will chase you to ensure you maintain the registration.

Fortunately I`ve not had to use it but I know from rescue reports it works, the Epirb transmits an accurate position rescuers use to locate the usually well identified vessel in trouble.

 

[psneeld]

No.... it's not like but dialing.... PLBs obviously work for more than 24 hours

When I say things outside of COSPAT/SARSAT aren't officially supported...that was not to mean that SAR coordinators ONLY respond to PLBs/EPIRBs . I meant it that because there is no unified control over them...they aren't officially addressed the same in the system procedures. However, ALL reasonable input is used when conducting searches (at least the USCG used to).

 

[twistedtree]

Maybe that`s how USA does it, butt dialing in hope, offering no more than a ringtone. Sounds hopeless, you need a better system, I fear for our valued US TF friends under your system.
Here we register Epirbs with AMSA (Australian Marine Safety Authority). They know the boat the Epirb attaches to, it`s registration and description,who owns it, contact details, and back up contacts with more details. They get you to renew the registration periodically, and ensure the information they hold is up to date. They will chase you to ensure you maintain the registration.

Fortunately I`ve not had to use it but I know from rescue reports it works, the Epirb transmits an accurate position rescuers use to locate the usually well identified vessel in trouble.

That’s how they work in the US too. NOAA is the registry. If you EPIRB isn’t registered, then get on it.

 

[Larry M]

This was sent to me last night:

Ok everybody some amazing news!! Aaron's PLB has just emitted new coordinates. Received by Tahiti. Once confirmed will share those coordinates. Definitely more updates this evening! Let's find him this time!!

What this means: Aaron is alive, presumably rowing, and his PLB still has some battery power.

New coordinates: Coordinates:
07 59.93 S
130 53.93 W

Detected at 15Jun23 1952 UTC

 

[NaClyDog]

This was sent to me last night:

Ok everybody some amazing news!! Aaron's PLB has just emitted new coordinates. Received by Tahiti. Once confirmed will share those coordinates. Definitely more updates this evening! Let's find him this time!!

What this means: Aaron is alive, presumably rowing, and his PLB still has some battery power.

New coordinates: Coordinates:
07 59.93 S
130 53.93 W

Detected at 15Jun23 1952 UTC

Wow, this is amazing news.

 

[CaptTom]

Interesting that it was the PLB, not the search, which (hopefully) turned this around.


Fingers crossed for a good ending!

 

[psneeld]

Interesting that it was the PLB, not the search, which (hopefully) turned this around.


Fingers crossed for a good ending!

If the PLB/EPIRB is operational, it will almost always be better than any (eyeball search).

Each level of rescue aid/search aid (FLIR, Flares, strobes for night... smoke, mirror, distress flag/balloon for day....RADAR for both) adds greater detectability by rescuers....but that initial and recent pings of electronics that give an accurate position will always be best.

The old search adage in SAR is make yourself (the target) bigger. Electronic is always the biggest. Now most electronic aids will pinpoint you anyplace on the globe. As long as the info is fresh enough, rescuers can go to the spot quickly and see you. After a length of time or if conditions worsen or move you too quickly....then other aids help the visual search and the electronic stuff is best if it will ping again while rescuers are on or near scene.

 

[heysteve]

On the EPIRB front, I just had to buy a new one and found out you can now get a version that also transmits and AIS signal. This seems like a terrific way to allow boats within receiving range to locate the device once in the vicinity.

Here is the ACR device.

 

[NaClyDog]

Why is it that only the occasional ping from the PLB is received (at least from what I'm seeing based on this particular search)? Is this an issue with the devices and their transmission power? Is this an issue with the satellites not being close enough (i.e. directly overhead)? Or maybe atmospheric conditions (e.g. cloud cover)?

 

[psneeld]

It is pretty complex how position is acquired (2 ways-GPS geostationary sats and doppler polar orbiting sats). Not so much technically, but factors that limit it.

As I posted before, there needs to be a better understanding of not only the COSPAT-SARSAT system of detection, but the entire global SAR system to make sure all users (both boaters and rescuers) understand the capabilities and limitations of it.

I don't know of a consolidated informational site, but here are links to the COSPAT-SARSAT system.

https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/cospas-sarsat-system-overview/

https://cospas-sarsat.int/en/system-overview/cospas-sarsat-system

 

[psneeld]

I noted this out of a soundings article.....

https://www.soundingsonline.com/news/plb-vs-epirb-which-is-right-for-you

"Once you turn on either your EPIRB or PLB, leave it on until you're rescued. Wahler says it's not a good idea to turn a beacon off to try and conserve battery life. To the Coast Guard, activating and then deactivating one looks more like a possible hoax than someone in distress, Wahler says. "There's plenty of battery power," he says."

But with all advice that seems "one size fits all".... my advice is run it through your common sense filter if your situation isn't like most.

 

[sunchaser]

That’s how they work in the US too. NOAA is the registry. If you EPIRB isn’t registered, then get on it.

Yes. Quite common and mandatory in many settings.

My first search and rescue experience with an EPIRB was in 1989. A mining operation supply plane went down on the BC -Yukon - Alaska border. A Russian satellite picked up the signal, informed Canada and Canada called the USCG out of Juneau. A helicopter out of Juneau picked up the plane's 5 occupants and returned them to the remote mine site, all alive. The headline in the Vancouver Sun was "Super Powers Save Flyers"

The technology has been around for a long time but many boaters are cheap and don't buy them, keep the registry updated and replace the battery on a timely basis. I'd hazard a guess this speaks to the vast majority of TFites.

 

[psneeld]

Florida gives a discount on annual boat registration with proof of beacon ownership.

 

[Hippocampus]

Excellent news. Hopefully a vessel will divert to put eyes balls on him and directly interact. The 48h for epirb and 24h for PLBs is the minimum guaranteed not he maximum. Both have on off switches and he could have it on periodically to extend time before battery exhaustion.

Totally agree there’s been a sufficient enough upgrade in performance it’s worthwhile to reup on beacons. Think many will do that which is all to the good. Still contend coastal is different than blue water. For blue water would have hand held Satphone, epirb and PLBs with gps/AIS for every crew. Along with two charged VHFs and a double floored ocean rated raft with a fully stocked ditch bag. Also your choice of satellite breadcrumbs, text and distress device. For coastal think the two handheld VHFs combined AIS/gps PLBs for each crew a ditch bag and single floor/tube raft suffices. We haven’t even done float plans when in the ICW. Seems overkill. Just glad in this event he was sufficiently outfitted.

This event wants on for days and days. Coastal I think it’s unlikely it would go on for more than 24hrs. I was called overdue and search was called off. we were able to self rescue. We were 8 day past our eta. Was going SW harbor to Duxbury but ended up in Situate. A coastal transit. However that was several decades ago. Tech has moved forward as well as SAR capabilities. That was in the gulf of Maine with multiple rescue services available. Think it very unlikely that would happen in this day and age.

If I was coastal in the western, southern or eastern Caribbean I’d outfit as though I was on passage. Same for the north shore of Brazil and many other places. Each boat and each passage is different. Need to assess risk in that context. For instance the prior sentence is incomplete. If just doing the circuit in the BVIs where nav is line of site and there’s no need for even a MFD the coastal set up would be plenty.

Every year I’m reviewing the registration for our beacons and editing as necessary. When on passage our beacons registration match the people monitoring us. It’s easy to do.

 

[CharlieO.]

Where are the coordinates in comparison to where the search area was concentrated?

 

[sunchaser]

H
Your definition of coastal is much different than mine especially when in remote BC and AK waters. Don't be cheap, be safe and get and register a proper EPIRB.

Please note, a 500 word essay is not needed.

 

[guy with a boat]

H
Your definition of coastal is much different than mine especially when in remote BC and AK waters. Don't be cheap, be safe and get and register a proper EPIRB.

Please note, a 500 word essay is not needed.

Our definitions of coastal and other passages are shaped by our own experiences.

As a guy who has done a little boating in the Atlantic from the Caribe to Nova Scotia and that other ocean from Mexico to Alaska, I include BC and AK as remote waters. We carry 2 EPIRBs and 2 PLBs as well as an offshore liferaft and lots of VHFs. Currently lying Ketchikan and headed north.

 

[sunchaser]

Guy
+1

 

[DDW]

DDW you are so out of date!

Actually you are the one out of date. Yes an EPIRB gives SAR your position as long as the battery holds up (so does a butt dialed 911 call). That is all the information SAR gets.

With any of the sat comm devices (all of which post date EPRIB technology) SAR gets position data. But in addition to that, you can send SMS messages stating the nature of your distress, the urgency, what is actually needed, how many people are involved. They can send back queries that may be relevant to the situation: is this an actual emergency? do you need pumps? fire extiguishers? is it possible to helo extract? medical help/advice? etc. etc. Perhaps the primary value of this is confirming that it is in fact an emergency situation and not a butt dial - butt dials are VERY common in EPRIBs.

In addition to that, the battery life of the sat com device is much longer that any EPRIB. They are typically left on to leave a bread crumb trail of fixes for the entire voyage so that even in the event of sudden incapacitation of all resources, there is a starting point for SAR.

Take this case in point. SAR has a couple of fixes from a PLB and no other information. Partly disabled but proceeding towards destination? Floating in the water in a survival suit? Accidental triggering of PLB? Nobody knows. With a sat com, all of this would be known. The rower could be informed of when and where to expect contact with rescuers.