The 36th Americas Cup

[FF]

"whats stopping the defender to demand that
J Class boats race in the America's. I think seeing 120 foot J Class boats would be a lot more classy, and elitist then those crazy foiling catermarans."




I love the idea as the J boats would live after the race , instead of being scrap.

A couple saved in the same harbor would mean head boat racing for day trippers.

 

[OldDan1943]

"whats stopping the defender to demand that
J Class boats race in the America's. I think seeing 120 foot J Class boats would be a lot more classy, and elitist then those crazy foiling catermarans."

I love the idea as the J boats would live after the race , instead of being scrap.

A couple saved in the same harbor would mean head boat racing for day trippers.

Let's face it, the J-boats and foil boats are designed for the AC race. They are built for speed not comfort. After the race they are of little value to anyone other than for "historic" viewing.
These boats are labor intensive to run..... I'm not sure who could afford to keep a crew on call for 'day boating'.

The last thing I heard about trickling down to everyday boater was the 'winged keel' and I haven't heard much about that keel since a year or two after the race.

 

[darkside]

You can already day trip on old and slow AC boats if you want to:
https://www.exploregroup.co.nz/destinations/auckland/sailing/americas-cup-sailing/

 

[koliver]

They are holding what they are calling a repechage, rather like they do in rowing. This will allow Patriot to sail off against the boat that comes second out of the current two - they being Ineos Britannia, and Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli. Try saying that last one rapidly with dry lips..!
The winner of that repechage will then sail off against the winner of the current round robin, which on the face of it is going to be Ineos Britannia.

Peter
They have finished the Round Robin. Ineos UK were undefeated in 5 actual races and one "ghost race" in which the ghost was the US, so 6 wins for UK, v 3 for IT ( 2 actual wins and one ghost win) and 0 for US.
Next is the semi finals of the Prada Cup series, now known to be sailed by IT v US, starting Friday. Then the finals of Prada Cup go on Feb 13 between the Semi winner and UK.

 

[BeeJay]

Yep - the winner and challenger of record could decide on J boats if they wanted.

 

[PNW Drifter]

I really like the foiling monohulls. A huge step up in speed (vs monohull) and entertainment, and ramps up the high tech element, like in Formula 1 car racing.

I never liked the catamarans.

It is most definitely still sailing. Teamwork, boat handling, navigation, trimming, reading the shifts still matter.

That last real (not ghost) race was the best yachting race I've ever seen. This is the future of yacht races. I just wish they could do this every year.


Hmmmm, maybe I can put a foil on my dinghy...

 

[mvweebles]

The American boat Patriot has been splashed. Quick 30 second video should her. I grabbed a screenshot of a graphic thanking their competitors for the help and support. Says a lot about the sport.


https://youtu.be/pnheCZZW4HQ

 

[OldDan1943]

The American boat Patriot has been splashed. Quick 30 second video should her. I grabbed a screenshot of a graphic thanking their competitors for the help and support. Says a lot about the sport.


https://youtu.be/pnheCZZW4HQView attachment 113445

A bit of gallows humor.

That is one fast tow..... got up on foils without sails

 

[koliver]

The American boat Patriot has been splashed. Quick 30 second video should her. I grabbed a screenshot of a graphic thanking their competitors for the help and support. Says a lot about the sport.


https://youtu.be/pnheCZZW4HQView attachment 113445

Watching that series of AM 2.0 shows the crew punishing the boat just to be sure she will be better than before!
The first start of the best of 7 semi finals (first to 4 wins takes it) is tonight (in NZ it is Friday already) at between 5 and 7 pm PST. Promises to be a very close series.

 

[Jeff F]

Hmmmm, maybe I can put a foil on my dinghy...

It's not that hard!

https://foilsz.com/

 

[Peter B]

Ok Guys, the repechage type of semi-finals have started, between Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli. (Henceforth referred to as LRPP for obvious reasons), and Patriot, the American Magic boat. The winner of this best of 7 series then races Ineos Britannia for the right to be the challenger to sail against Team NZ. That will be a best of 9 races I think.

If you don't want to know the outcome of the first two races, don't read the next few lines, ok..?

Ok, you looked, so...LRPP are 2-0, but the US boat Patriot was clearly still getting settled in and sorting some things out after such quick repairs, and did clock the fastest ever speed so far of 53.3 knots. That's actually 60mph, or ~ 100kph, so it's really moving, and a real positive.
They had some rudder issues, and they really have to nail the starts to have much chance, but bearing in mind what the American boat did back in San Francisco, you would never count them out yet, as it is a best of 7 series this one.

However, if they lose both races tomorrow, they are gone, sadly. Personally, even though I still feel part Kiwi, and hate to say this, but I think they need a better starting helmsman than Dean Barker. But that's just my view. But he is weak at the starts, especially up against Jimmie Spithill, and remember which boats they were skippering when the US boat made that amazing comeback from about 8 races down in San Fran. Just sayin'...

Ok, for those who don't remember, or never knew, Spithill (an Aussie) was skippering the US foiling catamaran Oracle, and Barker, (Kiwi) the Team NZ boat. Go figure...

 

[OldDan1943]

Ok Guys, the repechage type of semi-finals have started, between Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli. (Henceforth referred to as LRPP for obvious reasons), and Patriot, the American Magic boat. The winner of this best of 7 series then races Ineos Britannia for the right to be the challenger to sail against Team NZ. That will be a best of 9 races I think.

If you don't want to know the outcome of the first two races, don't read the next few lines, ok..?

Ok, you looked, so...LRPP are 2-0, but the US boat Patriot was clearly still getting settled in and sorting some things out after such quick repairs, and did clock the fastest ever speed so far of 53.3 knots. That's actually 60mph, or ~ 100kph, so it's really moving, and a real positive.
They had some rudder issues, and they really have to nail the starts to have much chance, but bearing in mind what the American boat did back in San Francisco, you would never count them out yet, as it is a best of 7 series this one.

However, if they lose both races tomorrow, they are gone, sadly. Personally, even though I still feel part Kiwi, and hate to say this, but I think they need a better starting helmsman than Dean Barker. But that's just my view. But he is weak at the starts, especially up against Jimmie Spithill, and remember which boats they were skippering when the US boat made that amazing comeback from about 8 races down in San Fran. Just sayin'...

Ok, for those who don't remember, or never knew, Spithill (an Aussie) was skippering the US foiling catamaran Oracle, and Barker, (Kiwi) the Team NZ boat. Go figure...

If the US blows the start again, the race is lost.
Didn't the US 'relieve'/fire the original skipper? That guy just could not position the boat for a good start.

 

[koliver]

American Magic trailed Luna Rossa by less in the first loss than in the second, yet had done a 360° in the out of bounds in the first race. That difference would have been much greater without that 360. The commentary suggested that the high speed of 53.3 knots was the problem, as they hadn't ever gone that fast, so the foil behaviour at that high speed was new to them.
My hydrodynamics isn't that good, but it does seem to me that there shouldn't be a sudden difference in handling at higher speed, but just a gradual difference.
Today's racing will either show a big difference for the US or see them making travel arrangements.

 

[darkside]

Patriots rudder lets go in the very light winds to cause the splash downs and also strong winds. Look at the wheel shaking in Barkers hands in any breeze. Something isn't set up correctly.
Ineos was out practicing as well yesterday. Just fantastic to be sharing the harbour with these guys

 

[Peter B]

Yes, you looky booger. Maybe I'll get over there next time..? Unless, of course, it finally goes back to England. On reflection, I could live with that. Even Italy deserves to hold it for a bit, as reward for being the most persistent in their attempts in the modern era. I suspect the US won't be taking it back this time - but I've been wrong before...

 

[OldDan1943]

Yes, you looky booger. Maybe I'll get over there next time..? Unless, of course, it finally goes back to England. On reflection, I could live with that. Even Italy deserves to hold it for a bit, as reward for being the most persistent in their attempts in the modern era. I suspect the US won't be taking it back this time - but I've been wrong before...

It would be nice if England wins the cup after all these years.

 

[menzies]

First youse guys.

It isn't England, it's the United Kingdom - as in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Secondly, regarding it "going back" to the UK, The "America's Cup" has never been in the UK.

The first race was around the Isle of Wright for the One Hundred Pounds Cup. It was won by the yacht America, after which it was renamed America's Cup. The UK has never won it so it never was in the UK as the Americas Cup.

 

[OldDan1943]

First youse guys.

It isn't England, it's the United Kingdom - as in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Secondly, regarding it "going back" to the UK, The "America's Cup" has never been in the UK.

The first race was around the Isle of Wright for the One Hundred Pounds Cup. It was won by the yacht America, after which it was renamed America's Cup. The UK has never won it so it never was in the UK as the Americas Cup.

I stand correct ...... Yes, after the 1st race it was renamed. I'd like to see the cup returned "home."

 

[PNW Drifter]

hoping USA makes it a close race, and goes to 7.

But the would like to see the cup go to UK, back to its origins.

 

[menzies]

If it does go back to the UK I can guarantee you one thing.

The next competition won't be in January!

 

[Peter B]

Secondly, regarding it "going back" to the UK, The "America's Cup" has never been in the UK.

The first race was around the Isle of Wright for the One Hundred Pounds Cup. It was won by the yacht America, after which it was renamed America's Cup. The UK has never won it so it never was in the UK as the Americas Cup.

Correct, but it was called the 'One Hundred Guineas Cup'. Just sayin'...and being a bit pedantic, but there is a difference. A guinea was = 21 shillings.

 

[menzies]

Watching race three now, US getting whooped.

 

[koliver]

Luna Rossa v Inios UK in 2 weeks

 

[bligh]

I could not think of anything more irrelevant and elitist than the America's Cup.

Said by a guy that owns a useless boat that burns copious amounts of diesel for purely selfish reasons.

 

[Peter B]

Ah well, I think now, with the US out, that it would not be inappropriate for the cup to end up with either the Italians, who tried the most to take it, and the Brits, who have never actually held it - or for it to stay with NZ for a bit because it's such a nice place to yacht race.

 

[koliver]

This forum is populated by owners and some wannaby owners of power boats, first and foremost, so it is no surprise that there are many here who have never raced sailboats, don't understand racing sailboats and have no interest in racing sailboats.
That is one reason why we have an "Ignore" function.

There are also some here who came from sail. That is not a small number. Among those are some who have actually raced sailboats, and many who know the rules for racing sailboats, and even some who don't know anything about racing, except to get excited when they can see a race well done.

To post remarks that emphasize ones level of ignorance of a particular sport, its difficulty, the level of expertise, sportsmanship, teamwork and glory is unfortunate and leads to those posters being put on others "ignore" lists.

In my view, having started in sail, raced in both dinghy and full size sail boats, the AC75s are exactly what they have tried to become, the fastest sailboat racing in history, demonstrating not only fantastic advances in sailing technology, but also the most comprehensive teamwork ever required in sailboat racing. This makes watching these races exciting and relevant. Advances in materials, tactics and teamwork will all trickle into sailing and even into power boating,

Many here are also fans of other sports. I don't read other sports' forums, nor do I post opinions there suggesting their irrelevance.

I have the next series of races on my calendar, starting Feb 13, when Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli and Ineos Team UK compete in a best of 13, so first to win 7 races wins that series and advances on to compete against Emirates Team New Zealand for the big prize, the Americas Cup.

 

[menzies]

Well that's all well and good but i do miss sail management which is absent in these boats.

I especially miss the spinnaker runs, especially on a beam, risk of broaching, gybing it, hitting the mark and having to get it down and the foresail up. To me that is one of the most skillful and challenging aspects of sailboat racing.

 

[koliver]

Well that's all well and good but i do miss sail management which is absent in these boats.

I especially miss the spinnaker runs, especially on a beam, risk of broaching, gybing it, hitting the mark and having to get it down and the foresail up. To me that is one of the most skillful and challenging aspects of sailboat racing.

When you look at the crew photos on each of the AC75s, they carry titles such as jib trimmer and main trimmer, so there is sail management going on. The camera at the stern shows the constant trimming of the main too.
On the UK boat, between races there were shots of one of the crew trying to deal with the cunningham adjuster, and some discussion of the extent of adjustment lost and its potential effect in that day's race.
Some of that discussion got me thinking that my Laser sail could be improved by applying some of what the AC75s are doing.
I wont go so far as to put it on a foil, though that possibility has existed for a few years.

 

[koliver]

Well that's all well and good but i do miss sail management which is absent in these boats.

I especially miss the spinnaker runs, especially on a beam, risk of broaching, gybing it, hitting the mark and having to get it down and the foresail up. To me that is one of the most skillful and challenging aspects of sailboat racing.

I agree that spinnakers add several elements that are both interesting and nice looking, but flying a chute at 40 knots isn't going to happen in 10 knots of wind. Also, foiling requires those speeds, just to stay up off the water, which in turn requires downwind sailing to be at wide angles off of directly downwind, to stay up on the foil.
Broaching still happens. That is what got American Magic. Now they need to figure out how to survive a broach at close to 50 knots.

 

[Jeff F]

Well that's all well and good but i do miss sail management which is absent in these boats.

I especially miss the spinnaker runs, especially on a beam, risk of broaching, gybing it, hitting the mark and having to get it down and the foresail up. To me that is one of the most skillful and challenging aspects of sailboat racing.

Have you watched TP52 racing? That's the genesis of the American AC effort. They reached one peak and make a jump for the next. I'm happy to follow along.

Here's some of that action
https://youtu.be/MSfSqBLLED0