The Ultimate Long Range Passagemaker for Two?

[Mako]

That way you can take more people and bring this forum back to boating? What a concept, back to boating. LOL

But thread drift is soooo entertaining!

 

[kthoennes]

I'll need to make sure my videocam is rolling to capture the look on my wife's face when I suggest she pee in a cup in a small airplane.

 

[hollywood8118]

Didn't they used to call the Bonanza the "Doctor Killer"? All because of that V-tail configuration

it was "forked tail doctor killer"

before the issues were known and the AD's that fixed the issues they did have the tails flown off a few of them. Still a great plane.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[OldDan1943]

I'll need to make sure my videocam is rolling to capture the look on my wife's face when I suggest she pee in a cup in a small airplane.

Tell her, ‘Just like in the doctor’s office.’ LOL

 

[Solly]

Come on guys !!! This is a boating forum. It would have to be a PBY Catalina....

 

[Carl Martin]

Come on guys !!! This is a boating forum. It would have to be a PBY Catalina....

Absolutely!

 

[Amadeus]

Do people regularly fly single engine planes to Hawaii? Small twins like yours?

Brian, people that are interested in doing an around the world trip regularly make the trip from California to Hawaii. However, it requires a specially equipped aircraft flying in an overgross load condition. Auxiliary tanks are a must and not many aircraft models can pull it off. Generally, the FAA will approve a 10%-15% overgross condition for ferrying. There is a great web site dedicated to the people who have flown small aircraft around the world. earthrounders.com

 

[La Sirena]

Good thing it has a get home engine.

 

[Amadeus]

Hey this Amadeus guy is onto a cool idea, but let's take it to the next step... RV'ing in an airplane while traveling to remote areas around the world. Take one of those amazing DC-3s and fit out the interior like a camper with berths, a galley, real bathroom with a shower. Big tundra tires on her!

But I suppose you'd have to gimbal the stove, dinette and bed, otherwise everything would just slide off at a 20° angle when sitting on the ground

Just like a boat every aircraft is a compromise. The DC-3 is old technology and burns 100 gallons an hour in flight. A good used one is over $1 million, has 1250 nm range (our goal is 3000 nm) and a low time example has 20,000 hours on it. There are about 300 still flying. You certainly could put an RV type interior in it.

The best example of a flying RV is a Grumman Albatross that a guy restored in the 90s. It has the range, and he put a great interior in it as well as a dive compressor and scuba gear. He flew it around the world stopping at terrific isloated dive spots and diving out of a RIB he would inflate at each stop. It was a very expensive trip.

The Achillies heel of that plan is something most people don't think about - anchoring. You can't put an electric windlass and a heavy anchor and chain in the bow of an airplane, which is CG sensitive. It's strictly a light weight anchor and muscle power to retrieve it. An Albatross has a lot of windage, and when the wind comes up, it's a big problem. A friend of mine who owned one would beach it whenever possible.

 

[Adopo]

Last year we purchased a new DA40NG and love it. It would be nice to run the twin but for our mission the 6.5 GPH is nice. The diesel is incredible and is much smoother than the gas variant. We plan to either purchase a larger trawler or charter. Thinking of doing NW Explorations to get started.

Flew to Georgetown SC for a few days and back to Clemson just yesterday. What, five hours in traffic vs 1:30 at worse rate.....?

 

[PNK]

I don't know anything about flying airplanes, but just read about your company, and the submersible you built that recently carried a "pilot" who became the first to reach the deepest trench in each of the 5 oceans. That is a truly remarkable achievement!

 

[Amadeus]

That plane looks pretty sweet and the idea of exploring with a plane sounds incredibly exciting. I showed the post to my husband because I thought it was so interesting, and he actually said he thought of a similar idea, but the plane that came to his mind was a Cessna caravan. I knew this forum would bring inspiring ideas. What were some planes you considered before settling on this one? Was the Diesel a big factor?

Hello Bethany, there is a group of people that have done RTWs in light aircraft at earthrounders.com Also, I have a Web site that discusses various options at rtw-adventure.com

The vast majority of light aircraft are payload limited. You can't fill the fuel tanks and fill the seats and fly. If you want to fill the seats you have to leave some fuel behind. So, finding an aircraft that can safely carry enough fuel to make a long 2100 nm leg is challenging. Turbine aircraft must be flown high to be efficient and they have very high specific fuel consumption, so they are not a good choice. A jet that will go 3000 nm must also fly high, which depletes the purpose of seeing the landscape, and are hugely expensive. That leaves recipricating engine powered aircraft, either using avgas or diesel. Avgas availability is difficult in some countries but diesel powered aircraft are as of yet, very rare. Jet-A and diesel are ubiquitous and the specific fuel consumption of aviation diesels are 40% less than avgas burning varieties.

We have evaluated a bunch of aircraft over several years. The final choices are:

A Diamond DA-42 Vi twin, burning Jet-A, or the slightly larger DA-62 Vi
A G36 or A36 Bonanza with 100 gallon Dolly Parton tip tanks
A Sling TSI with a Rotax 915 IS which will burn auto gas or 100LL

And, of course, a new Elling E4 for the Great Loop!

 

[Amadeus]

Last year we purchased a new DA40NG and love it. It would be nice to run the twin but for our mission the 6.5 GPH is nice. The diesel is incredible and is much smoother than the gas variant. We plan to either purchase a larger trawler or charter. Thinking of doing NW Explorations to get started.

Flew to Georgetown SC for a few days and back to Clemson just yesterday. What, five hours in traffic vs 1:30 at worse rate.....?

Adopo, I'm with you. Diamond builds great aircraft and the designs are actually contemporary. I'm also very interested in the new DA-50, the larger single engine variant that could seat up to 7. I think it would be a great around the world aircraft if they get it certified in a timely manner.

You've got to love the operating cost of that DA-40. Enjoy!

 

[Amadeus]

I don't know anything about flying airplanes, but just read about your company, and the submersible you built that recently carried a "pilot" who became the first to reach the deepest trench in each of the 5 oceans. That is a truly remarkable achievement!

PNK, thanks. It has been an interesting project, that is for sure. Our support crew leaves to meet the ship in Guam this week to start the Ring of Fire Expedition to dive to more deep trenches in the Pacific, including several more dives to Challenger Deep, at 10,924 meters, 35,839 feet. The ambient hydrostatic pressure at that depth is 16,000 lbs per square inch. The amount of pressure on the passenger compartment is equivalent to a stack of 292 fully loaded and fueled 747s.

More info at tritonsubs.com and fivedeeps.com

I better sign off as the deepest diving sub in human history isn't a deep diving trawler and I don't want to offend anyone more than I apparently already have...

 

[AdkChris]

Have not been following aviation developments lately. Interesting to see diesel engines getting more use. Who was it who had the same idea around 2005 to use a Mercedes diesel and rework it for aviation. As I recall the the technology was there but not the company management. Reminds me of the Lehr engines.

If I had the coin the DA-42 is an interesting plane. I would have liked to fly the 2 seat DA-20 trainer version but at 6'4" I would have to be on the skinny side to make the weight requirements. Never saw a DA-42 at the airport but there were several DA-20's around. The DA-20 just seemed to fly so light & effortlessly.

 

[Amadeus]

I'll need to make sure my videocam is rolling to capture the look on my wife's face when I suggest she pee in a cup in a small airplane.

My porta-potti is built into a seat in the back of an airplane. But I take your point, a cup would be cheaper. If that works for you, go for it.

 

[Amadeus]

Have not been following aviation developments lately. Interesting to see diesel engines getting more use. Who was it who had the same idea around 2005 to use a Mercedes diesel and rework it for aviation. As I recall the the technology was there but not the company management. Reminds me of the Lehr engines.

If I had the coin the DA-42 is an interesting plane. I would have liked to fly the 2 seat DA-20 trainer version but at 6'4" I would have to be on the skinny side to make the weight requirements. Never saw a DA-42 at the airport but there were several DA-20's around. The DA-20 just seemed to fly so light & effortlessly.

The DA-40 is slightly larger and more capable than the DA-20. It's a terrific airplane and I am sure you would fit in it. The DA-40 NG sips fuel and has good range, payload and performance.

 

[BrianSmith]

<snip>

Happy to answer any questions if you're intrigued.

Just one: can my wife and I have it when you guys are done? (We're both instrument rated, and miss flying a lot, while we're doing the boat thing for several years.)

 

[Amadeus]

Just one: can my wife and I have it when you guys are done? (We're both instrument rated, and miss flying a lot, while we're doing the boat thing for several years.)

Terrific that both of you are pilots. We don't see that very often. Enjoy the cruising!

 

[BrianG]

The DA-40 is slightly larger and more capable than the DA-20. It's a terrific airplane and I am sure you would fit in it. The DA-40 NG sips fuel and has good range, payload and performance.

what is the rule of thumb for fuel use? Save 1/3 in reserve? Do single engines trek to hawaii? have you drilled flying on one engine?? I've heard there's a trick to it.

 

[Amadeus]

what is the rule of thumb for fuel use? Save 1/3 in reserve? Do single engines trek to hawaii? have you drilled flying on one engine?? I've heard there's a trick to it.

Brian if there was a single engine diesel powered aircraft that could do the Hawaii trip I would buy it without hesitation. The reliability is very good. Diamond is coming out with the DA-50 which could work well for us but it is still in certification.

I use 1.5 hours reserve plus 10% of the estimated fuel. On the Hawaii leg, that turns out to be about 3 hours of fuel on a 12.5 hour trip. That's about 30 gallons in reserve. Of course, you watch the winds aloft forecast very closely and you can get that info in near real time in the cockpit through a satellite link. If you get half way and you are burning more fuel than planned you turn around and fly home.

Single engines do the Hawaii trip periodically. A number of earthrounders will opt for shorter legs and so they go East through Nova Scotia, Labrador, Greenland, Iceland and Scotland and then when they reach the Pacific they go to Japan and on to the Aleutians, Alaska, Canada, Seattle...

The biggest issue when flying a twin is if you lose an engine on takeoff. Training for that and dealing with the asymmetrical thrust is critical. Shutting down and feathering the bad engine on takeoff is a lot of work, and that double tasking is where the problems arise. However, the DA-42 engines are Fadec. There is no mixture control and no pitch control for the prop - it's all automated. So the workload is virtually eliminated with one lever instead of three. Pull the power and the prop is feathered automatically. It makes things much easier and safer.

 

[Salish Nomad]

I have a DA-42 that I fly on FSX. It's one of my all time favorite flight sim aircraft.

 

[garycasey]

Adventures

After years of offshore international passagemaking my wife now wants to do the Great Loop. Fair enough, I'm all in. But my aspirations of international travel in a private vehicle continue. So far, I've made it to 121 countries but there are still many places on my bucketlist and time rolls on with tedious inevitability.

Enter the passagemaking airplane. We have settled on a Diamond DA-42 twin engine aircraft, powered by twin Mercedes diesels that sip fuel, even at 190 knots. How about 13 hours from Seattle to Honolulu? Last time I did it on a boat it took 13 days.

I've been a pilot for many years, but when we decided to fly around the world in our own airplane my wife decided to get her pilot's certificate. She went to an accelerated program in a few weeks of flying every day (both planes and matching sims), she had her licence. We bought a small sport plane to build time together and refine our cockpit management techniques.

Flying long distances is interesting and unique. With the DA-42 and auxiliary fuel carried in the backseat, you can achieve a range of 3000 nm, which will take you just about anywhere in the world. And you can find fuel anywhere because instead of 100 LL Avgas you can burn diesel or Jetfuel (kerosene). We could fly around the world in a week if pressed, but a relaxing pace that involves anywhere between a day and a week at our destination ports results in a comfortable 3 month trip. Our route is Westbound over the Pacific and involves stopping at some of our favorite places to sail, the South Pacific. We intend to go from Coeur d'Alene to Monterey, CA to Hilo, HI and then Majuro, Pohnpei, Truk, Palau, New Guinea followed by a circumnavigation of Australia. Then it's on to Singapore, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Seychelles, Mauritius, Madagascar, South Africa, Namibia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Cape Verde Islands, Barbados, Puerto Rico, Vero Beach, FL, Kansas City and then home.

The plane has weather radar, air conditioning, flight into known ice capability and the latest electronics and radios. And the best way to see the world is from the air. Unlike a jet or turbine powered aircraft the DA-42 flies low where the view is best, but you have the power to fly above some weather and most any mountain range.

For various reasons I am done with long distance ocean passages by boat. But I'm not done traveling with my wife internationally with no schedule and the horizon ahead.

Happy to answer any questions if you're intrigued.

100% totally awesome adventure!!

 

[Ken E.]

YouTube has a couple video clips of the DA62 in a demo ride, the 6-place version of your plane.

 

[BrianG]

Brian if there was a single engine diesel powered aircraft that could do the Hawaii trip I would buy it without hesitation. The reliability is very good. Diamond is coming out with the DA-50 which could work well for us but it is still in certification.

I use 1.5 hours reserve plus 10% of the estimated fuel. On the Hawaii leg, that turns out to be about 3 hours of fuel on a 12.5 hour trip. That's about 30 gallons in reserve. Of course, you watch the winds aloft forecast very closely and you can get that info in near real time in the cockpit through a satellite link. If you get half way and you are burning more fuel than planned you turn around and fly home.

Single engines do the Hawaii trip periodically. A number of earthrounders will opt for shorter legs and so they go East through Nova Scotia, Labrador, Greenland, Iceland and Scotland and then when they reach the Pacific they go to Japan and on to the Aleutians, Alaska, Canada, Seattle...

The biggest issue when flying a twin is if you lose an engine on takeoff. Training for that and dealing with the asymmetrical thrust is critical. Shutting down and feathering the bad engine on takeoff is a lot of work, and that double tasking is where the problems arise. However, the DA-42 engines are Fadec. There is no mixture control and no pitch control for the prop - it's all automated. So the workload is virtually eliminated with one lever instead of three. Pull the power and the prop is feathered automatically. It makes things much easier and safer.

Thank you. Fascinating. What is the ditch procedure over the Pacific? Do you have a boater style liferaft? Growing up and living by the sea, I feel (wrongly) that there is no marine situation I couldn't survive. In the air I believe (also wrongly) the reverse is true.

 

[GBPunky]

He married the wrong woman.

True Statement.

 

[gregarious]

Remember Amelia

 

[Nickair]

Slick looking rig. This is more my speed:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/james-ketchell-gyrocopter-flight-scli-gbr-intl/index.html

This guy was at my airport Last summer. His adventure is amazing.

 

[Nightflyer]

Didn't they used to call the Bonanza the "Doctor Killer"? All because of that V-tail configuration

They were called that not because of the V tail but because a higher percentage of owners who crashed were doctors because they had the money to buy them but failed to know their limitations.

 

[Nightflyer]

My co worker was flying over to Hawaii ( corporate jet) and assisted a pilot needing a communication relay that he was going to ditch. The pilot was ferrying a Cirrus.

Many different YouTube posts, here’s one.

https://youtu.be/ditPzT-VqVw