Tip amounts for dock line handlers and fuel dock attendance?

[Comodave]

That's his job and it's the employers responsibility to pay them a proper wage from the profits from the product you have purchased.




Yep
And I absolutely HATE it when "Tipsters" who travel don't learn the culture or customs in other lands and tip extravagantly and now in some places it expected.

Part of the reason we'd rarely go to tourist areas.
You never experience it away from them, quite the opposite.
If I left small money on the table more often than not somone would come after us to give it back

And I suspect that people here that earn their living by tips hate it when people from other places come here and don’t learn the customs here and don’t tip. Same difference just reversed.

 

[Simi 60]

And I suspect that people here that earn their living by tips

Earning a living from tips?

 

[psneeld]

Earning a living from tips?

Back when I was a USCG helo pilot, mid-grade officer, many of the bartenders and cocktail waitresses working the casinos in Atlantic City, NJ made way more money than I did as reported and personally knowing a few.

 

[mvweebles]

......
And I absolutely HATE it when "Tipsters" who travel don't learn the culture or customs in other lands and tip extravagantly and now in some places it expected......

Maybe you should recommend these places inform their Tipsters with placards?

 

[Bmarler]

As stated in a previous post, in the PNW, the only time anyone has ever helped us tie up, it was fellow boaters on the dock, none of which expected a tip. I often offer to help people with lines, but I say to them, tell me exactly what you want me to do!

I've had people who, while well intentioned, felt that any dock line they handle has to immediately be cleated off TIGHT to the closest available cleat . . . regardless of what the boat is doing . . .

And I’ve trotted down the dock to assist a skipper who gives me a mid ship line and instructs me to tie it straight down to the dock cleat. Are you sure skipper? I said, as I tied it off, grunt was the reply.
I wanted to give him a tip…

 

[mvweebles]

And I’ve trotted down the dock to assist a skipper who gives me a mid ship line and instructs me to tie it straight down to the dock cleat. Are you sure skipper? I said, as I tied it off, grunt was the reply.

I wanted to give him a tip…

I've used a breast line often as a first line down. My thinking is it keeps the ends of the boat from swinging out. Should not be left in place long term. Am I doing something wrong?

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I've used a breast line often as a first line down. My thinking is it keeps the ends of the boat from swinging out. Should not be left in place long term. Am I doing something wrong?

Peter

It depends on the boat and your cleat placement. Sometimes it works well, other times not so much.

On my boat, with the shape of the hull sides and the spring cleat placement, a breast line will pull the bow in a bit and leave the stern away from the dock. It ends up being better to put take an aft spring off the spring cleat, give 2 turns on the wheel to point the rudders away from the dock (2.6 turns is full lock) and put the dock-side engine in forward, which does a good job of pinning the boat against the dock evenly, even with 20 kts blowing the boat straight off the dock.

 

[Bmarler]

I've used a breast line often as a first line down. My thinking is it keeps the ends of the boat from swinging out. Should not be left in place long term. Am I doing something wrong?

Peter

This boat had high cleat placement, and the line was exactly straight down about 6 feet or so. Really poor purchase, and with the wave action of the harbor it just sat there and jerked every time it came taught.
I should have given more context.
I just expected, with his configuration that he’d instruct me to a forward or aft cleat for him to power against. This cleat did nothing to keep the boat against the dock.

 

[mvweebles]

It depends on the boat and your cleat placement. Sometimes it works well, other times not so much.

On my boat, with the shape of the hull sides and the spring cleat placement, a breast line will pull the bow in a bit and leave the stern away from the dock. It ends up being better to put take an aft spring off the spring cleat, give 2 turns on the wheel to point the rudders away from the dock (2.6 turns is full lock) and put the dock-side engine in forward, which does a good job of pinning the boat against the dock evenly, even with 20 kts blowing the boat straight off the dock.

Sometimes using a breast line can be a bit messy, but at least some portion of the boat is close to the dock. I find it useful for single/short handed. Since well-meaning dock helpers tend to over-tighten lines (usually the bow line which kicks the stern out and leaves you stranded), maybe a breast line might be a good way to have them help......and actually help?

Idle-forward against a spring definitely depends on individual boat cleat placement. Many boats have 6 cleats, with the bow cleats very close to the stem. Fine for mooring, often useless for springing (except to intentionally swing the stern out). Also, the dock cleat has to be far aft in relation to the bow cleats which may not be practical, and you'd need a knowledgeable dockland to choreograph.

Years ago when I was using Weebles as a teaching platform for close quarters, I installed an extra set of cleats halfway between bow and midship. Perhaps these are what you're referring to as Spring Cleats. Whatever they're called, they are extremely useful on my boat. I rarely use the bow cleats, even for mooring.

Apologies for the thread drift. Regular programming can be resumed....or not

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Sometimes using a breast line can be a bit messy, but at least some portion of the boat is close to the dock. I find it useful for single/short handed. Since well-meaning dock helpers tend to over-tighten lines (usually the bow line which kicks the stern out and leaves you stranded), maybe a breast line might be a good way to have them help......and actually help?

Idle-forward against a spring definitely depends on individual boat cleat placement. Many boats have 6 cleats, with the bow cleats very close to the stem. Fine for mooring, often useless for springing (except to intentionally swing the stern out). Also, the dock cleat has to be far aft in relation to the bow cleats which may not be practical, and you'd need a knowledgeable dockland to choreograph.

Years ago when I was using Weebles as a teaching platform for close quarters, I installed an extra set of cleats halfway between bow and midship. Perhaps these are what you're referring to as Spring Cleats. Whatever they're called, they are extremely useful on my boat. I rarely use the bow cleats, even for mooring.

Apologies for the thread drift. Regular programming can be resumed....or not

Peter

My bow cleats are definitely too far forward for a spring, but the spring cleats work well for it. Generally, the spring line gets handed off pretty far aft (or the admiral steps off with it aft) so it's starting out near an appropriate cleat. And any dock hand helping with this process is told explicitly what cleat to put the line on.

 

[psneeld]

This boat had high cleat placement, and the line was exactly straight down about 6 feet or so. Really poor purchase, and with the wave action of the harbor it just sat there and jerked every time it came taught.
I should have given more context.
I just expected, with his configuration that he’d instruct me to a forward or aft cleat for him to power against. This cleat did nothing to keep the boat against the dock.

I guessed that's what you meant.

I find just about any line cleated straight down is useless and has the danger of pulling a cleat or breaking the horns off (more common than one would think).

 

[mvweebles]

This boat had high cleat placement, and the line was exactly straight down about 6 feet or so. Really poor purchase, and with the wave action of the harbor it just sat there and jerked every time it came taught.

I should have given more context.

I just expected, with his configuration that he’d instruct me to a forward or aft cleat for him to power against. This cleat did nothing to keep the boat against the dock.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

Back to the original topic, I've docked in hundreds of places on both coasts and a smattering of places in Central America. For the most part, it's pretty easy to develop an appropriate tipping strategy. If there are people hanging around who's sole job seems to be helping land boats, they live on tips. In central america, not unusual to have two or three people show up. Honestly, im never sure what to tell that many people to do, and my spanish isnt good enough to wave them off, so i mostly do what they tell me to do which seems to work out fine (typically, people keep these jobs for years in many parts of the world). But if someone shows up to help you land at a fuel dock and disappears, tipping is not expected.

Price of a beer is my yardstick for a tip, mainly because that's how I'll present it "have a beer or coffee on me....." probably needs to increase from $5 to $10 these days....

Peter

 

[Shrew]

Tipping in the hospitality/food industry is one thing as it has evolved that way. Above or below that 15% is just personal "feelings"... I have huge heartburn tipping a breakfast diner waitress just a few bucks after 10 trips or so to the table based on a measly breakfast cost and paying 15-20% to a food server at a higher than average dinner restaurant for a mediocre dinner with marginal service. I try to tip "fair" not canned.

This is so true. It's the same number of steps and amount of time each time the restaurant server stops at your table, or has to get you something. I keep in the back of my mind how many times we make them make a 'round trip' (drink, napkins, replacement fork, side of mayo, etc). The more trips they make, the more I round up. I start at 20% because the math is easy (especially after a few drinks). If they're horrible, (she never came back with those napkins) I round down.

The same goes for fuel docks. It's relatively the same labor to catch lines whether it's a 28 ft boat or a 48 ft boat. Whether you pump 5 gallons or 500 gallons. Now, if I end up tying myself up because there's nobody around, tip is closer to 5. If they're there catching and pushing off, making fast multiple lines. then closer to $10.

 

[koliver]

Other than that, you do your own pump-outs, pump your own fuel, and dock hands are few and far between. I get the idea that it’s illegal for someone else to pump fuel for you in WA, BC, and AK.

I had the owner of a fuel outlet in Silva Bay explain to me that if I put the fuel can on the dock I wasn't to fill it, as it was her responsibility, but the built in tank in my dinghy was where I must be the one to fill it.

Tipping, what is that? Oh that thing they do in Merica.

 

[SteveK]

Recently took notice of tip jars at fast food locations, where the tip is indeed intended to support the minimum wage employee.
Along with others I question why we tip on the % of the bill. As prices have increased so has the suggested tip % on those card machines. Why?
Dinner out for two used to be under $100 ten years ago, now near $200. Has the average income doubled? Then why are we tipping by %?

 

[Cold Duck]

Not the same as a dock hand that pumps 400 gallons of fuel or 80 gallons of your sewage. Or helps you tie up when it is blowing 35 to 40…

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. BTW, I can't remember ever having a dock boy put fuel in any of my boats and I've pumped over 1000 gallons at a time. I can't imagine a fuel dock giving a 18-20 year old the responsibility for a fuel spill when it can all be the boat owner's responsibility. I have had a dock boy hand me the nozzle, but I cannot remember once that they pumped fuel into any boat I have ever had. Most boats have tanks both sides so hose has to go across boat to get both tanks. Now I am talking owner/operator boats, not 70+ footers with crew so have no idea there. Most all the fuel docks now are self serve with CC and no dock hands around. I realize things are different East Coast and West Coast and I haven't been on East Coast for 17 years, so if there are fuel docks where guys fuel your boats now, that's new to me. I wouldn't let them. All boats have quirks, some have to start slow or back splash etc. Our plane has 6 tanks, much more complicated than fueling a boat and I have never had a lineman ask for a tip or consider it in all the US I have flown. They just do their job with a lot more responsibility than dock boys. Sorry, tipping is a sore spot LOL.

 

[rslifkin]

I've only ever encountered a single self-serve fuel dock without an attendant, but in general, the attendant just hands off the nozzle and the boat crew is responsible for filling the tanks. They take the nozzle back and handle payment when finished. I've never seen an attendant pump fuel.

 

[Cold Duck]

Now sometimes you just have to view the situation. We landed our plane in an out of the way dirt strip way down in Mexico. As we tied up a wrinkled old man with no teeth and a big machete came up, said watch your plane for $10? Gave him $5 and $5 when we left. Seemed prudent LOL!

 

[Cold Duck]

The new rage is when you pay by CC, the machine automatically asks for tip and starts at 18%, even for a Mac burger! This has gotten outta hand LOL! Now, waiters are a different matter. We have allowed the industry to not pay them what they are worth, so we have to tip to supplement their pay. Recently here in Hawaii the shortage of workers is critical, last restaurant I talked to the waiter who said they were operating at 50% staff. We bussed our own table, got our own water and still service was terribly slow. Normally small tip for crappy service but at least these guys showed up so we tipped good. A combination of social, political, economic pressures along with Covid has put us in a spot no one ever expected. Gotta bend the rules a bit.

 

[Cold Duck]

I've used a breast line often as a first line down. My thinking is it keeps the ends of the boat from swinging out. Should not be left in place long term. Am I doing something wrong?

Peter

Giving a dock boy a line from a Willard is dangerous at best LOL! Absolutely have to tell them just hold the line. How many times have you given them a bow line and they pull tight so stern swings horribly out of control? Ruins a perfect dock run! Been there done that with our Vega.

 

[psneeld]

My guess is most marinas make boat operators fuel their own boats is all about insurance and liability.

Many boats are not easily fuels by someone on the dock without boardind the vessel or being in a vulnerable pisition.

Too many times both operators or young,inexperienced fuel dock workers have put fuel in the wrong orifice.

The environmental laws are clear on fuel spills.....

I also have seen enty of fuel dock attendants assist and even fuel boats....despite it might be against marina policy...maybe looking for a nice tip.

Guess you just have to be around a lot of fuel docks day after day.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So my take from this thread is that PNW boaters don't typically tip, because there are seldom line handlers there to handle lines, because boaters in the PNW know how handle their vessels when docking . . .

While boaters on the East Coast don't know how to dock, frequently require line handlers to manhandle their boats in to the dock because even with multiple thrusters, twin engines, 15 satellite dishes, 5 GPS, and multiple steering stations, they can't seem to lay her alongside the moorings . . . . is that about it?

Funny! Almost true...

 

[Shrew]

My guess is most marinas make boat operators fuel their own boats is all about insurance and liability.

Many boats are not easily fuels by someone on the dock without boardind the vessel or being in a vulnerable pisition.

Too many times both operators or young, inexperienced fuel dock workers have put fuel in the wrong orifice.

.

I agree. I've never had a fuel dock hand actually fill any boat. They hand me the pump that I asked for. Good ones will say it as they hand it to you "Diesel" or "Gas". IF they don't, I say it as I'm taking it "Diesel, correct?"

I have to correct my wife all the time. "Please stop saying 'Gas' (generically) when you mean 'Diesel', they are two distinct things and they sell both". Both Gasoline and Diesel are also 'FUEL', however (again) they are absolutely not the same thing. I also don't love when 'Fuel' is used to mean 'Diesel'.

It's not some kids responsibility for figuring which of my 4 deck plates I need to onboard fuel through.

 

[Comodave]

I have had dock hands fuel my boat many times around here. I do keep a close eye and ear for the change in sound as it gets close to full.

 

[Simi 60]

Back when I was a USCG helo pilot, mid-grade officer, many of the bartenders and cocktail waitresses working the casinos in Atlantic City, NJ made way more money than I did as reported and personally knowing a few.

Yeah, that's one example.

It's not a guaranteed wage
It's an earn based on what people choose to throw at you on the day, much like a busker or a beggar
.
And if you were unfortunate enough to not be blessed with good looks, a startling personality or be in a prime location what then?

How does that help people get ahead in life with no stable income?
How do you get money from a bank to buy a home?
How do you even rent a home?

 

[rslifkin]

Yeah, that's one example.

It's not a guaranteed wage
It's an earn based on what people choose to throw at you on the day, much like a busker or a beggar
.
And if you were unfortunate enough to not be blessed with good looks, a startling personality or be in a prime location what then?

How does that help people get ahead in life with no stable income?
How do you get money from a bank to buy a home?
How do you even rent a home?

You've pretty much just summed up why the bar / restaurant industry has high turnover and has trouble getting enough employees. But you also see people that enjoy the job, are good at it, found the right place to work, and have been bartending or waiting tables for years and make pretty good money doing it. Of course, those people are the exception, not the rule.

 

[psneeld]

Yeah, that's one example.

It's not a guaranteed wage
It's an earn based on what people choose to throw at you on the day, much like a busker or a beggar
.
And if you were unfortunate enough to not be blessed with good looks, a startling personality or be in a prime location what then?

How does that help people get ahead in life with no stable income?
How do you get money from a bank to buy a home?
How do you even rent a home?

I think you have to live in a place a lifetime with many friends and acquaintances that explain why they do those kinds of jobs that require tips to survive.

It wouldn't be a choice for me, but for many, they love the lifestyle while they are young and for some, they lean the business and move into management at some point. Most others are only doing it as temp jobs as they are in a transitory period of their lives.

It's AMAZING how many youth travel from all over the world to places in the US for certain seasons to get jobs, many that are tipping jobs because they do very well taking care of the tourists. COVID shut that down for a couple years and it's impact was huge on the seasonal tourist places.

 

[rwidman]

We generally tip $5 per person. If one person did a lot, like help docking, fueling the boat and a pumpout, I would probably double that to $10.

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

Wonderful array of responses.

It’s been great to see the variations to tipping both here in our country and from other spots around the globe. I’ve learned about more than I sought with my original post.

Yesterday I went to the bank and got $200 in 5’s and $100 in 1’s, and will keep it in the drawer where I keep key to the deck fills.

Do those “key’s” have a name?

Thanks to all of you!

 

[rslifkin]

Do those “key’s” have a name?

I've always called them a "cap key" or "cap wrench".