Tornadoes

[Hippocampus]

Yesterday 4 tornadoes went through RI and southern MA. Strong enough to pick up a car and damage infrastructure/homes. A tropical storm is due to hit SoCal. With the expectation that due to man made climate change these previously unheard of events will continue has it changed your thinking about boating?

In my area both storm plans and winter storage have changed somewhat. To decrease expense and increase availability even large boats are placed on hydraulic trailers and stored a few miles inland. Previously that was thought to be safe from named storms. Tornadoes were never a concern. Apparently they are now.

As climate continues to change where is the point for you where it no longer becomes economical feasible? I expect insurance will continue to rise in expense and availability will continue to decrease with some primary berthing areas being uninsurable as well as some boats. Also expect further restrictions on cruising grounds by time of year, number of crew, and specific boat. Also further obligations as regards storm plans. What impact do you think these changes will have on the used boat market? Is the era of the middle class family cruising boat coming to an end?

 

[O C Diver]

There have been 4 tropical storms to hit California in the last 100 years, the most severe in 1939.

The last tornado to touch down in Rhode Island was 2019. The most severe were in 1986 when 3 touched down in a 24 hour period.

Massachusetts has had 152 tornadoes since 1950.

You should probably sell your boat while you still can.

Ted

 

[Hippocampus]

There’s a tornado alley that starts in RI and extends into western MA. Small tornadoes occur there time to time. But the current event hit places far away from that area and are quite novel. Tell me the last time there was a tornado in Weymouth, Stoughton, Attleboro, north providence, and Johnstown RI. Believe what you want but evidence supports the view something is up and it’s effecting the economics of boating.

Ok have a good time mimicking an ostrich. Hundred year events are now yearly and occurring year after year. Patterns are shifting. It is having and did have impact on our expenses. During hurricane season while cruising the Caribbean would either go north or south of the zone during the season. Then the zone borders changed. Then the season changed. Then the cost went way up. Number of available vendors went way down. Unless you degraded coverage started to get ridiculous. Requirements for storm plans got ridiculous. Left Pantaenius as their named storm requirements were so extreme.

In process of renewing insurance. Canada, east coast and Bahamas. Last year had no home port as we just wandered with the seasons. Seems now that’s a problem . Want to do the same this year. Broker trying to negotiate and find a suitable policy. May end up just picking the yard where we spent the most amount of time last year as the home port. Pretty much done with our restoration so don’t expect to be there in the next 12 months. Just silly.

You make one pass so given YOLO have no intention of selling the boat until I’m wheelchair bound. Neither is the boat considered a significant part of estate planning. Only mildly concerned about residual value. Figure my kids are ok and I’m dead so what. But I’m concerned if enough people give up on boating the infrastructure I need for my usage will start to disappear. So I’m interested in whether folks here are approaching their limits.

 

[O C Diver]

There’s a tornado alley that starts in RI and extends into western MA. Small tornadoes occur there time to time. But the current event hit places far away from that area and are quite novel. Tell me the last time there was a tornado in Weymouth, Stoughton, Attleboro, north providence, and Johnstown RI. Believe what you want but evidence supports the view something is up and it’s effecting the economics of boating.

Ok have a good time mimicking an ostrich. Hundred year events are now yearly and occurring year after year. Patterns are shifting. It is having and did have impact on our expenses. During hurricane season while cruising the Caribbean would either go north or south of the zone during the season. Then the zone borders changed. Then the season changed. Then the cost went way up. Number of available vendors went way down. Unless you degraded coverage started to get ridiculous. Requirements for storm plans got ridiculous. Left Pantaenius as their named storm requirements were so extreme.

In process of renewing insurance. Canada, east coast and Bahamas. Last year had no home port as we just wandered with the seasons. Seems now that’s a problem . Want to do the same this year. Broker trying to negotiate and find a suitable policy. May end up just picking the yard where we spent the most amount of time last year as the home port. Pretty much done with our restoration so don’t expect to be there in the next 12 months. Just silly.

You make one pass so given YOLO have no intention of selling the boat until I’m wheelchair bound. Neither is the boat considered a significant part of estate planning. Only mildly concerned about residual value. Figure my kids are ok and I’m dead so what. But I’m concerned if enough people give up on boating the infrastructure I need for my usage will start to disappear. So I’m interested in whether folks here are approaching their limits.

My response was based on your statement of "these previously unheard of events".

What's currently effecting boating is the cost of boats, the interest rate on boat mortgages, the rate of inflation, and the incompetence of the average boater as compared to the average skill level 25 years ago. As for insurance companies, they're tired of paying for people who are too stupid to move their boat out of harms way or figure it's an easy way to get rid of a boat. You unfortunately are lumped in with the average recreational boater and because of your age, the mistakes of seniors. Welcome to the new age of boating.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

Americans seem to have the worst memory when it comes to weather.

I find errors in the news all the time.

I think made made climate chsnge is real, but chicken littles often run scared of the wrong things.

I got out of cruising BECAUSE of too many boaters. RVing is just as bad.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I think I’ll start shopping around for submarines. Pretty much immune to tornadoes and hurricanes. NO Titanic dives for me.

 

[Jeff F]

Insurance companies are very concerned. There was a recent article in the NYT describing massive changes in the reinsurance business. It's these guys that are facing losses for catastrophic climate related events, and they're very nervous and raising their prices accordingly.

I think the age of middle class yachting has been over for a long time. But I have memberships at two small dinghy clubs that are doing just fine, with lots of enthusiastic members enjoying time on the water.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I dunno. For us just beginning.

Bought old boat in average condition. Berthed at good (concrete, floating, security cameras, locked and covered, free pump outs, bathrooms, washer and dryer) in CA Delta for $375/mo

Have liability only insurance for less than $500/yr.

Not worried about hurricanes, tsunamis, or earthquakes. Not worried about fire either on steel and cement dock surrounded by water.

I am in so far about 125 grand (including everything) and it was all cash mostly from market gains during the covid upswing. Yeah, when flush, blow that dough! Now maybe not so much.

So, I would say still alive but with "conditions" such as location and owner DIY ability and time.

 

[NSM]

Climate change is part of my lifestyle calculus these days. That was part of the decision to get a slow boat. My wife drives an electric car. I pay a little extra for all sustainable electricity at our house. We don’t fly as much.

On the boat front maybe I’ll cruise at 6 knots when I can instead of 7.5. Small things add up to leaving a better world for our great grandchildren.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

We're there not catastrophic storms during the early history of Earth? How many sailing ship wrecks litter the coasts due too inclement weather?
Climate change happens.
If you want to change your foreseen outcome of the world, make a drastic lifestyle change right now. Are you ready to become a nonconsumer society?
We do not fly. We do not take extravagant travel vacations. We do not need the latest and greatest stuff. We are not treehuggers, just living a practical life.
My opinion, the people that scream the loudest are the worst offenders. ie Hollywood and politicians.....

 

[FWT]

"With the expectation that due to man made climate change these previously unheard of events will continue has it changed your thinking about boating?"

Not even a little bit.

 

[MYTraveler]

There have been 4 tropical storms to hit California in the last 100 years, the most severe in 1939.

The last tornado to touch down in Rhode Island was 2019. The most severe were in 1986 when 3 touched down in a 24 hour period.

Massachusetts has had 152 tornadoes since 1950.

You should probably sell your boat while you still can.

Ted

I haven't seen any credible evidence that the storm winds actually measured in California actually hit the 34 knot threshold necessary to tropical storm classification. If they did, it was very brief and very isolated, and probably very near Yuma AZ.

I am now researching which insurance carrier stocks to purchase as there seems to be some price gouging going on.

 

[Hippocampus]

Hard to believe some people still don’t accept the overwhelming evidence of MMCC. But even the flatearthers and creationists are faced with its influence on their day to day as boaters. The decrease in the number of companies offering insurance and its rising expense. Every time a marina is wiped out it either reopens as condos, store fronts, restaurants or other but not as a marina or at higher prices to absorb the rebuild or is assumed by a chain. I kept a winter slip at Skull Creek HH last year. After it was wiped out the travel lift wasn’t replaced and no in house service techs were employed. Went from a working yard to wet storage with fuel dock and pump out. Our new to us boat needed some work. It was a pain to arrange and execute elsewhere . Believe that evolution is being repeated in other locales. .

Have known multiple yard owners as friends. Due to weather insurance costs have risen dramatically. Also due to the potential impact of weather on infrastructure and stored toxins cost of construction or improvements has risen as codes are progressively more demanding. Those costs are passed to us.

Find in my circle people have gotten less likely to wander. More likely to use their boats seasonally. More likely to stay in their regional waters. As said multiple times on this site is isn’t fuel costs given they are becoming a decreasing fraction of cost of ownership. But rather the increasing hassles, risks and costs of cruising. My horizons shrunk going from international to coastal. I’m continuing to resist the further down spiral successfully for now. Putting up with booking several long term berths a year in advance. So I can snowbird but leave the boat for other activities . Getting tired of putting up with insurance dictating my behavior. Putting up with the rising costs. Continue to have a YOLO attitude. But I like to buddy boat. One of my BFF decided he’s had enough. His boat is being sold. He will keep a small boat near his house and charter. He left for Croatian charter this morning and we spoke a few days ago. He has the resources to continue but apparently came to his decision given he thinks the cruising life has changed.
I started this thread and rant wanting to see if others are noticing how MMCC is changing boating and whether it’s impacting on their decisions.

 

[guy with a boat]

Find in my circle people have gotten less likely to wander. More likely to use their boats seasonally. More likely to stay in their regional waters. As said multiple times on this site is isn’t fuel costs given they are becoming a decreasing fraction of cost of ownership. But rather the increasing hassles, risks and costs of cruising. My horizons shrunk going from international to coastal. I’m continuing to resist the further down spiral successfully for now. Putting up with booking several long term berths a year in advance. So I can snowbird but leave the boat for other activities . Getting tired of putting up with insurance dictating my behavior. Putting up with the rising costs. Continue to have a YOLO attitude. But I like to buddy boat. One of my BFF decided he’s had enough. His boat is being sold. He will keep a small boat near his house and charter. He left for Croatian charter this morning and we spoke a few days ago. He has the resources to continue but apparently came to his decision given he thinks the cruising life has changed.
I started this thread and rant wanting to see if others are noticing how MMCC is changing boating and whether it’s impacting on their decisions.

Most of what you describe in this paragraph is part of the evolution of activities for most of us as we age. As you (and me) and your friends get older, you are less likely to do ambitious, long distance passages. We learn what we like and do more things that are in our comfort zone because we can.

When we are young and determined to accomplish grand adventures, things like increased costs and insurance limitations are minor challenges to be overcome. At some point, the payoff for certain activities is no longer enough to merit overcoming the challenges, and we move on to something else.

These things are true regardless of climate change. We do what we can and enjoy the ride.

 

[DBG8492]

The climate on Earth is a series of nested complex systems always searching for equilibrium. Therefore, it is always changing. It's never been static and never will be. I have no idea if anything we are doing has the capacity to alter enough of any one or multiple systems that make up the climate to have any real effect, but I lean towards "not a chance." It would take a significant disruption to cause a massive enough shift in the systems to have any real effect - especially long-term.

The volcano in Tonga in January of 2022 pushed more water vapor into the upper atmosphere than anyone has ever seen. Not to mention the chemicals mixed into that vapor from the volcano itself. Probably decades worth of equivalent man-made hydrocarbons and CO2 were released in less than 24 hours - all on a direct pipeline into the upper atmosphere. And it definitely affected the weather and some of those effects are still being felt. But within a few years at most, things will strive back towards equilibrium.

As far as the insurance companies - using them as a guide for just about anything is no longer an effective means of gauging whatever it is you're looking at.

The entire industry is fear-based gambling. As a result, many years ago, they realized that ramping up fear increases both prices and sales. In an open market, this problem would take care of itself as customers would have a choice whether or not to place a bet - and WHERE to place it. Those selling FUD at ridiculous prices would quickly find themselves losing customers to companies with a more realistic view reflected in their pricing.

Unfortunately, the companies also found that working hand-in-hand with the government - which also happens to have an interest in fear - works in their favor. This gave them their hammer - the mandate. With it, they can extract whatever price they want because everyone has to have it.

And in exchange, the government gets a new tool to use to make behaviors they don't like less likely to occur. Don't want people owning and living on boats? Make it impossible to do so by requiring coverage by law and then having your friends in the insurance industry drive up the costs or eliminate coverage entirely.

Everyone I know who lives on a boat has had their rates raised over double or been dropped by a major insurer in the past few years - without having made a claim. The excuse is always "Due to increasing risk..." A couple of them are now self-insured, one sold his boat, and the others found policies with companies outside the US. About half of them had been with the same company for more than 10 years without a single claim. And these aren't multi-million dollar yachts with full coverage, they're sub-$50K sailboats and trawlers with liability only.

In my opinion, the insurance companies have read the tea leaves on "climate change" and realized that it's in their best interest to go along with whatever the government wants. Not because they believe it's real, but because going along will likely shield them from having to make massive payouts in places where millions of people built houses - now worth millions each in this market - on land that's been a playground for hurricanes for nearly all of recorded history.

 

[O C Diver]

Hard to believe some people still don’t accept the overwhelming evidence of MMCC. But even the flatearthers and creationists are faced with its influence on their day to day as boaters.

Ok, so if you're so enlightened and such a believer in MMCC, answer me one question.

In another thead you indicated that you consume with your boat, about 1,800 gallons of diesel a year. As this consumption of fossil fuel dosen't benefit the planet in anyway, and only contributes to pollution and MMCC for your personal pleasure, what does that make you?

Ted

 

[Old Sea Dog]

So your friend flying over to a Croatian charter is contributing to your problem.

 

[Northern Spy]

Hard to believe some people still don’t accept the overwhelming evidence of MMCC. But even the flatearthers and creationists are faced with its influence on their day to day as boaters. The decrease in the number of companies offering insurance and its rising expense. Every time a marina is wiped out it either reopens as condos, store fronts, restaurants or other but not as a marina or at higher prices to absorb the rebuild or is assumed by a chain. I kept a winter slip at Skull Creek HH last year. After it was wiped out the travel lift wasn’t replaced and no in house service techs were employed. Went from a working yard to wet storage with fuel dock and pump out...

...Have known multiple yard owners as friends. Due to weather insurance costs have risen dramatically. Also due to the potential impact of weather on infrastructure and stored toxins cost of construction or improvements has risen as codes are progressively more demanding. Those costs are passed to us.

False equivalency to bunch flat earthers and creationist with MMCC.

A change in actuarial tables must be the least convincing argument for MMCC. Really?

I can only await how my tax dollars will save me and the rest of the world from the El Niño-Southern Oscillation.

 

[Hippocampus]

In another thead you indicated that you consume with your boat, about 1,800 gallons of diesel a year. As this consumption of fossil fuel dosen't benefit the planet in anyway, and only contributes to pollution and MMCC for your personal pleasure, what does that make you?

Ted[/QUOTE

Human.

Yes like most I’m inconsistent.
Have a zero footprint house (geo/solar)
Awaiting delivery of a Rivian R1T to replace a ecodiesel summit jeep hand Cherokee.
No center console rather fish off a Hobie 360 fisherman
Bought a used boat (no new petro chemicals to create new grp) after last was new construction.
When biodiesel becomes available will use that.
So like most humans I’m inconsistent. Boating is a major pleasure for me . When international sail was no longer feasible unless I wanted a new wife went coastal power. Totally selfish in terms of MMCC.
Humans are faulted. Decent folks do what they can to the limit they can put up with it. Yes I still have a big carbon footprint. Have the choice to have a bigger one but choose to avoid it.

To deny MMCC is ridiculous. Come to think deniers haven’t taken the effort to look at any of the source material. Haven’t even read any of the IPCC reports. Scientists and engineers accept something as the working truth if it’s unlikely to not be untrue with a high probability. That’s how it works for licensing a new antibiotic, whether a a bridge will stand, that general theory of physics is true, that plants and animals are the result of evolution. Anything you use or interact with is the result of that basic principle. Statistics has a mechanism to determine if something deviates from chance alone. Variants of measures of deviation from the mean or projected mean exist. You’re able to compare expected deviation from chance alone to observed deviation. At present and for some decades the difference between those two measures has been increasing . In simple terms 100 year events have increased in frequency so they are no longer 100 year events. MMCC models projected some areas would be drier, some wetter, some hotter and even some cooler. Over all they projected the earth would get hotter. Observations has been consistent with these projections. The purpose of science is to predict the future. If A happens then B will happen. I mix these two chemicals I get that chemical. I give this drug I will get this response. I collide these two particles I get these particles and these waves. MMCC has shown its predictive strength. Those not accepting this are living in a earth centric reality. That didn’t work out so well for the Catholic Church.

Yes I’m aging and some of this is do to that fact. Point accepted. Still I know and have known a fair number of cruisers decades older than me throughout my cruising life. I learned most of my sail trim while in my early thirties from lady retired librarian in her late seventies. At that time she was skipper and winning ocean races. Have buddy boated for decades with various couples in their 80s. In recent years the bitching seems to have changed. It’s not just I hurt o I ache or I can’t do the boat yoga anymore. Rather it seems a new favor has been added.

You’re right what started this thread was an impression. The couple I earlier mentioned are giving up their cruising boat to do more skiing, travel and chartering. The decision wasn’t based on physical nor economic factors. A Slovenian couple we’ve known for years are similar. They seem to have not aged out but rather after having plans changed much more frequently than in the past due to weather and the boat ownership hassles increase flipped the switch. Friend from Annapolis sold his boat and bought a cat for charter service in the BVIs. Figured the company would maintain it and he could still use it time to time. It was totaled while on the hard by a hurricane. I could go on. Yes these are individual events and could easily happen due to chance alone. Yes I don’t know that many cruisers so it a very limited sample not reaching statistical significance. Still the discussions have changed. It’s not just aging out or change in interest. Risk/benefit has been added as well as cost and hassle v. resultant pleasure.

 

[O C Diver]

To deny MMCC is ridiculous. Come to think deniers haven’t taken the effort to look at any of the source material. Haven’t even read any of the IPCC reports. Scientists and engineers accept something as the working truth if it’s unlikely to not be untrue with a high probability. That’s how it works for licensing a new antibiotic, whether a a bridge will stand, that general theory of physics is true, that plants and animals are the result of evolution. Anything you use or interact with is the result of that basic principle. Statistics has a mechanism to determine if something deviates from chance alone. Variants of measures of deviation from the mean or projected mean exist. You’re able to compare expected deviation from chance alone to observed deviation. At present and for some decades the difference between those two measures has been increasing . In simple terms 100 year events have increased in frequency so they are no longer 100 year events. MMCC models projected some areas would be drier, some wetter, some hotter and even some cooler. Over all they projected the earth would get hotter. Observations has been consistent with these projections. The purpose of science is to predict the future. If A happens then B will happen. I mix these two chemicals I get that chemical. I give this drug I will get this response. I collide these two particles I get these particles and these waves. MMCC has shown its predictive strength. Those not accepting this are living in a earth centric reality. That didn’t work out so well for the Catholic Church.

If this is how you see it, then science has failed you. MMCC isn't the problem, it's a symptom. World over population is the problem. In the last 100 years, the world population has gone from 2 billion to 8 billion.



What we do in the USA is relatively meaningless as far as MMCC. That will be decided in second and third world countries where the largest percentage of the population are, and the greatest pollutions now occur.

Until science analyzes MMCC and depletion of most resources on the planet as a function of over population of one species, it's not science, only politics.

Ted

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Thank you Ted.

 

[psneeld]

Zero footprint?

Meaning zero consumption from external sources that require energy to produce those consumption items from food to TV?

Lets not foget the footprint for the house and roads, upfront plus repairs.

My only point is most people ague MMCC with no clue. I agree it exists but I dread those that discuss it as if they realky knew how life goes.

For the oldtimers on TF, has someone finally taken the place on Marin?

 

[kthoennes]

Every time I hear the phrase "zero footprint" - try living a few miles away from a windmill blade production factory, or an ethanol plant in Chancellor. 35 million bushels of corn to produce 125 millon gallons - yeah, that leaves a footprint. Or a solar panel factory in China. Or a panel disposal facility. Nothing is zero footprint, that's delusional. A "zero footprint" house (or car, or...) just means the footprint is moved elsewhere.

 

[Hippocampus]

All salient points but at present the first world and China (and for years to come) remain the primary contributors. If your brakes fail you don’t step on the accelerator.

Birth rates decline as annual income increases. This occurs even in the absence of governmental interventions such as what occurred previously in China. Now their death rates exceed their birth rates and incentives are offered to marry and have offspring.

MMCC has decreased arable land and agricultural output in the tropics and sub tropics. This has resulted in mass migration from small farms to cities. This isn’t economically viable with resultant increase in criminality. Both have resulted in mass migration to more temperate climes such as North America and Europe. This will ultimately result in economic stressors in those economies and backlash into populism and decreases in internal security and quality of life. This is already occurring to some degree but one expects this to exponentially increase.

Someone comes under my care for an infectious encephalitis. I have no effective agent to totally kill the pathogen. I still provide what medicine I have available to decrease mortality and what supportive care I can to decrease morbidity. Any decrease anyone makes in their footprint may not be curative or even significant in the big picture. But every improvement is still helpful. Together we can stop hitting the accelerator. Agree only through societies changing their behavior and we put on the brakes.

In the past we went from RI to SC/GA. This year (and likely next) will go from VA to SC. Fuel use will decrease. Yes my trawler with its tier 3 engine still releases CO2. But as use pattern changes and mechanical engines age out of the fleet it’s an improvement. Don’t let the best prevent the good from occurring.

 

[KnotYet]

I think the argument that green technologies also pollute is mis-direction at best.
Every 'eco-positive' decision can be evaluated using facts and figures. Many if not
most can be demonstrated to reduce a 'footprint' in the long run. If not, show this.

The most basic are no-brainers, like improving R- value insulation in windows and
home construction. More cost up-front but less energy consumption down range.

Rather than knee-jerk criticism of the terminology (zero-footprint), why not base
the opinion on actual long term energy/pollution reduction (or increase) and back
that statement up with facts and figures supporting your claims? They exist.

 

[Northern Spy]

I should clarify that I do believe that anthropogenic forcing of global climate patterns is real.

I disagree with the politicization, polarizing, and capitalization of climate change which has created the mass public cynicism concerning it. I have no confidence that any of the western governments have any real capacity to deal with climate change effectively, as long as Asia, mainly China, still burn coal.

You want to get me on board? Lets stop beating each other up and start talking about scales of magnitude of CO2 generation and China's elaborate green washing pantomime.

Burning coal produces 1/3 of the world electricity and 1/5 of the worlds GHG. China has put another 50 GW (!) of coal burning plants on line this year alone. To put this in perspective, what they have put online just in coal this year is 2.5 times what BC generates by all means.

They have approved another 110GW of coal plants to be built this year. So in one year China has built or approved more coal capacity than all of Canada's current electrical capacity of 149GW (of which 60% is hydropower) China has tripled their GHG production in the last 15 years while North America's has decreased. They have burnt more coal in the last 10 years than during all of the freaking industrial revolution.

Canada's largest export annually to China is coal (and sometime canola). If Trudeau and our ex-Greenpeace activist Minister of Environment and Climate Change of Canada, Mr. Guilbeault, were sincere, this would cease immediately.

No amount of carbon tax, banning plastic straws, EV cars, or silver spoon socialism are going to prevent tornados in Massachusetts, forest fires in British Columbia, or Hurricanes in California until Asia (China) stops burning coal.

End of rant.

 

[PierreR]

Climate is classified by flora and fauna, not by temperature.

I don't think some people here actually look at the data.Hurricane ACE index and tornado counts and strengths have decreased since the 60's

Temperatures have been decreasing steadily with some ups and downs for the last 7,000 years since the Holocene Optimum.

There is as much evidence that CO2 can tip us into and ice age as there is evidence that CO2 causes extensive warming.

During the last Ice Age we got dangerously close (180ppm) to extinction level on CO2 (@150ppm)

Over millions of years the sea creatures are slowly converting all CO2 to limestone. My guess is maybe 2 million years left for life on land. CO2 is the gas of life and we are currently below optimum in the atmosphere.

I put more hours into studying climate than any other subject by far. Call me what you would like. My carbon footprint is probably lower than yours.

 

[KnotYet]

Climate is classified by flora and fauna, not by temperature.

I don't think some people here actually look at the data.Hurricane ACE index and tornado counts and strengths have decreased since the 60's

Temperatures have been decreasing steadily with some ups and downs for the last 7,000 years since the Holocene Optimum.

There is as much evidence that CO2 can tip us into and ice age as there is evidence that CO2 causes extensive warming.

During the last Ice Age we got dangerously close (180ppm) to extinction level on CO2 (@150ppm)

Over millions of years the sea creatures are slowly converting all CO2 to limestone. My guess is maybe 2 million years left for life on land. CO2 is the gas of life and we are currently below optimum in the atmosphere.

I put more hours into studying climate than any other subject by far. Call me what you would like. My carbon footprint is probably lower than yours.

Maybe continue your education? Current data do not support your statements.
What actually matters is mean annual temperatures not just the seasonal temps.
https://www.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/2021-01/HoloceneWarmingv7_final.jpg

 

[PierreR]

Maybe continue your education? Current data do not support your statements.
What actually matters is mean annual temperatures not just the seasonal temps.
https://www.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/2021-01/HoloceneWarmingv7_final.jpg

T
I consider it fraudulent to tack empirical data onto palentological studies and call it science. You can't do that. History did not begin in1979.

 

[psneeld]

Pretty hard to say what is really helping and hurting our planet till you study atom for atom....and how products/energy starts, till it goes back to nature for another million years or more