Tow Request - What would you do?

[Roger Long]

I would probably have made a call to the Coast Guard (snip)

I gave him our boat's name, told him we would anchor in sight, and to call if his situation changed. Also, who doesn't have a cell phone these days? We could see a tower. We would have relayed a radio call if he asked but why embarrass him further by making an unsolicited radio call? It also would have taken an hour of our time with the USCG, they would have wanted to know the length and color of our boat, are we wearing PFD's, what schools did I go to, what's my favorite ice cream...

 

[porman]

How many of us are sure that our cleats are strong enough to pull a grounded boat? I doubt if mine are. My friends' towboat has the tow bar fully integrated into the hull and deck and I'm sure it would handle the forces required.

 

[rslifkin]

How many of us are sure that our cleats are strong enough to pull a grounded boat? I doubt if mine are. My friends' towboat has the tow bar fully integrated into the hull and deck and I'm sure it would handle the forces required.

Within reason I consider mine strong enough. All of my cleats are mounted through glassed in backing plates to spread the load. I also have a reasonable guideline set in my head for how much engine power is reasonable to use for towing (a small fraction of the total power available), particularly for pulling a boat from a stop. I wouldn't want to push anything hard enough where I'd be concerned about damaging cleats, any of the driveline, etc. considering my boat isn't intended to be a tow boat.

If the grounded boat isn't moving within reasonable effort and dinghying over to assist with kedging isn't a viable option, then we've hit the point where I'd say I've done what I can and the job will require someone with more capability than I have.

As another guideline for keeping forces reasonable, if towing another boat beyond un-grounding, stay below the hull speed of the other boat (assuming it's smaller than the boat you're towing with).

Most of our boats are definitely not equipped for heavy duty towing and shouldn't be expected to do the work of a proper tow boat. But for an un-grounding that only requires a small tug or a tow in calm enough weather then a well installed set of cleats and a little bit of caution should be adequate to avoid damage.

 

[Osprey69]

How many of us are sure that our cleats are strong enough to pull a grounded boat? I doubt if mine are. My friends' towboat has the tow bar fully integrated into the hull and deck and I'm sure it would handle the forces required.

This (nothing like a metal cleat hurtling toward either party at great velocity) and I believe Roger's Gulfstar has a single screw. I would assume a bow in approach and back down to pull. But in doing so and the boat does not move off quickly and easily, I have seen pulling boats "walking" back and forth on the taut tow line. Between that and the potentially current pushing him into the shallows...IMHO too many variables and too much risk.

 

[psneeld]

How many of us are sure that our cleats are strong enough to pull a grounded boat? I doubt if mine are. My friends' towboat has the tow bar fully integrated into the hull and deck and I'm sure it would handle the forces required.

Good point.

I have snapped a few 7/8" and 1"towlines on the typical tow bitts installed on assistance tow vessels...I have even cracked the welds on 2" aluminum pipe bitts. Thats with a 350hp 454cid gasser engine in 26 foot Shamrock boats. So everyone has to guess what their rig can handle.

Sometimes they slide off easy and some not so easy.... you do get a feel for the ones you can just pull off and others you may have to dig out with your prop wash.

Bottom line is that towing is one thing, ungrounding another. Ungrounding is a least a 10X harder operation most of the time.

 

[SteveK]

We'd planned to anchor there anyway as not an immediate medical emergency (now doing PT). A big factor is not knowing the competence of the person on the other end of the tow line although I was getting some hints.

My crew is neither trained nor competent to handle the vessel if the anchor should drag and I would not get into a dinghy and leave her alone aboard at anchor while I did something difficult in a small dinghy and strong current (no functional outboard at the moment). If I did get a tow line to the tri and he wouldn't come off, I would have had current sweeping me towards the day mark, unable to maneuver fully, a crew unable to cast off from our end, and no assurance that the tri's end would be released. Even if he did, I would have had to leave the helm in strong current and tight quarters to take in the line. It wasn't a place where I would want to leave the helm for even a few moments. If the daymark hadn't been there, I might have done as you suggest.

Nope. Seeing him at anchor (where the photo was taken) the next morning confirmed that I made the right decision.


As I said in another reply, if the day mark hadn't been just down current, I might have anchored and tried to work something out just for the fun and satisfaction of it. But, he would have had to bring the line to me. I wouldn't have left my co-owner and love alone on the boat at anchor while I went out in a small oar powered dinghy in strong current to do things with ropes.

Roger under the conditions you have now given you made the right decision for you. The picture confused me, now I know it was not at the moment of him being stuck. Your plans to anchor makes sense too, before I thought you had your own emergency.

I can only speculate as I was not there. But from the information given, the post 1 chart of the location I would have dropped anchor a ways off letting out rode out while backing to his direction until depth became a concern with tide in mind. By now he would have met me with his line, tied to my stern. Either I tow him off or shut down and spend the night stern tied to his grounded boat. As the tide rose he or we could move to deeper water.

Know your limits.

 

[psneeld]

Roger, was that green marker part of the ICW? Do you mind mentioning about where that area was?

 

[ksanders]

How many of us are sure that our cleats are strong enough to pull a grounded boat? I doubt if mine are. My friends' towboat has the tow bar fully integrated into the hull and deck and I'm sure it would handle the forces required.

if I can't trust my cleats in a easy tow I surely cant trust them in a storm for my anchor bridle,

 

[Pascall]

Well acted or not, that is different for everyone depending on the situation and experience.
In the Netherlands you are legally liable if you cause damage while pulling a boat loose, in practice it is rare that someone will be held liable while providing assistance with any damage.
I have pulled a sailboat loose many times, in 80% of the cases I ask for the halyard to be removed from the mast, extend it and tow it on, at idle speed you then drag the boat loose.
It is also the strongest point on a sailing ship.
On a catamaran or yacht with bilge keels, this trick does not work from the bollard.

Mvg,

Pascal.

 

[porman]

towing

if I can't trust my cleats in a easy tow I surely cant trust them in a storm for my anchor bridle,

I trust my cleats for an easy tow, but not for pulling on a grounded boat.

 

[psneeld]

I trust my cleats for an easy tow, but not for pulling on a grounded boat.

There's the easy tow, like a dinghy on a nice day....

There's a tow through a breaking inlet where the tow veers wildly.....

Then there's the barely grounded vessel that is gently rocking still....

And the ones that are hard aground with parts firmly buried in the sticky mud or hard sand.

Oh...and all the ones in between these....

For seemingly easy ungrounding of boats off sandbars, I have needed to use a bunch of that 350hp and yank them from side to side to wallow them out.

Sure.... one can always hookup and see if the pull is easy...but then there's the problem of maneuvering in a cross current, daymarks in the way, doing multi pulls because the length of towline needed is longer than the navigational depth cross channel, and plenty more challenges....all requiring quick helm and deck actions.

The real trick is to have enough experience to plan it all in your mind up front to minimize most challenges and not endanger your vessel, crew, or the other vessel. Even better is to see you don't have the right vessel, crew and cooperation from the other boat and avoid the mess right up front...especially if it is in no danger, will most likely float off during the next tide or a professional salvage vessel can help.

Not saying this is rocket science or should never be done by the average boater... just that some ungroundings can not be so simple. I have seen plenty of other assistance tow captains make plenty of mistakes including me as I went through my initial learning curve of hundreds of ungroundings. Fortunately the boat and tow equipment wasn't the weak link.

 

[Roger Long]

Roger, was that green marker part of the ICW? Do you mind mentioning about where that area was?

Pine Island just north of Saint Augustine. The tri was grounded at "A", we anchored at "B", and he was anchored the next morning at "C" where the picture was taken.

The northen channel is shoaled for our draft. I think he probably grounded sailing into the wrong channel.


We couldn't have done much in that strong cross current and slack would have been after dark further complicating any assistance. He was off under his own power an hour or so later anyway.

 

[mvweebles]

.....He was off under his own power an hour or so later anyway.

I think the OP stated the tide was falling. Surprised he was able to wiggle off.

I'm with KSanders on this one - help a fellow boater where it's practical and does not expose you to undue danger. It's been a mariners code for thousands of years. My dearly departed father used to say "there are a thousand ways to say 'no,' but only one way to say 'yes.'" I understand the sentiments and concerns expressed in this thread, but still find the exaggeration of infinitesimal risk disappointing. On the plus side, it's not what I've observed in the real world of boating and cruising. I routinely see amazing expressions of helpfulness and generosity.

 

[Roger Long]

I think the OP stated the tide was falling. Surprised he was able to wiggle off.

I meant an hour or so after dark when slack water would have let us work that closely to the daymark. We encountered him just two hours before low tide that day and he was afloat and anchored peacefully on his own by normal bed time.


Do you really think I should have endangered both boats and myself to spare him sitting comfortably in his level boat for a few hours?


I've noticed how much more thought, analysis, and experience appears in the replies saying I did the right thing than in the "Everyone helps everyone, it's the law of the sea." platitudes.

 

[Bmarler]

I’ve both helped and been helped by other boaters at one time or another. It’s the right thing to do when circumstances permit.
But, I look at that situation as a whole. Shallow-ish water on falling tide, current, crew situation, type of vessel and type of grounding.
If I try to drag him off, scrape up his bottom on something, pop one of his cleats, bend his prop or shaft, etc. not worth it when he’s simply nestled into the bottom and will rise off with the incoming tide in a few hours.
If I would have been in his situation, there’s no way I’d have asked for help, I’d just be waiting for the tide.

 

[psneeld]

I’ve both helped and been helped by other boaters at one time or another. It’s the right thing to do when circumstances permit.
But, I look at that situation as a whole. Shallow-ish water on falling tide, current, crew situation, type of vessel and type of grounding.
If I try to drag him off, scrape up his bottom on something, pop one of his cleats, bend his prop or shaft, etc. not worth it when he’s simply nestled into the bottom and will rise off with the incoming tide in a few hours.
If I would have been in his situation, there’s no way I’d have asked for help, I’d just be waiting for the tide.

good risk management...

The OP I think did the right thing as the outcome was entirely predictable with zero risk to him and little to none for the trimaran.

If the OP (or I) had a small but powerful skiff/small boat, both of us may have at least tried to help. Completely different set of "risks" in risk management.

 

[rslifkin]

Sure.... one can always hookup and see if the pull is easy...but then there's the problem of maneuvering in a cross current, daymarks in the way, doing multi pulls because the length of towline needed is longer than the navigational depth cross channel, and plenty more challenges....all requiring quick helm and deck actions.

The real trick is to have enough experience to plan it all in your mind up front to minimize most challenges and not endanger your vessel, crew, or the other vessel. Even better is to see you don't have the right vessel, crew and cooperation from the other boat and avoid the mess right up front...especially if it is in no danger, will most likely float off during the next tide or a professional salvage vessel can help.

Not saying this is rocket science or should never be done by the average boater... just that some ungroundings can not be so simple. I have seen plenty of other assistance tow captains make plenty of mistakes including me as I went through my initial learning curve of hundreds of ungroundings. Fortunately the boat and tow equipment wasn't the weak link.

That's a big thing. Don't rush into it, take a few minutes to assess the situation (even if that means dropping the hook and dinghying around for a better assessment of the grounded boat). If there are too many complicating factors like limited maneuvering room, obstacles, strong currents, etc. then many of us non-professionals probably shouldn't try it. And if the boat is too firmly around then it's likely that we won't be able to reasonably help.

In my case, I have 2 of those same 454s you had in your tow boat, and probably with bigger props and deeper gears. But there's no way I could use my boat to un-ground some of the stuff you have, as using all of the installed power would be a great way to start breaking things.

If the boat aground is a sailboat there are a few extra options available, as they'll have at least a couple of winches on deck. So you gain the ability to help them kedge off if pulling them off isn't reasonable.

 

[psneeld]

That's a big thing. Don't rush into it, take a few minutes to assess the situation (even if that means dropping the hook and dinghying around for a better assessment of the grounded boat). If there are too many complicating factors like limited maneuvering room, obstacles, strong currents, etc. then many of us non-professionals probably shouldn't try it. And if the boat is too firmly around then it's likely that we won't be able to reasonably help.

In my case, I have 2 of those same 454s you had in your tow boat, and probably with bigger props and deeper gears. But there's no way I could use my boat to un-ground some of the stuff you have, as using all of the installed power would be a great way to start breaking things.

If the boat aground is a sailboat there are a few extra options available, as they'll have at least a couple of winches on deck. So you gain the ability to help them kedge off if pulling them off isn't reasonable.

Thanks...actually our boats were WAYYYYY over propped, swung a huge 4 bladed prop (pulling power over speed...think out boat top end dropped nearly 10 knots from factory props high 20's to 20 kts or so)..... and needed every ounce for some groundings.

The props were too close to the hull and tended to delaminate the glass just above...

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks...actually our boats were WAYYYYY over propped, swung a huge 4 bladed prop (pulling power over speed...think out boat top end dropped nearly 10 knots from factory props high 20's to 20 kts or so)..... and needed every ounce for some groundings.

I figured you would have been propped as big as possible for pulling power in those boats, but I wasn't sure how big a Shamrock 26 has clearance for. In my case, I've got 22" diameter props and 2.57:1 gears. It gives good low speed thrust, but for towing or any kind of significant pulling I'd be way over-pitched as the boat was expected to be doing 25+ kts at WOT, not pulling hard at low speeds.

 

[jleonard]

Even after reading all the replies and reasons to NOT assist, i still would have tried to help.
My cleats would have been plenty strong enough to make at least a gentle tug as long as i could stay in deep enough water. My trawler never had much power in reverse anyway.

 

[Roger Long]

Even after reading all the replies and reasons to NOT assist, i still would have tried to help.

I did help. I anchored in view. I gave him our vessel name and kept my radio on in case he needed a radio relay, had a medical issue, had a power failure after re-floating and was drifting down the waterway.


As for the rest, I take it you didn't look at the chart. Doing anything just yards upstream of a daymark in a knot and a half of current or in the dark essentially singlehanded...

 

[psneeld]

To me the tell tale of ungrounding ease when I arrived at a boat was....how close to deeper water, any shallow spots in direction of pull and whether the boat was still floating on it's line or nearly so.

Those would quickly tell me whether it was a 5 minute job less paperwork or have to be a little more aggressive.

In this case, even if the pull eas going to be easy, the rest of the difficulties for the boat, skipper and crew all became the bigger factors.

I agree no harm in trying if all those vessel/captain/crew limitations aren't issues (they were in this case), and especially not for a lot of vessels and crew.... but as others and I have pointed out...miss an important risk (the always unknown is how much help or detriment is the other boater) and hopefully you handle it fine.

I learned early after major damage was reported (can't be sue if it was before or during the ungrounding) that was on twin outdrive boats not pointed in the direction of ungrounding pull....I for the next 12 years or so refused to even attempt those situations.

They had a tendency to roll over on one side of the bottom and that outdrive usually even all the way trimmed up was still below the hull. Twisting the boat tends to snap the housing....an expensive repair and possible hull flooding is severe enough.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm in the "always help if you can" camp. But sometimes all you can do is stand by ready to assist. Apparently that was the situation here. And it ended well. Good call!

Where I get concerned is the "never help" attitude which seems to be creeping into these discussions more and more lately. That goes against everything I've learned about boating etiquette and human decency over my lifetime. Call me old-fashioned, but if someone asks for help, I feel an obligation to at least consider it.

My boat is rigged for towing, and I've done so many times, dating back to my early teens. I've also lent or given total strangers tools, parts, supplies and materials when needed. It's what we do for fellow boaters.

I wouldn't buy a boat without checking how sturdily the cleats are backed.

 

[psneeld]

I did help. I anchored in view. I gave him our vessel name and kept my radio on in case he needed a radio relay, had a medical issue, had a power failure after re-floating and was drifting down the waterway.


As for the rest, I take it you didn't look at the chart. Doing anything just yards upstream of a daymark in a knot and a half of current or in the dark essentially singlehanded...

Roger.... I personally think you got your answer. Help if you can safely (even then there are other strong arguments in some cases) and don't when you feel you can't.

Really surprised the "wasn't there so I can't nor should anyone else comment" choir hasn't started to sing.

Even if most disagreed with your decision, never feel bad about it if you have rethought your decision, based it on the facts as you know them, and did the best course of action you though to do at the time.

Operational decisions are usually the most second guessed, but they are usually made fast and with limited info. That's why generals are fired all the time and politicians almost never are.....

 

[mvweebles]

......
Do you really think I should have endangered both boats and myself to spare him sitting comfortably in his level boat for a few hours?.

Of course not. As I mentioned in my original response, I'd set a depth where I would not go further (10-ft? 6-feet? Something like that) and help to the extent possible within safe confined.

You asked what others would do - there was even a question mark in the subject header. Given the circumstances of current, ATON, and crew, I may have arrived at the same conclusion you did so I'm not second guessing, just responding to the question. That said, appears that anyone who disagrees is just spouting platitudes. Never mind that we just departed Cruise-In Week at Barra de Navidad where we, along with a couple dozen other cruisers, helped dozens of boats take hundreds of guests out for day trips to raise money for the local school system. No one got sued or hurt.

Peter

 

[High Wire]

I've pulled someone's anchor out with my dinghy to drop it in deep water so that the incoming tide can float them off and I've also called the tow service of their choice for them and stood by until they show up. My Monk and crew are not set up for towing.

 

[SteveK]

I trust my cleats for an easy tow, but not for pulling on a grounded boat.

Unless you speed up rapidly, jerk the line tight, to create a sudden stop, a boat does not have traction and worst case will spin the props at the end of a tight rope.

 

[Mac G]

The decision whether to assist or not is fact specific and dependent on your own boat handling confidence under the circumstances of the particular situation. The worst outcome is if well-intended assistance ends up going awry and then two boats (instead of one) are stuck someplace.

What I do, if I feel confident I can assist without screwing up, is to make it clear to the other party in front of witnesses on my own boat and on their boat that I will attempt to assist them at THEIR risk. So if something breaks I will not be responsible; and if I start to feel like I am losing control of my own vessel I will have to cut them loose. "Are you guys okay with that?"

Then I will take their line, not mine, so if I do have to cut them loose I can do so without losing my rigging. I know how to rig up a bridle to square my stern to the pull so am not lobsided yanking off only one quarter. And have learned to start very very s l o w l y to see what sort of resistance results.

If all goes well and I can get someone off then everyone is happy and I may have made a new friend. But if things start feeling sketchy I will cease and cut them loose per my original disclaimer. But will also offer to call it in for them in case their vhf or cell-phone battery is dead or whatever.

I believe it is our responsiblility as mariners to offer assistance when able to do so without jeadorizing our our safety. So is very fact specific obviously and if OP did not feel right at that time under those conditions then he made the right call.

 

[long-cours.62]

Until now , we always try our Best to tow someone.
The last one was à Rivière 17,50m but no problem it was at sea Nice weather and only 8nm.
Before it was à canal between 2 mud bank, one 14m motor sailor go on the wrong side, we going bow first send à Rome it work. But we hésitante because we had an appointements for the travellift.
The biggest we tow(with ojr LC62) was a Mochi 19/20...during 45 nm .
If tce tri was too far in mudy part , we have on board 2 set of ResQmax, it was one opportunité to try them

 

[jleonard]

I did help. I anchored in view. I gave him our vessel name and kept my radio on in case he needed a radio relay, had a medical issue, had a power failure after re-floating and was drifting down the waterway.


As for the rest, I take it you didn't look at the chart. Doing anything just yards upstream of a daymark in a knot and a half of current or in the dark essentially singlehanded...

FYI I did look at the chart.