Users' Opinions On Various Makes of Engines Needed

[twistedtree]

I'd suggest first looking for boats that meet you objectives, then once you have a candidate, get the EXACT model engine and go search for it on boatdiesel.com. You will pretty quickly get a picture of what to look out for with at particular engine. Most have a wart or two. Occasionally their will be dead silence or very few posts. That's usually a really good sign.

 

[BandB]

I've owned:

Gas
Yamaha outboard
Mercruiser I/O
Volvo I/O
Textron (formerly Weber) Inboard

Diesel
Lugger
Cummins
VW
Mercedes
MAN
MTU
Yanmar

HP-100 hp to 2,895

Never any significant problems with the engines or getting service.

Why?
All purchased new and all maintained only by good mechanics certified in the brand.

Common rail, turbocharged, electronic, none of those things have been negatives.

However, in purchasing used you don't know so two means of protection. One is reviewing the maintenance history. The other is the engine survey including fluid analysis. Brand name is not going to protect you against a poorly maintained engine or one serviced by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

Now, your planned use for the engine is important and your planned cruising area. The last boat we purchased, which we just sold, offered Volvo IPS Pods, MAN's or CAT. We chose the MAN because they're much quieter than the CAT's. We didn't choose the pods because we were going to be doing the loop and the likelihood of finding mechanics experienced and trained on pods was much less than those with experience on straight inboards in many areas we'd be traveling.

Recently there were discussions here on Hyundai Seasall. From everything I have heard a fine engine with some significant advantages of size and weight. My concern was service in many areas. Still some concern, but just in the months since the conversations, their service network has dramatically improved.

I've also seen some RIB's using the Subaru Boxer Diesel Engines which allow a diesel where none has gone before in a small rib with only 200 pounds more weight than a comparable gas engine. Traditionally in RIB's, the weight difference has been closer to 700 pounds. Interesting and could be tempting to some. Different, but nothing unusual about the engine or parts. However, for the average boatyard it would be a strange little beast.

Every manufacturer has also had some issues over their lifetime so whatever brand it is, talk to those knowledgeable about that brand to find out what they know about that model in that year. Here's where real fans of the brand are helpful, because they also know the issues experienced best. Also, it's important to check with someone knowledgeable of the brand to know about parts availability for the model and year in question. Parts will become more difficult to find at some point in the life of every engine. This is where the advantage often goes to the engines made in the greatest quantity.

Ultimately, you don't care brand, what you care about is the one or two specific engines in a specific boat. I'll use CAT's in SF's as an example. SF people will praise them as the greatest and how well they take the abuse given by many. However, the other side is that many of them have been abused.

 

[caltexflanc]

I agree about putting the collection of wive's tales, dockside legend, and generalizations in the opening post through a shredder and data wiping the memory of it.

If you can't afford to have a reserve account for an engine or transmission failure, or the equivalent, then save some more money until you do. The boat will find a way of asking for it sooner or later; unless of course you win the yachtsman's lottery as I am sure some will have claimed to on here at some point.

 

[AusCan]

If you can't afford to have a reserve account for an engine or transmission failure, or the equivalent, then save some more money until you do.

Good point. Especially if looking for a "bargain".
It was one of the reasons I bought a full displacement boat with a small, single engine. It can be re-powered without mortgaging the house.

 

[Gordon J]

I am in Vero Beach and sat next to a gentleman on the bus who told me about his 2000 American tug. He has a six cylinder Cummins, over 12,000 hours on the engine, and he has done nothing internal. That is a pretty impressive number.

 

[sunchaser]

Let me comment in bold below:

David, to add to your post #28 good summary:

Cat 3208s have not been made since the late 80s. The 3116 and 3126 replaced them and in turn were replaced by the C7

DD 6-71s were done by the early 90s, I had a chance to buy a refloated 48 Tolly, that during rebuild had installed the last two ever made - and had been crated up for a decade by DD.

The last year for the Lehmans was about 1988

Perkins has not made any engines with mani coolers since the early 90s. All made during the last two decades are termed Perkins Sabre.

 

[gaston]

I am in Vero Beach and sat next to a gentleman on the bus who told me about his 2000 American tug. He has a six cylinder Cummins, over 12,000 hours on the engine, and he has done nothing internal. That is a pretty impressive number.

That's only 3 years in a truck at much higher RPM

 

[Hamrow]

That's only 3 years in a truck at much higher RPM

? This truck comment has nothing to do with the thread. the guy was talking about a boat with a Cummins that has run so far almost 18 years with no internal work needed....

 

[gaston]

? This truck comment has nothing to do with the thread. the guy was talking about a boat with a Cummins that has run so far almost 18 years with no internal work needed....

Was just pointing out 12000 hours on internals is nothing to worry about sorry to upset you

 

[sunchaser]

Just traded in my 12 year old Suburban. It had about 1700 hours. I'm impressed with 12K hours on a boat with a Cummins. Much tougher operating parameters than a light duty truck with same engine.

But how do you put 12K in 17 years on a small boat unless commercial?

 

[Pack Mule]

Anybody have experience with a BMW D150 Marine Diesel ?

 

[smitty477]

I have owned boats with Cummins, Perkins , Lehmans,Yanmar, CATS, and Hinos. Diesel gensets in boats with Lister Petter, Westerbeke and Onan. Trucks with diesels 6.2 Suburban, 6.5 Hummer, 7.3 Ford, 6.6 Duramax and a 5.9 Cummins.
You will likely get a lot of feedback on the board about all the brands except maybe the Hino's. I ended up liking them a lot so I had 3 sets in 3 separate boats over maybe 25+ years so if you have questions about them please just ask.
- one pair of EH700 Na's (175 hp)
- one pair of EH700 TI's (220 hp)
- one pair of WO6 D TI II's (310 hp)

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marty,
Are you looking at a Lord Nelson?

 

[BandB]

Just traded in my 12 year old Suburban. It had about 1700 hours. I'm impressed with 12K hours on a boat with a Cummins. Much tougher operating parameters than a light duty truck with same engine.

But how do you put 12K in 17 years on a small boat unless commercial?

That's not hard. Only 700 hours a year.

 

[Delta Dog]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My "beauty" is a VT555 Cummins with almost 8K hrs on it. It purrs like a kitten and pushes my boat at 8.5 to 9 knts at 1900 RPM with a 4.3 gal per hr fuel burn. There are a lot of people who would tell you the "dreaded" tripple nickel is one of those engines to stay away from, however mine has been well maintained and not abused by it's PO's. I'm also lucky in that I have a mechanic that loves the beast too. As others have said, how the motor has been treated and maintained over it's life is far more important than the brand. Bottom line, my advise would be: Find a boat you love first, then find it with a well maintained engine, then buy it.

 

[Art]

For even more confusion - use the search feature of TF!

Your eyes will eventually glaze over....

 

[High Wire]

"All generalities are false." You can read all kinds of good or bad on any engine. Who's opinion matters more? Someone who works on all different engines or someone who has owned one or two? I would listen to the mechanic that fixes the brand. Ask said mechanics about parts availability.
FWIW, I have a friend with twin Cat 3116 engines. If you read the opinions online, those engines should have been trashed at around 500-1000 hours. They are now well over 2000+ hours and 20 years old, start immediately, NO smoke at all; and use about a quart of lube oil per season; very undiesel like. The only failure was one solenoid when the boat was new and a leaking Racor cap gasket.
I have another friend with a pair of 30 YO Volvo TAMD40's. 29 years of near perfect service, then one year of agony with one engine with performance problems. The mechanics were from a highly respected local small business. Bottom line: injectors were only "cleaned" instead of "rebuilt" and did not solve the initial problem so the problem must lie elsewhere. In the end, it WAS the injectors the whole time. Not the engines fault.
And another friend with a pair of Volvo TAMD40P's that for the last 10 years, one engine consistently overheats at cruise. Everything cooling related on that engine has been replaced with new at least once. He is so disgusted, the boat rarely leaves the slip now.
You pay your money and you roll the dice.
My boat? 33 YO Perkins 6.354 NA. 4800+ hours and doing just fine.
Curse the rules that make new engines like these no longer available.

 

[Pack Mule]

Marty,
Are you looking at a Lord Nelson?

Eric I'm always just looking. There are a few out there still running the BMW d150.

 

[Baker]

That's only 3 years in a truck at much higher RPM

Assuming 50mph average....that is 600,000 miles in 3 years. I am having a hard time believing that. And they are not at higher RPMs. A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly. A boat is under continuous load. I guess you are assuming that we are going displacement speeds and not running anywhere near the design load of the engine. And I am assuming 70% power. If you run a boat(engine) at 70% it is at 70% the entire time....not just until it gets up to speed and then "coasts".

 

[Baker]

And folks, the very vast majority of the Cat 3116/26 "soft blocks" have been replaced or thrown away. Caterpillar is a very good company and not only did they replace them under warranty, they keep very good records. A little due diligence and you can determine if an engine in question was a soft block.

 

[yarradeen]

Hino is subsidiary of Toyota. Basically toyota truck brand.

FYI

Toyota have a 5% owner ship of Isuzu

 

[Nomad Willy]

yarr,
Have you seen post #11?

High Wire,
You wrote;
“All generalities are false." You can read all kinds of good or bad on any engine. Who's opinion matters more? Someone who works on all different engines or someone who has owned one or two? I would listen to the mechanic that fixes the brand. Ask said mechanics about parts availability.”
OP not looking for true or false.
Read the thread title ...Opinions.

 

[Art]

Assuming 50mph average....that is 600,000 miles in 3 years. I am having a hard time believing that. And they are not at higher RPMs. A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly. A boat is under continuous load. I guess you are assuming that we are going displacement speeds and not running anywhere near the design load of the engine. And I am assuming 70% power. If you run a boat(engine) at 70% it is at 70% the entire time....not just until it gets up to speed and then "coasts".

Interesting premise there Baker; the way you stated it anyway. "A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly." By "load"... You do mean the load of hp. required for accelerating the inertia of a truck's dead weight... correct? Once up to speed the truck engine has to overcome other uniquely variable loads [such as tread designs, tire pressures, winds, bearing designs] than before due to natural airflow blockage or assistance and faster tire rotations and more bearing/grease rotations/frictions.

Therefore, although considerably different in many respects/aspects of friction and natural property blockage/assistance during acceleration and after attaining cruise speed, the overcoming inertia "load" during acceleration for a boat engine also decreases significantly once hitting cruising speed... correct? That is of course depending on speed reached, how quickly speed is reached and what design hull is riding in what manner either in or over the water.

Of course each "load" factor for land or water craft, of accelerating weight and then maintaining speed, has included in its formula just how fast to accelerate to reach and maintain a desired speed.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...ved=0ahUKEwiC0KWwpL7XAhUr6YMKHeNWBn0Q9QEIKjAA

 

[Recb]

Reliability and longevity of a given engine depends on its history: correct loading, operated according to its rating, maintained according to the manufacturers spec. Of course this is brand independent. Regarding choice of one brand over another, the most important factor will be those servicing your engines. Eg What brand has the best service for your area.

 

[smitty477]

Interesting premise there Baker; the way you stated it anyway. "A truck gets up to speed and then the load decreases significantly." By "load"... You do mean the load of hp. required for accelerating the inertia of a truck's dead weight... correct? Once up to speed the truck engine has to overcome other uniquely variable loads [such as tread designs, tire pressures, winds, bearing designs] than before due to natural airflow blockage or assistance and faster tire rotations and more bearing/grease rotations/frictions.

Therefore, although considerably different in many respects/aspects of friction and natural property blockage/assistance during acceleration and after attaining cruise speed, the overcoming inertia "load" during acceleration for a boat engine also decreases significantly once hitting cruising speed... correct? That is of course depending on speed reached, how quickly speed is reached and what design hull is riding in what manner either in or over the water.

Of course each "load" factor for land or water craft, of accelerating weight and then maintaining speed, has included in its formula just how fast to accelerate to reach and maintain a desired speed.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...ved=0ahUKEwiC0KWwpL7XAhUr6YMKHeNWBn0Q9QEIKjAA

I believe baker is alluding to the fact that marine engines operate under higher loads in most all cases and especially in the one cited in his post. Engine loads on diesels as measured by fuel use per unit of time are often 4-5X higher in marine use than with their counterparts in a "suburban".
I had a Suburban diesel and it was almost always consuming 20-25% of the fuel per hour that a comparative marine diesel would be consuming.
Exceptions would be if the marine engine was operated well below their rated rpm and outputs.

 

[Ski in NC]

The BMW and Hino and many uncommon marine engines almost always have good solid base engines, otherwise they would have never made it in the other applications (ag, industrial, road) that usually precede marine packaging.

The problem is in the marine specific parts. I know the Hino and BMW used a lot of aluminum parts in contact with coolant with the expected corrosion issues. Trying to find replacement parts is difficult and expensive. Many of these engines have been pulled running fine, but with corrosion issues, and new power installed.

So if looking at an engine that is no longer in production or supported, make sure you can get parts. Look up things like exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, etc.

If you can't find replacement parts, that does not mean that it is a bad engine. Many orphans are out there running fine. But owning one means a risk of a forced repower just due to parts. Any purchase price should be adjusted due to that very real liability.

Cats- generally can still get almost anything.
Cummins- can get most anything, but the old V-block 504, 555, 903, etc are a challenge.
Volvo- some older models now in orphan status, what you can get is $$$
Deere- Not much experience, but seems ok
Detroit- Long out of production, but still can get most anything
Yanmar- Seems like you can get anything, but $$$
Lehman- Can get most anything, but from limited vendors
Perkings- Can get most anything for the base engine, but some marine specific parts are NLA and hard to source.

 

[tiltrider1]

Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

 

[Art]

Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

Excuse me! Are you trying to say we are not already Nuts????

Show me one boat owner who is not at least 50% nuts and I'll prove that is actually a previous boat owner who eventually got their head on straight!

 

[sunchaser]

What brand has the best service for your area.

True for some, but others of us travel far away from our "area". Thus basic prime engine design, pre-trip maintenance, spare parts on board and a local airport or post office come in handy. Yes, I've had parts delivered both ways, not for the tough engines though, but for other essential stuff.

 

[sunchaser]

Just to drive some of you nuts. I just sold a 2001 Isuzu nqr with 30,000 hrs on the engine. At 28,000 hrs I had the head rebuilt to stop the smoking. That engine still has plenty of life left in it.

Genset, marine service or what application?