Wanting to buy for Great Loop

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Feb 18, 2022
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My wife and I are wanting to cruise the Great Loop in a trawler. We are not in a hurry and just started looking at boats that are for sale to get an idea of what we want. One such boat is an Ed Monk 42 with twin 3208 NA CATs. The engines have nearly 7500 hours each. I have done some research and I know nobody can tell me yes or no with these engines because we don't know their history and maintenance. But I have seen a top number of around 10,000 hours. Any wisdom on replacing before the trip? Estimated costs? 75K? We plan to resell whatever boat after our journey, so we would what it to not be a tripping point. Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Welcome aboard. If you are just going to do the loop and then sell I would not consider repowering a boat. You will not get anywhere near the money back. Just look for a boat in good condition and pay a bit more for it if necessary. It will be way cheaper in the long run. Good luck.
 
CAT will be the first to say it's gallons burned that make the difference. So NA's by default probably have a longer life expectancy all other things equal.
 
If you plan on selling after the journey, perhaps you should find a boat that someone is selling who just completed the trip. Let the refit costs be borne by someone else!

Jim
 
There are A LOT of boats out there with a lot less hours. 7,500 is A LOT of hours. I would keep looking. If you re-power you will never get your money back on that boat.
 
On the other hand, 7500 hours means they have been in use and not sitting around rotting. If you consider the loop is what, maybe 5250 miles long and you cruise at maybe 8 knots (9.2 MPH), we are talking adding a bit over 500 more hours to a pair of well proven engines.

And BTW, glad to have you aboard!
 
10k is not remotely the top end for a naturally aspirated 3208.

That said, if I were to plot a distribution of the number of pleasure boats with 3208 naturals, I would not be surprised to find that 7.5k hours were in the top decile. So what’s going on here?

Hours are simply not terribly causal to typical failure, people don’t really wear out a set of bearings or rings or even needing head rebuild due to wear. Nor will you see most boats ever get that high, failure or not. Yet you will see a lot of engine failures as the years climb at all kinds of different hours. Boats change hands before complete cooling system rebuilds and other expensive tasks and engines of all types do frequently suffer expensive bills.

Yet with 7,500 hours I’d guess a few things. I’d guess that boat is not running around with the original cast iron exhaust risers (which are now hard to get and expensive), and I’d even guess that the riser shower heads (the little holes that distribute the cooling water) are not clogged as most at half that number of hours will be. I’d guess that the heat exchanger has good serviceable end caps and that the cooling tubestack is not half clogged, again like many at half the age will be found. Simply put, an engine doesn’t go 7,500 hours without attending to some of the more advanced maintenance items that most ignore.

I wouldn’t be afraid of the hours, not one bit. I’d expect that a boat with half the hours would likely cost you $10-15k to get them into a condition where you have zero’d out the entire cooling system such that it could reliably do your trip. What you should evaluate is where this boat is at in that cycle. They may have done that last time 15 years ago and want to get out before the next investment, or it could have been last year.

The boat is likely fully depreciated, it’s not going to suffer in price just because of a negligible increase in hours and you will likely buy it at a bargain price. The question is if you buy a boat with lower hours at a premium, will that premium plus the amount of money you should spend to go through them be more money than any perceived depreciation upon selling. Surveys won’t disassemble the engine, so don’t expect a good survey on an engine with half the hours will mean you should not spend the money to zero everything. You more likely will need to do that. A set of risers all by themselves may set you back close to $5k.

So try to get to something more apples to apples in comparison. Hours alone will not tell the whole story. You will need a Lot more nuance than that.
 
I think you need to approach this with the thought, "what can I buy and get a large chunk of my money back when it comes times to re-sell'. As Shrew mentions, you will NEVER get you re-power money back in a year or two. If you buy the boat with 7500 hours and put another 1000 hours on the engine, I think it might be difficult to sell a boat with 8500 hours on the engines, when most other boat will have less than half those hours.


Jim
 
If you're worried about selling after looping, have the oil changed every 200 or so hours including oil analysis. Do your own oil sampling and send it off to Blackstone Labs. This might be 3 or 4 oil changes over the trip. Assuming the engines are healthy, this showes a perspective buyer an oil change history with a trend of good oil analysis. If you did the engines and generator 4 times each, you would have <$350 in analysis, a very strong sales tool.

Ted
 
It's not about the hours, but about how it's been used and maintained. It's about what shows up in maintenance records and in the sea trial and the survey and fluid analysis. 7500 hours tells you nothing about the condition of the engines and the condition of the engines is what you need to know.
 
My understanding is that CAT estimates the life of 3208’s as: 50,000 gals of fuel burned. So NA 3208’s in a displacement hull should be fine.
As others have correctly stated, maintenance is paramount. Do not repower unless keeping the boat long term. Regardless, unless unusual market forces post pandemic prevail, don’t expect to recoup your investment net of upgrades/repairs. Buying a boat is like adding a mistress? hard to resist the allure but not a winner financially.
 
Thanks to everyone

Thanks again to y'all for your advice. It is all very well received. I've contacted a broker and started looking at this boat plus others. It seems a good survey will be key and with wanting to resell, the hours on this boat may be a big sticking point when that time comes. I'll fill you in when we decide what to do.
 
I would also say that, let's assume the motors HAVE been very well maintained.....there's still the whole rest of the boat to consider. Have you picked the right style (trunk, euro, sundeck etc) for your needs? What's the condition of the other systems on the boat? It's a good harbinger that the motors have high hours and are functional (we think based on your description)....it makes one think the PO was an alert and conscious owner. Hopefully the Ed Monk legacy gives good long term service to other aspects of the vessel. My .02

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
When it comes to selling our boat, the buyer will get to review and inherit very detailed maintenance records on this boat's single engine (and all the other systems too!). I wish more boat owners did this. It is not difficult or expensive. Oil analysis is cheap! And it gives us as much information about our engine/tranny/genset as our physicians get from our blood test results! ... Especially over time.

7500 hours would not scare me away if this type of record keeping came with it!
 
If you are purchasing just to do the loop don't forget to add in your 10% sales commission that will be incurred when you are done and any purchase sales tax and purchase expenses into your budget. Depending on the value of the boat you purchase it may be a big portion of your trip cost. It's a great trip. Paul
 
I believe those engines are rated at 2800 RPM. If they don’t run up to spec I’d be very cautious.
 
My wife and I are wanting to cruise the Great Loop in a trawler. We are not in a hurry and just started looking at boats that are for sale to get an idea of what we want. One such boat is an Ed Monk 42 with twin 3208 NA CATs. The engines have nearly 7500 hours each. I have done some research and I know nobody can tell me yes or no with these engines because we don't know their history and maintenance. But I have seen a top number of around 10,000 hours. Any wisdom on replacing before the trip? Estimated costs? 75K? We plan to resell whatever boat after our journey, so we would what it to not be a tripping point. Thanks in advance for any advice.


NO! This design & these engines are way to old for reliable service, in this day & age... I have taken the long loop Twice & here are my recommendations...If there are only 2 of you, buy a great looper, the Mainship 390, single engine, no older than ,year 2000.
As the longest single segment of the trip, is between Bay of St. Louis, LA & Tarpon Springs , FL, there is no need for a 2nd engine, & its cost, space, spares, etc. Just shop for a boat, which has ben well maintained. ... Ken
 
Thank you everyone. We are continuing to look and educate ourselves. We are most likely not going to buy this boat with those hours. Feel free to keep giving us any advice.
 
Cat 3208 na

We have a single CAT 3208NA aboard our 34 year old Grand Banks with 7500 hours. Five years ago when we bought, we had similar concerns about the seemingly high number of engine hours. Before we made an offer I called Milton CAT in Maine and a renown CAT expert, John Pride, who also lives in Maine. When I described the engine and hours, both gentlemen, immediately said "buy it!"
Our engine purrs, will start just by breathing on the starter button, doesn't smoke and is economical (2/gph). Because engines are high ticket items, John Pride takes care of the maintenance and oversight of this engine. In his annual maintenance, he has noticed things that need future attention of should be taken care of at certain intervals. It is a bit pricey, but I feel good insurance. John also told me pretty much what ghost wrote....the 3208NA doesn't get internals looked at until 30k-50k gallons of fuel has been used, therefor, my engine and the engines you are looking at are not even half way there.....from what I have seen and heard....you can't go wrong with CAT 3208NA.
Good luck!
Best regards,
Mike Dana
Third Reef
36'Grand Banks Classic
Potts Harbor Maine
 
Thanks, good information. Any thoughts on the Grand Banks 42 bs 46? The 42 is missing a couple of amenities that we would like.
 
Grand Banks Classic 46'

The Grand Banks Classic 36' 42' and 46' are all nearly the same hull form, albeit under my larger. They are all very classic, bulletproof and GB quality. 42 and 36 are nearly the same lay out with a few more amenities on the larger. The 46' generally has way more room, a galley down a bit different aft cabin layout and I believe 3 sleeping areas.

All 3 models, if taken care of, are timeless and turn heads wherever they go. If overall space is what you are looking for, along with twin engines...the 46' is the way to go.

In my biased opinion, you can't beat a Grand Banks. There are hundreds out there that have stood the test of time. You cannot go wrong.

Best of luck.
Mike Dana
Third Reef
36'Grand Banks Classic
Potts Harbor Maine
 
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