Water in the Bilge twice

[ronobrien]

Here is a link that explains a bit about PEX options and warnings. https://pexhouse.com/what-are-the-types-of-pex-fittings/

 

[JESSEDIVER49]

Leaky Water tanks

Pumped out a couple hundred gallons last week and pumped out about 50 more today. Yes, I'm fixing the bilge pumps first as neither of them (2, fore and aft) work on automatic like they should.

So, apply the band aid first and then the cure.

The water in the bilge is crystal clear. Unlike the delta water under the boat. The bilge does not stink either which leads me to think that I've got a leaky tank or a split hose. Now leaning towards the split hose as I have 5 water tanks and none is over 200 gallons.

Damn. Got me a lotta work to do.

Thinking pex of course and will examine as much as I can next trip to the boat. Five water tanks and I only know where 4 of them are. More fun.

Post any insights you may have to assist my path por favor -

Path forward depends upon the valving you have on the supply side of your water system. I assume your water leak is not on the pressure side otherwise your supply pump would be running all the time. If you are positive the leak is on the low pressure supply side, you need to see how much of the supply side you can isolate with valving and then isolate each tank one by one if possible, to see which part of the supply system is leaking, and then further trace to see whether it's tubing, pipe or tank.

 

[CaptTom]

With PEX it's not a bad idea to use SharkBite (or similar) push-on fittings in spots where you're likely to ever need to disconnect them. Otherwise you cut and replace the old pipe.

 

[MVDarlin]

Boat wont sink from leaky tank. Weight is already on board. Water pump would run constant uf leak was past the pump. So look st feed system and tanks.

 

[ORIF]

Can’t disagree with fixing the pumps… but I sure wouldn’t be tasting my bilge water anytime soon! ?

Taste test save a lot of time and gives a fast answer to narrow things down. Doesn't have to be a full out wine tasting. Just a wetted finger to the tongue and then optional spit.
The only one I’d be worried about I think my nose would alert me of 1st.
Battery acid test result comes in the quickest.

 

[STB]

Taste test save a lot of time and gives a fast answer to narrow things down. Doesn't have to be a full out wine tasting. Just a wetted finger to the tongue and then optional spit.
The only one I’d be worried about I think my nose would alert me of 1st.
Battery acid test result comes in the quickest.

So does using a $20 refractometer from Amazon, except it is more accurate, more precise, more sensitive, more specific, and more sanitary

I still say that if the water in the tanks had been dyed...this problem would already be solved.

Bilges naturally have some moisture and water. Small leaks/drips/flows can look like big ones and vice versa. What looks like barely any flow can be a faster flow. There is so much that I aboard to see and won't be looked at, except for good cause.

It is just so hard to find these things without seeing it. Dye lets you see it.

 

[crashley]

Water leak

Either inspect and find the leak or empty all the tanks and confirm no water is coming in
It maybe a warning that your boat is about to sink

 

[Art]

No, dock water not connected to boat. Have inlet and valve, but mechanic advised "great way to sink your boat", so not used and never will be.

Good advice! I plug mine off off... each and every boat I've owned.

Know of two boats - over my seven decades of being on and around boating/marine-doings - sunk by unexpected leak inside with shore pressure remaining installed and no check-up on boat for some time. For that to happen and create even one fourth [1/4th] of a water fill-up in a boat before shutting down the pressure water - - - is way too much to give opportunity to occur!

 

[Art]

Can’t disagree with fixing the pumps… but I sure wouldn’t be tasting my bilge water anytime soon! ?

Interesting little anecdote... about taste testing.

Late 50's early 60's [grade school days] I became quite interested in mechanical items on boat and car engines. Dad was a profoundly successful engineer at Westinghouse, Grumman and American Bosch... who liked to get his hands dirty screwing around with engines... I fell right in love with being included with that fun stuff!

Well, being a youngen, often finger-taste testing food in kitchen, I felt taste tests were good for all sorts of things. Soooo - At about the 3rd grade time of my life I decided to taste test small amount of yellow/orange coolant water from radiator leak on our 1953 Ford Sunliner Convertible [we lived in NY so plenty anti freeze added]. Anyway... at about the beginning of my third finger tip test [the fluid was sweet tasting] dad lurched at me to grab my hand away from my lips. I received some stern instructions to NEVER again taste test things other than kitchen foods... and be careful doing that too.

Anyway... From that time on, each time any type of taste test circumstance comes up - kitchen or otherwise - I vividly recall that moment when dad grabbed my hand and took time to then sternly provide a life lesson as to why NOT to taste test fluids from mechanical items.

 

[ronobrien]

Taste test save a lot of time and gives a fast answer to narrow things down. Doesn't have to be a full out wine tasting. Just a wetted finger to the tongue and then optional spit.
The only one I’d be worried about I think my nose would alert me of 1st.
Battery acid test result comes in the quickest.

I never did like the bouquet of bilge water but it has a excellent body.

 

[SteveK]

Art. You did not say whether dad was tasting. Usually we learn from parents, but then at that age a parent would stop you as you did not know to stop with one taste and probably swallowed without spitting.

 

[kthoennes]

I had a leak problem last summer, probably 10 gallons in a 24 hour period. Water was also crystal clear (in an otherwise cloudy Missouri River). Water was running aft to bow, through the limber holes down to the lowest point of the hull before it would trigger the bilge pump. I thought it had to be a leak in the big water tank under the aft berth. Had to be something difficult and expensive and inaccessible. Nope. Turns out my stuffing boxes had loosened up and were both dribbling. The packing was apparently enough to filter the leaking water to crystal clear. I tightened the bolts on each side (for now, until I repack properly in the spring) and the leakage stopped. I was surprised how much water accumulated from dribbling stuffing boxes.

 

[koliver]

Can’t disagree with fixing the pumps… but I sure wouldn’t be tasting my bilge water anytime soon! ?

Taste is one of the surest ways to know if where water is from. If you are fearful of the source, do other things first to check things like head connections, and after those fears are alleviated, stick a clean finger in the water, smell it first, then if there is no identifying odor, taste it. Be brave, it doesn't take long and if the taste is indeed unpleasant, you have earned where the water originates without anything more than a wet tip of your tongue.

 

[SteveK]

Taste is one of the surest ways to know if where water is from. If you are fearful of the source, do other things first to check things like head connections, and after those fears are alleviated, stick a clean finger in the water, smell it first, then if there is no identifying odor, taste it. Be brave, it doesn't take long and if the taste is indeed unpleasant, you have earned where the water originates without anything more than a wet tip of your tongue.

Follow up with a rinse & swallow of scotch.

 

[ronobrien]

Follow up with a rinse & swallow of scotch.

It's purely medicinal. It's called in internal alcohol rub.

 

[kthoennes]

When I was a kid we had a stream and waterfall running through our yard. My mother the nurse and my father who worked in a medical lab at the time, had the water tested. High levels of e. coli. My mother freaked out and acted like that stream was radioactive, so we just had to sneak around and my brother and I had to deny we ever touched the water. In retrospect it was probably runoff from neighborhood pet waste and random septic tanks, prior to city sewers. We survived somehow. But then ironically my father taught us to siphon all manner of liquid fuels by mouth, and then spit. Or if I need to check whether the fuel filter is clogged on my outboard, you just pucker up and blow through it. Yum, ethanol-free premium...

 

[Delta Riverat]

Finished the second auto switch install today. I used a Jabsco Hydro Air this time, tested before install. Also bypassed with a manual toggle just in case.

I think I found the leak. Went down to the engine room and saw 1-2 drops per second coming from the starboard shaft packing nut. Not quite as fast from the port. Is due for bottom service and painting. But that would account for 100-200 gallons in the bilge over a month.

What a relief! Now just need to get that nut spanner on board as well as schedule the haul out.

 

[rslifkin]

Shaft packing isn't that bad to do in the water if needed. You'll make a bit of a watery mess, but the amount of water isn't at much as you might think.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, shouldn't be too bad. Especially since I know I have 3500 gallons per hour pump out capacity.

I just let it go too long before checking. But I also had zero functioning auto pumps on line and only 1 manual. Seeing water under the deck plates was a shocker. The engine room bilge is "damp", there is water but no puddle. Obviously the water is following the hull and the forward part is the deepest.

But of all the possables; water tanks leaking, through hulls, hull breach, shaft packing is the best -

 

[BruceK]

But of all the possibles; water tanks leaking, through hulls, hull breach, shaft packing is the best -

Well yes but, you may need 2 spanners, if there are 2 nuts IG style. Or a trained octopus. Access can be interesting, hope it`s better than my 36, one under the batts, the other under the water heater.
There is a "spanner" which uses motor cycle chain between the 2 legs of the spanner, it gets a better grip.
Something to be said for the "taste test", salt or fresh? Periodically, check bilge pump operation by lifting the flipper if that`s the switch type fitted. Though there are better switches with no external moving parts to gum up.

 

[STB]

I'm not sure how accurate the 100-200 gallon/month number is, or how accurate the 1-2 drops/sec is, but a leak at that will probably only get you ~40% the way there.


1 drop per second is ~35 gallons per month.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I've got 2 shafts and I could see a water mark under the other one also. So at 5 drops per second, not that much of a stretch. I can see both packing glands, they are the double nut style about 3 inches, yeah I'll need 2 big spanners.

The mechanic adjusted them back in April and it looks like now it's my turn.

 

[STB]

Yeah if it is both shafts that ~40% is ~80% and more like it.

 

[SteveK]

I'm not sure how accurate the 100-200 gallon/month number is, or how accurate the 1-2 drops/sec is, but a leak at that will probably only get you ~40% the way there.


1 drop per second is ~35 gallons per month.

100-200 gal or 20-40 5 gallon jerry cans. Or 1000-2000 pounds extra in the boat from outside source should show on the waterline?

 

[STB]

100-200 gal or 20-40 5 gallon jerry cans. Or 1000-2000 pounds extra in the boat from outside source should show on the waterline?

Personally, I'm still interested to know if the water in the bilge was confirmed to be freshwater, saltwater, or a mix and, if a mix, what %.

I know other folks suggested a taste test (ewww) but can provide information.

I suggested a ~$20 refractometer from Amazon or elsewhere which would show the salinity of the bilge water and the local water (which could be fresh, brackish, salt, or anywhere along the spectrum). And, knowing those two numbers, could give a good hint as to what percentage might be potable water or rain and what percentage might be from below the waterline (obviously works better in brackish to salty water than fresh).

As for the waterline, that's about as much water as my boats have carried in their potable water tanks. You can see it at the waterline if you really look, but it doesn't just jump out. At list on 42' trawlers.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I'm sure it did, but I didn't see it. Boat weighed in at 42,000 pounds at survey before the mechanic filled all 5 water tanks. Me thinks the leak got bad after the last little cruise down the river as I've never seen water like that before. Was probably 8 inches deep before I fixed both pumps.

 

[Delta Riverat]

The boat is in the Delta close to Stockton which is a long way from the Pacific so don't expect much salt.

 

[STB]

The boat is in the Delta close to Stockton which is a long way from the Pacific so don't expect much salt.

Yeah. That'd be hard to tell by $20 refractometer.

 

[SteveK]

On my own boat I was changing out deck drains. In one area I noted bilge was wet and dry on the other side, not much but wet. On removal of the drain hose noticed a crack, but thought I did it during removal. However the now thru hull was open and I am there watching wave action throw in a cup each time. That cracked hose explains the wet bilge area.

 

[CaptTom]

So, if I'm following this correctly, one take-away is that even badly silted river water can appear as clear as potable water in the bilge. For one thing, once it stops moving the sediments settle out pretty quickly. There may be some filtration at the source of the leak, too.