water tanks Helmsman 38E. Cold weather storage preperation

[capran]

My boat has a hot water bypass installed by the manufacturer. It's really quite simple and worth doing as it will make every winter prep easier. Just a matter of a couple valves and hoses.

got any pictures? I am pretty concrete, which ain't so pretty. LOL

 

[backinblue]

Not handy but I can take some this weekend. It's similar to this. Apprently there are kits that may work for you depending on your particular setup.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/140345927208

 

[Bacchus]

got any pictures? I am pretty concrete, which ain't so pretty. LOL

Easiest way is to install a bypass kit. A pair of 3 way valves and a connecting hose similar to this
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessorie...oVeWBKXcIt-mbga5zoy_UQAeS431heswaAhLPEALw_wcB
They come with different length connecting hose for different water heaters. Fittings attach to heater and hose between. Existing plumbing ftgs usually attach right to the added valves but may require a nipple depending on male / female fittings. It's a little work the first time but time saver and less issues with leajy fittings from then on.
Same for adding a winterizing fitting / 3 way valve on FW pump inlet
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Fresh-Water/Camco/CAM36543.html

 

[Comodave]

On our water heater there was a bypass and a drain plug. I would put it in bypass, effectively shutting off water in or out of the heater. Then open the drain plug and leave it out for a couple of days to let it drain. Then I would put the plug back in so it didn’t get lost over the winter.

 

[Bacchus]

On our water heater there was a bypass and a drain plug. I would put it in bypass, effectively shutting off water in or out of the heater. Then open the drain plug and leave it out for a couple of days to let it drain. Then I would put the plug back in so it didn’t get lost over the winter.

With no air inlet it drains slow.
Another advantage of using the compressor...
I blew out H & C faucets / lines and then hook up a hose to the water heater drain. With comp air I empty to WH overboard outside of the ER so no water cleanup in bilge reqd and it takes all of 5-10 mins to empty while I'm getting AF ready to pump in.

 

[capran]

With no air inlet it drains slow.
Another advantage of using the compressor...
I blew out H & C faucets / lines and then hook up a hose to the water heater drain. With comp air I empty to WH overboard outside of the ER so no water cleanup in bilge reqd and it takes all of 5-10 mins to empty while I'm getting AF ready to pump in.

One last question. Getting ready to order the Craftsman 6 gallon compressor. https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-CM...f-8fe9-8a064c2894d0&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi&th=1 Is this what I need or is there any extra accessories. I am thinking I will, as per some recommendation, apply the compressor to the 1/2 inch hose that is after the water pump. (the access is very easy there, as there is a back flow preventer in the line that easily comes off.) I can't tell if this kit with the blow out fitting is what I need, or if it's something else. and still not sur about the plan for the hot water tank bypass, even if it's a temporary disconnect and plug for the first year. If I had confidence in my yards service, I'd probably let them do it, as there are so many things I am unsure of. (for example, I saw a video that talked about draining the muffler.???? and changing out the engine antifreeze, neither of which I ever did on the sailboat.) all help appreciated....

 

[Helmsman]

One last question. Getting ready to order the Craftsman 6 gallon compressor. https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-CM...f-8fe9-8a064c2894d0&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi&th=1 Is this what I need or is there any extra accessories. I am thinking I will, as per some recommendation, apply the compressor to the 1/2 inch hose that is after the water pump. (the access is very easy there, as there is a back flow preventer in the line that easily comes off.) I can't tell if this kit with the blow out fitting is what I need, or if it's something else. and still not sur about the plan for the hot water tank bypass, even if it's a temporary disconnect and plug for the first year. If I had confidence in my yards service, I'd probably let them do it, as there are so many things I am unsure of. (for example, I saw a video that talked about draining the muffler.???? and changing out the engine antifreeze, neither of which I ever did on the sailboat.) all help appreciated....

The only reason to change out the engine antifreeze is if the antifreeze is older than the recommended use period. That period is typically around five years. If you don’t know how long it has been then might be best to plan a change.

 

[Comodave]

There are 2 different antifreezes involved with the engine. One is the engine coolant like the antifreeze in your car engine. It may need changing in 4 or 5 years depending on the condition. The other antifreeze is what you run through the engine to get the water out so the block doesn’t crack due to the raw water left in the engine and raw water portion of the engine, muffler and various hoses. Which antifreeze are you referring to? Yes you may need to drain the muffler if it has a drain plug. If not then you will have to run more antifreeze into the raw water (strainer) to dilute the water sitting in the muffler. How much depends on your particular setup. I always used either -100 or -200 antifreeze to winterize the engine. Then while I ran it into the engine my wife would test the exhaust output with a refractometer to make sure it was down to -20 or so degrees. With the -60 degree antifreeze you can’t test it using a refractometer so you are guessing that it is protected.

 

[Bacchus]

If you disconnect and plug the cold water feed to the heater you won't be able to pump pink thru the hot water system piping. That's the reason for bypassing so you can use the FW pump to run pink through the hor & cold system piping to all faucets / outlets / shower etc.
To bypass the WH disconnect the C&H fittings closest to the heater and connect them together with a short hose and fittings to match the piping. Or take a little bit longer and install the bypass kit I linked to above.

 

[backinblue]

Regarding engine anti-freeze, Yanmar recommends changing every year even if it's long-life fluid (like 5 years). My marina recommend every other year. Is 1-2 years being overly conservative? (like flushing brake fluid in a new car after 2 years)?

 

[Comodave]

Bite the bullet now and install the water heater bypass. It will save you lots of time over the years and make the winterizing easier.

 

[Helmsman]

Regarding engine anti-freeze, Yanmar recommends changing every year even if it's long-life fluid (like 5 years). My marina recommend every other year. Is 1-2 years being overly conservative? (like flushing brake fluid in a new car after 2 years)?

I would go with the recommendation of the Yanmar people. However, I would call them and ask them why changing the antifreeze that frequently is necessary. Perhaps the recommendation is a few years old and has changed.

 

[Bacchus]

I havebto believe the 1 year replacement is VERY conservative and a CYA on Yanmars part. As a point of reference I changed my coolant in myn2008 MS 34HT w a single 6LYA with 750 hours and the coolant was very clean & clear and the distilled water flush came out clean & clear as well.
Is anyone V aware of any other diesel engine that recommends V annual AF replacement?
I guess I'm just a skeptic...

 

[capran]

There are 2 different antifreezes involved with the engine. One is the engine coolant like the antifreeze in your car engine. It may need changing in 4 or 5 years depending on the condition. The other antifreeze is what you run through the engine to get the water out so the block doesn’t crack due to the raw water left in the engine and raw water portion of the engine, muffler and various hoses. Which antifreeze are you referring to? Yes you may need to drain the muffler if it has a drain plug. If not then you will have to run more antifreeze into the raw water (strainer) to dilute the water sitting in the muffler. How much depends on your particular setup. I always used either -100 or -200 antifreeze to winterize the engine. Then while I ran it into the engine my wife would test the exhaust output with a refractometer to make sure it was down to -20 or so degrees. With the -60 degree antifreeze you can’t test it using a refractometer so you are guessing that it is protected.

looks like I need to hire a mechanic to run some of this through, as doing it wrong could have bad consequences. and looks like i need to order a refractometer.

 

[capran]

Bite the bullet now and install the water heater bypass. It will save you lots of time over the years and make the winterizing easier.

I wish I could figure it out, but I am very concrete (dumb on some things). In the 70's got a masters in counseling, but mechanical things are a huge stretch. I have a Seaward 20 gallon water heater, model HF-2000, but most of the fittings are of the blue/red hose variety. I think it's called apex or something like that, but I have never used that material or connections, and am clueless about how to rig it up and what I would need, even after reading and printing out this entire thread. In Anacortes Wa there's a small Ace and a Sebo hardware store and the nearest lowes or hd is a 40 minute drive, so have been trying to figure out everything I need here in Spokane before making the trip over. Overwhelmed is an under statement.

 

[Bacchus]

I wish I could figure it out, but I am very concrete (dumb on some things). In the 70's got a masters in counseling, but mechanical things are a huge stretch. I have a Seaward 20 gallon water heater, model HF-2000, but most of the fittings are of the blue/red hose variety. I think it's called apex or something like that, but I have never used that material or connections, and am clueless about how to rig it up and what I would need, even after reading and printing out this entire thread. In Anacortes Wa there's a small Ace and a Sebo hardware store and the nearest lowes or hd is a 40 minute drive, so have been trying to figure out everything I need here in Spokane before making the trip over. Overwhelmed is an under statement.

Regardless what tubing / hose is used and what connections for that hose / tube all water heaters (at least that I have seen) have pipe thread inlet & outlet fittings....musuallyb1/2" pipe thread. If they are male (external threads) the tube / hose fitting will be an adapter that goes from pipe thread to the hose / tube. The winterization bypass kits have 3 way valves that get installed directly to the water heater and the hose/tube fitting reinstalled onto the valve. The hose / bypass included get connected to the remaining fitting on the 3 way valve. A Walmart will Kiely have the kits in their RV section. If you havevan RV dealer / store near by they will join doubt have them in stock especially this time of year.
How are at Googling? Lots of how to Info available if you look...
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...gBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#

Sorry to say but if you are completely clueless it may be best to find a mechanic or yard that will do all winterizing. Ideally you could hire it done and request to be there to observe and decide if you are up to it in the future.

 

[Comodave]

looks like I need to hire a mechanic to run some of this through, as doing it wrong could have bad consequences. and looks like i need to order a refractometer.

Take lots of notes. I made a list of all the things that needed winterizing on our last boat. It was a long list and I didn’t want to forget anything.

 

[capran]

Regardless what tubing / hose is used and what connections for that hose / tube all water heaters (at least that I have seen) have pipe thread inlet & outlet fittings....musuallyb1/2" pipe thread. If they are male (external threads) the tube / hose fitting will be an adapter that goes from pipe thread to the hose / tube. The winterization bypass kits have 3 way valves that get installed directly to the water heater and the hose/tube fitting reinstalled onto the valve. The hose / bypass included get connected to the remaining fitting on the 3 way valve. A Walmart will Kiely have the kits in their RV section. If you have van RV dealer / store near by they will join doubt have them in stock especially this time of year.
Sorry to say but if you are completely clueless it may be best to find a mechanic or yard that will do all winterizing. Ideally you could hire it done and request to be there to observe and decide if you are up to it in the future.

I appreciate all your input. I'll make some calls tomorrow. I saw a sign that someone specializes in John Deer engines in Anacortes, (for this 85 hp lugger engine), so will see if I can hire him. I sure wish I'd have stuck with my simple sailboat. I winterized that boat and a prior boat for 25 years, but this is above my paygrade, for which I will pay dearly, I am sure.

 

[backinblue]

I appreciate all your input. I'll make some calls tomorrow. I saw a sign that someone specializes in John Deer engines in Anacortes, (for this 85 hp lugger engine), so will see if I can hire him. I sure wish I'd have stuck with my simple sailboat. I winterized that boat and a prior boat for 25 years, but this is above my paygrade, for which I will pay dearly, I am sure.

It's not that different, just more of the same mostly. I'll admit I pay to have mine winterized just out of convenience. The marina has carts set up with everything they need including big tanks of antifreeze and all the adapters and know-how, etc. Yes, I could save a few hundred and spend the time to do it myself, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't amount to more than a negligable amount of the yearly boating expense. I know that not everyone thinks the same way, but keep things in perspective.

 

[Comodave]

It's not that different, just more of the same mostly. I'll admit I pay to have mine winterized just out of convenience. The marina has carts set up with everything they need including big tanks of antifreeze and all the adapters and know-how, etc. Yes, I could save a few hundred and spend the time to do it myself, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't amount to more than a negligable amount of the yearly boating expense. I know that not everyone thinks the same way, but keep things in perspective.

I always did mine just to make sure it was done correctly. I didn’t want a cracked block and then have to battle with the yard and insurance company as to who pays for it and then loose a season waiting for it to get fixed.

 

[backinblue]

True Dave, although on the flip side, you do have some recourse if the work was not done properly. Last year they failed to winterize my icemaker and they paid to replace the water valve that broke. I now have a checklist that I intend to give them so they don't miss anything, however, I'm confident they know how to winterize an engine and are more expert at it than I am.

 

[capran]

It's not that different, just more of the same mostly. I'll admit I pay to have mine winterized just out of convenience. The marina has carts set up with everything they need including big tanks of antifreeze and all the adapters and know-how, etc. Yes, I could save a few hundred and spend the time to do it myself, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't amount to more than a negligable amount of the yearly boating expense. I know that not everyone thinks the same way, but keep things in perspective.

sounds like your yard is not just efficient, but inexpensive. I think our hourly rate is over 150, and the clock starts when they get the work order, and it takes nearly a half hour to gather their gear and travel 2 blocks to their storage yard. A few years ago I had a small task for them to do when I was not on the boat. When I showed up for spring launch there was a fair amount of water in the bilge (which has never happened in 19 years.) I asked if they forgot to close the strainer when running the motor and they said they would ask the kid that did the work to stop by. He insisted he wasn't responsible. That 5 minute question/answer cost me a half an hours labor charge.

 

[backinblue]

Yes I think I am lucky to have a very capable and reasonable yard. It's a family run business for as long as I can remember. It's kind of like anyone you hire or getting your car serviced. You don't mind paying a reasonable fee for a quality job. It's unfortunate that is not the norm.