Wooden Boats

[Marin]

Pirogue-- I can almost guarantee you that Chris Craft Constellation you posted photos of earlier is boathouse-kept. There are a lot of beautiful boats like that up here and they are all moored inside.

I don't know about your area but in our marina boathouses tend to cost thirty to eighty thousand dollars and you still have to pay the port a monthly moorage fee to keep them there.

Here is a small sampling of some of the Chris Crafts in this area. All of them kept indoors, most likely in fresh water although there could be exceptions.. I took these a few years ago at a Chris Craft rendezvous here in Puget Sound.

 

[Scary]

We all own boats for different reasons. Unless your earning a living with your boat none of them are investments. Beautiful wood boats are works of art. If you want to be a curator of wooden boat art be prepared to spend lots of time and money. If your boat hobby is using your boat in ANY OTHER WAY than a wood boat is not a good choice. Depending on your talent, time and or wallet wood boats quickly too big for one person to maintain. Wooden boats have fasteners, fasteners are not forever and have to be replaced. Shinny high gloss paint can and often hides dry rot. Some one mentions when was the last time you heard of a wooden boat sinking. Why just yesterday I looked at a 57' Shepard that sunk due to dry rot starting at the gunnel, two years ago I was aboard a 57' Chris Constellation, that sunk. Three years ago I just finished rebuilding another 57 chris that was on the verge of sinking. That rebuild was about 160k and a year of full time work for two good professionals. Wood boats are beautiful, have a feel that glass boats will never have, But are for the most part impractical. If a boat can be practical.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I suspect "cruising hard in open water" may even be better in a wood boat as they are stronger setting aside puncture resistance of course but not many rocks to hit in open water. Wood boats may have the ability to flex more and flex more gracefully depending on her fasteners. But IMO a well fastened wood boat w sound wood throughout should be at least as capable and safe as a FG boat.

Other than that Scott your open minded post above is good ... and quite objective too.

I think Bob "suicide" Brown said it best.
"The thought that wood boats are stronger than steel is Romance of the sea type stuff".
He was the owner of the Hannah Boden, Andria Gail (perfect storm) boats. He was also the father of the Offshore Lobster fishery in New England. He was the first to take a 40' Novi to Georges bank lobstering and blew the wheelhouse windows out of it.
His most famous claim to fame is the book "Fatal Forecast" about his 48' wood boat "Sea Fever". NOAA was sued for wx forecasting falsely because of disabled wx buoys. At least one death. Sea fever is alive and well in Rye, N.H and still fishes. Brown had her built by a sailboat builder in Marblehead.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sailor of Fortune I'm sure a good plywood boat is stronger than a production FG boat (perhaps considerably lb for lb) but all the rest vary a lot depending on their construction .. IMO.

And I wouldn't compare wood to steel.
Where's TAD? I'd like his input on this.

Also I like to hear Wood boats refered to as "wood boats" not "wooden boats". The expression "wooden" came from toy talk .. like "cheap wooden toy" .. as opposed to metal toys of the day. Now REALLY CHEAP toys are plastic. There's nothing cheaper looking than modern plastic toys.

I love the FB in the bottom pic of Marin's above.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Eric
I'm a big fan of plywood boats, having built 9 or ten since 1990. I am not under any illusion that my epoxy/ply boats are in any way comparable to steel hulls.
The one argument that I do have with epoxy/ply construction builders like my self is that where does the weight come from?
I am under no illusion that epoxy/ ply is totally water resistant.
If you build a skiff and it weighs X number of pounds on launch day, it should weigh the same three months later all things being equal(no more or less gear aboard). Builders of these boats deny the fact that extra weight IS water.
I like building skiffs and they can be customized as you see fit, easily repaired etc. I do know their limitations and strengths. Presently, I have 2 sitting in my yard, 1 completed and has never seen water (finished a year ago) and one 90% complete , thats about 4 years old.
A real, carvel planked wood hull would be way beyond my capabilities to construct but not maintain.
I'm of the motto now " Wood is good, Steel is real but wrap my ass in Fiberglass!" A lifetime of messing with boats both recreationally and professionally has exposed me to all of these.

 

[Tad Roberts]

Ha Eric, I was trying to stay out of this. OFB's post above is very good.

No material assures immunity from sinking. I've seen sunken boats of wood, steel, aluminum, cement, and even fiberglass! On Monday of this week I was going over a 78' steel boat that spent several months sunk in about 200' of salty water.

I've lived my life on wooden boats, I own two now, I can't really imagine owning a boat of any other material. It appeals to me, but I certainly understand it may not be right for others. To me any blanket statement that all boats of any particular material are bad, is silly.

I've run wooden boats onto rocks and ashore (idiot), I've seen them survive major collisions, I've hit huge logs at night in wooden boats. I've never had to swim for it, though come close a couple of times.

When a Maine lobster fisherman is really successful and has some money for a new boat, what does he do? He goes to Pete Kass Home Page When Washington, Oregon, or Alaskan fishermen are successful and making money they start looking for a better boat. Where do they come? To BC and buy our best 30-40 year old wooden boats. None of these guys buy these boats because they're easy to care for, they buy them for the pride of ownership, and that they make money.

 

[Portuguese]

Dear Sirs


...Flowing Tad's wise words. I have had my brand new wooden Rainha Jannota on saltwater for 7 months now and the best moments are when I open the door and feel that soft perfume of red cedar of which she's made of. I know I have been very careful with toilets and stuff, yet, to over shadow the wood smell any other smell will have to be very strong. Even the sound of the water splashing in my hull is different and absolutely calming.

Pardon my romanticism

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thank's TAD for not staying out.

And I really like your soft take on wood boats. You answered the question really well and it didn't require many hard or otherwise facts.

By the way are unlimited hydroplanes these days still made out of plywood

 

[Nomad Willy]

Portuguese,
Looks like Rainha Jannota is riding high. Have you got everything aboard yet? From that angle it looks like your stern is way up above the water.

 

[psneeld]

There is a huge difference in today's wooden boats, well cared for boats of yesteryear and wooden boats that are still hanging around with minimal care from the last days of the wood boat era.

There is also a huge difference in keeping a wooden boat afloat to liveaboard, to cruise the world and keep a show piece, and for local occasional around the bay use.....

There is not one answer...there is not even a hundred answers.....there are so many "possibilities" when discussing wooden boat ownership that the question as to practical ownership should be pretty obvious as I see a consensus in mags, forums and hanging the docks. Most people agree on all the major premises...it is just agreeing on particulars.

 

[Tidahapah]

Tad,
Love the way you put it.
Like you I could not imagine living on anything but a timber boat.
I am not a cold moulded fan but they make excellent hulls , a couple of my cat owning friends have them and they are light and strong but like all cats very weight sensitive.
I just love the weight and strength of my heavily planked spotted gum hull , in places the timber is 14" thick, planks, ribs and knees etc.
Like you I have run them aground on to rocks and mud but have not had to go for a swim. have put a lot of water on the inside once but saved the day to be back cruising in next to no time.
They are what they are and as I have said before you have just got to love them.

 

[Xsbank]

I like metal boats...

 

[Xsbank]

But seriously...

 

[Xsbank]

And this..

 

[willysross]

I started as a kid on slow wood boats, moved into fast fiberglass even drove Drag Boats for awhile. Steadily getting slower and larger but still in fiberglass. Now I am just starting the resurection of my latest project a wood boat. I hope I am not sorry later but I just can't stand watching these boats being forgotten and rotting away. They say life goes full circle. I was young and dumb when I wood boated, now I am old and senile. Either way I have an excuse!!

 

[Nomad Willy]

willysross I can relate.

Xsbank love that pic. Princess Louisa?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Ha Eric, I was trying to stay out of this. OFB's post above is very good.

No material assures immunity from sinking. I've seen sunken boats of wood, steel, aluminum, cement, and even fiberglass! On Monday of this week I was going over a 78' steel boat that spent several months sunk in about 200' of salty water.

I've lived my life on wooden boats, I own two now, I can't really imagine owning a boat of any other material. It appeals to me, but I certainly understand it may not be right for others. To me any blanket statement that all boats of any particular material are bad, is silly.

I've run wooden boats onto rocks and ashore (idiot), I've seen them survive major collisions, I've hit huge logs at night in wooden boats. I've never had to swim for it, though come close a couple of times.

When a Maine lobster fisherman is really successful and has some money for a new boat, what does he do? He goes to Pete Kass Home Page When Washington, Oregon, or Alaskan fishermen are successful and making money they start looking for a better boat. Where do they come? To BC and buy our best 30-40 year old wooden boats. None of these guys buy these boats because they're easy to care for, they buy them for the pride of ownership, and that they make money.

Tad, As you know, many of Peter Kass' clients buy his boats because of their knees. They can't take the ride of a fiberglass boat any longer. If I wanted a carvel planked boat, it would be "BENITO". And I agree, they are a breed apart.

 

[Pack Mule]

I like wood boats and I thought that I might want own one someday but this last teak rail and door project tested my wood working skills . I know my limitations and this is it . My hat is off to those fine wood boat builders . Wood boats warm my soul .

 

[QB]

I wish there were a way to encapsulate the darn wood hull securely and properly.

The traditional way of encapsulating a wood hull is with paint. Haul every year and have a look at what it needs. This is a simple system that works very well.

For fiberglass encapsulation... I wouldn't be interested in a wood boat that has had it done, but the Vaitses method has its adherents http://www.amazon.com/Covering-Wooden-Boats-With-Fiberglass/dp/0877421374.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Paint is great. Do it right, take care of it and it lasts for many years.

Fitting in w the word "emcapsulation" is CPES. It's always talked about in concert w varnish but should even be better w paint, polyurethane or whatever except oil. I should try some of that stuff. Don't recall seeing it in a store.

 

[Marin]

Fisheries Supply might stock it. We get ours direct from the local supplier, Rot Doctor. Wood preservation, rot repair, and restoration using epoxy resin on boats and homes.

 

[dhmeissner]

Here is one stout looking wooden boat:
Powerboats: 65' Romsdal North Sea Trawler - Listing #: 3818

5" hull thinness on 4x5" laminated oak timbers.

 

[Tad Roberts]

By the way are unlimited hydroplanes these days still made out of plywood

The wooden (plywood with mahogany stringers) ones mostly still exist, there's lots of restoration of older boats. The new boats are all composite and many use gas turbines instead of the old piston engines.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,
The "Rot Doctor" says their CPES is for other than varnish ... "Also used as a primer coating for paints, varnishes and polyurethanes".

TAD,
Thanks ... I've been wondering about that for years. Wood survived for a long time in that app probably mostly due to it's stiffness .. IMO.

 

[Marin]

Eric-- We started using CPES some 14 years ago or so after reading many discussions about it on the GB owners forum. We use it on all raw wood that's going to be given a coat of anything. So we use it under Bristol for brightwork and under the primer for Interlux Brightside, which is the paint we use on the exterior and interior of our boat. BTW, the CPES sold by Rot Doctor is the same as the original that Smiths makes. It's just repackaged for the Rot Doctor.

Obviously CPES accomplishes nothing if it's used over an existing finish. It's only value is as an epoxy wood sealer, soaking in and filling the upper layers of wood cells with epoxy.

A technique we learned from Bob Lowe, a founder of the GB forum, is to apply the first coat of finish, be it varnish, a polyurethane like Brightside, primer for paint, or paint itself if one is not using a primer, onto the last coat of CPES while the CPES is still tacky. We've found that doing this makes it much harder for moisture to get in under the finish and lift it, with the result that the integrity of the finish, be it a bright finish or paint, is maintained a lot longer. As in years.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hey Marin thanks very much.
I'll do that when we re-finish our salon door. It's got some oil on it but not anywhere as much as the fwd deck plate. The deck plate (a backing plate on top) is heavy w oil so I'll stick to McKloskie's Spar Varnish for that. The CPES must be a great help though so I'll start using it where I have uncontaminated wood. The Bob Lowe method sounds good .. like it would establish a better bond. Adhesion is always good.

 

[Marin]

Eric-- Make sure to find out if CPES can be used on wood that has finish oil in it. I don't think it can, but I may be wrong on that. Bristol cannot be used over even a trace of oil, so I may be confusing this with the rules for CPES. It should be easy enough to find out; I think the Rot Doctor website as the instructions for using CPES.

 

[bgillroy]

Eric, CPES indispensable to sealing & stabilizing dimensional and ply stock prior to coatings/ varnish. Would avoid use w/ oiled stain products generally incompatible. As I did call Smiths up share your plan snd get their buy in or not as case may be.

 

[Nomad Willy]

CPES indispensable?
I'm 76 and I haven't used it yet.
Wood is stabilized but drying under controlled conditions and protected w paint in various forms.
CPES may go a long way toward making wood more like plastic.
I've never used stain but quite a bit of oil and it does make a good pre-coating for oil based varnishes.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Nomad Willy, the CPS statement is funny.


I am going to bring back up an older thread. Its really good reading. But it does take a certain mindset to own a wooden boat, old or new, not withstanding the knowledge of how to take care of one. This includes knowing what you are looking at in any restored one as it ages.

But in the modern age and the new construction methods, you can actually have a new wooden cored boat that's just as easy to take care of as any fiberglass hull of the same size. This comes after years of dealing with both types. Building a new wooden cored boat these days and done correctly, you can save tons of weight, which transfers to savings on fuel especially for planning hulls. As it relates to foam cored boats, they are noisy and are not even in the same grade.

And lastly your ride is more comfortable, period, even at displacement speeds, IMO. With an interior built with favorable cedars, saving weight and properly maintained, all of your clothes continue to smell nice over the years to boot.