Wooden Boats

[Pirogue]

RT Firefly: Thanks for the welcome. I think Takei was right. Lol. Oh My!

Marin & psneeld: Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on this.

2nd Can of Worms: So what about those old wood classics that have had their hulls and hard tops fiberglassed over? Big 'no no' or what? Part II - what about those old wood classics that have been epoxied several coats and then painted several coats? Are doing either of these things a great big or what? Thank you.

Fiberglass example:
36' 1961 Chris Craft Constellation
1961 Chris Craft Constellation Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Epoxy example:
I can't quickly find an example at the moment but I'm sure you've seen them, too.

Example of classic with less exterior varnish:
38' Stephens Sedan Cruiser 1947
Wolfe Marine Sales, Inc. (Seattle, WA)

 

[Nomad Willy]

I suspect "cruising hard in open water" may even be better in a wood boat as they are stronger setting aside puncture resistance of course but not many rocks to hit in open water. Wood boats may have the ability to flex more and flex more gracefully depending on her fasteners. But IMO a well fastened wood boat w sound wood throughout should be at least as capable and safe as a FG boat.

Other than that Scott your open minded post above is good ... and quite objective too.

 

[Pirogue]

Ugh! I posted a long reply but it didn't post... or maybe deleted because I did something forbidden, as I had a couple of example links included.

RT Firefly: Thanks for the welcome. I think Takei had it right. Lol. Oh My!

Marin & penneeld: Thanks for your input.

Can O' Worms, The Sequel - So what about those old wooden classics that have had the hull and hard top fiberglassed over? Excluding that being an abomination to a purist - is that something to run from? And #2 - what about those old wooden classics that have been epoxied with several coats, followed by several coats of paint. Big, 'aww, hell, no!' or what? Thanks.

(no links this time. hopefully this will post this time.)

 

[AusCan]

Welcome Pirogue,
I too would love an old wooden boat, if it was completely refurbished and 100% clear of any sign of wood rot. As has been mentioned, it costs a fortune to do properly and if the owner is expecting half his money back, it would still be an expensive boat.
If the hull has has been fibreglassed over - RUN AWAY. This is a cheap fix which is only done to buy some time. It is continuing to rot on the inside and nearing (or at) the end of its life.

A wooden boat which is fibreglassed over when new is a totally different story. If done properly, this can be a very effective way to have the best of both worlds.

 

[Pirogue]

Thanks manyboats and AusCan. I love the "Key Largo" which states it has a fiberglass hull. But I thought I saw it said fiberglassed over wood - but can't find that now. Maybe it was a typo. What a gorgeous old boat. I guess that's a typo on the fiberglass?

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

 

[Pirogue]

Okay... I guess my posts aren't showing when I use a link - says must be approved or something. Doh! At least I know now why. I'll use a pic instead.

Thanks manyboats and AusCan. I love the "Key Largo" which states it has a fiberglass hull. But I thought I saw it said fiberglassed over wood - but can't find that now. Maybe it was a typo. What a gorgeous old boat. I guess that's a typo on the fiberglass, huh?

1961 36' Chris Craft Constellation

Eek - The Teak! That would probably kill me to keep up with... sigh.

 

[FlyWright]

Okay... I guess my posts aren't showing when I use a link - says must be approved or something. Doh! At least I know now why.

There you go. I have taken care of that for your account now.

Normally, the first 10 posts are flagged if links are included. It's a filter to help keep our forums free from spam.

Welcome to Trawler Forum!!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. P. If that Chris is a '61, there's no way other than being a coated wood hull that the hull is FRP. CC started making FRP hulls around 1968/69. There was a thread on TF a while back regarding the fiber glassing of wooden hulls. Evidently there is "some" process that some posters stated was a good acceptable technique but you'll never convince me of that. Cold molded which is a wood encased in FRP technique is indeed an acceptable practice but not at all like, what I consider, the band-aid solution of glassing an existing wooden hull.
One other problem with wooden hulls in southern climates is worms.
Interesting there are no ER pictures of that CC. Could be a "lipstick on a pig" scenario.

 

[dwhatty]

Now the hull of a carvel planked wooden boat that has been properly cold molded (not fiberglasssed) over the original planks will last a very long time and greatly reduce maintenance.

 

[yachtbrokerguy]

Last year I sold a 90 foot wooden boat that was built in 1939. A Mathis Trumpy which many considered the ultimate American yacht built from the late 1920s through around 1970. The previous owner purchased the boat for $1,500,000 and then spent $2,500,000 on a refit. The asking price when I had the boat on display in the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show was $1,500,000.
If you like classic wood boats and have very deep pockets go for it, if you think the low purchase price will make boating affordable for you compared to fiberglass, think again.

 

[psneeld]

I suspect "cruising hard in open water" may even be better in a wood boat as they are stronger setting aside puncture resistance of course but not many rocks to hit in open water. Wood boats may have the ability to flex more and flex more gracefully depending on her fasteners. But IMO a well fastened wood boat w sound wood throughout should be at least as capable and safe as a FG boat.

Other than that Scott your open minded post above is good ... and quite objective too.

If you think a wooden boat is"stronger"....I have more than a few rescues from hoisting them out of the water that would disagree with you.....bulletproof is meaningless if someone sticks a knife in you.

 

[Pirogue]

Last year I sold a 90 foot wooden boat that was built in 1939. A Mathis Trumpy which many considered the ultimate American yacht built from the late 1920s through around 1970. The previous owner purchased the boat for $1,500,000 and then spent $2,500,000 on a refit. The asking price when I had the boat on display in the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show was $1,500,000.
If you like classic wood boats and have very deep pockets go for it, if you think the low purchase price will make boating affordable for you compared to fiberglass, think again.

Thanks but if you've read my posts, I was speaking of finding a fully restored wood boat - not sinking 150% more into a project boat. Plus... if I had $4 million dollars to put in a boat like your client - I sure as hell wouldn't be looking at a 36' Chris Craft.

It just looks like $50k or so can buy some really nice, fully restored old wood boats - compared to what I've seen for fiberglass. I couldn't live aboard an express cruiser type and would feel like Jonah being swallowed by the whale each night. But many of those old boats of sufficient size are so livable looking. I'm about scared off wood boats now. I wish there were a way to encapsulate the darn wood hull securely and properly.

Alas... a pipe dream, I suppose. (Pirogue swims sadly away into the sunset, boatless and dejected)

 

[psneeld]

Thanks but if you've read my posts, I was speaking of finding a fully restored wood boat - not sinking 150% more into a project boat. Plus... if I had $4 million dollars to put in a boat like your client - I sure as hell wouldn't be looking at a 36' Chris Craft.

It just looks like $50k or so can buy some really nice, fully restored old wood boats - compared to what I've seen for fiberglass. I couldn't live aboard an express cruiser type and would feel like Jonah being swallowed by the whale each night. But many of those old boats of sufficient size are so livable looking. I'm about scared off wood boats now. I wish there were a way to encapsulate the darn wood hull securely and properly.

Alas... a pipe dream, I suppose. (Pirogue swims sadly away into the sunset, boatless and dejected)

If you think $50k is a fully restored wooden boat...that is exactly what I posted before..either you found a 1.0 percenter or you are kidding yourself.

 

[Pirogue]

Your point is well taken, psneeld - and I'm no expert as I said, but that would depend on the size of the boat, wouldn't it? And that its definitely a niche market with not many wanting that type of boat over a rip-roaring clorox bottle boat. And I'm sure "restored" is used in a relative way to many, whether correctly or not. I took liberties saying "restored" if that means to you, everything original and genuine down to the toilet seat bolts and toothpicks in the galley. I only meant the old boats owned by aficionados that have boats restored by credible professionals to safe, seaworthy condition and beauty. I personally don't care if they used Amtico or Lonseal on the sole or whatever. And maybe there are modifications to the layout... horror to a purist - but - please do include a stand up shower and modern amenities!

I don't think all these guys selling classic type cruisers in the 32'-38' range for $50-$70k are all crooks or dangerous corner-cutters or boating on a rotten hull - not all of them, anyway. I know you didn't insinuate that - but you know what I mean. Most of these folks are losing money on the boat when they sell and have the receipts to prove it - they put so much into the restoration because they are passionate. I just thought someone else doing all that work and tiring of the parades and winning awards - one might find a good deal. But I'm most likely way off. Anyway, not meaning to be contrary - just showing where I was coming from and looking for. Thanks!

 

[Max Simmons]

Interesting post. In the right conditions I would and have considered wood boats. From what I recall though, the further North you are, the better luck maintaining it. Colder water and less sun. And a boat house, or at least covered moorage is a must, as the fresh (rain) water causes more damage than salt.
This is currently posted here in Seattle. If I was in the market for a 30' cruiser, I'd at least take a look. More personality than most 30'rs.


1941 Chris Craft Sedan Cruiser 30'

 

[psneeld]

Interesting post. In the right conditions I would and have considered wood boats. From what I recall though, the further North you are, the better luck maintaining it. Colder water and less sun. And a boat house, or at least covered moorage is a must, as the fresh (rain) water causes more damage than salt.
This is currently posted here in Seattle. If I was in the market for a 30' cruiser, I'd at least take a look. More personality than most 30'rs.


1941 Chris Craft Sedan Cruiser 30'

Yep...one of the many factors to consider when buying and owning a wooden boat...

 

[Nomad Willy]

Scott,
I should have said "production FG boat".

Max,
Further north is a catch 22. Cooler of course but much wetter in the PNW. We spent a whole year undoing the damage 8 years in Alaska did. If you do any boating you burn up maintenance weather. Wood rots just fine in Alaska. I gave up on paint like products and mixed my own oils.

 

[Pirogue]

I saw that same boat online, Max. It sure is sweet. And I love how they matched their dinghy... nice. Alas. I guess I should give in to the reason and logic of my betters on 'restored' wooden boats. I think I'll create a post on my perceptions of what I want/need and get suggestions... as I hope to have some of the distilled wisdom of these forums rub off on me in my search. Speaking of distilled... maybe I just need to sip something distilled right now and think about it more.

 

[psneeld]

I saw that same boat online, Max. It sure is sweet. And I love how they matched their dinghy... nice. Alas. I guess I should give in to the reason and logic of my betters on 'restored' wooden boats. I think I'll create a post on my perceptions of what I want/need and get suggestions... as I hope to have some of the distilled wisdom of these forums rub off on me in my search. Speaking of distilled... maybe I just need to sip something distilled right now and think about it more.

Please don't get me wrong....

Wooden boats are not demonic.

As I posted first..as long as a long list of items are considered.....they can be a wonderful boat whether a new cold molded one or a beauty of yesteryear.

What needs to be understood is what they require and what they have gotten or not.

Plus what you are willing to spend on the "not gotten".

Generally wooden boats have fallen out of favor...why? Answer that to yourself and you will understand the general consensus on wooden boats.

 

[Max Simmons]

Growing up we had a wooden 31' Trojan, built in 1967. Dad traded in a 27' wood Grandy he bought before I was born. We cruised the San Juans, and Canada for 12 years on that Trojan. Teak decks, mahogany hull, Oak stringers and frames. She was a beauty, and kept under cover. The decks were left raw, so min, upkeep other than cleaning, Some brightwork on the exterior we sanded and re-did every couple years. Hauled once a year for general maintenance, and Dad would go over the hull looking for rot, but never found any that I was aware of. I think we painted the hull once in the 12 yrs. Keeping it out of the constant winter rain was the key.
Our boat house neighbor ran his wooden Jones Goodell for 25 years that I knew him. Again, kept under cover. He did have to fix a soft spot on the side of the cabin, and a spot on the deck. Did that himself with what I would call moderate woodworking skills. Much easier job than fixing the rotted deck core that I am facing on my "fiberglass" trawler.

 

[psneeld]

Both glass and wood boats have thru hulls..both have to be watched closely....

How many glass boats have gone down due to a sprung laminate?

 

[Nomad Willy]

How many boats of any material "go down" ?

 

[HopCar]

Key Largo is a wooden boat. You can see the planking if you look close.
I've owned several wooden boats, biggest was a 23 ft Chris of early sixties vintage.
Tucker is right, you'll never get close to getting your money out when you sell. It's also possible for the value to go to zero if you let maintence slip. That said, there can be great satisfaction in owning and maintaining a classic wooden boat.

 

[OFB]

Why wood ? That's my question. If it is because you see yourself receiving a good deal on a larger platform we need to have a talk. I love my old wood boat but wood boats are simply arriving at an age , much like us, that is closing in to the end. Is what it is end of life. Even a "restored" or "well maintained" woody suffers from the average market condition of wood boats and the age of old FRP boats coming onto the market. Don't get me wrong here if I had the cash to build a boat today it be out of wood using todays technologies. Is what it is no secrets.


Really take a look at your intended purpose or what your dream expectations are. Are you interested in wood maintenance, in restoring a wood boat ? Do you have the skill set the tools, the place. The world is changing and you me are just along for the ride. I have no power with the market, or the insurance companies, marinas, or haul out facility. Yes you can insure a wood boat, haul it out, get moorage, buy and sell them. But if any of that gets away from you there is no hiding from Market value. FRP is and will be more forgiving today and a few years more down the road, as an example. How do you want to spend your cash? Is what it is.


Invader no 1 holds little value in todays market. Compared to a well maintained FRP boat. She also did not cost much. For me it really has been a square deal, but I have some experience with old boats including wood.


Start small IMO, in any material, do not invest heavily in any hull material, learn the "basics" on what boats want need. Take that information to the next level and then to the next level.


I could care less what the hull material is, wood , frp, metal, rock. The material is just small part of the overall picture. But the market will, so how do you want to invest your time?


The good the bad and the ugly you have to laugh. If you can find a local boatyard , large one that you can walk around. It can be the reality check instead of the dockside brochure of sales. IMO.

I know I purchased a solid boat that would take me around the inside trading waters for years with work boat maintenance. There are deals on wood boats but all boats are always in want. If you are going to replace water tanks, electronics, fuel tanks, decks, cushions, heaters, that work will net better results with a different hull material. Sad as that makes me feel

However if you choose to go with a wood boat in good condition, from my perspective it can be a lot of fun, great experience, and a sound financial choice. The 36 CC pictures from the brochure post show what seems to be an old woody in great shape. Maintain her she could be a solid platform for years but.

Is what it is The CC coho in the pics below is in the same cost category with different needs wants. As an example.

Oh I hope not to confuse. But my two cents.

 

[OFB]

Key Largo is a wooden boat. You can see the planking if you look close.
I've owned several wooden boats, biggest was a 23 ft Chris of early sixties vintage.
Tucker is right, you'll never get close to getting your money out when you sell. It's also possible for the value to go to zero if you let maintence slip. That said, there can be great satisfaction in owning and maintaining a classic wooden boat.

Honestly even after my post that "never get close " part holds true with any boat of any hull material. With wood you can limit the amount of loss if you start with close to zero.

 

[kulas44]

Speaking of "distilled" on a warm calm sunny day I can still walk down a dock and smell a wood boat before ever seeing it. Having owned a wood 44 foot sportfisher, a Kulas 44, I know that smell very well. It was lapstrake mahogany on bent oak ribs. An absolutely gorgeous boat and very well built. Real 3/4 inch laid teak decks and bright mahogany transom. WAY TO MUCH WORK and not enough fun time. The problem on a wood boat, especially a power boat, is that you just cant access every inch of the boat. Tanks, engines, etc are in the way.

 

[markpierce]

Doubt wooden boats will die out completely. There are those that won't let it happen. Here is a photo of a Bird-class sloop being rebuilt from the keel up; observed in the boatyard servicing my boat:

 

[BruceK]

Doubt wooden boats will die out completely. There are those that won't let it happen. Here is a... Bird-class sloop being rebuilt from the keel up; observed in the boatyard servicing my boat:

Looks nearly as extensive as Hendo`s "rebuild", in a workspace Matt might well envy.

 

[Tidahapah]

Wooden boats will live on forever. They are built to last if looked after.
You just got to love them.
Next month is the Hobart Wooden Boat Festival down in Tasmania.
I all ready have Tidahapah down there and John on Flemingo will be heading south soon.
Hope to post some good photos during and after the festival.
Cheers
Benn

 

[dwhatty]

Maine is a treasure trove of wooden boats, both old and new. Pros with the skills to build and maintain them abound and eager new apprentices arrive frequently.

If you are ever in the Penobscot Bay area the first weekend in August, the up to 120 wooden boats of all sizes and ages participating in the Eggemoggin Reach Regatta is a grand sight to see. We used to race in it, but now we follow it in our power boat. If there is a good breeze, we can't keep up with some of the bigger boats that can do 12-15 kts.

Its is almost impossible to take a picture that includes the whole fleet. Here's a shot of a small portion of it.