I’m looking at a 43’ Ocean Alexander built in 1985. It has twin Lehmans with about 1000 hours. The asking is 80k. Am I crazy to consider a boat this old? Even assuming a decent survey, am I in for tremendous annual yard expenses? Thanks in advance for your input.
1985 Ocean Alexander
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Comodave
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Welcome aboard. With older boats before you make an offer make sure you can obtain insurance. Or put a contingency into the offer that you are able to get insurance. Peter Ricks at Novamar is a great insurance broker. He helped us and is a member here n TF. Pau Hana is his user name.
Here’s the listing:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1985-ocean-alexander-43-flush-aft-deck-8276193/
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1985-ocean-alexander-43-flush-aft-deck-8276193/
tiltrider1
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OA’s are solidly built. Assuming the boat was not crashed, sunk or stupidly maintained you wont have anything to fear.
Every major issue I have come across on an OA was work performed after the boat left the factory. This means a survey is of great importance but you certainly are not making a mistake by considering mid 80’s OA.
Every major issue I have come across on an OA was work performed after the boat left the factory. This means a survey is of great importance but you certainly are not making a mistake by considering mid 80’s OA.
tiltrider1
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That really depends on the condition of the boat and what improvements you require.
Maintenance comes in waves. Every year are oil changes and zinc’s. If you DIY then $200, if you pay some one else then $2000.
Next comes impellers, belts, fuel filters, water filters. Same sort of story.
Every 5 years come items like batteries, toilets, bilge pumps, fresH water pumps.
Every 10 years comes things like canvas, engine accessories and appliances.
It’s really hard to quantify this and some people can go twice as long on many of these items as appearances are less important to them.
The old adage of expect to pay 10% of the purchase price as the maintenance budget has held true as a good average. Meaning no one actually is at the average but if you group us all together that is what we average.
Maintenance comes in waves. Every year are oil changes and zinc’s. If you DIY then $200, if you pay some one else then $2000.
Next comes impellers, belts, fuel filters, water filters. Same sort of story.
Every 5 years come items like batteries, toilets, bilge pumps, fresH water pumps.
Every 10 years comes things like canvas, engine accessories and appliances.
It’s really hard to quantify this and some people can go twice as long on many of these items as appearances are less important to them.
The old adage of expect to pay 10% of the purchase price as the maintenance budget has held true as a good average. Meaning no one actually is at the average but if you group us all together that is what we average.
Action
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10% of the PP in maintenance over what period of time?
The OP is considering a $80k vessel. He/she could expect to pay $8K in how much time?
I ask as I am hoping to be in this same position in a few years.
And I get this is a ball park estimate, not an absolute.
tiltrider1
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10% per year.
Take this with a grain of salt, it’s an average which means you will be either higher or lower. A lot has to do with individual attitudes.
I bought a boat cheap because of neglected maintenance. I spend more than 10% a year. Party because I am doing catch up maintenance and partly because I do upgrade maintenance.
In my case I rarely like things others seem to like. When it comes to canvas I hate clear vinyl. I was happy to buy a boat with bad canvas knowing I was going to completely redesign it. So, not only did I have the expense of new canvas but the expenSe of upgrading the vinyl to makrolon. Some one else mighT have taken the existing canvas, patched it and had new vinyl windows sewn in. I paid $30,000, some one else might have paid $3,000. This is why it’s so hard to give maintenance estimates.
Take this with a grain of salt, it’s an average which means you will be either higher or lower. A lot has to do with individual attitudes.
I bought a boat cheap because of neglected maintenance. I spend more than 10% a year. Party because I am doing catch up maintenance and partly because I do upgrade maintenance.
In my case I rarely like things others seem to like. When it comes to canvas I hate clear vinyl. I was happy to buy a boat with bad canvas knowing I was going to completely redesign it. So, not only did I have the expense of new canvas but the expenSe of upgrading the vinyl to makrolon. Some one else mighT have taken the existing canvas, patched it and had new vinyl windows sewn in. I paid $30,000, some one else might have paid $3,000. This is why it’s so hard to give maintenance estimates.
BDofMSP
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Keep in mind that twin engines will be twice as much oil, filters, impellers, zincs, coolant, transmission fluid, etc. And when something breaks or needs preventative replacement, you'll want to do both (raw water pump, trans oil cooler, aftercooler, heat exchanger, etc etc.)
I have twins and winterization (which I do 100% myself) is about $1000 every year. This year it was a new battery bank, last year it was injectors and a valve adjustment (again, times two), the year before it was servicing aftercoolers and HX. Next year that maintenance is due again. Oh and the AC circuit board went out ... blah blah blah.
Each of those things is THOUSANDS if the yard is doing it, and even DYI the parts are extremely expensive.
And none of that stuff is the stuff you really want to do on an older boat, like upgrade the electronics, replace the head and permeated hoses, get LED lighting installed, modernize your battery charger / solar, etc.
Not trying to spread fear, but go in with your eyes open. All boats need a lot of love, but older boats even more so. $8k annually (before slip and winter storage, and insurance) seems very appropriate to me. Then add enhancements.
BD
I have twins and winterization (which I do 100% myself) is about $1000 every year. This year it was a new battery bank, last year it was injectors and a valve adjustment (again, times two), the year before it was servicing aftercoolers and HX. Next year that maintenance is due again. Oh and the AC circuit board went out ... blah blah blah.
Each of those things is THOUSANDS if the yard is doing it, and even DYI the parts are extremely expensive.
And none of that stuff is the stuff you really want to do on an older boat, like upgrade the electronics, replace the head and permeated hoses, get LED lighting installed, modernize your battery charger / solar, etc.
Not trying to spread fear, but go in with your eyes open. All boats need a lot of love, but older boats even more so. $8k annually (before slip and winter storage, and insurance) seems very appropriate to me. Then add enhancements.
BD
High Wire
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Per year. Guesstimate. Some years are better than others. Some years you get a hurricane mess everything up. Or a failed heat exchanger. Or a fuel tank springs a leak. And on and on. I have to ask if you go over your budget will you put off necessary maintenance? If the answer is yes then there will be trouble. Small boats can be left on a trailer in the driveway when funds get tight. Boats that spend 24/7 in the water need whatever it takes, now. That’s why I would add to that 10%, 50% of the boat cost in ready funds (available in less than a week) for when Uncle Big Bill has an unexpected visit.
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Action
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^^^^ Thanks that helps too.
Not a fan of clear vinyl either.
I do understand upgrade maintenance. For me that would be optional (and necessary because I am that way) in calculation of cost.
My only comparison is classic cars. (I have a bunch)
There are items that are necessary just to use it on the road. (water)
There are items that I want to do because I deem that as needed/wanted/desired.
Then there is the unexpected.
My guess is in the first year or so, bringing a previously owned vessel to the status of well maintained is going to be more expensive than in subsequent years. Typically no matter who owned it before me. I usually take previous owners maintenance as a suggestion and start the maintenance cycle over by changing most fluids/filters and belts.
Difficult to plan or price out the unexpected. By defination it is not known.
The desired or wanted upgrades can be done when I want as they are not necessary to the "well maintained" category.
Thanks for the posting.
Not a fan of clear vinyl either.
I do understand upgrade maintenance. For me that would be optional (and necessary because I am that way) in calculation of cost.
My only comparison is classic cars. (I have a bunch)
There are items that are necessary just to use it on the road. (water)
There are items that I want to do because I deem that as needed/wanted/desired.
Then there is the unexpected.
My guess is in the first year or so, bringing a previously owned vessel to the status of well maintained is going to be more expensive than in subsequent years. Typically no matter who owned it before me. I usually take previous owners maintenance as a suggestion and start the maintenance cycle over by changing most fluids/filters and belts.
Difficult to plan or price out the unexpected. By defination it is not known.
The desired or wanted upgrades can be done when I want as they are not necessary to the "well maintained" category.
Thanks for the posting.
mvweebles
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As a guy with a 1970 trawler, 1985 sounds middle agrd.
There are three buckets of costs
1. Holding costs - insurance, slip - predictable.
2. Maintenance costs - vary with usage. Cost will vary with whether you're a DIY person or a check-signing person . Predictable but lumpy (every couple years there may be a major service, haul/bottom paint, brightwork, engine hoses/belts replaced, etc.).
3. Repairs and upgrades. Not predictable. Sky's the limit.
For #2 and #3, I'd say that if you keep the boat for 10-years, you will 'buy' the boat at least once, perhaps twice. Likely somewhere in between......if you're lucky
Peter
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Max Simmons
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Well it's a year newer than my 1984 38' OA which I've owned now for 16 years. I'd say that they are subject to much the same issues as other Taiwan boats of that era; spongy decks, failing fuel tanks, leaky windows, etc. maybe a little less than some others, but all depends on how it was maintained as is repeated here. We had a couple small soft spots on the side decks and that's been about it. It's been kept in a covered shed since 2003 which helps considerably.
No teak decks is a plus. I'm wondering if that's factory or done later?
That's an astonishing low amount of hours on the Lehmans, likely that boat sat a lot which is not always a good thing, but survey should hopefully reveal any serious issues.
If it surveys out OK, I'd go for it. I've always like the lines of this era OA. Had to chuckle at "Fred Monk Jr." in ad
No teak decks is a plus. I'm wondering if that's factory or done later?
That's an astonishing low amount of hours on the Lehmans, likely that boat sat a lot which is not always a good thing, but survey should hopefully reveal any serious issues.
If it surveys out OK, I'd go for it. I've always like the lines of this era OA. Had to chuckle at "Fred Monk Jr." in ad
tiltrider1
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For canvas windows there are two products. Vinyl and polycarbonate. Names like Eisenglass and Stratoglass are trade names for UV coated vinyl. Makrolon is a trade name for UV coated polycarbonate, Lexan is a trade name for non coated polycarbonate.
Polycarbonate has less distortion than vinyl. It is very much like looking through acrylic or glass. All these products come in various thicknesses. Application determines the best thickness. While most canvas companies will only work in one thickness this does not necessarily give the best result.
BruceK
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Age is not an impediment if the boat is well kept. The substantial engine hour difference needs explaining, as do low hours. Could be one was out of action for an extended period, or a defective meter, or ....
Both Lehmans, the less common higher stressed turbo versions, and genset, look freshly painted, boat has likely been thoroughly detailed if that`s been done. Check details of recent work.
Could be some water staining on teak paneling around/under some windows/port lights. Decks look well redone.
Survey carefully. No survey picks everything. What it does pick likely costs more than expected to fix.
Windlass looks older, they don`t last forever, exposed chain looks quite good.
Good luck with it.
Both Lehmans, the less common higher stressed turbo versions, and genset, look freshly painted, boat has likely been thoroughly detailed if that`s been done. Check details of recent work.
Could be some water staining on teak paneling around/under some windows/port lights. Decks look well redone.
Survey carefully. No survey picks everything. What it does pick likely costs more than expected to fix.
Windlass looks older, they don`t last forever, exposed chain looks quite good.
Good luck with it.
SeaDogAK
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I was also puzzled by the engine hours. Under 1000 hours for 38 year old engines is unusual. Either the engines were rebuilt at some point, or the boat has sat an awful lot, which can be hard on engines; if it’s been sitting and not used, have the engines had regular maintenance?
Comodave
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Or the hour meters did not work, could be a lot of reasons.
mvweebles
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Except for insurance restrictions, I just don't understand all the hand-wringing over engine hours and age. The boat is either in decent condition or it's not. I've seen 10-year old charter boats that were used pretty hard. And I've seen 70-year old boats that were masterpieces. Same with engines. About the only age-related issue that can be hard to diagnose is steel fuel tanks. Everything else can be picked-up in a thorough survey by a knowledgeable and detail-oriented professional.
If you like the boat, suits your needs, and the price is fair given its condition, buy it.
Peter
If you like the boat, suits your needs, and the price is fair given its condition, buy it.
Peter
ranger58sb
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Unlike vinyl, Makrolon also won't roll up; opening generally means snapping a panel to the underside of a hardtop or bimini... or removing the panel completely for a while.
Seems to me Makrolon has a new name these days... came to market just as we were replacing our came-with-the-boat front vinyl panel with Makrolon (or whatever it's called now).
EZ2CY is another similar product... and it too might have a new name now.
-Chris
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Our FB enclosure is Stamoid with Lexan Margard UV coated for clears. Philbrooks did it and my take is the product is one thing but the capability of the installer another. After six years the Stamoid looks good with still crystal clear Lexan.
Pete Meisinger
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That looks to be a great boat at a good price. Are you sure you want a boat on the West coast, thats the only drawback I see.
pete
pete
Keeperdad23
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We just bought our retirement boat; A 1984 C&L Sea Ranger 39'. Topsides are completely refurbished and 2K hrs on the engines with major maintenance performed. Is it perfect? No. Needs some minor maintenance, has some blisters (as all older taiwan hulls will), but the hull is solid, tanks are good, and it checked all our boxes. My thoughts were if I was looking for a perfect boat I would still be looking. Throw off the lines and get underway!
fgarriso
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Does the seller have complete maintenance records ?
If so then you can sit down with him to review what has been done.
If not then you can consider that nothing has been done, and then $10,000 would not even be close to a starting point.
If so then you can sit down with him to review what has been done.
If not then you can consider that nothing has been done, and then $10,000 would not even be close to a starting point.
Taras
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One of the biggest things I would look at is the condition of the TANKS. These were built mostly out of steel and most are leaking or about to leak by now. If the PO replaced the tanks, that is a different story, but if they have not been replaced......you gotta really check it out because that is a very big expense to replace them.
tiltrider1
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I agree, when buying a 30 year old boat, you better have a fuel tank replacement plan from the beginning.
I walked away from a boat once because I could not figure out how to get the washer and dryer out and the only way to replace the fuel tank was to cut the back deck open. The w/d were original and the tank was steel showing signs of serious corrosion.
With my current boat I could see that the tanks were built in sections so that they could easily be moved through all the doors.
