Greenline batteries

[twistedtree]

There are many types of LiPo battery, Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) is just one of them. See the link below:

I agree there are different types of LiPo batteries, but I am unaware of LFP being one of them. They are more typically LCO or NMC.


So in the Greenlines, what are the two different batteries they refer to in this statement:


[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]Greenline Yachts utilize for the H-Drive system the best lithium (Li-Po) battery technology available: up to 26 kWh on Greenline 33 and 39, up to 50 kWh on the Greenline 40 and up to 80 kWh on 45, 48 Fly and 48 Coupe. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]For the standard onboard service, we equip our boats with LiFePO4-technology based batteries. [/COLOR]

 

[C. Monaghan]

They are talking about the same battery. They are just mentioning that the H-Drive (that’s the Mahle electric motor) on all the models mentioned use LiPo batteries. Then they qualify that statement indicating the type of LiPo batteries used are LiFePO4 batteries.

Keep in mind that translations from any language, in this case Slovenian, to English aren’t always perfect and can cause some confusion.

I agree there are different types of LiPo batteries, but I am unaware of LFP being one of them. They are more typically LCO or NMC.


So in the Greenlines, what are the two different batteries they refer to in this statement:


[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]Greenline Yachts utilize for the H-Drive system the best lithium (Li-Po) battery technology available: up to 26 kWh on Greenline 33 and 39, up to 50 kWh on the Greenline 40 and up to 80 kWh on 45, 48 Fly and 48 Coupe. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(39.100000%, 38.900000%, 38.700000%)]For the standard onboard service, we equip our boats with LiFePO4-technology based batteries. [/COLOR]

 

[sunchaser]

Two thoughts:
- Rod's refusal to work on Greenline's battery systems is telling
- A decent description by Greenlne as to manufacturing details on their batteries could prove helpful

 

[mvweebles]

They are talking about the same battery. They are just mentioning that the H-Drive (that’s the Mahle electric motor) on all the models mentioned use LiPo batteries. Then they qualify that statement indicating the type of LiPo batteries used are LiFePO4 batteries.



Keep in mind that translations from any language, in this case Slovenian, to English aren’t always perfect and can cause some confusion.

As a casual observer, sure seems like the cited page Fletcher 500 posted took pains to call out two different lithium battery types. Sounds like you are pretty happy with your Greenline. Maybe reach out to them to alert their marketing material is less than precise, and the confusion (if any) is creating a drag in the boating community.

Cool boat.

Peter

 

[Iggy]

It is a cool boat! The odd thing about it when I was at the Newport Boat show. It came with a full size fridge. But the waste tank was 20 or 25 gals. I can't remember which, but telling the salesmen that my 29 footer that I currently had, had a bigger waste tank.

I was surprised by the room in the engine compartment! You could get it everything.

You differently did not need a genset. You have the main engine, than the generator/electric motor and than drive shaft. If the main motor was running then the electric motor was a generator. But for any population, the electric motor has to turn.

I was little concerned on the wear of the electric motor always turning even if you didn't need it. I can't remember if there was an ALT or not on the main motor.

 

[twistedtree]

They are talking about the same battery. They are just mentioning that the H-Drive (that’s the Mahle electric motor) on all the models mentioned use LiPo batteries. Then they qualify that statement indicating the type of LiPo batteries used are LiFePO4 batteries.

Keep in mind that translations from any language, in this case Slovenian, to English aren’t always perfect and can cause some confusion.

But elsewhere in the specs they indicate those batteries are very different capacities, suggesting they are different, not the same. Anyway, I think what Greenline has published is ambiguous at best and I'd be really interested in getting to the bottom of it. As you point of LiPo speaks to the battery's construction, not it's chemistry.



I have been trying to find a battery MSDS or anything more definitive, but so far come up empty handed. And LFP PiPo would be a first for me, so quite interesting. All I have found are some current research papers, but nothing about actual product.

 

[ScottC]

I'm not at all familiar with the components used on the newer Greenlines, but from what I've read in the specs shared here, I tend to agree with TT. It is my belief that once the facts are confirmed via VISUAL INSPECTION of the batteries, the propulsion batteries will, indeed, turn out to be LiPo. And the house batteries LiFePO4.

 

[C. Monaghan]

Hi Scott,

Our 2019 Greenline 39 Hybrid has six Group 31 AGM batteries — two for the bow thruster (located beneath the forward berths), two for the stern thruster (located in the stern locker beneath the cockpit all the way aft), one start battery and one house service battery (both located in the same compartment as the LiPo battery beneath the helm seat). The 12V AGM house service battery powers all the 12V electronics, cabin and navigation lighting, water pump, graywater pump, toilet, bilge pump, windlass, etc. They are charged by the diesel engine’s alternator, and the battery charger that runs off the inverter.

There is one, and only one, LiPo battery pack, which is a Metron 48.1 Volt 11.5 kWh 240Ah LiFePO4 battery, which powers the Mahle electric motor, is charged by the solar panels on the roof, as well as by the engine or shore power, provides continuous 110 Volt AC to all power outlets, including those for the refrigerator/freezer, microwave oven and induction cooktop, it powers the inverter, etc.

The AGMs are all Interstate batteries.

We are certain of all of this. As the owners of this boat, we know and have familiarized ourselves with as much as possible regarding the boat’s systems. As a matter of fact we were aboard today to get at the bow thruster and charge all the AGMs. The one that is the 12 Volt service battery is here at home since it needs to be replaced and we’ll replace it with an identical Group 31 AGM.

I'm not at all familiar with the components used on the newer Greenlines, but from what I've read in the specs shared here, I tend to agree with TT. It is my belief that once the facts are confirmed via VISUAL INSPECTION of the batteries, the propulsion batteries will, indeed, turn out to be LiPo. And the house batteries LiFePO4.

 

[twistedtree]

Hi Scott,

Our 2019 Greenline 39 Hybrid has six Group 31 AGM batteries — two for the bow thruster (located beneath the forward berths), two for the stern thruster (located in the stern locker beneath the cockpit all the way aft), one start battery and one house service battery (both located in the same compartment as the LiPo battery beneath the helm seat). The 12V AGM house service battery powers all the 12V electronics, cabin and navigation lighting, water pump, graywater pump, toilet, bilge pump, windlass, etc. They are charged by the diesel engine’s alternator, and the battery charger that runs off the inverter.

There is one, and only one, LiPo battery pack, which is a Metron 48.1 Volt 11.5 kWh 240Ah LiFePO4 battery, which powers the Mahle electric motor, is charged by the solar panels on the roof, as well as by the engine or shore power, provides continuous 110 Volt AC to all power outlets, including those for the refrigerator/freezer, microwave oven and induction cooktop, it powers the inverter, etc.

The AGMs are all Interstate batteries.

We are certain of all of this. As the owners of this boat, we know and have familiarized ourselves with as much as possible regarding the boat’s systems. As a matter of fact we were aboard today to get at the bow thruster and charge all the AGMs. The one that is the 12 Volt service battery is here at home since it needs to be replaced and we’ll replace it with an identical Group 31 AGM.

This is indeed a mystery. Is that a replacement battery pack from Metron? They offer a replacement made with LPF cells, exactly as you say. However they say that it's a replacement for the Greenline factory battery pack that uses Kokam cells. Looking at the Kokam cells, they are indeed liPo pouch cells based on NMC chemistry. Their operating voltage of 3.65vpc confirms this.

 

[ScottC]

Hi Scott,

There is one, and only one, LiPo battery pack, which is a Metron 48.1 Volt 11.5 kWh 240Ah LiFePO4 battery, which powers the Mahle electric motor, is charged by the solar panels on the roof, as well as by the engine or shore power, provides continuous 110 Volt AC to all power outlets, including those for the refrigerator/freezer, microwave oven and induction cooktop, it powers the inverter, etc.

Interesting. Also interesting to learn that they are now using Mahle electric motors instead of Iskra. Looking at Metron's shop, I see their replacement GL33 LifePO4 battery pack that's 10 KWH / 210 AH. The original GL33 Kokam LiPo batteries were 11.5 KWH / 240 AH. A number of years ago, I saw another vendor in Europe offering GL33 replacement batteries that were LifePO4 and 10 KWH / 210 AH. I find it curious that the LifePO4 replacement batteries are not offered in at least the original 240AH capacity. Perhaps the chemistry and physics prohibit this capacity from fitting into the same box (???). Anyway, the fact that your picture shows a 240AH battery makes me wonder a bit -- but then, you obviously have more space in the GL39 to accommodate a bigger(?) battery box.

 

[ScottC]

I had my original LiPo battery (2010) replaced in 2019. I ordered the replacement battery from SVP Yachts in Slovenia (The current GL manufacturer) and had them come to Sweden to perform the installation. I just had a look at some pictures I saved from that project. See below. Also, I checked my invoice (excerpt below). I also took advantage of the opportunity to upgrade to newer technology solar panels. Went from about a 1200w array to 1800w.


Edit: Taking a closer look at the serial number, it appears to me like the month and year of manufacture are contained within it.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

As battery technology advances I see that 48v 30a/h Lifepo4 are available in a CG2 profile. According to the Epoch website up to 10 batts can be paralleled to give 300 a/h total but more importantly a combined discharge current of of 1000 amps for 10 secs and a continuous output of 600 amps.

 

[CMS]

These were the batteries on one of the GreenLine's we worked on...

 

[twistedtree]

Interesting. Also interesting to learn that they are now using Mahle electric motors instead of Iskra. Looking at Metron's shop, I see their replacement GL33 LifePO4 battery pack that's 10 KWH / 210 AH. The original GL33 Kokam LiPo batteries were 11.5 KWH / 240 AH. A number of years ago, I saw another vendor in Europe offering GL33 replacement batteries that were LifePO4 and 10 KWH / 210 AH. I find it curious that the LifePO4 replacement batteries are not offered in at least the original 240AH capacity. Perhaps the chemistry and physics prohibit this capacity from fitting into the same box (???). Anyway, the fact that your picture shows a 240AH battery makes me wonder a bit -- but then, you obviously have more space in the GL39 to accommodate a bigger(?) battery box.

I think the capacity difference shows exactly why propulsion batteries are more often NMC or similar, and not LPF. Power density.

 

[DDW]

Also easier to get high currents out of NMC than LFP.

It is interesting that there are multiple aftermarket sources for replacements for these batteries.