DIY Maintenance

[backinblue]

I find it interesting that many boat owners insist on doing all their own maintenance. There is some value in knowing the ins and outs of your boat systems, but on the other hand I have also heard that some buyers shun boats that have not been professionally maintained. My question is what are the pros and cons of DIY? Is DIY mainly a matter of cost or is it more about being able to do repairs underway when needed? Regarding cost, would a professionally maintained boat with records demand a higher price that would offset the cost of paying for that maintenance? Some owners take on the most difficult tasks, and yet take their cars for an oil change. Thoughts?

 

[ranger58sb]

Generally there two (levels?) of maintenance: technically challenging and/or maybe needs special tools, versus run-of-the mill oil and filter changes and so forth.

Some things, some engine makers, really do want technical expertise, at least periodically. MAN, for example, "mandates" a really strict 1000-hour maintenance regime for their diesels... a good thing to have done (or mostly, or at least some, done) by a MAN guy.

OTOH, oil and filter changes every 100 hours or so is a decent way to save some money in labor, for those who can do it themselves. And the engine makers don't seem to hold that against anyone, as long as it can be proved to have been done. I don't think buyers are all that picky, either... and long as the work can be shown to have been done... and long as it all looks good (and in this example, maybe oil samples all test OK).

I suspect everyone decides their own thresholds. I, for instance, am not particularly interested in doing my own valve settings. I know how, don't want to. Somebody else may choose to do that themsevles. Hoses are another example; I don't mind doing that, others may not want to do it themselves. Fitting new turbos or aftercoolers... maybe not so hard, depends

And so forth.

-Chris

 

[Portage_Bay]

I find it interesting that many boat owners insist on doing all their own maintenance. There is some value in knowing the ins and outs of your boat systems, but on the other hand I have also heard that some buyers shun boats that have not been professionally maintained. My question is what are the pros and cons of DIY? Is DIY mainly a matter of cost or is it more about being able to do repairs underway when needed? Regarding cost, would a professionally maintained boat with records demand a higher price that would offset the cost of paying for that maintenance? Some owners take on the most difficult tasks, and yet take their cars for an oil change. Thoughts?

I think that as with all things boating it depends. Do I have a boat worth many hundreds of thousands, maybe millions? Or do I have a sub $100K boat?

I paid $70K, when I get ready to sell it in about 10 yrs it will most likely go for less no matter how much or who I pay to do the maintenance. So why would I pay someone $110 / hr to do work I can do or can learn how to do? It's more a matter of quality of the experience of owning the boat. There is some work I hire out just because I don't want to do it. Or I don't have access to the tools and materials. Or because I have a self imposed deadline of a cruise coming up and know I won't get it done in time.

And sometimes I have no choice. I just can't find someone to work on the old gear so I ask questions here and other places get out my tools, skin my knucles and figure it out.

 

[bayview]

I did most of my own inside and ER work because i wanted to know how well it was done. The hull and props shafts etc were left to yards. All canvas was done by a great canvas shop that did very good work. Installing new electronics was left to experts. carpet was done by specialists while I replaced broken window glass.

So I guess it was a mix. Just because someone is a pro does not mean they are perfect at everything. There is more than enough work to keep everyone busy.

IMO the more time an owner spend working on his boat the fewer unplanned repairs he will have.

 

[rslifkin]

I do most of my own work for a few reasons. It's cheaper, I'm less likely to screw something up by not knowing a detail of the boat, I know exactly what was done and how (which makes future diagnostics and maintenance easier). And I'm not bound to someone else's schedule.

Occasionally I've had a job I wanted someone else to do, but ended up doing it myself because it would have been a several week wait to have it done and I could do it as soon as the part arrived.

 

[psneeld]

Its comical in that many of the same people who want professionally maintained boats complain about the results every time they have their boat "professionally maintained".

 

[boathealer]

Its comical in that many of the same people who want professionally maintained boats complain about the results every time they have their boat "professionally maintained".

Yep. I like doing my own work, and it saves money, BUT.... I really do it because I have seen the work "professsionals" do. I have seen some real CRAP from some "high-end" yards....I really would have loved to ask the "technician" - "Would you do that on your own boat? "

I want things done right, not just so they can get the next boat in...

Last yard I was at for bottom paint ("how hard can it be?") painted over my thruster prop zincs - two coats for safety.

 

[Benthic2]

Hmmmm......it seems like people don't trust the "professionals" to do the easier stuff, but they trust them to do the complicated stuff ???? Hmmm

 

[mvweebles]

I've never heard of value taking a ding due to DIY maintenance as long as it's done at regular intervals and in a professional manner. Not talking just oil changes and such, but waxing and installation of equipment and electronics. DIY is often poorly done with a commensurate whack in value. Challenge is that the DIY owner doesn't know that his install pales in comparison to what buyers may be seeing in professionally maintained boats.

 

[CharlieO.]

Not a boat owner currently....


I DIY because I am a cheapskate and have a hard time paying someone else to do something I know I can do. I do pay people to do some stuff I would rather not do. My biggest deciding factor though is the tools. If the job doesn't justify the price of me purchasing the specialty tools possibly needed I will hire it out. Most of the time I can justify the cost of the tools if I anticipate using it more than once.

 

[mvweebles]

Not a boat owner currently....


I DIY because I am a cheapskate and have a hard time paying someone else to do something I know I can do. I do pay people to do some stuff I would rather not do. My biggest deciding factor though is the tools. If the job doesn't justify the price of me purchasing the specialty tools possibly needed I will hire it out. Most of the time I can justify the cost of the tools if I anticipate using it more than once.

I've owned my boat for 23 years. I'm pretty handy, and I know boats pretty well. And I was pretty broke a good chunk of those early years so while not a cheapskate per se, I was forced to doing things myself.

Im not finishing up a refit. A good chunk of it is to correctly do the work I did half-assed. Wiring is a prime example. I could write a short novel on the wrong stuff I did and am having redone now.

All I can say it's its fairly cheap to do it half-assed. And while it's more expensive to do it right, it's worth it. I've done it both ways. Owning the same boat for so long means that I am the PO. And I cuss myself out all the time.

Peter

 

[CharlieO.]

I've owned my boat for 23 years. I'm pretty handy, and I know boats pretty well. And I was pretty broke a good chunk of those early years so while not a cheapskate per se, I was forced to doing things myself.

Im not finishing up a refit. A good chunk of it is to correctly do the work I did half-assed. Wiring is a prime example. I could write a short novel on the wrong stuff I did and am having redone now.

All I can say it's its fairly cheap to do it half-assed. And while it's more expensive to do it right, it's worth it. I've done it both ways. Owning the same boat for so long means that I am the PO. And I cuss myself out all the time.

Peter

It always pays off to do it right the first time. That's what I tell the kids anyway. Even though I am doing my own labor I always try do any maintenance up to code and or current standards and we are usually our own worst critics.


I do look forward to seeing updates on your boat once she leaves the yard.

 

[fgarriso]

I do all work myself with my wife ( supervising ).

In a past life was a 15 year marine service manager and Certified Master Tech.

 

[rslifkin]

Hmmmm......it seems like people don't trust the "professionals" to do the easier stuff, but they trust them to do the complicated stuff ???? Hmmm

If I'm having work done, it's typically because I lack the tools, ability, or knowledge to DIY it (for whatever reason). And then it's usually going to someone who specializes in that kind of work. Most of the issues come from the more jack-of-all-trades type of mechanics, etc. that work on 100 different boats and may not know every detail of yours, or are trying to get the job done quickly and may not notice something unrelated that's been bumped into and damaged, etc.

 

[Chrisjs]

Best if you can be there when using a professional. You can make sure the job is done right and perhaps learn how to do it next time. As previous some jobs require specialized tools and knowledge that most owners lack. While, I did most of my own maintenance because I felt it was important to know how to fix things when they went wrong underway, there were certain jobs that needed extra skill. On example was the removal and rebuild of my TwinDisc transmission, though I did work with the tech. to remove and reinstall the unit and worked directly with the TW rebuilder. Then there were a few electrical gremlins that needed a real electrician. And replacing the PSS shaft seal. As the saying goes, I spent my money on wine, women and song, and the rest I wasted (on the boat)!!!

 

[DavidM]

Unless I have a trusted mechanic, like TF member Ski in NC, I have no faith in run of the mill mechanics. If I do it myself and it is fixed, it is fixed. Rarely have I changed a part only to find that it didn't fix the problem.

It is not so much a question of cost or to develop skills that can be used in out of the way places. It is about doing it right, following a diagnostic regimen to find the true cause of the problem with minimal parts changing. When your diagnostic tree finds the cause, you know you have found it. The somewhat rare exception are two overlapping causes. You won't know it is fixed until you fix one of the potential causes.

These diagnostic trees aren't usually published so it takes some real intelligence to think through the causes of a problem and figure out simple diagnostic tests to rule it in or out. That is a mostly lost art today. It is more profitable to change parts than to think about it first.

David

 

[Simi 60]

. DIY is often poorly done with a commensurate whack in value. Challenge is that the DIY owner doesn't know that his install pales in comparison to what buyers may be seeing in professionally maintained boats.

So called professional is often poorly done and at great expense.
Probably had about $8k of work done on our vessel across several jobs over 4 years that I am having to revisit and do properly.

 

[porman]

Is my boat professionally maintained? While not a trained marine technician, I was a factory trained Porsche technician for 40 years. I do all my own mechanical maintenance, plumbing repair, electronic installation, electrical work. I just took all the coolers off and sent them out for cleaning, pressure testing, and resealing. I installed the hydronic heating system. All after considerable research of course. I let the experts do things like engine/shaft alignment and if the injection pumps ever need repair I will let someone else do that. I also let someone else do the bottom paint. My back won't take that. Honestly, if I had to pay someone to do all the work then we couldn't afford this boat. I hope anyone looking at buying this boat in the future won't hold this against me.

 

[DDW]

I do everything myself with rare exceptions, because my experience with even well recommended professionals has been often disappointing (or in some cases disastrous). If you've been in an area a long time and have come to trust particular workmen, then I'd use them again. (And in most cases, it is particular workmen, not the shop they are out of - the shop is at the mercy of their employees, half of which are below average.) Out cruising, you rarely have that opportunity, you pull into the harbor, ask around, then roll the dice. The chances of winning that roll are less than even, in my experience.

On the flip side, I've seen DIY repairs or installs that make even the worst professional look like a genius. When buying a boat, I'd like to see the maintenance records if available, but I'll judge the result of that maintenance for myself. Professional or DIY carries no weight either way.

 

[trawlercap]

1st repairs, get it working.

2nd, maintenance, get a workable schedule. (I have daily, weekly, monthly and annual routines)

3rd improvements! Get a new radio, stove, skiff etc.

Is easy to jump over 1 and 2 and land on 3..

I can get a boat in from almost any malady. But I'll call a tech to fix something out of my league. I'm not diesel mechanic, but I can change a cooling pump, spot leaks, see any pressure changes, change in exaust smoke, excess water in the bilge, change oil ect.

I hire techs (I know) to wire big stuff, Sideband radios etc.

I enjoy it all, it's why we call them "pleasure" boats.

Merry Christmas.

Swapping out diesel fuel filter on furnace (Honey why am I'm cold?) first few days of ownership.

 

[Beekeepergreg]

If you want something done right, do it yourself!
Added benefit is to teach your wife a broader vocabulary and she gets payback when you drag her out into rough seas.

 

[Xsbank]

The only thing I've ever paid for was bottom paint. Just too big and too flat and I'm too creaky. I'm just about to change out the injectors on the main, then rebuild the cooling system on the aux, then continue to finish the interior. If somebody could build it, somebody else can fix it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. b. As has been mentioned, folks are pretty well forced to DIY due to a shortage of anyone who actually earns their $120/hr rate. It's simply mind boggling to watch some of these mechanics "work".



It might be a good idea for anyone who's thinking of getting into boating to forget about make/model/condition and price of ANY boat and find a good reliable mechanic first. A good mechanic is worth twice his fee.

 

[mvweebles]

So called professional is often poorly done and at great expense.
Probably had about $8k of work done on our vessel across several jobs over 4 years that I am having to revisit and do properly.

True. Paying for work is no guarantee it's done well.

My pet peeve is wiring. It's an expensive pet peeve. Few people are willing to pay a premium for it. And very few DIY owners do it well.

But your point is taken.

Peter.

 

[Simi 60]

Greetings,
Mr. b. As has been mentioned, folks are pretty well forced to DIY due to a shortage of anyone who actually earns their $120/hr rate. It's simply mind boggling to watch some of these mechanics "work".

I'm amazed at this $120 an hour thing
Its not like they are rocket scientists and brain surgeons?

Surely that has to be for highly skilled trade qualified marine engineers or boat builders with an actual workshop and, the best of the best and even then that's pretty bloody rich.

Not just the average Joe who does a bit of sanding and painting which in Australia can be had for not much more than minimum wage.
Even when I was working for a living as a trade qualified boat builder I was hard pressed getting any more than award wages.
Which today, award wages for someone in the building game are about $30/hour

http://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000020#P563_60537

 

[C lectric]

I' m another who does ALMOST all of his own work except for the truly major stuff. Woodwork, fiberglass work, some engine repair, systems repair. I do it because I like to do it, mostly.

I was an electrician and millwright so although not boat work per se the work is similar and gave me good basics and familiarity with boats.

And yes, to save some money. If I were not able to do most of the work we could not afford the boat. Then when something does come along that is beyond me, prop work, shaft work, major gear or engine work, major bottom jobs I can then afford to pay for it, maybe.

Changes of oil and filters, coolant, fuel and air filters, belts and the like are not hard.
Bleeding the injection system of your diesel is something every boat owner should know how to do.. THey just take a few tools and the determination to learn to do them.
Keeping the plumbing working is the same, the determination to do it.

I have seen people who loved the boating but could not/would not learn and eventually the boat had to be sold. It wasn't always the cost but a simple breakdown that they could not deal with disabling them either ruining a trip or sticking them in some out of the way place awaiting parts/service. So knowing something about your boat and being able and willing to do at least some of the work will help keep it running when otherwise you will simply be stuck even if you have the money to pay.

For selling one of the biggest mistakes people make, DIY or hired out is they do not keep records.
If hired out keep the receipts. Keep a log book with the receipts to back it up. Doesn’t need to be fancy, just done.

For DIY I am not talking about every two bit receipt but major work receipts, the records of what the owner did, and the parts/supplies in a maintenance log.
With that the owner, when selling, can back up what was said. Let the purchaser look it over but not to take untill after the boat is theirs.

A book could be written about this but if you cannot/will not learn to do some of the work then you may need a BEEG chequebook and be prepared to be stuck for even relatively simple problems.

 

[Barking Sands]

My buddy who has a 30 foot gas bubble boat (Regal I think) recently had an engine issue where it was running poorly. He found a "professional" mobile marine mechanic to come out and take a look. Keep in mind this was the second mechanic to work the same issue. First one changed a fuel pump for like $800 but it did not help. Anyways this mechanic came out and quickly diagnosed the problem. He pulled off his throttle body assembly to his Volvo gas motor with all the sensors and pointed to a particular sensor. He said this was the issue and he can go get a new one and be back later that day to get him running again. He just needed $400 for the part. So my buddy gave him the $400 and he took the cash and his throttle body and off he went... never to be seen again :lol: He must have known exactly what he was doing because the replacement Volvo assembly was around $1200.
This was about 4 months ago.

So yes..not only did he take his cash...but his parts too.:lol:
Florida is crawling with these people. I have not let my buddy live that one down yet. We were able to determine the Volvo TB and all sensors are just late model GM stuff. So he located replacements for 1/3 the cost. So thats good.

 

[Bacchus]

C lactic wrote.
For selling one of the biggest mistakes people make, DIY or hired out is they do not keep records.

If hired out keep the receipts. Keep a log book with the receipts to back it up. Doesn’t need to be fancy, just done.

For DIY I am not talking about every two bit receipt but major work receipts, the records of what the owner did, and the parts/supplies in a maintenance log.

With that the owner, when selling, can back up what was said. Let the purchaser look it over but not to take untill after the boat is theirs.

I absolutely agree that whether DIY or paid for many fail to keep accurate and complete records. This adds value as an owner and as a seller. I have tried to build an accurate parts list before they are needing replacement and mention it when having others do work. They often appreciate the time & effort saved by me providing the info and it reduces the labor $. Forums like this can be a real asset for ensuring correct part #s and suppliers are available.
Buyers have appreciated seeing the records and i have never had a question of DIY vs Pro. Just knowing it was done is the key.

 

[JD5652]

I do most all maintenance and upgrades on my boats. Primarily because I know it's done right and after a while when something breaks, I likely know what it is NOT.

If it's something major (like engine overhaul), I will defer to the professionals, but try to watch and learn even then. I try to only deal with known quantities of professional thereby avoiding the wayward scammer or incompetent "professional".

Does not hurt that it saves $$$$ as well.

 

[FWT]

"Every man has got to know his own limitations."

"If you don't have enough time / money to do it right the first time, why do you think you will have it to do it a second time?"

Part of the answer for the task ahead is whether you can. Part is whether you want to. Part is whether you SHOULD. Part is whether you have a good yard you trust. Part is whether you have the time to take your time, or the money to let the yard take their time.

Boats, dirt homes, its pretty much the same tune. While you "can" do a lot of the jobs, at some point you realize you can allow that to become your life. Or, you can make a call and enjoy the time you were not spending do it. Choose wisely.