Garage CNC Cutting Table revolution.

[Rustybarge]

You can now buy Mini - CNC cutting tables for home use at a very reasonable cost ... 8'x4' looks interesting at $3,800

CNCRouterParts

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/standard-cnc-machine-kits-c-46_29.html

All those home build boat projects you were thinking of building suddenly become possible.

 

[Rustybarge]

Just talked to my son who has an IT degree, and it took him one week to develop a square PC case in sketch-up, and 3 weeks to get rid of the errors and bugs , and that's for a square box .

Apparently developing curved surfaces is very complex , and transferring the cutting code to router on large surfaces like a 8x4' difficult to achieve with good accuracy .

 

[mbevins]

Just talked to my son who has an IT degree, and it took him one week to develop a square PC case in sketch-up, and 3 weeks to get rid of the errors and bugs , and that's for a square box .

Apparently developing curved surfaces is very complex , and transferring the cutting code to router on large surfaces like a 8x4' difficult to achieve with good accuracy .

I suspect he may not have the best software. The decent stuff can cost as much as he paid for the table. However he should find a forum to look for assistance on best ways to design and program these hobby tables.

 

[what_barnacles]

Too primitive.

It requires a parallel port from a pc to control the drive axis motors, I havent seen a parallel port on a pc in quite a while.

They warn about the Z axis being flimsy as well when working with wood.

 

[Rustybarge]

I suspect he may not have the best software. The decent stuff can cost as much as he paid for the table. However he should find a forum to look for assistance on best ways to design and program these hobby tables.

There's usually a good reason why the big boys charge lots for their professional services; its not as easy as it seems to get the accuracy with a diy setup as a $500k CNC machine....

 

[Rustybarge]

Too primitive.

It requires a parallel port from a pc to control the drive axis motors, I havent seen a parallel port on a pc in quite a while.

They warn about the Z axis being flimsy as well when working with wood.

..and the free software doesn't have the facility to develop curved surfaces acurately.

I think we're a good way off 3d printing large objects yet; maybe it's the same story with 2d CNC cutting ?

 

[warren]

If you want to see one of these in action check out U-tube 'SVSeeker' a guy has been building a 70' steel boat semi-sail ,but he has used it to make all sorts of parts for his construction. He replaces the router with a plasma cutter and is cutting port hole parts , deck knees, . With the router he is cutting everything from 10" dia plastic parts for rudder bearings, and casting patterns for propeller blades then casts in bronze!
He has a unique style and attitude but he get lots of volunteer help. You won't agree with everything they do but he is getting it done! And all in OK.
https://youtu.be/SrqMzgk3ffo
Check out about 1/2 way thru.
Also you can get much smaller version of a router table to make small parts.
W.

 

[mramoo]

That table is only about 1/3 of what you will need. You still need a table top, hold-down system, dust collection, and electronics. I'll bet the total will still be over $10,000. and you still do not know what the accuracy and repeatable will be.
You will need tooling,(cutters get dull fast) and programing,

 

[Rustybarge]

If you want to see one of these in action check out U-tube 'SVSeeker' a guy has been building a 70' steel boat semi-sail ,but he has used it to make all sorts of parts for his construction. He replaces the router with a plasma cutter and is cutting port hole parts , deck knees, . With the router he is cutting everything from 10" dia plastic parts for rudder bearings, and casting patterns for propeller blades then casts in bronze!
He has a unique style and attitude but he get lots of volunteer help. You won't agree with everything they do but he is getting it done! And all in OK.
https://youtu.be/SrqMzgk3ffo
Check out about 1/2 way thru.
Also you can get much smaller version of a router table to make small parts.
W.

Wow that guy is building everything himself, even the props! Will look at vid when I get WiFi connection.....

 

[Rustybarge]

That table is only about 1/3 of what you will need. You still need a table top, hold-down system, dust collection, and electronics. I'll bet the total will still be over $10,000. and you still do not know what the accuracy and repeatable will be.
You will need tooling,(cutters get dull fast) and programing,

That sounds a bit like building a boat , the hull is just 1/3 of the total cost. I've noticed many boat plans that include cutting files are very expensive compared to the old fashioned lofted offsets, makes one think that it ain't that simple to generate the vast amount of data needed to develop compound curves.

 

[Lobstah]

Wow that guy is building everything himself, even the props! Will look at vid when I get WiFi connection.....

Not a boat, so thread drift, but your comment about "building everything himself" reminded me of this video I saw a few years back about a guy building a ....well...take a look. You'll see

https://youtu.be/SeUMDY01uUA

 

[Rustybarge]

Not a boat, so thread drift, but your comment about "building everything himself" reminded me of this video I saw a few years back about a guy building a ....well...take a look. You'll see

https://youtu.be/SeUMDY01uUA

You could build a real Ferrari in 20,000 hours over 12 years....

Truly Amazing!

 

[warren]

The table is just basically a variation on a cnc milling machine. But just intended for large panels with a short Z or vertical axis. Tolerances are not the same as with a heavy cast iron mill like we use but for most boatbuilding it's plenty good enough.
Check out the TV films of building of cruise ships. They cut huge quantiles of steel parts with very large tables using plasma underwater to reduce distortion and oxy acetylene cutting for the less critical stuff this has been arround for 40+years. It's the cheap small units that run off a PC with simple to use software that make these great for small builders. Some programs allow you to use a simple 2D line drawing (.DXF) and the cutter head, whatever type you fitted, to follow a line. Easy stuff! It gets harder from there!
3D printers do the same sort of thing but the finished piece is only from plastic with limited durability until you get into the fancy stuff.

 

[Rustybarge]

The table is just basically a variation on a cnc milling machine. But just intended for large panels with a short Z or vertical axis. Tolerances are not the same as with a heavy cast iron mill like we use but for most boatbuilding it's plenty good enough.
Check out the TV films of building of cruise ships. They cut huge quantiles of steel parts with very large tables using plasma underwater to reduce distortion and oxy acetylene cutting for the less critical stuff this has been arround for 40+years. It's the cheap small units that run off a PC with simple to use software that make these great for small builders. Some programs allow you to use a simple 2D line drawing (.DXF) and the cutter head, whatever type you fitted, to follow a line. Easy stuff! It gets harder from there!
3D printers do the same sort of thing but the finished piece is only from plastic with limited durability until you get into the fancy stuff.

Would it be possible to errect frames from a set of plans, then make accurate templates with thin plywood or cardboard; these patterns could then be laid flat to develop the .DFX cutting files .

In other words reverse engineer the cutting files from the templates, rather than generating 3d models with the software...

 

[warren]

Peter
It sound like you are over thinking the frames. Remember they are just simple flat panels which can be drawn from the imformation on the lines plan. Drawing in 2d is not to hard. There is no need for 3D drawing.
Now if you are trying to reverse engineer an existing design or boat then you need to take a set of offset ( dimensions) from the boat and then draw in a computer to develop the ?DXF file to use on the cutting machine.
If it was me trying to build a wood boat I would take the .DXF Files to a water jet cutting machine and have them cut all the frames in Plywood . It cuts wood so fast it would not be very expensive and super accurate.
If you want to get into drawing your own panels some programs are much easier to work with than others.

The other thing you might be asking about its making hull panels which are curved and then convert them to a flat panel. That is a more difficult process. But can be done.
Warren

 

[Rustybarge]

Peter
It sound like you are over thinking the frames. Remember they are just simple flat panels which can be drawn from the imformation on the lines plan. Drawing in 2d is not to hard. There is no need for 3D drawing.
Now if you are trying to reverse engineer an existing design or boat then you need to take a set of offset ( dimensions) from the boat and then draw in a computer to develop the ?DXF file to use on the cutting machine.
If it was me trying to build a wood boat I would take the .DXF Files to a water jet cutting machine and have them cut all the frames in Plywood . It cuts wood so fast it would not be very expensive and super accurate.
If you want to get into drawing your own panels some programs are much easier to work with than others.

The other thing you might be asking about its making hull panels which are curved and then convert them to a flat panel. That is a more difficult process. But can be done
Warren

I've been reading up on how to build in aluminium , and they recommend a 1.5mm gap between the plates; anything more and the weld will become brittle , and it seems that gap filling isn't possible like it is with steel fabrication .

The design I'm interested in comes as full size frames on paper, but they expect you to develop all the hull plating yourself with templates.

So I was thinking that digitising the the profiles from the templates which are after all curves surfaces, might be the easiest way to progress rather than using complex 3d development software....

 

[warren]

Hi
How would you digitize the hull panels? To creat the shape you will have to draw the hull In 3D from the frame drawing dimension assuming they give you dimensions and not just the full size frame patterns. They probably want you to make templates for the hull skin from the frames after you have set them up. The accuracy of you set up will determine whether hull panels developed in a 3 d file will actually fit. Unless you really want to go that route would it just be simpler to make the templates directly of the frame set up as normal? Or alternatively buy a design that was designed in 3D and have all the panels , frames and parts pre cut to accelerate the build process.
Warren

 

[Rustybarge]

Hi
How would you digitize the hull panels? To creat the shape you will have to draw the hull In 3D from the frame drawing dimension assuming they give you dimensions and not just the full size frame patterns. They probably want you to make templates for the hull skin from the frames after you have set them up. The accuracy of you set up will determine whether hull panels developed in a 3 d file will actually fit. Unless you really want to go that route would it just be simpler to make the templates directly of the frame set up as normal? Or alternatively buy a design that was designed in 3D and have all the panels , frames and parts pre cut to accelerate the build process.
Warren

Of course it would be easier to buy a design that already has CNC cutting files, but the planing tug boat I'm interested in is only available from one NA , wouldn't you know it! 22' Vandal - high-performance tug cruiser-boatdesign

The plan is to build the small 23' design as an experiment in alloy construction, then build a bigger 10-12mtr version. My cunning plan was to stretch the smaller boat , with the input of the NA of course, but save the $3-5k they charge just for the digital files.

That's were the idea of digitising the templates originated from....

 

[warren]

Looks like a fun project, you could save the cost of building the small version and put it into the design of the larger tug! There are boats out there like the Ranger or Nordic tugs with a performance hulls that look like tugs but plane! I'm sure there are other designs out there .
I would search the Older designs of Akins or Bolger for inspiration.
Warren

 

[Warwgn]

And i thought I was fancy having a plasma cutter in my garage.

 

[Rustybarge]

Looks like a fun project, you could save the cost of building the small version and put it into the design of the larger tug! There are boats out there like the Ranger or Nordic tugs with a performance hulls that look like tugs but plane! I'm sure there are other designs out there .
I would search the Older designs of Akins or Bolger for inspiration.
Warren

Thanks , I'll have a look at those designers .

 

[Rustybarge]

And i thought I was fancy having a plasma cutter in my garage.

I used the word ' garage' not its generic sense, but the modern slang for ' backyard build' sort of thing; but I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, so my definition may be way off ....lol.

 

[stubones99]

If you want to see one of these in action check out U-tube 'SVSeeker' a guy has been building a 70' steel boat semi-sail ,but he has used it to make all sorts of parts for his construction. He replaces the router with a plasma cutter and is cutting port hole parts , deck knees, . With the router he is cutting everything from 10" dia plastic parts for rudder bearings, and casting patterns for propeller blades then casts in bronze!
He has a unique style and attitude but he get lots of volunteer help. You won't agree with everything they do but he is getting it done! And all in OK.
https://youtu.be/SrqMzgk3ffo
Check out about 1/2 way thru.
Also you can get much smaller version of a router table to make small parts.
W.

They are using school bus windows for the pilot house... I brought it up and he shot me down saying so what if a wave breaks one. Except for the extra 5 tons of water filling the pilot house, swamping your electronics, your galley, and affecting your stability.

While I enjoy watching his efforts, I worry about his success on the open seas in a big storm.

 

[Warwgn]

I used the word ' garage' not its generic sense, but the modern slang for ' backyard build' sort of thing; but I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, so my definition may be way off ....lol.

Yep I figured that, I meant the same, I converted my garage into a shop long ago and have not used it for parking my vehicles other than the motorcycle for about 5 years now.

 

[Rustybarge]

Yep I figured that, I meant the same, I converted my garage into a shop long ago and have not used it for parking my vehicles other than the motorcycle for about 5 years now.

I've just sold my 125cc Chinese Monkey bike that i kept on the swim platform , and I'm looking for a replacement that can cruise at euro truck speed of I think (?)100kph or 62mph.

Any suggestions .... ?

 

[Warwgn]

I've just sold my 125cc Chinese Monkey bike that i kept on the swim platform , and I'm looking for a replacement that can cruise at euro truck speed of I think (?)100kph or 62mph.

Any suggestions .... ?

I picked up my 1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S last year for next to nothing, just had to dig into the trans and replace a shift pawl and spring ($18 in parts including oil) have put close to 30,000 miles on it since then with nothing but oil changes, 2 rear tires and one front, and just put all new brake pads on. I got maybe $1000 in it total, and I average 46 Mpg cruising 60-70 MPH. It is right around 500Lbs I think, but feels small and light weight.

Lots of small bikes like mine out there that just need very minor things done and you can have a great bike for dirt cheap. I have ridden this one for 1000 miles in one day and think it is very reliable, I ride it to and from work every day. Hijack....sorry....PM me if you wanna chat

 

[Rustybarge]

For anyone with restricted space, a vertical cutting table...

https://buildyourcnc.com/tutorials/example-cnc-machine-greenLean

 

[jacquesm]

Of course it would be easier to buy a design that already has CNC cutting files, but the planing tug boat I'm interested in is only available from one NA , wouldn't you know it!

snip

The plan is to build the small 23' design as an experiment in alloy construction, then build a bigger 10-12mtr version. My cunning plan was to stretch the smaller boat , with the input of the NA of course, but save the $3-5k they charge just for the digital files.

I just sold my business which was based exactly on what you describe.
(and I bought a small trawler with a small part of the proceeds )

See bateau.com
I developed panels for 25 years. Even with the best software, it takes some experience.
My CNC machine did cost about 20 times what you propose and the software is not cheap either.
To do a good job, check out Rhino 3D and Orca Marine for the design software, Vectric for the CNC programming and Shopbot for a decent entry level CNC machine but seriously, you"ll be better off buying a kit or a used boat.
I designed some small trawlers CNC kits: the TW28.
(Please don't consider this advertisement: I sold the business.)

BTW, I just bought a nice Prairie 29 trawler, in good condition, for half the price of a real CNC machine.

 

[Northern Spy]

I just sold my business which was based exactly on what you describe.

(and I bought a small trawler with a small part of the proceeds )



See bateau.com

I developed panels for 25 years. Even with the best software, it takes some experience.

My CNC machine did cost about 20 times what you propose and the software is not cheap either.

To do a good job, check out Rhino 3D and Orca Marine for the design software, Vectric for the CNC programming and Shopbot for a decent entry level CNC machine but seriously, you"ll be better off buying a kit or a used boat.

I designed some small trawlers CNC kits: the TW28.

(Please don't consider this advertisement: I sold the business.)



BTW, I just bought a nice Prairie 29 trawler, in good condition, for half the price of a real CNC machine.

You do know that there is a guy on this forum building a TW28, I hope. She-Kon.

 

[jacquesm]

No, I didn't. We sold hundreds of plans and I have seen more than 10 completed boats but wasn't aware that one of them was on this forum.
I will look him up with the search tool.

I would love to have TW28 but building cost more than to buy used. On the other hand, if you build, you"ll have a custom boat that you will also know in every detail.
I built a 40 footer and sailed all over the world in her but I'm too old for that now: trawler time . . .