Vandalism, or just people being rude?

[backinblue]

Singing rigging is not bad IMO, but the slapping of halyards is annoying and easily preventable. Those that don't bother preventing that are either lazy or uncaring or both.

 

[Comodave]

Singing rigging is not bad IMO, but the slapping of halyards is annoying and easily preventable. Those that don't bother preventing that are either lazy or uncaring or both.

I have been known to help the lazy, uncaring owner that doesn’t secure their halyards. I tie them securely, with lots of knots, so that may learn not to leave them loose and banging. Nothing that will damage anything, but it will take them some time to get the halyards loose…

 

[Porgy]

I have been known to help the lazy, uncaring owner that doesn’t secure their halyards. I tie them securely, with lots of knots, so that may learn not to leave them loose and banging. Nothing that will damage anything, but it will take them some time to get the halyards loose…

So, because something annoys you or is an inconvenience you feel it is perfectly acceptable to go on someone else’s boat and basically vandalize it? Yes, the boating community sure is great. Don’t like something? Get on their boat and teach them a lesson.

 

[mvweebles]

So, because something annoys you or is an inconvenience you feel it is perfectly acceptable to go on someone else’s boat and basically vandalize it? Yes, the boating community sure is great. Don’t like something? Get on their boat and teach them a lesson.

Vandalism? Interesting perspective. As a past liveaboard in a windy city (San Francisco), I did this a million times. The worst were the old-school wire-rope halyards that would bang loudly and incessently. I personally felt I was performing a neighborly service similar to the many, many boats I adjusted during storms or other dockside events, incuding providing lines to replace ones that had parted.

Frankly, if me or my boat were doing something that was unwittingly disturbing a neighbor, not only would I take zero offense at them correcting the disturbance, I'd be embarrassed. To be 100% candid, I think that's more cruiser-centric than to consider it vandalism.

Peter

 

[Porgy]

Try reading his post. “Lots of knots…will take some time to get the halyards loose”

Doesn’t sound like neighborly helpfulness to me.

 

[Don L]

I have gone and secured people's halyards. Some have dome a few times as they just were not trainable.

Just because they never stay on their boat and try to sleep doesn't mean their boat gets to keep everyone else awake.

I also learned to not tell people I had done as you don't what level of crazy they may be.

 

[OldDan1943]

“Hey captain, let’s see if WE can secure you halyard a little better, to reduce the noise.”

 

[mvweebles]

“Hey captain, let’s see if WE can secure you halyard a little better, to reduce the noise.”

Nice thought. Maybe not universal, but my experience was the biggest offenders rarely used their boats. Could be >6-months before the chance for a conversation presents itself; and never at 2AM when you realize there's a problem.

Bit surprised there is a reaction to halyard police like Comodave and myself....righter of marina ettiquette wrongs. It would be so much easier to solve the problem with a box cutter. Claim of 'vandalism' might apply with that solution (but only maybe...).

Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

If a boat comes into a marina, will you not assist with tying up it?
Stand on the dock and be ready to catch the lines. I think that is called ‘being neighborly’.

 

[OldDan1943]

If the owner is not onboard, talk with the marina personal.

 

[backinblue]

Sorry to start an argument, but IMO being neighborly does not mean boarding another's boat to fix something you don't like. Would you consider it neighborly for someone to come on your property at home to fix something they didn't agree with?

I have done things like adjust a dock line if someone's boat is hitting the dock and in danger of damage, but I wouldn't board someone's boat to fix an annoyance or eyesore. Better to report it to the marina and let them fix it or contact the owner.

 

[Porgy]

halyard police ....righter of marina ettiquette wrongs.

And who made you the Mayor of the dock? Deputized etiquette enforcer? What legal right do you have to go on someone else’s boat simply, and for no other reason, because a sound annoys you?

 

[OldDan1943]

Some rigging ‘sings’ in the wind and nothing can correct it.

 

[mvweebles]

If the owner is not onboard, talk with the marina personal.

Good advice......for the absentee owner who finds his halyards in a thicket. Pretty sure the response from the marina would be "lemme guess, you didn't secure your halyards. What did you expect?"

Some rigging ‘sings’ in the wind and nothing can correct it.

Agreed - but there is also no reason to board that boat as there is nothing that can be done.

And who made you the Mayor of the dock? Deputized etiquette enforcer? What legal right do you have to go on someone else’s boat simply, and for no other reason, because a sound annoys you?

I gotta say, it's attitudes like this that makes me want to stop helping fellow boaters. Won't ever happen, but it sure makes the thought enter my brain.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

And who made you the Mayor of the dock? Deputized etiquette enforcer? What legal right do you have to go on someone else’s boat simply, and for no other reason, because a sound annoys you?

I have to agree. We were at a marina last year as tranisents and a boat next door was playing unusually loud music. We asked nicely if they could lower the volume a little which they did, but not before telling us that they pay a lot of money for their slip and they will do whatever they want. Again, an issue probably better left to the marina management to deal with if they see fit.

 

[Porgy]

You’re not helping other boaters by tying their halyards into “lots of knots.” You’re helping yourself.

Sometimes the steel winch cables clatter on the boom during high winds. I don’t need anyone’s “help” with it.

 

[OldDan1943]

During the hurricane season, one boat sank because the owner was not onboard and ‘everyone’ was afraid to adjust the dock lines.

 

[backinblue]

I gotta say, it's attitudes like this that makes me want to stop helping fellow boaters. Won't ever happen, but it sure makes the thought enter my brain.

Peter

But Peter, what you see as helping, another might find intrusive. Securing a dock line that came loose is helping. Adressing something that simply bothers you is not.

I have a house neighbor who lets their front lawn grow completely wild with flowers and other vegetation. They must like it but to me it looks like a mess. Would I be helping them by going over when they are away and spreading weed killer to fix their lawn?

 

[mvweebles]

I'm not a punitive guy so never did the lots-of-knots things - loosen the halyard, loop outside the spreader, then secure it. 30-seconds. Done. And I'd bet decent money that Comodave said it tongue-in-cheek as he is one of the most helpful contributors on TF.

Y'all want help from the liveaboards when it suits you and head home Sunday afternoon. Even in non-liveaboard marinas, folks always talk about how helpful it is to have a couple sneak-aboards there since they tend to be so conscientious. Well, that was me for many years.

Peer

 

[backinblue]

During the hurricane season, one boat sank because the owner was not inboard and ‘everyone’ was afraid to adjust the dock lines.

Honestly there is some liability if you mess with someone else's dock lines without them knowing. If damage occurs, they could make a case that it's because you "fixed" their lines. I've done it because I observed a boat's bow hitting into the dock, but I get the point of not wanting to "help".

 

[mvweebles]

But Peter, what you see as helping, another might find intrusive. Securing a dock line that came loose is helping. Adressing something that simply bothers you is not.

I have a house neighbor who lets their front lawn grow completely wild with flowers and other vegetation. They must like it but to me it looks like a mess. Would I be helping them by going over when they are away and spreading weed killer to fix their lawn?

Better example. Neighbor goes away on vacation for 2-weeks. Their back door is right next to your bedroom window. They forgot to latch the screen door so all night it swings open then bangs loudly in the breeze. So you go over and latch it shut.

And that's a problem? That's offensive? I should call the police and ask them to do it for me?

Peter

 

[Porgy]

Better example. Neighbor goes away on vacation for 2-weeks. Their back door is right next to your bedroom window. They forgot to latch the screen door so all night it swings open then bangs loudly in the breeze. So you go over and latch it shut.

And that's a problem? That's offensive? I should call the police and ask them to do it for me?

Peter

No. It’s not a better analogy. If the concern is that the banging door will be damaged by high winds, then latching is helpful. I would likely be on at least civil terms with my neighbor and upon their return would tell them what I did and why. Closing the door because it bangs loudly is not helpful to them it’s helpful to you.

The police is hardly analogous to marina mgt. It is the marina’s responsibility to enforce its policies and absent policies, it’s not up to the tenants to make up their own and enforce them.

My wife’s analogy. Don’t like your neighbor’s wind chimes? Just go on the porch and tie them into lots of knots. That’ll teach them.

 

[backinblue]

My wife’s analogy. Don’t like your neighbor’s wind chimes? Just go on the porch and tie them into lots of knots. That’ll teach them.

That's better than my example. It's just the first thing I thought of regarding my neighbors. The point being that what's proper and what's annoying is subjective. Not everyone has the same opinions on things. I have a neighbor with an ugly color front door that annoys me whenever I see it. I wouldn't think of going over to help them by painting it or suggesting they do. The wind chimes is a good example, it probably annoys the heck out of some folks who want peace and quiet when sitting outside. To others, it's music to their ears.

 

[psneeld]

I think there IS a difference in securing halyards (which I have done dozens of times) and "tying lots of knots in them" to "teach a lesson".

While I am all about trying to educate the world on a lot of things (not by me personally all the time)....but realistically....most people who "don't get it" after a simple "hey...how about.......(fill in whatever)" rarely ever "get it".

So, excessive know tying pushes "dock etiquette" in my book as does cutting the halyards and letting them fall to the deck (which I have seen done by people fed up with the "never get's it crowd".

 

[Old Sea Dog]

The path to "the pursuit of happiness" is frought with all manner of obstacles.

 

[rslifkin]

If a boat has halyards banging loudly and the owner isn't around (especially if they haven't been around for a while), I'd be inclined to donate a bungee cord or 2 to the cause. Bungee the halyards to the shrouds to keep them away from the mast without risk of chafe from the spreaders, etc.

 

[mvweebles]

I think there IS a difference in securing halyards (which I have done dozens of times) and "tying lots of knots in them" to "teach a lesson".

While I am all about trying to educate the world on a lot of things (not by me personally all the time)....but realistically....most people who "don't get it" after a simple "hey...how about.......(fill in whatever)" rarely ever "get it".

So, excessive know tying pushes "dock etiquette" in my book as does cutting the halyards and letting them fall to the deck (which I have seen done by people fed up with the "never get's it crowd".

I agree - tying knots is over the line, as tempting as it can be. I've never done it, and never seen it done but I don't pay attention that closely.

I assume that loose halyards are done not out of special enjoyment (such as wind chimes), but out of ignorance or memory lapse. I also assume that most boaters don't want to be a nuisance and would therefore be embarrassed to know their action/inaction caused a fellow boater any level of discomfort. Apparently I'm wrong.

I won't touch your boat. Ever.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

I agree that banging halyards are most likely because the owner either doesn't realize it's a problem or he doesn't realize there is a simple fix for it. Still, taking it upon yourself to board another boat just because something disturbs you is a little much IMO. I'd still try to address it with the owner or marina, but I'd think twice about tampering with someone else's property.

 

[Porgy]

I’ll touch a boat if there is imminent risk of damage. I did so recently when an unattended boat’s spring parted in a gale after hours. I re-tied it with the good remaining end. Then I told marina mgt. what I had done and why and to please inform the owners. However, I did not do so because I would be annoyed with the sound of the outboard reducing the dock to splinters.

As pointed out, sound is subjective and some people truly are not affected by halyards just as some people are ready to scream from wind chimes. I’ll say this one more time, what gives someone a legal right to board a boat and mess with it simply because they don’t like a sound it is making. Not because you’re the self-appointed for life Mayor of Etiquetteville but, a legal right to do so.

 

[mvweebles]

...... I’ll say this one more time, what gives someone a legal right to board a boat and mess with it simply because they don’t like a sound it is making. Not because you’re the self-appointed for life Mayor of Etiquetteville but, a legal right to do so.

And this (quick jump to legal) is one of things wrong with America. It has a chilling effect on just using simple solutions and common sense to solve problems. Not talking about busting-open a padlocked companioway. Just stepping aboard and re-routing halyards. And out pops the lawyers. What gives a kid who's kicked his soccor ball onto a lawn the right to trespass? Correct answer is it's the wrong question.

Porgy, I have to assume you have not spent much time in windy marinas with a plethorae of sailboats. There is nothing charming or subjective about the racket. We're not talking the gently thump-thump against a wooden mast. More like a mini-sledge in an empty clothes dryer.

Peter