Vandalism, or just people being rude?

[psneeld]

I always used the 90% rule.

If I think I could stand on a street corner and convince 90% of strangers I was doing the right thing (within reason of course...not as extreme as killing a bad person)...I probably continue my course of action.

It worked for me when I felt I had to go against the grain when working in the USCG...which is about as rule/law minding as it gets.... If you are mostly successful at it, it's not a bad way to live.

In every marina I have lived/stayed at...the 90% rule usually applied to clanging halyards as most everyone else bitched but wouldn't do anything about it. When I did, I was usually thanked.

 

[Porgy]

Porgy, I have to assume you have not spent much time in windy marina with a plethora of sailboats.

And, you would be totally, unequivocally wrong. You couldn’t be more incorrect with your assumption, incredulously so. Just because I don’t agree with a position doesn’t mean I’m not familiar with the concern or that I must not have spent much time in a marina.

I have a larger concern with people who, subjectively offended by something, feel they have a god-given right take it upon themselves to board someone’s boat to correct the offending annoyance.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Back in the day......
Now, not so much.
Grew up sailing. Lived on my sailboat next to the Spa Creek Bridge in Annapolis. Knew going in that there would be the noise of tires going across the grates of the bridge. Was not a problem. But if it was, do I go up and close the gates to traffic?
Unfortunately in this day and age there is no right answer. More often than not people offer a retaliatory strike than an olive branch.

 

[hmason]

A tempest in a teapot to my thinking. Now here's a real travesty. Years ago we had a new puppy onboard our 36' GB. The wife and I left the boat for about an hour. The puppy began crying and barking. It must have disturbed another boater that was in the midst of a loud drunken party. He forced a saloon window open on my boat, took a dock hose and soaked the poor little dog and flooded the saloon. When I got back to the boat we notified the marina management. At the time they owned 32 marinas locally on the Long Island Sound. They banned that boater for life and forced them to leave immediately.

I don't think tying back a halyard is a grievous offense.

 

[Blissboat]

A tempest in a teapot to my thinking . . . I don't think tying back a halyard is a grievous offense.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Halyards or dogs, the problem is inconsiderate or ignorant people.

A few years ago in Friday Harbor we heard a dog baking, really carrying on. After I'd had enough I went to see what the problem was. It was a sailboat with a steering pedestal. The dog on a leash had wrapped itself around the pedestal until it could not move. Another boater who got there steps before me boarded the boat and untangled the dog. I went back to my boat and sometime later heard sharp words between the rescuer and the dog's owners. I don't know what was said but I am sure the dog's owners deserved the 'comments'.

This is not the only barking dog in a marina story I have, just the worst for the dog. Please, if you cruise with your dog(s), don't leave them unattended unless you are 100% certain they can handle it. It's not myself and the other boaters I'm concerned about, it's the dog.

Fellow responsible dog owners please do not take offense. We cruise with our dog and as relaxed and easy going a Black Lab as he is we never leave him on the boat alone for more than the few minutes it takes to tie up and connect power.

If it means we can't to the restaurant or shop we want to go to, too bad for us, our dog comes before our entertainment.

A tempest in a teapot to my thinking. Now here's a real travesty. Years ago we had a new puppy onboard our 36' GB. The wife and I left the boat for about an hour. The puppy began crying and barking. It must have disturbed another boater that was in the midst of a loud drunken party. He forced a saloon window open on my boat, took a dock hose and soaked the poor little dog and flooded the saloon. When I got back to the boat we notified the marina management. At the time they owned 32 marinas locally on the Long Island Sound. They banned that boater for life and forced them to leave immediately.

I don't think tying back a halyard is a grievous offense.

 

[Don L]

Better example. Neighbor goes away on vacation for 2-weeks. Their back door is right next to your bedroom window. They forgot to latch the screen door so all night it swings open then bangs loudly in the breeze. So you go over and latch it shut.

And that's a problem? That's offensive? I should call the police and ask them to do it for me?

Peter

Thats the comparison I was going to make. You go close it so it isn't banging.

Now if they do it everytime they leave the house maybe after a while some duct tape is involved.

 

[Comodave]

I have been known to help the lazy, uncaring owner that doesn’t secure their halyards. I tie them securely, with lots of knots, so that may learn not to leave them loose and banging. Nothing that will damage anything, but it will take them some time to get the halyards loose…

I posted this at 3:50 this morning. I woke up to find out that I was at best pond scum and at worst a serial killer…. I guess I should have been more explicit when I posted this but it was late and I was on the way to bed. The marina where our boat was slipped had in the lease agreement that all halyards must be tied off. This one individual would not tie his off for whatever reason. Several people had asked him to tie them off. The marina had told him to do it. But he just wouldn’t tie them off. So in speaking to the marina manager about it he said next time he doesn’t tie them off they you should tie the sh*t out of them. So I did. I didn’t mean to get everyone upset but I guess I should have told the entire story.

Hopefully the moderators will let my explanation stand. Sorry.

 

[slowgoesit]

This thread was started after another thread went off the rails with Off-topic posts. The off topic posts were moved over to this brand new thread. Please try and stay on topic in this and other threads.


Trawler Forum Site Team

 

[psneeld]

I woukd have told the marina manager to go do the dirty deed if it was a well known and enforced (but obviously not) rule.

Its easy to tell people to do things that may cause issues rather than doing them yourself or actually doing one's job.

The marina manager would seem to be no better than the guilty party.

 

[Simi 60]

What's a marina?

 

[Comodave]

The manager was a good friend of mine so I didn’t have any problem with his telling me to take care of it. And the guy finally got the message and started taking care of it. So it worked out well in the end.

 

[OldDan1943]

I suspect the Dock Master has a contact phone number for all the owners.
Call the owner and ask permission to get on his boat and correct the situation. If he agrees you are home free. If the owner says NO, then there much you can do other than complain to the marina owner.

 

[Comodave]

In this case he had already been told by the manager several times to take care of it and he ignored the manager. So the manager wanted to get his attention so we did and as I said above it fixed the problem.

 

[Don L]

you can see why I said that when I have gone and secured boats halyard I don' tell anyone.

People and their "rights" just go crazy.

 

[backinblue]

Unless my boat is in some sort of peril, I would not want anyone boarding it in my absence to fix something they didn't like. There was a similar discussion a few months back about a boat being untidy with bags of garbage visible. Whether a person likes something or not, does not give them the right to take it upon themselves to correct it. If a boat is in danger or a pet is in distress (on a boat or locked in hot car) is an entirely different conversation. Think about your dirt home and for what reasons you would want someone to come onto your property and do something to fix an issue they don't like. People have been shot and killed recently just for ringing a doorbell. I'm not saying that's right by any means, but the times they are a changing. I'd think twice about messing around on someone else's boat because something about it was bothering me.

 

[backinblue]

The manager was a good friend of mine so I didn’t have any problem with his telling me to take care of it. And the guy finally got the message and started taking care of it. So it worked out well in the end.

Sorry Dave but that sounds like a cop out from the marina manager, friend or not. Telling you to do something that he didn't want to enforce is not the right approach. Even if you did want to fix the problem, it's not up to you to enforce the rules. You are also putting yourself at risk if the owner knew what you did. Does that then give him the right to retailiate and do something to your boat? Better solution would be the marina fines him $50 for every night his halyards are not properly secured. I bet that would fix it as well.

 

[psneeld]

Sorry Dave but that sounds like a cop out from the marina manager, friend or not. Telling you to do something that he didn't want to enforce is not the right approach. Even if you did want to fix the problem, it's not up to you to enforce the rules. You are also putting yourself at risk if the owner knew what you did. Does that then give him the right to retailiate and do something to your boat? Better solution would be the marina fines him $50 for every night his halyards are not properly secured. I bet that would fix it as well.

I was good with the manager saying go fix it, but "teaching a lesson"?

That is done through leadership. It may have fixed the problem but I would have lost a lot of respect for the manager....it just ain't my style....

 

[MYTraveler]

Slapping halyards are more than an inconvenience, they can be a significant nuisance. But, IMO, that doesn't justify self help. Marinas will usually take care of the problem (and a tip to the worker is great reinforcement). Occasionally, I have commented to owners that their halyards were slapping last time it was windy, and I can't remember anyone not being apologetic. And most offer that I should feel free to come aboard and fix it if it ever happens again. I am not sure what I would do if someone told me to just suck it up. But I would probably invite them to reconsider whether that is the type of relationship they want to have with me, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Better example. Neighbor goes away on vacation for 2-weeks. Their back door is right next to your bedroom window. They forgot to latch the screen door so all night it swings open then bangs loudly in the breeze. So you go over and latch it shut.

And that's a problem? That's offensive? I should call the police and ask them to do it for me?

Peter

Nah, that's cool.

It's not like you screwed it down with a dozen drywall screws...

 

[Hippocampus]

You properly secure your halyards so they don’t chafe or wear through the paint or ionization on a mast. The absence of clanging is pleasant but not the only reason. Think such behavior occurs sometimes from ignorance of how to keep a proper yacht. Sometimes due to evolving throw away culture where taking the extra step to preserve things isn’t in people’s minds. Sometimes from egocentricity. Unfortunately you rarely know which is involved. On occasion you get a clue as to which one it is by looking at the general condition of the boat. It’s rare to see clanging halyards on a Bristol condition boat of good pedigree but rather more common with a low flier.

On one hand you are doing both yourself and the offending boat a service. On the other you can be placing yourself at risk given the egocentric jerks in the world. Need to decide on a case by case basis.

Today it was windy (steady 20s with gusts to 30s). A 42’ sailboat tried to leave fighting both current and wind at low tide. Wife fell off the swim platform while holding a fender. Husband got himself trapped between land and a line of docked boats. He ran aground. Then while freeing himself current and wind drove him into the concrete walkway out to the dock. Wife saw the beginning of this and alerted me. We both ran out and helped as well as instructed the flustered skipper how to extradite himself without further injury to himself or other boats. Pushed off, placed fenders to minimize damage. Did what we could. It was raining and we ran out without foulies before our coffee.
Of course first order of business was for wife to climb back on the boat. He was able to do it although with some gelcoat damage from the concrete.
Skipper made a bad decision. Put his wife at risk and his and other boats. My wife and I helped. No thoughts of our liability. No thoughts or expressions of his fault. We are all with faults. We need to help each other even when inconvenient.

Been struck how different it is cruising in the US versus when the cruising community are all foreigners. Maybe it’s because although the cruisers are from different countries, on boats of widely different sizes and expense there’s a us and them mentality. You just help out a fellow cruiser. Like Peter I’ve dinghied over to help a newbie couple on a charter boat anchor, or secured a roller furler that was unrolling in strong wind or so many other occasions. Know my friends do the same. This thread makes me think the Good Samaritan has started to move out of the US. Makes me sad posters are worrying about liability, or feel punitive or scared to help. Understand these sentiments are not without basis. Just makes me sad wife and I routinely walk by people in their cockpits to catch lines for boats coming in. Makes me even sadder that the recipient of that minor assistance are so thankful as apparently now it can’t be taken for granted you would do that.

 

[Peter B]

You’re not helping other boaters by tying their halyards into “lots of knots.” You’re helping yourself.

Sometimes the steel winch cables clatter on the boom during high winds. I don’t need anyone’s “help” with it.

While I tend to agree with you that someone attempting to damp down noise by doing anything 'negative' to make a point, could well be misconstrued, your tone in expressing your thoughts could do with a wee bit of work as well.

What I suggest re slapping halyards, having owned several sail boats as well, is to just let out some slack, and then flip the offending halyard out over the end of the spreader (cross-tree) then tension the halyard again. It is halyards tensioned straight down next to the mast that cause the issue.

Works a charm, never does any damage, easy to release for the owner when they next return, and the gentle suggestion as to the issue and it's solution is made and solved all at the same time.

 

[CharlieO.]

Wow, what a topic.

Referring to Comodaves experience.... If it was in the rules to tie off halyards, and this person was a blatant and continuous offender, the marina should be tying off the halyards and sending the labor bill to the boat owner every time.

I'm not bothered that you tied them off.

We leave our phone numbers in the window so anyone can call us as needed if our boat needs attention.

 

[O C Diver]

What's a marina?

This is why I prefer to anchor out or stay on transient docks. Your pretty much assured the owners are onboard and don't want to hear the noise either.

Ted

 

[Cargile]

So, because something annoys you or is an inconvenience you feel it is perfectly acceptable to go on someone else’s boat and basically vandalize it? Yes, the boating community sure is great. Don’t like something? Get on their boat and teach them a lesson.

I don't believe Comodave wrote about boarding and conducting body cavity searches. I read more on the order of tightening lines as a courtesy to all.

 

[psneeld]

I don't believe Comodave wrote about boarding and conducting body cavity searches. I read more on the order of tightening lines as a courtesy to all.

It was also to teach a lesson as stated, so it was more than just a normal halyard tightening and "courtesy" unless making the "courtesy" was to get the guy to stop leaving his halyards slap by making it a "teaching moment".

 

[hollywood8118]

I have tied off halyards on boats in the past, will probably do it in the future. I didn't do it in a spiteful way, just to make life more bearable to those within earshot. We had a boat next to us that if the halyards were loose it made the most annoying ringing while they beat the living crap out of their mast sound.
Tied back the halyards a few time until the owner finally got it and from then on did it when putting the boat away.
People often just ignore something that is causing financial harm to property or physical harm to others out of worry of being sued.

I have helped a handful of boaters that were in obvious peril and never though twice about being sued, luckily I have not needed the same help my self but I hope if I did somebody out there would have the helping attitude too.
Hollywood

 

[kthoennes]

If my boat is sinking -- bilge pump running 24/7 -- I'd sure appreciate a call, or someone going on board to check it out. Or the halyard equivalent for power boats, if a snap came loose and my canopy is slapping in the wind, marking up the hull, gradually pulling off more snaps and then ripping the canvas or wrecking zippers -- feel free to snap that loose snap back on as you're walking by.

 

[Northern Spy]

Growing up sailing, it was common courtesy to ensure the halyards didn't slap the mast before leaving the boat. I was taught that.

I've night-bungeed a few halyards to shrouds in the past. I keep a couple in a locker for that reason. It's usually orphaned boats, with non-present owners, so they don't even recognize their faux pas. I'd tell them if I ever actually saw them.

I recently replaced a bungee on a boat near me, as the one I had put on a couple of years ago had sun rotted and fallen to the deck.

 

[psneeld]

Growing up sailing, it was common courtesy to ensure the halyards didn't slap the mast before leaving the boat. I was taught that.

I've night-bungeed a few halyards to shrouds in the past. I keep a couple in a locker for that reason. It's usually orphaned boats, with non-present owners, so they don't even recognize their faux pas. I'd tell them if I ever actually saw them.

I recently replaced a bungee on a boat near me, as the one I had put on a couple of years ago had sun rotted and fallen to the deck.

Would you PLEASE start buying better bungees that last longer!.....