2nd start of fire in electrical equipment, what are your experiences ?

[Mambo42]

Where did I admit that I know nothing about Victron? I have no strong opinions or vested interests in anything Victron. You don't need to own or use a product to be able to see when someone is trashing the product for no reason other than a self serving one. It burnt up, can't be my fault, must be junk.

Same thing on the wire, Mambo42 repeatedly states that you can't get 5mm2 marine grade wire in Greece without buying a large roll holding way more than he needed.
Then when confronted with the fact that a large chandlery (among others) lists 10 gauge Ancor tinned marine wire (which by the way they call 5 mm2, 10 gauge is actually 5.26 mm2, so close enough) in multiple forms and colors on their website, that you buy in any length you want, the response changes to that they all lie all the time, none of the 10 stores has any stock ever and if you order it and pay for it first, after you wait multiple times the original delivery period, they steal your money. Really?

Do you actually think that the large chandlery is in the business of ripping it's customers? What a business model. How long do you think they will last? According to their website they have been a chandlery for 30 years. Maybe they are lying there as well or perhaps someone else is?

Call me a cynic if you want, but can't you see that the constant narrative is that everybody is wrong but Mambo42? How can that be?

Just for your info, the wire you found would not meet the standards of Victron, so basically you have still found an incorrect cable.
On top of that, the cable is not fire retardant and that was for me an absolute must. You basically suggest that I should accept a lesser, more dangerous quality, because that is the only cable that fits..............if it can be sourced ?
In how many turns and twists do you want to get yourself before you admit that the design could (and should) have been better.
Just google for fires Victron and the world will open up for you. Victron stated that I was an exception, but in reality it happens quite a lot. Not everyone publishes it on Youtube or on a Forum, so in reality the numbers are even higher.
But according to you it is the mistake of every single person and there is nothing Victron can do to prevent it ?

 

[rslifkin]

With finely stranded wire I haven't had issues by not using a ferrule on the connections. So you could use a 6 mm2 cable, it just needs to be finely stranded and inserted bare. And I'd ignore the torque specs and tighten it as much as possible without stripping the screw in the terminal block.

 

[Mambo42]

These terminal blocks appear to be standard Phoenix Contact parts.

https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus/640/1704936.pdf

I've specified these terminal blocks many times on our PCB's. They are rated for bare wire or ferrules per the spec sheet. We always use ferrules for assembly for reasons I stated earlier in the thread. I've spent the last 35+ years building all sorts of medical, lab and consumer devices as well as automation. It's standard and professional practice to use ferrules when assembling machines.

My advice is to trim down the existing wires to the point where a proper 4-sided ferrule crimp can fit within the terminal block and move on. This approach will not loosen over time.

You all are way overthinking this....

That is sort of what they used, however the block in the 100 / 30 is not the same as the block in the 100 / 15. The last one is smaller and won't accept anything over 5 mm2 (plus ferrule).

 

[twistedtree]

Well, you gotta admit, it's extremely difficult to do it the way they say it needs to be done - they have a built in 'gotcha' for just about anything, no?

@slowgoesit (Scot) - thanks for the link on the ferrule terminal connectors. Will add to my kit. I will note that the Victron installation manual I read didnt mention these, only that fine-stranded wire should be used. I have to wonder if those terminal lugs are designed for ferrules.....or if that would be another 'gotcha' from Victron if there was an issue.

I have to say, I do wonder if something else was the root issue for OP. I've used these types of terminal lugs on all sorts of equipment for years and while it can be challenging to get the conductor in (and sometimes a stray strand wants to jump the fence), they seem to hold well once you get them tightened - even in residential applications where solid Romex is being used (in a way, sort of emulates a ferrule connector I suppose).

@twistedtree and @ksanders - I cannot express the respect I have for your electrical skills. I do not take them lightly, but Victron's sales strategy is to sell to whomever has a credit card. Their forum is full of issues on wire sizing - you'd think they'd "read the room" a bit. At least Schneider provides actional guidance on sizing.

Good discussion. I still think Victron is only the best because there is no one else. They could use some whoop-ass in the market. Someday.....

Peter

I don't mean to overly defend Victron. I think they have a lot of product design issues, and when I have brought them up I get the same response as the OP. There is very much a "we are right and you are wrong" mentality with them. This particular product surely would benefit from accepting a wider range of wire sizes and terminations. So Victron gets that lump fair and square.

That said, Victron does clearly states, with pictures to accompany it, that you MUST use fine stranded wire, and they even explain that without it you don't get sufficient contact area between the wire and terminal cage, and that the terminal WILL overheat. This lump clearly belongs to the OP and/or his installer. They chose to install anyway with incorrect materials and experienced exactly what Victron said would happen, yet are refusing to accept owneship and instead want to dump it all on Victron.

There are plently of lumps to hand out here, but let's hand them out where they belong.

As for MC4 connectors and cable types, you would need to transition wires types, if required, ask Kevin described early on. Or you could get Victron's MPPT model that has MC4 connectors that you can plug the panels directly into.

 

[twistedtree]

... You basically suggest that I should accept a lesser, more dangerous quality, because that is the only cable that fits..............if it can be sourced ?

Isn't this precisely what you did by not using fine stranded wire?

 

[mvweebles]

As for MC4 connectors and cable types, you would need to transition wires types, if required, ask Kevin described early on. Or you could get Victron's MPPT model that has MC4 connectors that you can plug the panels directly into.

I had no idea they made MPPTs with MC4 connectors. That would make sense.....I think.

One of my big pet peeves with marine suppliers is they design stuff to be serviced on a well-lit workbench in a climate-controlled lab-like shop with a full compliment of tools hanging neatly on the wall and a tightly curated inventory of parts. Their designers have seemingly never done field installations in hot, cramped marine equipment spaces. They'd learn a bunch if they sent a few techs out shoulder-surfing decent electrical installation engineers doing real-world installs.

Folks like yourself, @ksanders, @Bmarler, and others would know better. Bit it just seems there is a amperage limit to these types of clamp terminal connection, after which there should be something with a ring-terminal that you can really womp on - 8mm or something similar. Instead, the workaround is to buy yet another component - a terminal strip - and mount it nearby with jumpers.

Doesn't anyone else get tired of the endless clutter of blue boxes and reams of wires, cables, and various communication cables? And Bluetooth that isn't exactly range-defying? Just seems like the solution is always add another box. Or some sort of workaround to add-on another box and integrate it into the overall Victron network.

Someday - hopefully soon - someone will "Apple-fy" this stuff for RV/Marine applications. It won't be Victron who does it.

Good discussion - I learned a bunch. Many thanks to all.

Peter

 

[Mambo42]

Isn't this precisely what you did by not using fine stranded wire?

According to Victron I did when I choose the 6 mm2 wire when the 5 mm2 cable could not be delivered.

For me the first and foremost importancy was a fire retardant cable. Those are the cables that simply will not catch fire and cannot burn, no matter what the temperature is. Since all of my cables run through the ER, where it gets extremely hot in the summertime, which results in hardening out of normal standard cables, making them brittle and subsequently falling apart (read: that was the reason for the rewire in the first place).

Again, a 5mm2 cable is non standard in Europe and is almost impossible to find in any shape or form. If you find one the chances are it is not a multi strand, but a normal cable, not suitable for maritime use and definitely not fire retardant.

So if I have to get a 6 mm2 cable anyway, because the 5 mm2 cable cannot be supplied, then I want to have a fire retardant cable, since that was one of my requirements.

For some reason it seems to be impossible, for some people, to accept that in Europe we don't have US spec cables and that they are incredibly difficult to source. It completely bewilders me why Victron decided to go for US specs in Europe, it just does not make sense.
However, even if you cannot find the exact specs Victron demands..............it should not automatically end up in a fire. That logic is beyond ridiculous to me.

 

[psneeld]

"Since all of my cables run through the ER, where it gets extremely hot in the summertime, which results in hardening out of normal standard cables, making them brittle and subsequently falling apart (read: that was the reason for the rewire in the first place)."...unless of course were are talking 30+ year old cables that were made with 30+ year old tech.

That is a new one on me...of course not sure what "normal standard cables" are.....

As for every melted electrical component resulting in a fire.... that too is way beyond my experience, even as a trained accident investigator. Not a good thing to happen, but just not realistic to say every melted connection results in a fire. "However, even if you cannot find the exact specs Victron demands..............it should not automatically end up in a fire."

I get that many off the shelf components could be engineered better, but some of the comments in this thread is just too over the top for my experiences.

 

[Mambo42]

I don't mean to overly defend Victron. I think they have a lot of product design issues, and when I have brought them up I get the same response as the OP. There is very much a "we are right and you are wrong" mentality with them. This particular product surely would benefit from accepting a wider range of wire sizes and terminations. So Victron gets that lump fair and square.

That said, Victron does clearly states, with pictures to accompany it, that you MUST use fine stranded wire, and they even explain that without it you don't get sufficient contact area between the wire and terminal cage, and that the terminal WILL overheat. This lump clearly belongs to the OP and/or his installer. They chose to install anyway with incorrect materials and experienced exactly what Victron said would happen, yet are refusing to accept owneship and instead want to dump it all on Victron.

There are plently of lumps to hand out here, but let's hand them out where they belong.

As for MC4 connectors and cable types, you would need to transition wires types, if required, ask Kevin described early on. Or you could get Victron's MPPT model that has MC4 connectors that you can plug the panels directly into.

Victron clearly states that a fire may erupt ? And that is a good excuse that your boat can go up in flames if you cannot find the exact spec cable ? That sounds beyond ridiculous to me.
Imagine that you buy a car and the dealer says: 'if you don't buy Shell super plus (or whatever) then your car can go up in flames'. Would that be acceptable ? I think not.

In a way I could understand the position of Victron if there would not be any solution to this situation, however the solution is extremely simple. For the 100 / 15, just use the block for the 100 / 30, problem solved.
If you really want to get safe you go for a bolt and nut connection instead of this connection block.

The amount of fires that you can find via google is shocking. Victron gave me the impression I am a 1 in a million case, but turns out fires are pretty normal.

The problem is not that there are not enough strands in the cable, the problem is that the screw in the connection block loosens up, thereby not enough cable makes contact, resistance rises and thereby temperature, up to the moment things start to burn.
If the screw would not come loose not a single cable would burn. My cables functioned fine for over a year as long as I kept those screws tight under any condition. Only when that screw comes loose an instant fire hazard starts. With many people that has resulted in fires and yet Victron wants to claim it is perfectly normal.
In my book, coming from a background in aviation as a pilot..............it is not normal. This standard would never ever pass in the aviation business. People would ask if you had become completely mad if you would try to sell this logic to them.

 

[psneeld]

I would love to see ALL the articles discussing Victron MPPT fires.

I have Googled the topic several times and have seen a few...and mostly melted terminals like the one posted here. Fires?....melted terminals are 2 different animals.

The big thing I noticed in my searches.... is they are few and random...no large source of multiple incidents starting a class action suit or similar.

 

[Mambo42]

"Since all of my cables run through the ER, where it gets extremely hot in the summertime, which results in hardening out of normal standard cables, making them brittle and subsequently falling apart (read: that was the reason for the rewire in the first place)."...unless of course were are talking 30+ year old cables that were made with 30+ year old tech.

That is a new one on me...of course not sure what "normal standard cables" are.....

As for every melted electrical component resulting in a fire.... that too is way beyond my experience, even as a trained accident investigator.

I get that many off the shelf components could be engineered better, but some of the comments in this thread is just too over the top for my experiences.

The whole reason for the rewire was that I had to exchange my engines. When mechanics were disconnecting all the cables, clearing out the ceiling of the ER (in order to open it up), a lot of cables just simply crumbled. Some of them were old cables, but some of them had been installed (by the former owner) just years ago. I even had a spare battery cable that was neatly rolled up in the ER for use in case of an emergency. Also that cable simply crumbled, although it looked to be in great condition from a distance.

That was a real shocker to see, I can tell you that. The cables were routed in cable mounts, so neatly placed out of view, but all of that had to be removed to get the engines out. And that was the moment I found out that the insulating material of many cables had just dried out.
I recognized the situation since this is quite standard in the Caribbean, where we live in high temperatures year round.

As I stated, basically all of my cables run through the ER and although I have installed high volume ventilators to get the hot air out, it still gets around 40 - 50 degrees Celsius in July / Aug in the ER. And then I have two industrial size ventilators moving 9000 cubic meters of air per hour !
I decided to go for safety and get cables that would not dry out, would be resistant against corrosion due to salt air and would be fire retardant in case of a fire. I did not want the cables to transport the fire in case something went wrong.

That cable was not available in 5 mm2, but even a normal solar panel cable of 5 mm2 (non maritime) could not be delivered. The standard in Europe is 2.5 mm2, 4 mm2, 6 mm2, 8 mm2, 10 mm2 etc. The odd numbers are considered non standard. If you happen to be in a location where they use a lot of the non standard cable you may be able to find it. But in a country like Greece, Croatia, even Turkey, where this equipment is sparcely used, these cables are simply not used, it will be a special order and nobody can tell how long that will take.

As for the official installers, trained by Victron. That all sounds extremely nice, however Victron is not sold a lot in these countries and the few installers hardly have any work, so whatever they learned in a 3 day course is forgotten after 6 months to 1 year doing no installations. Keeping up to speed with new developments ? Forget about it. And then we have the issue of language. The courses are given in Dutch or English and the language skills of the workers is not the best in the world.
E.g. the company that installed my batteries, Paleros Yacht Service in Lefkas, has 1 guy who has been to the course. He teaches all the others, but when we were there he had to go to Italy for an installation on a superyacht, since the yard in Italy could not find a qualified installer in the whole of Italy for the job at hand.

So Victron claiming that it should have been installed by a up to date qualified electrician is a bit of a joke. They know they hardly sell anything in these countries and they know they only have 2 or 3 persons in the whole area who are up to speed.
The company that I hired does Victron, Mastervolt and some other brands, they had their training and in the Western part of Greece they are basically the only ones you can go to. You will have to make an appointment about 1 year in advance, that is how busy they are.
We have a saying in this part of the world: if you find a company with enough time.........walk away, they are no good. If they would be good they would have no time for you.

I have had a company in Rhodes, recommended by Victron, look at my batteries, distributors, BMS etc and they were looking like they saw water burning. I could see in their eyes that was the first time they ever saw those items. One of them actually started googling to find out what it was. That company was recommended by Victron. Obviously I did not let them touch anything.

 

[psneeld]

I agree that you were/are in a tough situation with materials supply, maybe not so great installers and everything else...

But they are just YOUR problems from what I see...they are not widespread issues that everyone needs to panic over. However, I do agree most of the info in the thread is good enough to remind us all of using good and proper equipment.... plus hire the best that we can reasonably find, then "trust but verify".

Most of us at one point "settle for less" to get on the road, back in the water or enjoy a hastily installed thingy at the moment...but there is always a price....like tightening things regularly or a secondary fix like Locktite/extra support/whatever it takes to keep things working and safe.

If you think "professional manufacture and install" is common or should be...just look at Boeing Aircraft or the new recall on airbags in the works.

Probably why many of us here do our own work or do without.

 

[Mambo42]

I would love to see ALL the articles discussing Victron MPPT fires.

I have Googled the topic several times and have seen a few...and mostly melted terminals like the one posted here. Fires?....melted terminals are 2 different animals.

The big thing I noticed in my searches.... is they are few and random...no large source of multiple incidents starting a class action suit or similar.

If you read most of those cases you will find the same situation repeating itself. The users smelled burning or melting terminals, ran to the terminals and ripped out all of the wires, thus stopping to the starting fire.

Last year we were about 30 - 35 nm off shore, rough sea, when I went down from the Fly bridge to make some coffee. That is when I heard the smoke alarm going off. It took me a while to realize what was going on, I jumped into the lazarette, first thought it came from the ER, so we shut down the engines. Then I realized it was not in the ER, so I shut down all electrical power and then found the culprit, pulled out the wires involved, thus stopping further development of the fire. The lazarette was already in smoke, the board behind the MPPT controller was blackened, i.o.w. was about to go up in flames.

This time I was sitting in the salon, again smelled the burning smell and knew instantly what was going on. Jumped again in the lazarette, found the melting terminal, smoke started to come out and again pulled the wires out.
If I would not have heard the smoke alarm last year or if we would not have been onboard this year the boat would have gone up in flames. It was mid day, lots of sun, the panels would keep supplying the amps and they would not stop. There is no temperature alarm in the MPPT controller that switches the controller off, the 20 A fuse did not blow, so the condition would have continued.

And that is what i read in all the fire / melting stories on Google. Every single one of them the operator managed to stop it in time. How many did end up in a fire and were never identified as having started there.........I have no clue, but am pretty sure it is more than 1.
Problem with fires is that it is extremely difficult to find out afterwards what has happened. I know CSI is popular and they can find anything, but in many countries in Europe they would not be able to find the match that lighted the fire, even if it was lying right in front of them.
On top of that, solar panels in the North of Europe don't produce that many amps. You will be lucky if you have 20 to 30 % of max Wp. In the South of Europe however we have clear blue skies, so the panels regularly produce 70 to 80 % of max Wp and that means a lot of amps. Those amps create the heat in the connection block while in Northern Europe the condition of the cables may be the same, but the amps are much lower, thus not resulting in a melting of beginning fire.

 

[Mambo42]

I agree that you were/are in a tough situation with materials supply, maybe not so great installers and everything else...

But they are just YOUR problems from what I see...they are not widespread issues that everyone needs to panic over. However, I do agree most of the info in the thread is good enough to remind us all of using good and proper equipment.... plus hire the best that we can reasonably find, then "trust but verify".

Most of us at one point "settle for less" to get on the road, back in the water or enjoy a hastily installed thingy at the moment...but there is always a price....like tightening things regularly or a secondary fix like Locktite/extra support/whatever it takes to keep things working and safe.

I would not have a problem if Victron, or their distributor, would have told me: listen, our equipment is extremely sensitive, make one wrong move and you can possibly have a fire onboard..............trust me, I would have walked away from Victron. Totally unacceptable to me.

If Victron cannot keep the standards up with their installers then all of a sudden I am the one to blame when the installation does not go according to the 500 pages of manuals Victron produces ? Sorry, that does not fly with me.
When Victron designs a piece of equipment one of the checks should be that all the required installation material is also for sale in the countries where you want to sell the equipment.
And if your equipment is so sensitive, where one wrong item can cause horrendous consequences you, as a producer, should ask yourself if you should sell your equipment in DIY shops, to chandlers etc. Perhaps you should simply say: 'our equipment requires professional installation and only they can sell this, plus install this'. Checking whether that installer is capable becomes the problem of Victron, not the end user.

However, the whole discussion about wrong wires, ferrules etc to me is completely idiotic. If I were in charge of the design or development bureau of Victron and I would have read about the many melted connection blocks I would walk over to the guys who designed it and say: 'fix the damn problem..........today'. And then it is problem solved, no more exact specs for cables required, no more problems with cables that don't fit or that cannot be supplied.
The only thing you need for that is a will to do the right thing and that will is not present at this moment. That is my conclusion after talking to Victron.

 

[psneeld]

You do know solar panels are more efficient in cooler temps and angle of the panel makes up for the angle of overhead sun?

I have had panels on a crisp, cold evening with arctic air facing the setting sun and had them at max output.

You really need to just stop with the discussion of less than ideal designed connections...we all will probably agree on that...pretty much all of your other arguments don't matter to many of us or are just not supporting your issue.

Continue to tilt at windmills if you must......

 

[luna]

Just for your info, the wire you found would not meet the standards of Victron, so basically you have still found an incorrect cable.
On top of that, the cable is not fire retardant and that was for me an absolute must. You basically suggest that I should accept a lesser, more dangerous quality, because that is the only cable that fits..............if it can be sourced ?
In how many turns and twists do you want to get yourself before you admit that the design could (and should) have been better.
Just google for fires Victron and the world will open up for you. Victron stated that I was an exception, but in reality it happens quite a lot. Not everyone publishes it on Youtube or on a Forum, so in reality the numbers are even higher.
But according to you it is the mistake of every single person and there is nothing Victron can do to prevent it ?

Ok, I'll bite, one more time.

Please define exactly the Victron standards that the wire that I found does not meet and how do you know this fact. Be specific or are you just blowing smoke again?

From what I could find Victron simply specs that if the installation is in a wet location tin plating is required and that the individual copper strands need to be not greater than 0.016" in diameter, which is AWG 26.
Plus the max. operating temp. is 90ºC.

Ancor stuff is all tin plated and made from AWG 30, which is 0.01" in diameter, and is rated by UL at 105º C. Humpf ............. those seem to comply!

Remember, you said that the Victron products are made for the American market, why would Victron not spec an American wire?

WRT your own self imposed fire resistance rating, again to what spec, be precise, and how do you know that Ancor does not comply or is this just more smoke?

Finally, please let all of us uneducated DIYers know the manufacturer and the exact spec of the wire that you did use and that does meet whatever you and Victron mandate.

 

[luna]

. There is no temperature alarm in the MPPT controller that switches the controller off, the 20 A fuse did not blow, so the condition would have continued.

You are likely right about the fact that there is no alarm that switches the controller off, but from my understanding which is obtained only from reading the Victron info. there is an onboard Terminal High Temp. Error Code #26 alarm that would alert you to this dangerous condition. Do you have this Error Code circuit in place and enabled or do you continue to rely on your nose?

The 20 Amp fuse did not blow as there was no overload on the fuse protected circuit. You just discovered that things can burn up quite easily with a load of a lot less that 20 Amps.

 

[SteveK]

Maybe I missed it. Were there no fuse or breaker on the solar feed lines before entering the MPPT. Would that not have blown before the meltdown?

 

[psneeld]

Not necessarily, a low amp but high resistance connection can generate that kind of heat. High resistance from being loose.

 

[Insequent]

Looking at the pics in post #1 it is difficult to make out but I think the burnt earth wire receptacle is on the 100/15 controller.

So, how confident are you that the panel wiring is as you described and expected it to be? You have 5 pairs of wires coming from the upper deck down to the laz. They will all be very similar. Could it be that the wire pair connected to the 100/15 controller is from one of the 3 groups of 2 panels, and not a single panel as you want it to be?

Two of your panels joined together will be 810Wp and the 100/15 max. input is just 440Wp (24V battery bank). If your wiring installers connected the wrong pair of wires like this then "bad things can be expected". I think this possibility ought to checked.....

 

[ksanders]

From the Victron installation and operations manual.

Sorry but that is pretty clear to me. RTFM

 

[BruceK]

My electrician strongly recommends Victron controllers for a planned solar upgrade. This thread is worrying while informative; more light and less heat would help.

 

[Mambo42]

You do know solar panels are more efficient in cooler temps and angle of the panel makes up for the angle of overhead sun?

I have had panels on a crisp, cold evening with arctic air facing the setting sun and had them at max output.

You really need to just stop with the discussion of less than ideal designed connections...we all will probably agree on that...pretty much all of your other arguments don't matter to many of us or are just not supporting your issue.

Continue to tilt at windmills if you must......

Now that I have dug into this subject a bit more I found that, regarding the installation of Victron equipment there are as many opinions as there are options to do it. The one returning argument in all the fires that I have found is 'you have used the wrong cable up to you have used the wrong ferrule'.
That all sounds very nice, but when you instantly run the risk of a fire if the exact specifications are not used then the design is flawed. There is no other explanation.

 

[Mambo42]

From the Victron installation and operations manual.

Sorry but that is pretty clear to me. RTFM

The discussion is not that it is not clear.
The problem is that this specific cable, of the thickness required, fire retardant and marine grade............could not be sourced in Greece. It was impossible to get that cable unless I would buy the whole roll (needed between 6 and 8 mtrs) for both black and red, for a total price of 800 euro and it was unclear when that special order would then arrive.
That was the reason why a 6 mm2 cable was used.

 

[Mambo42]

Looking at the pics in post #1 it is difficult to make out but I think the burnt earth wire receptacle is on the 100/15 controller.

So, how confident are you that the panel wiring is as you described and expected it to be? You have 5 pairs of wires coming from the upper deck down to the laz. They will all be very similar. Could it be that the wire pair connected to the 100/15 controller is from one of the 3 groups of 2 panels, and not a single panel as you want it to be?

Two of your panels joined together will be 810Wp and the 100/15 max. input is just 440Wp (24V battery bank). If your wiring installers connected the wrong pair of wires like this then "bad things can be expected". I think this possibility ought to checked.....

Panels and controllers are connected well. I can read that on the App and can also see the voltage and amps plus watts while charging.

 

[Mambo42]

Maybe I missed it. Were there no fuse or breaker on the solar feed lines before entering the MPPT. Would that not have blown before the meltdown?

There are fuses installed, but they will only 'blow' when the amps go too high. In this case the amps did not go too high, it was just resistance building up heat that melted the connection block.
After a bit of research it turns out this is quite a common problem, you can find dozens of similar fires / melting via google and youtube.
Most shocking one however is this one:

And on page 34 of the manual of Victron they actually recommend this one. Makes you wonder.

 

[Mambo42]

I know there are quite a few of you who have the opinion that not following the exact specifications to the letter warrants the risk of the whole system going up in flames. Some find it even normal and apparently fully acceptable.

To me it is not. A connection which can be such a fire hazard should not be so critically designed that the slightest deviation automatically leads to a dangerous situation.

Before I started digging on Google and Youtube I thought my situation was prety unique. Turns out that is not the case, it happens quite often and you can read about it on many fora. And everytime the excuses is: 'you have used the wrong cable, used the wrong ferrule, not stripped enough, did not push it in far enough etc etc.

Those excuses sound very nice and perhaps are even true, however when so many installers make this mistake and even people who are trained hobby electricians then there is only one conclusion. If Victron wants to keep using these connection blocks they should only sell this equipment through official installers who also have to install it. No more sales in DIY, chandlers, web shops etc. If it is that critical and so many accidents have happened in the past, that is the only solution, or the connection block needs to be changed into a nut and bolt system.

Victron themselves advice use of a circuitbreaker on page 34 of their manual. This video however shows that you should never ever use that circuit breaker, it will cause an instant fire if used under load.
What do I want to say with that ?
That the manual of Victron and the opinion of Victron is not sacred. Also they make mistakes, but problem is they will never admit it. What they will do is ship a new unit to whoever complains, even if it is outside of warranty (due to wrong cables, ferrules etc). That may be considered very friendly customer service, to me it looks like they know pretty well that the design is not correct.

You may agree with me or not, as I stated, equipment like this would never get a pass in the aviation industry. Since there are lives involved in RV's and boats a higher standard than a static set up should be adhered to.
That is my opinion based on decades of working in the aviation industry.

 

[Mambo42]

You are likely right about the fact that there is no alarm that switches the controller off, but from my understanding which is obtained only from reading the Victron info. there is an onboard Terminal High Temp. Error Code #26 alarm that would alert you to this dangerous condition. Do you have this Error Code circuit in place and enabled or do you continue to rely on your nose?

The 20 Amp fuse did not blow as there was no overload on the fuse protected circuit. You just discovered that things can burn up quite easily with a load of a lot less that 20 Amps.

That temperature alarm was not triggered, nor did I get an alarm indication.
But in fairness I don't want just an alarm, what the high temperature sensor should do it disconnect the supply of electricity coming from the panels. However, that is not possible when the problem is within the connection block and the cables are sitting right next to each other. The only thing to do is cut the cables.
Since the connection is so enormously critical when it comes to solar power a 100 % safe connection should be used and not an unsafe connection just because it has to fit in dimensions they have come up with themselves.
A safe connection block will increase the dimensions of the MPPT controller by about 1 cm, perhaps 2, so no reason why not to change.

My idea is that the refusal of Victron to change the connection block has more to do with legal repercussions. Changing the block would mean they admit the first connection design was wrong and that would open up lots of legal cases. So it is better to simply always give the same answer: 'installer made a mistake and the connection block is perfect'.
It is just waiting for someone to take them to court.

 

[Bmarler]

My electrician strongly recommends Victron controllers for a planned solar upgrade. This thread is worrying while informative; more light and less heat would help.

I have no issue using the Victron controllers, I have two on my boat now. No issue with them at all.
I’m using the 100/30 version. One controller per panel. Solar is a game changer for boats with high consumption electrical systems that want to reduce genset run time.

 

[lwarden]

I'm still baffled by the fact that you can't import the correct cable to Greece from an overseas or other European source. Do they have some sort of a massive tariff or other trade protection in-place, or do shipping companies just plain not do business there? Seems like this sort of lack of importing would make general life very difficult.