34 Mainship MK1

[Keysdisease]

Re the extra 30HP, yes, could make a big difference as 200HP was just enough, and then only in calm to light conditions. That is if the new engine wasn't excessively heavy. Some Cummins mechanical 240HP Mainships I know report similar planing envelopes.

I found 8-9 knots to be just right. It got the bow up a little and reduced "wander" due to bow steering.

I know the difference between 12 and 13.5 is minor, but I always tried to find that sweet spot where she would be on plane with as little throttle as possible. That spot was 13.5 in calm conditions.

Handling at transition speed wasn't a problem, but it's a big strain on everything to spend much time either just above or below the "hump." In my experience with the MKI and Chrysler 200 that zone is 10-13.5knots. You can cruise at 10 knots, but I found that the max and you do throw a pretty significant wake at that speed.

I want to add that I have 12" x 42" trim tabs that really help her get on plane and stay there.

Do you think the 230 hp would make a difference, the extra 30 HP? Interesting you feel the 12 knots is an in between speed for the hull because it just pushes a bunch of water..It sounds like 7-8 knots or 14- 16 knots. In between these speeds is not ideal for handling? How did she handle in the 10 knot range?

 

[Mrwesson]

Another thing to mention is look for one with a functioning autopilot. They are expensive!

Adding an autopilot to my MK1 totally changed my experience for the better. Extremely relaxing. Didn't know how important it was until I had one.

One of the perks of running 7 knots is nobody is in your way and people just kind of navigate around you. Difference between cruising @ the speed limit on the interstate vs 90 mph. Much more work to go that extra 20mph.

The autopilot allows you to relax because all journeys are long and steering for hours sucks.


I have large trim tabs on my 160hp powered MK1 and suspect a 200hp with those same tabs would have no problem running @ 12 knots on plane. I'm almost over the hump with 160.

 

[cruise]

These specs. you mention are hard to find. Not many people actually post the true performance characteristics. Thank you. I can only imagine the large trim tabs are a great help.

Am i reading this right?.. Is what i get out of everything I have read so far on the MK1

-7.5 knots Hull speed least amount of fuel 165 HP OK Best RPM for the 165
-8.5 Knots Slightly higher than hull speed 165 works a bit harder but doable more fuel usage.
-9-10 Knots the bow rises - the boat pushes a large wall of water seems to be an in between speed (beginning of the hump) lots of strain on engine and fuel burn.
-10-12.5 Knots - In the hump too much fuel and pushing of water, not a comfortable speed.
-12.5 - 14 knots - If enough horsepower and able to run at the proper operating RPM is a comfortable planing speed.

Does that look right?

I understand what Boomerang is saying regarding the speed. I have sailed from the BVI to CT. I am quite accustomed to the slow speed and enjoy it also.. Its not always about being there it is about the journey. But!!! Sometimes it is about being there.. Meeting friends for fireworks , Jazz Festival in Newport, things like that. For now the 12 knots help me to be able to be there during my busy work schedule. Later i can leave a week early for them!!

We have little time but have money., or we have a allot of time and little money.. Seems like the boat that may fit that saying!!

Re the extra 30HP, yes, could make a big difference as 200HP was just enough, and then only in calm to light conditions. That is if the new engine wasn't excessively heavy. Some Cummins mechanical 240HP Mainships I know report similar planing envelopes.

I found 8-9 knots to be just right. It got the bow up a little and reduced "wander" due to bow steering.

I know the difference between 12 and 13.5 is minor, but I always tried to find that sweet spot where she would be on plane with as little throttle as possible. That spot was 13.5 in calm conditions.

Handling at transition speed wasn't a problem, but it's a big strain on everything to spend much time either just above or below the "hump." In my experience with the MKI and Chrysler 200 that zone is 10-13.5knots. You can cruise at 10 knots, but I found that the max and you do throw a pretty significant wake at that speed.

I want to add that I have 12" x 42" trim tabs that really help her get on plane and stay there.

 

[Jeff F]

These specs. you mention are hard to find. Not many people actually post the true performance characteristics. Thank you. I can only imagine the large trim tabs are a great help.

Am i reading this right?.. Is what i get out of everything I have read so far on the MK1

-7.5 knots Hull speed least amount of fuel 165 HP OK Best RPM for the 165
-8.5 Knots Slightly higher than hull speed 165 works a bit harder but doable more fuel usage.
-9-10 Knots the bow rises - the boat pushes a large wall of water seems to be an in between speed (beginning of the hump) lots of strain on engine and fuel burn.
-10-12.5 Knots - In the hump too much fuel and pushing of water, not a comfortable speed.
-12.5 - 14 knots - If enough horsepower and able to run at the proper operating RPM is a comfortable planing speed.

Does that look right?

Looks right to me. It's not really a planing boat, so the 'hump' is not as pronounced as on a planing boat, but I don't really like the 9 - 12 knot range. Big wake, bow up. Trim tabs help. At about 12-13 knots the wake flattens out and the boat is reasonably happy at 13 - 14. To get there and stay within the operational cruising range of the motor you need 200+ hp, depending on load. But the boat is happiest at < 9 knots.

I actually toyed with the idea of putting a modern 100-150 hp diesel in my boat, but figured I could keep the ability to occasionally go faster and not give up too much economy or reliability with the Cummins BTA when operating at displacement speeds.

 

[Jeff F]

I'd also add that 7.5 knots is hardly the minimum cruising speed. Slowing from 7.5 to 6.0 - 6.5 knots will improve your mpg dramatically and the boat just slips along at that speed with minimal fuss. That's my normal river cruising speed. Too slow for many but lots of benefits. One of the real strengths of an efficient SD design like the 34 is that there is a wide range of choice in cruising speed.

 

[Mrwesson]

I'd also add that 7.5 knots is hardly the minimum cruising speed. Slowing from 7.5 to 6.0 - 6.5 knots will improve your mpg dramatically and the boat just slips along at that speed with minimal fuss. That's my normal river cruising speed. Too slow for many but lots of benefits. One of the real strengths of an efficient SD design like the 34 is that there is a wide range of choice in cruising speed.

I agree. I always seem to do 7-8 knots but it's not displacement speed for the 34 for sure.. I always make a wake at those speeds.

I will say that going 7 knots seems to be very efficient for my boat but it depends on how you're propped as well.

I turn about 1350 @ 7 knots just outside building boost on the turbo.

 

[Mrwesson]

28hr cummins in good shape and only 28k

https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1974-mainship-trawler-103329069/?refSource=standard listing

probably the wrong coast but still

 

[cruise]

28hr cummins in good shape and only 28k

https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1974-mainship-trawler-103329069/?refSource=standard listing

probably the wrong coast but still

Mr Wesson - I would take that boat in a heartbeat! Washington is just not an option. What a neat setup! Gas stove - Cummins - 7KW Gen - instrumentation inside... That side door is interesting. If you look closely at the pic of the Port side you can see the side door. He did some railing work, fiberglass swim platform.. Nice!


Thanks for lookin. Wanna run her through the Panama canal with me? LOL

 

[Mrwesson]

Mr Wesson - I would take that boat in a heartbeat! Washington is just not an option. What a neat setup! Gas stove - Cummins - 7KW Gen - instrumentation inside... That side door is interesting. If you look closely at the pic of the Port side you can see the side door. He did some railing work, fiberglass swim platform.. Nice!


Thanks for lookin. Wanna run her through the Panama canal with me? LOL

northwest passage lol

 

[cruise]

northwest passage lol

That would be the dream trip! The Mainship is not the rig for that one!

 

[cruise]

Does anyone have any input on the bunk style birth in the MK1. The only forward birth I have actually seen in person has been the v-birth. Is the lower bed of the sideways bunk style large enough for two people? Or maybe has the ability to be modified?

Looking at pictures it looks to be approximately as wide as a twin. Just wonderin* if this is a deal breaker as your primary sleeping arrangement is quite important. I may have possible lead on a MK1 with the bunk style forward stateroom.

 

[boomerang]

We have the crisscrossed bunk arrangement in ours and it's too tight for two unless they're newlyweds. I always end up on the upper bunk or the sofa in the salon. When we get new cushions made we're going to go with thicker mattresses so maybe the extra height will give us a little more width with the hull flare but I'm not expecting there to be a dramatic difference.
Also, you're spot on with your cruise speed observations. I agree with Wesson & Jeff, 6-7 knots really bumps up the economy with a 165 6.354 engine.

 

[Mule]

As I said earlier, I have owned 1 with a 250hp 5.9 Cummins. I saw 14.5 Knots empty once. Boat was squirrelly at that speed. Coming in at 9.5 Knots against a very fast outgoing tide at the Fort Pierce Inlet I lost control of the boat 2x in what must have been a 4.5 to 5.5 knot outflow at the rip. It is Not A Planning hull.
A 165 Perkins is just fine for that hull. Anything above 9 Knots is more that the boat is designed for, so a 165 is just fine. I have operated mine and another that was a 165, I would not hesitate to buy a MK1 with a 165.
If you want a faster boat, then get one designed to be a faster boat, there are lots out there.
My current boat has the one thing my Mainship did not that I really, really wanted. A walk around Queen sized bed. Head room to be upright on your knees w/o sticking your head out the hatch. The stateroom is what prompted me to get rid of the MS. Just making the bed was a major chore. I HATED the state room. Bad enough to have a crowded engine room, but the bed room....nope.

 

[cruise]

Thanks Shawn- What do you think about a removable filler in the narrow part to widen the narrow area?

 

[cruise]

As I said earlier, I have owned 1 with a 250hp 5.9 Cummins. I saw 14.5 Knots empty once. Boat was squirrelly at that speed. Coming in at 9.5 Knots against a very fast outgoing tide at the Fort Pierce Inlet I lost control of the boat 2x in what must have been a 4.5 to 5.5 knot outflow at the rip. It is Not A Planning hull.
A 165 Perkins is just fine for that hull. Anything above 9 Knots is more that the boat is designed for, so a 165 is just fine. I have operated mine and another that was a 165, I would not hesitate to buy a MK1 with a 165.
If you want a faster boat, then get one designed to be a faster boat, there are lots out there.
My current boat has the one thing my Mainship did not that I really, really wanted. A walk around Queen sized bed. Head room to be upright on your knees w/o sticking your head out the hatch. The stateroom is what prompted me to get rid of the MS. Just making the bed was a major chore. I HATED the state room. Bad enough to have a crowded engine room, but the bed room....nope.

Hmm.. Thanks for the input. I do think there are compromises in every boat. A cockpit at water level is a requirement of mine. Someday I may move up to a larger live aboard, but for now some long trips and primary residence will be in my queen bed here on the shore.

I appreciate the input on the speed. I have owned a couple smaller boats (26 sea ray and 24 scout abaco) the Searay max speed was 26 knots. On a calm day I would cruise at 22 knots. Normal sease 18 knots rough seas 16 knots really rough 12 knots. The Scout topped at 40 knots, on a calm days, but the rest of conditions mentioned with the Sea Ray were identical with the Scout.. had to slow her way down or I would lose control in those conditions. The speed was useful when conditions allowed.

I am under the mindset that the mainship with the power you had, 250hp will have the ability to run at a slightly faster speed ie 13 knots safely when conditions allow. But pull her back to the slower speed when required or when on a long hall looking for economy. In my mind the mainship mk1 250hp will give me this performance.

But I may be completely mistaken not owning one before. You probably spent many hours at the helm of your 250hp Cummins mainship. Did you find at certain conditions the 13 knot cruise was useful / safe / comfortable?

 

[boomerang]

Thanks Shawn- What do you think about a removable filler in the narrow part to widen the narrow area?

I've contemplated at doing that exact modification except permanent and not removable - adding a strip of plywood supported by a gusset of each end on the underside with the fiddle railing moved to the outside edge of the new ply. 6" would still allow the stowage on the starboard underside to be accessed and not hinder the opening of the stowage locker & drawers on the port. All fairly easily done but I'm still not sure it's going to be worth it.
As Mule mentioned, the stateroom is a the downfall of that boat.
Every boat is a compromise one way or another.

 

[Mule]

But I may be completely mistaken not owning one before. You probably spent many hours at the helm of your 250hp Cummins mainship. Did you find at certain conditions the 13 knot cruise was useful / safe / comfortable?
================================
I currently have a 6 knot boat. I have to think like a sailboater when it comes to inlets and currents weather conditions and so forth. The sweet spot for speed for me is a comfortable cruise at 8 Knots with 10 pushing it...I do not have that currently so I work around.
In the Mainship I stayed, almost all the time just below the turbo cut in. That was 7-8 Knots. The small difference in ETA of kicking it up a few notches was not worth it. I tried the plane it then back off to minimum RPM sufficient to keep it up. Never really liked it.
Boats seem to have a way of showing you where they want to be and thereby you find that is where you will want to be. That speed is a function first of hull design and second power, least that is what I have found. True of my 90hp Whaler Montuak, 25 Knots, even my VW diesel Jetta, it likes 85mph. Don’t look at the speed and there you are. Just seems to work that way. That is why I say the original designer of the MK1 got it right the first time.
During my young hot rod years I thought I knew more than the Detroit auto engineers. Took a good running 64 Impala and re camed, big Holly Carb and so forth. It ran faster but did not drive worth a damn, rough. I could not wait for stock again much to the disappointment of the speed shop owner...

 

[Jeff F]

.
During my young hot rod years I thought I knew more than the Detroit auto engineers. Took a good running 64 Impala and re camed, big Holly Carb and so forth. It ran faster but did not drive worth a damn, rough. I could not wait for stock again much to the disappointment of the speed shop owner...

Heh. I had a buddy who built several V8 Vegas. The cars would just flex when you hit the throttle. Scary to drive.

I'm not sure that this is the right analogy though. In my view there is no downside to having a Cummins JWAC BTA vs the OEM Perkins. You've still got the efficiency and good manners at the original design speeds with the ability for sustained cruising at higher speeds
under good conditions. It's not going to turn the boat into a sports fisherman, but that's ok. The extra 50% power available comes at very little cost and opens up the range of use cases for the boat.

 

[Mule]

My 5.9 Cummins outperformed the Perkins in all ways but not THAT much more for the cost. The occasional need, or wish, for the additional hp for the cost is just not worth it. If YOU repower when ready to sell you will be lucky to get $.25 on the dollar for your investment. If you can find a problem abated boat with repower like you want for $30-35k great but after that the returns diminish rapidly.

 

[Mule]

Here is a list of Tira boats less than $75k that are designed to move right along.

Take a look.

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/lis...&city=&cint=100&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

 

[cruise]

The tiara is a twin, and a fuel hog. Not in the same bracket. I think you are understimating my boating history and knowledge by comparing a Tiara to a “Fast Trawler” . The 1979 albin 34 is a displacement hull. The Mainship 34 is a semi displacement. Therefore is designed for a higher speed than the full displacement hull if your preference is that! Mule i think you are not comparing apples to apples. If the mainship eas designed as a full displacement i think i would agree 100% with you. I follow lobster boats in my center counsil often running between 12-14 knots.. semi displacement. They need to get to the fishing grounds. They would run a Tiara if fuel was free. Thats not an option and still pull a profit... soo they compromise. The single engine is key for me.. the compromise is perfect for me. Keep a large sea anchor and spare parts and single engine is safe. I feel you can spend that little bit extra time in maintenance on one verse two engines which ratchets up the reliability factor on the single engine.

Again, i get mixed reveiws.. i hear people loving the 13.5 knot cruise when needed in the 34.. and people that can’t do it hate the 13.5 knot cruise. I am trying to find if i am wrong thinking a 13.5 knot cruise is a pipe dream in the 34 with the cummins 250 hp straight six.

Its not matter if i want to, does the boat settle out there and run happily there in calm weather?

 

[boomerang]

Cruise, If you're ever in our area,you're welcome to come paw around our boat & spend a few hours out on the bay to see if the handling/speed/accommodations is something you could live with. Again, ours is the 160 hp Perkins so you're not going to see that 10 knot cruise you're looking for but maybe actually being aboard would help in your future purchase decision making.

 

[cruise]

Cruise, If you're ever in our area,you're welcome to come paw around our boat & spend a few hours out on the bay to see if the handling/speed/accommodations is something you could live with. Again, ours is the 160 hp Perkins so you're not going to see that 10 knot cruise you're looking for but maybe actually being aboard would help in your future purchase decision making.

Thank you Boomerang that is very kind! If i made it down to your area and liked it i may never leave! Well at some point i do plan on heading to th Carloinas to check out possible future residency.

 

[Mule]

The whole of the world is made of compromise. Want a fast boat, get a fast boat. I have owned 2 fuel efficient boats, and surprisingly, fuel (unless doing the loop) is the LEAST of my worries. 2 5.9 Cummins or perks, throddled Down to 8 Knots is 4-5 gallons an hour. I would not blink to doubling my 2 gallon an hour to get 8-9 Knots. To be able to have 15k available would be a dream.

Just look at the quality of construction, the interiors and so on. Mainship MK1 are bear skins and stone knives in comparison. Resale may also be a factor..

Fuel is really a small factor, an additional engine and what goes with it is a much bigger issue

BTW, every thought, every reason you have given I had before I lived my purchase.

 

[lady sue]

New to the Forum Mainship I

I've owned Lady Sue, since 1990, when Warren Timm was Commodore of our fleet and Jay Leonard was second in the clean-up, fix-up department. She still has her Perkins turbocharged 165 hp engine and we make our weekly run to NY Harbor or Sandy Hook to keep her limber. The Yahoo site was a valuable running mate but it got messed up and I got fed up and am very happy to have found Trawler Forum. It's amazing to read almost the same comments, good and not-so, on the boat. Plans call for a mid-July trip to Gardners Basin or the Golden Nugget in Atlantic City, down the coast rather than down the ditch.


I'm contemplating an intracoastal trip to N. Florida leaving around September 20, still much up in the air because at age 84 it might be good to enlist a mate or two. (The real Lady Sue puts grandchildren before long trips.)


I look forward too sharing ideas with owners of these lovely boats, recognizing that all lovely old gals need TLC and a few well budgeted bucks.

Jim Ferry

 

[Mrwesson]

The whole of the world is made of compromise. Want a fast boat, get a fast boat. I have owned 2 fuel efficient boats, and surprisingly, fuel (unless doing the loop) is the LEAST of my worries. 2 5.9 Cummins or perks, throddled Down to 8 Knots is 4-5 gallons an hour. I would not blink to doubling my 2 gallon an hour to get 8-9 Knots. To be able to have 15k available would be a dream.

Just look at the quality of construction, the interiors and so on. Mainship MK1 are bear skins and stone knives in comparison. Resale may also be a factor..

Fuel is really a small factor, an additional engine and what goes with it is a much bigger issue

BTW, every thought, every reason you have given I had before I lived my purchase.

You can also run 1 single cummins in the mainship, burn around 1.5 gal per hour @ 8knots, ability to run 15knots(burning about 15gal per hour) and have one less engine to run.

Not to mention they are half the price but those boats are very nice and of course made better(IMO).


Pulled this from a Tiara 35 with 370hp Cummins 370b's. I was skeptical but you're not far off.

RPM MPH Kt GPH MPG
1000 7.3 6.3 2.5 2.95
1500 10.3 8.9 6.5 1.59
2000 15.1 13.1 20.4 0.74
2200 19.4 16.9 22.7 0.86
2400 25.1 21.8 25.4 0.99
2600 27.2 23.6 29.0 0.94

Mainship 34 repowered with 270hp Cummins
RPM MPH Kt GPH MPG
1000 8.5 7.4 1.5 5.6
1500 10.3 9 3.2 3.2
2000 13.5 11.8 6.5 2
2600 21 18.3 14.2 1.47

Fuel costs add up to someone doing the loop over 3,000 miles and regardless of what people say about it not being as big a factor as other things... That hasn't been my experience.

 

[Mule]

“Fuel costs add up to someone doing the loop over 3,000 miles and regardless of what people say about it not being as big a factor as other things... That hasn't been my experience.”


I think you misunderstood. Unless you are doing the loop or some such” is what I was trying to say. I did not do a good job of it. Sorry.
Price of fuel is down and projections are it will stay down....maybe maybe not???

 

[cruise]

You can also run 1 single cummins in the mainship, burn around 1.5 gal per hour @ 8knots, ability to run 15knots(burning about 15gal per hour) and have one less engine to run.

Not to mention they are half the price but those boats are very nice and of course made better(IMO).


Pulled this from a Tiara 35 with 370hp Cummins 370b's. I was skeptical but you're not far off.

RPM MPH Kt GPH MPG
1000 7.3 6.3 2.5 2.95
1500 10.3 8.9 6.5 1.59
2000 15.1 13.1 20.4 0.74
2200 19.4 16.9 22.7 0.86
2400 25.1 21.8 25.4 0.99
2600 27.2 23.6 29.0 0.94

Mainship 34 repowered with 270hp Cummins
RPM MPH Kt GPH MPG
1000 8.5 7.4 1.5 5.6
1500 10.3 9 3.2 3.2
2000 13.5 11.8 6.5 2
2600 21 18.3 14.2 1.47

Fuel costs add up to someone doing the loop over 3,000 miles and regardless of what people say about it not being as big a factor as other things... That hasn't been my experience.

I typed the longest most technical reply to this!!! But when I hit send it disappeared! So I will give you the short version..Very Short!!

Thank you for all those numbers Mr Wesson. I have always wanted to see that comparison.

In my reply that didn't make it I gave a detailed report on my normal boating season and the Tiara was $8200.00 fuel cost the mainship was $3000.00 not at hull speed.. So if you factor in single engine maint.. Also that I am fine with 10 - 13.5 knot rush speed or 7.5 - 8.5 relaxed speed.. The mainship looks good.. Not to mention I like to know if I have a couple weeks off I can run to the Carolinas without hesitation...Thanks again.

 

[cruise]

Do you all think the owners of these mainship’s hang onto them or they are becoming scarce? Not many coming available!

 

[Mule]

They built +- 1000 of em... time to buy is FL right now, up the coast, closer to winter is the better. Time.
Then there is my deceased friends boat... 5 days from Panama City if you whip it you could be in Stuart. Maybe 10 days later in Yankee land. Great trip through the FL Waterway around and through the Lake. Quality boat, home solar system, custom hard top, new canvas and eisenglass, fresh Perkins 165, complete redecking ofproblem areas, fresh 3 cylinder genset, new back sliding glass door, redone windows, fresh perfection 3 part paint from the deck up, including deck, Renewed galley, Head, holding tank and Raritan electroscan. Monkey fur in stateroom replaced with Naugahyde with closed cell 1/8 in foam insulation ( no mildew) 12volt refer system, completely energy independent less Quick 12 gallon marine hot water heater and reverse cycle air conditioner. Renewed tanks. Everything. Full electronics including autopilot, no AIS. But it is a 165 Mainship