B.C. Becoming Concerned Over Cruise Ship By Pass

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

+1

The Jones Act is a fascinating bill with a huge impact on the maritime industry. There are many vested, wealthy entities with businesses that have been built around the Jones Act and it is extremely unlikely IMO that any special interest group would be successful in creating an exception, even on a limited term basis - as this would surely be seen as opening the door to a general weakening of the Jones Act.

~Alan

A true statement. I think it is self inflicted on both sides. Another big player in all this are the unions. They have a big big interest in keeping the Jones Act alive and well.

It is also correct that the two U.S. representatives are federal. I can tell you the State legislators have these federal representatives ears. But because the law is Federal Law, then only Washington DC (or the courts) can change it.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Yup, Skagway is a nice place with a robust and rowdy year round population.. My first travels there were in the 1970s and last in 2019. The Klondike history is fascinating and with a vehicle it is a good jumping off place for a lot of interesting places to visit in AK and BC.

We loved Skagway. The fun begins when the cruise ships leave around 8 PM and then the locals comes out to play.

We wanted to take ASD up that far, but the weather conditions and small harbor gave us pause. Instead the Admiral suggested we take the ferry from Auke Bay to Skagway, spent the night and came back the next day.

The steam locomotive ride up to the pass was awesome.

 

[rsn48]

Your statement that Skagway currently has a population of 400 is not close to accurate. The current population is closer to 1000. We, Skagway has inoculated, Covid vaccines way more than 600 people and the kids are not even getting shots.
The entire downtown is boarded up isn't very accurate either. Post office is open, municipal building is open, hardware store is open, liquor store open. Yes most all tourist shops are closed but they mostly are in the winter anyway.

My statistic is from the late 90's and early 2000 so I'm not surprised it has changed. But I think you will agree with me when three or large cruise ships come in, it isn't fun in the downtown core with people everywhere including the streets.

By the way, my parents honeymooned there from Whitehorse in 1947. I was there in 2007 and the pedestrian traffic was brutal then.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well one thing is for sure that there are some in the bigger communities that have a love/hate relationship with the cruise industry in Alaska. I bet it is a little quieter in K-Town and Juneau last year.

Follow the money too. Many of the water front businesses are owned by the cruise companies. When they leave at the end of the summer all the stores are boarded up until next summer. There are some spinoffs such as fishing charters and float plane rides etc but the terms and conditions are set by the cruise ship companies, to include kickbacks. The mom and pop stores are slowly disappearing.

 

[soin2la]

B.C. Becoming Concern Over Cruise Ship By Pass

BC is not ”Becoming Concern.” That implies either officials, the citizens, or both are concerned and it is untrue. Those in charge support the Federal ban and an overwhelming number of the BC population favour it, particularly those in the affected ports.

One large lobby segment of the business sector is concerned; the tourism industry. They have been whining and asking for money since the first restriction was implemented a year ago. Many, many, BC tourist based businesses have shifted gears, made adjustments and carried on. Some have changed operating modes, some have learned to rely on locals and some have gone out of business; just like in non-covid times. Some have been quoted that business has been very good, in spite of the pandemic.

Pass the law! Canadian ports aren't open to tourists, so no harm to Canada that isn't self-inflicted.

I sense a misunderstanding of any or all elements of the ban, the PVSA, the proposed change and the reasons behind each.

Canada imposed the ban to prevent harm being inflicted by others. Period.
Kinda like the travel ban imposed on many countries by the US, for the same reason

 

[soin2la]

Still not hearing any excitement from Seattle.

Well, there was this and again blaming Canada, rather than the US law;
https://www.king5.com/article/trave...2022/281-bc2147b0-120e-4f83-a343-b153f2729832

In fact that article conveniently makes no mention of the Jones Act or the PVSA.

Then there is this:
https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2019-10/Alaska Cruise Passenger Survey 2019.pdf

“86% of Seattle cruise ship passengers” fly in from other areas.

That just might be at least one reason Seattle is being quiet.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

BC is not ”Becoming Concern.” That implies either officials, the citizens, or both are concerned and it is untrue. Those in charge support the Federal ban and an overwhelming number of the BC population favour it, particularly those in the affected ports.

One large lobby segment of the business sector is concerned; the tourism industry. They have been whining and asking for money since the first restriction was implemented a year ago. Many, many, BC tourist based businesses have shifted gears, made adjustments and carried on. Some have changed operating modes, some have learned to rely on locals and some have gone out of business; just like in non-covid times. Some have been quoted that business has been very good, in spite of the pandemic.


I sense a misunderstanding of any or all elements of the ban, the PVSA, the proposed change and the reasons behind each.

Canada imposed the ban to prevent harm being inflicted by others. Period.
Kinda like the travel ban imposed on many countries by the US, for the same reason

The original article is a Canadian News source.

 

[soin2la]

The original article is a Canadian News source.

The thread title misrepresents the article.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I disagree.

The thread title misrepresents the article.

 

[Frosty]

I guess it somewhat depends on what the thread title meant. It looks like there is a typo, and it was probably supposed to be either "Becoming A Concern" or "Becoming Concerned." Different meanings for each version. I'd guess the OP meant the latter but I can't say for sure since I didn't start it.

 

[psneeld]

I disagree.

Me too.

Sounds like concern by all parties concerned with losing tourism dollars.

At what level? That is what is debatable......

 

[soin2la]

I guess it somewhat depends on what the thread title meant. It looks like there is a typo

The title is; “B.C. Becoming Concern Over Cruise Ship By Pass”

Literary deficiencies aside, BC is not concerned.

It is the tourism industry crying foul, as is pointed out in the headline: “Cruise ships would bypass B.C. under proposed Alaska law, prompting worries for battered tourism sector.

Quotes in the article; ”(Tourism) Minister is confident bill won't pass” and "When it's safe, we're going to open up international borders” aren’t indications to me that “BC” is losing sleep over it. Nor are its citizens.

 

[soin2la]

Sounds like concern by all parties concerned with losing tourism dollars.

At what level? That is what is debatable......

You are getting warmer.
There are any number of issues for BC to be concerned about, starting with preventing covid-19 deaths and overwhelming our health care system.

At the moment, tourism is in the “too bad” column, with the knowledge it will roar back in due course.

 

[psneeld]

You are getting warmer.
There are any number of issues for BC to be concerned about, starting with preventing covid-19 deaths and overwhelming our health care system.

At the moment, tourism is in the “too bad” column, with the knowledge it will roar back in due course.

Well, maybe you read better or your politicians are completely different than many countries.....

But I would say if a large industry is concerned, then so are politicians and other affiliated businesses....so all in all.....even minority industries and people get enough attention to sway what happens to the average Joe.

We will see where this leads beyond your opinion.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

The title is; “B.C. Becoming Concern Over Cruise Ship By Pass”

Literary deficiencies aside, BC is not concerned.

It is the tourism industry crying foul, as is pointed out in the headline: “Cruise ships would bypass B.C. under proposed Alaska law, prompting worries for battered tourism sector.

Quotes in the article; ”(Tourism) Minister is confident bill won't pass” and "When it's safe, we're going to open up international borders” aren’t indications to me that “BC” is losing sleep over it. Nor are its citizens.

Take it as you may. I not going to debate you over a "title". I not going to waste my valuable retired time doing so.

 

[leeman]

No one is talking about the elephant in the room. The US is way ahead of Canada in vaccinating their people. In theory, the Americans on board these cruise ships should be afraid of stopping in Canada due to the low vaccination rate not the other way around. The Canadian and BC governments need to get their collective acts together. The rest of this crap is just noise.

 

[Retriever]

No one is talking about the elephant in the room. The US is way ahead of Canada in vaccinating their people. In theory, the Americans on board these cruise ships should be afraid of stopping in Canada due to the low vaccination rate not the other way around. The Canadian and BC governments need to get their collective acts together. The rest of this crap is just noise.

And yesterday’s numbers show higher rates of new COVID infections in BC than in Washington. I sure hope Canada speeds up their vaccination process for everyone’s sake. It looks like anyone in the US who wants a vaccine will be able to get one pretty darn soon (I’m out of phase, but with a little internet research and a half day drive, it wasn’t difficult to get an extra vaccine). It would be nice to spend some time in BC in September.

 

[Frosty]

The US is way ahead of Canada in vaccinating their people. In theory, the Americans on board these cruise ships should be afraid of stopping in Canada due to the low vaccination rate not the other way around.

I've never taken a cruise ship, but it could be any nationality on board, couldn't it? (I thought someone mentioned above that it is not all US citizens, which makes sense.)

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I've never taken a cruise ship, but it could be any nationality on board, couldn't it? (I thought someone mentioned above that it is not all US citizens, which makes sense.)

I would also say that everyone on-board will have to prove they have had the vaccine.

 

[soin2la]

I would also say that everyone on-board will have to prove they have had the vaccine.

Then the rights fighters step up.
https://www.ibtimes.com/why-royal-c...cruises-i-dont-want-experimental-gene-3167596

 

[Benthic2]

I think the "rights fight" is going to do what the government has been unable to do, namely get people to take steps to mitigate covid spread. You don't have to get a vaccine....but if you want to take a cruise you do. I think restaurants and coffee shops will start requiring the same thing. Businesses will have to decide whether they want to cater to the anti-vaccers or the pro-vaccers. Since we can't have 2 of everything, the invisible hand will declare a victory for one side or the other.

 

[SteveK]

I made a call and the powers that be have taken it under consideration.
I proposed we allow cruise ships to anchor with no one departing or boarding, clear customs by phone and proceed to US port.

 

[slowgoesit]

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[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

With the exception of K-Town and Wrangell we tend to stay out of the cruise ship ports. Although in 2019 we fell in love with Sitka.

K-Town is a very busy, noisy port when the ships are in town. Once you get out of town thing settle down and its quiet.

Without going into a rabbit hole, if Canada/B.C. is against opening the boarder why would they care about what Alaska does, even if that means changing the Jones Act?

Also if the cruise ships require proof of vaccination prior to boarding why would Canada be against cruise ships stopping in Canada?

 

[koliver]

Also if the cruise ships require proof of vaccination prior to boarding why would Canada be against cruise ships stopping in Canada?

Watch this space.

You will let us know of further developments, Tom?

 

[rsn48]

I will say this about cruise ships and Victoria. Victoria reminds me of Madison Wisconsin where I lived for a couple of years (dad - Canadian military - worked at Truax Field base). Madison in my mind is a special little city, small but feels larger, because of the university the population feels more diversified than a similar city in the States may feel. I loved living in Madison..

Victoria is the same, the ocean coastal contours spreads the city out (the actual Victoria is amazingly small, Saanich is larger), there is diversity of population. The city has a town feel.

But with the cruise ships in downtown, especially on Government street, with all the passengers when there is a "big dump" of people at the port, the street is getting clogged, beginning to resemble Skagway. Instead of a pleasant stroll downtown to enjoy the lights and look in the windows of closed stores, there is congestion.

If I were King of Victoria, I would limit the number of passengers and hence limit the number of cruise ships coming into port. You will all be happy to know, no one ever listens to me.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I will say this about cruise ships and Victoria. Victoria reminds me of Madison Wisconsin where I lived for a couple of years (dad - Canadian military - worked at Truax Field base). Madison in my mind is a special little city, small but feels larger, because of the university the population feels more diversified than a similar city in the States may feel. I loved living in Madison..

Victoria is the same, the ocean coastal contours spreads the city out (the actual Victoria is amazingly small, Saanich is larger), there is diversity of population. The city has a town feel.

But with the cruise ships in downtown, especially on Government street, with all the passengers when there is a "big dump" of people at the port, the street is getting clogged, beginning to resemble Skagway. Instead of a pleasant stroll downtown to enjoy the lights and look in the windows of closed stores, there is congestion.

If I were King of Victoria, I would limit the number of passengers and hence limit the number of cruise ships coming into port. You will all be happy to know, no one ever listens to me.

Yes your highness lol!

I would have to agree. It sucks walking around town when the ships are in.

In Victoria, are the store fronts along the downtown area small mom and pop stores of cruise ship company stores, much like K-Town and Juneau?

 

[Frosty]

Without going into a rabbit hole, if Canada/B.C. is against opening the boarder why would they care about what Alaska does, even if that means changing the Jones Act?

A guess: A change to a major US Shipping Law would likely have permanent repercussions. The reason BC/Canada is limiting border crossings now is because there is a COVID-19 pandemic (btw, I believe the US is also limiting who can cross our borders for the same reason - it's a mutual thing not just Canada). I'd guess BC/Canada are thinking that the pandemic will end, thus the border situation is temporary --- and then they'd like to welcome the ships back.

I'm sure the non-US cruise ship companies would LOVE to see the US Shipping laws changed so their loophole was tweaked to be even more in their favor, so I'm sure they'd back this as well. Not so great for US shipping concerns though (which is who the law is meant to protect).

 

[JLD]

Maybe Congress needs to revisit the Jones Act anyway?

Aside from passenger service it has an impact on the movement of goods. It was an impediment in getting relief materials to Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands after Hurricane Maria. I would imagine it adds to the cost of shipping goods, to Hawaii, Alaska, and the U.S. Territories as well.

Jim

 

[Frosty]

Maybe Congress needs to revisit the Jones Act anyway?

That may be a worthy conversation. I think at issue here is doing it for a temporary situation that would mostly benefit foreign-flagged vessels vs. stepping back and taking an overall look at the whole law and how it could be improved (or kept the same) going forward.

Not changing it now for this specific/temporary situation doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at in full for future - I agree (and would have to learn more before I'd have an informed opinion).

Right now the loophole that foreign-flagged vessels have been happily using for years has turned temporarily sour, so they (and Alaska) want to change the rules. That kind of sticks in my craw. Alaska would benefit, but you have to think the foreign-flagged cruise lines would probably benefit ten times more.

On the other hand, maybe it's fine to bend the rules right now. I only started posting in this thread because people were making it sound like Canada was the bad guy and was somehow stopping cruise ships going from Seattle to Alaska -- when actually it is a US shipping law that is doing it!