Choosing my Ocean Crossing Home - advice needed

[BGodlis]

While I was there, I read this other blog entry. Probably a great example of everything I feared about buying from China.




https://mvmobyduck.com/a-new-build-or-used-duck/

Wow. Just Wow. I met with Jeff prior to that article and he did not mention those issues. So glad I did not go down that path. Again, one more reason to stick with a major and quality manufacturer.

 

[BandB]

Wow. Just Wow. I met with Jeff prior to that article and he did not mention those issues. So glad I did not go down that path. Again, one more reason to stick with a major and quality manufacturer.

There are too many trustworthy boat builders to get involved with others. Both Nordhavn and KK are financially stable and dependable.

 

[ghostrider454]

There are too many trustworthy boat builders to get involved with others. Both Nordhavn and KK are financially stable and dependable.

So is Asboat in Izmir, Turkey. They are building better DD's than China

 

[leeman]

So is Asboat in Izmir, Turkey. They are building better DD's than China

Link please! The ones I found don't work.

 

[BandB]

So is Asboat in Izmir, Turkey. They are building better DD's than China

While that may be true that they are financially stable and trustworthy, be very careful with any assumptions. Many made declarations about Northern Marine. If I was going to contract with a yard in Turkey, I'd definitely seek ways to protect myself in doing so. Do you even know who owns the yard? Not just on the record, but in reality? I am not saying positive or negative as I don't know. On the positive, Turkey boat building is thriving and many builders there have been doing a good job for years. But then, the same is true for China. Just DD never had one long term dependable relationship like Nordhavn does.

 

[ghostrider454]

Link please! The ones I found don't work.

https://www.asboat.com.tr
Ask Judy Waldman - she knows the owners

 

[ghostrider454]

While that may be true that they are financially stable and trustworthy, be very careful with any assumptions. Many made declarations about Northern Marine. If I was going to contract with a yard in Turkey, I'd definitely seek ways to protect myself in doing so. Do you even know who owns the yard? Not just on the record, but in reality? I am not saying positive or negative as I don't know. On the positive, Turkey boat building is thriving and many builders there have been doing a good job for years. But then, the same is true for China. Just DD never had one long term dependable relationship like Nordhavn does.

I know that SeaHorse isn't an American owned company yet people are unaware they are dealing with the Chi-coms and they own the yard.

 

[Snapdragon III]

Both of the boats you are looking at are great boats, but would probably not be my personal choice in that price range. For me, the killer feature of the Nordhavn's is the dry stack exhaust and keel cooler. My previous boat had both, and I loved the simplicity and reliability of having no salt water cooling on the engines. I would look for a new or used version with dry stacks if I was in the market for a Nordhavn. I also like the set up of having a single primary engine, and a wing engine that runs large hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Seems like a good compromise on redundancy while still having the efficiency and prop protection of a single.

If I was shopping in your price range, and wanted to do multiple ocean crossings, my personal dream boat would be a used Dashew FPB64.

Some thoughts from crossing from Hawaii to Seattle in my own 56' trawler last summer.

- The hydraulic stabilizers were not as good as you would think, due to traveling at the low end of the boats speed range to conserve fuel. There was just not as much water resistance on the fins as there is at higher speed, and they were not as effective. Also, they caused us to slow down by 0.5-1.0 kn when turned up. Due to the hit on speed we ended up turning the gain down to about 10% for most of the trip, and just letting the boat roll more. When you do the math on slowing down .8 kn on a 17 day trip, it adds a lot of time to the trip. We would turn up the gain when we were trying to cook, which was helpful.

- Big open spaces are a nightmare on a rough ocean crossing. The name of the game is a tight interior with tons of strong handholds. This kind of sucks all the rest of the time, but is a huge safety issue in really rough weather.

- Large front loading refrigerators are a bit of a nightmare in rough ocean weather. We had bad weather early on in the trip when the fridge was packed. As soon as you opened the door stuff would start falling out like crazy, then you would let go of the door to try and catch it, then the door would swing around wildly trying to break itself off the hinges. It was much better with a second person to stand there and hold the door open, while the first person got stuff out of the fridge.

- The only insurance I could get, which was super expensive, absolutely required that we had a crew of 4 for the ocean crossing. I would make sure that the boat you are getting has comfortable accommodation for at least 4 for a crossing. I had two people I had hired helping me, which was costing me about $600 a day. This changed the math on the cost of going slower and saving on fuel, vs speeding up and burning a little more fuel. It didn't make that much difference in the end though due to heavy weather for the first week of the trip, and the trip being long enough that we just couldn't speed up too much without running out of fuel.

-My boat has a sailing rig, which was not designed properly and had some major problems. We did partially use it, and contrary to the hydraulic stabilizers, it helped with stability, and gave us additional speed. It was really sweet for a couple days on the trip when we were on a broad reach. If properly designed a sailing rig would be sweet for crossing oceans. I don't think we would use it much locally even if it was properly designed. unfortunately, mine is so messed up, I can't really use it, and will probably remove it from the boat all together in the next couple years.

-My boat does not have a raised pilot house on a different level than the rest of the boat, and we did not find it a problem at all. I have heard people express concerns about light from the galley messing up the on watch persons night vision but it seemed to be a non issue to me. The boat came with blackout curtains you could snap in to separate the spaces if you wanted, but we never put them up. Mostly everyone was sleeping at night anyway so it just wasn't an issue. If anyone was cooking, it was the on watch person. Also, with AIS and good radar, we were seeing the few boats that were out there way earlier on the electronics then we could possibly see them with our eyes.

- You find all the leaks in your boat in a hurry out in the ocean in bad weather, and most of them are impossible to fix while you are out there. My last boat was aluminum and despite being 30 years old had almost zero leaks. My new fiberglass boat of a similar age had all the leaks. I am sure this is not as big a problem with a brand new boat, but I also bet you will be surprised at how many leaks even a top quality new boat has.

 

[Mako]

While I was there, I read this other blog entry. Probably a great example of everything I feared about buying from China.

I disagree. You can't generalize like that. It sounds like there were definitely unscrupulous practices going on with that particular shipyard, but to believe a blanket statement like that would mean eliminating a lot of boats we buy in America, including Nordhavn.

 

[Mako]

Just some feedback from my own experience:

I also like the set up of having a single primary engine, and a wing engine that runs large hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Seems like a good compromise on redundancy while still having the efficiency and prop protection of a single.

I also am a devotee to single+get home, although I prefer on the main shaft instead of a wing. However I'm coming around to the idea of no hydraulics but using 230VAC instead. A lot of fishing boats are being outfitted this way as well, and VFDs give excellent speed control.

- Big open spaces are a nightmare on a rough ocean crossing. The name of the game is a tight interior with tons of strong handholds. This kind of sucks all the rest of the time, but is a huge safety issue in really rough weather.

Amen brother! I wish I could find that video of my cousin sleeping on my sofa in the saloon in heavy seas, while it slid 12ft back and forth across the room.

Large front loading refrigerators are a bit of a nightmare in rough ocean weather... As soon as you opened the door stuff would start falling out like crazy, then you would let go of the door to try and catch it, then the door would swing around wildly trying to break itself off the hinges.

I did not have that problem with my domestic fridge, but it was galley down (and forward BTW) so the motion wasn't as bad. I assume yours is up.

I have heard people express concerns about light from the galley messing up the on watch persons night vision but it seemed to be a non issue to me... Also, with AIS and good radar, we were seeing the few boats that were out there way earlier on the electronics then we could possibly see them with our eyes.

Have to completely disagree. I can't stand any lights when on watch and I would turn off my instrument and even compass lights so it was 100% dark. Easy enough to flip the lights back on every 10-15 minutes to check them. Even on my little fishing boat at night I throw a towel over the sounder/plotter and then just reference it occasionally.

You find all the leaks in your boat in a hurry out in the ocean in bad weather, and most of them are impossible to fix while you are out there. My last boat was aluminum and despite being 30 years old had almost zero leaks.

I've had steel hull with caulked teak decks and a wood deckhouse waterproofed with canvas and paint. Everything nice and tight. But when the big seas came a knocking, quickly discovered that most all my porthole gaskets were dried out and leaking like nuts. Funny how even when washing with a hose at the dock that the leaks were not discovered.

 

[Simi 60]

.

- Big open spaces are a nightmare on a rough ocean crossing. The name of the game is a tight interior with tons of strong handholds. This kind of sucks all the rest of the time, but is a huge safety issue in really rough weather.

- .

You need to make the decision
Do you buy the boat suitable for 1% of your time on the water when it all turns to custard
Or the 99% of the time when it's azure seas and palm trees

I choose the later and wait for the right weather windows to make the move.
Of course true ocean crossing goes longer than 3 or 4 days.

 

[Hippocampus]

Simi makes a great point. Only caveat is if you truly want to change cruising grounds periodically having a vessel that can definitely handle whatever the ocean throws at you is the prime (and necessary) consideration. If you haven’t brought it with you you just ain’t got it. You don’t get a second chance.
Even now with computer modeling in ideal circumstances with support from the best weather router forecasting has some degree of reliability out to five days. After that it’s a crapshoot. Even in the 3-5d window on occasion you maybe fooled. Would think just about everybody has been caught in line squalls or other hyper local significant weather when the gribs show a field of arrows with just one or two vanes.
I think your decision is do you really want to do passages? If you do then get the best passagemaker you can afford. Yes there’s many compromises you make in small boats to improve passage making to the detriment of coastal living ease.
I’m not in a position to decide between the 51 and 52 so haven’t voted and won’t. In your position after deciding if you really want all the hassles that come along with passagemaking would then only seek opinions from people who do this activity on boats this size or boats in that budget range. I say budget because even with my limited knowledge of power personally would not choose either of your choices. Would opt for the current generation of 58-65’ Al LRCs. Self righting, faster passage times, more efficient, lower operating costs and greater range at higher cruising speed.

 

[ghostrider454]

You need to make the decision
Do you buy the boat suitable for 1% of your time on the water when it all turns to custardOr the 99% of the time when it's azure seas and palm trees I choose the later and wait for the right weather windows to make the move. Of course true ocean crossing goes longer than 3 or 4 days.

I opt for the sturdiest vessel I can find for those 1% weeks of constant pounding. I don't have a choice. When the barges are ready so we have to be as well. Excepting cyclones and hurricanes we go. I had several self righting vessels and each one lacked a very important component - skilled sailors. My bosun has been with me for 35 yrs and we've trained dozens over the years including my own children (to the dismay of my wife).

 

[Benthic2]

A few random thoughts:

You sacrifice a lot for passage making capability in both livability and capital. As Hippo said, you can generally get decent weather 3-5 days out. If you have a vessel that can cover 750-1000 miles in 4 days ( 8-10 knots ), you can go almost anywhere in 1000 mile hops if you don't have a deadline.

It looks like a Selene 60 is in this same price range* so you could have a bigger boat if you expanded your search beyond N & KK. I would think that would still be a very capable yacht.

I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems like you are unnecessarily hampering your search by looking for one boat that has both passage making capability and is loopable. I'd probably consider different boats for the different journeys.

Have you followed the used boat market in this category ? Are you sure you can't just wait until you are ready, and then buy a 2 or 3 year old boat when you are ready to go? You seem to have a specific timeline in mind, and getting a new build is going to make that difficult. Perhaps another reason for seperate boats. Buy a used boat for the loop whenever you are ready....and order a new boat at the same time. Spend 2 years doing the Loop while the newbuild is constructed and then sell the loop boat when you take delivery of the passage maker. That way you are never boatless regardless of any scheduling hiccups with the new build.

*https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2022-selene-60-3880464/

 

[Hippocampus]

That Selene is a sweet thing. Agree many choices out there. Needs to think. Trans Atlantic? Transpacific? High lat? Not brands. Define the mission. Only then pick the boat.

 

[twistedtree]

Simi makes a great point. Only caveat is if you truly want to change cruising grounds periodically having a vessel that can definitely handle whatever the ocean throws at you is the prime (and necessary) consideration. If you haven’t brought it with you you just ain’t got it. You don’t get a second chance.
Even now with computer modeling in ideal circumstances with support from the best weather router forecasting has some degree of reliability out to five days. After that it’s a crapshoot. Even in the 3-5d window on occasion you maybe fooled. Would think just about everybody has been caught in line squalls or other hyper local significant weather when the gribs show a field of arrows with just one or two vanes.
I think your decision is do you really want to do passages? If you do then get the best passagemaker you can afford. Yes there’s many compromises you make in small boats to improve passage making to the detriment of coastal living ease.
I’m not in a position to decide between the 51 and 52 so haven’t voted and won’t. In your position after deciding if you really want all the hassles that come along with passagemaking would then only seek opinions from people who do this activity on boats this size or boats in that budget range. I say budget because even with my limited knowledge of power personally would not choose either of your choices. Would opt for the current generation of 58-65’ Al LRCs. Self righting, faster passage times, more efficient, lower operating costs and greater range at higher cruising speed.

I agree that there is a threshold of capability to be an ocean crosser. But once you cross that threshold, you have another choice; optimize for crossing, or optimize for cruising. To me, this is the difference between something like a Nordhavn and something like an FPB or other AL long skinny design. Both are ocean capable, but each has been optimized for different parts of it's overall mission.

 

[BandB]

I agree that there is a threshold of capability to be an ocean crosser. But once you cross that threshold, you have another choice; optimize for crossing, or optimize for cruising. To me, this is the difference between something like a Nordhavn and something like an FPB or other AL long skinny design. Both are ocean capable, but each has been optimized for different parts of it's overall mission.

And if you truly want to optimize for crossing oceans, I contend neither a N51 or a KK52 does it fully and to go larger does it to a greater degree. A Nordhavn 62 or 67 or a Krogen 70 is going to be far more comfortable in the rough seas you will see and somewhat safer. Size does start to matter for true ocean crossing. It's not you can vs. you can't. It's you will enjoy vs. you won't. It's you will repeat vs. one time will be more than enough.

 

[BGodlis]

A few random thoughts:

You sacrifice a lot for passage making capability in both livability and capital. As Hippo said, you can generally get decent weather 3-5 days out. If you have a vessel that can cover 750-1000 miles in 4 days ( 8-10 knots ), you can go almost anywhere in 1000 mile hops if you don't have a deadline.

It looks like a Selene 60 is in this same price range* so you could have a bigger boat if you expanded your search beyond N & KK. I would think that would still be a very capable yacht.

I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems like you are unnecessarily hampering your search by looking for one boat that has both passage making capability and is loopable. I'd probably consider different boats for the different journeys.

Have you followed the used boat market in this category ? Are you sure you can't just wait until you are ready, and then buy a 2 or 3 year old boat when you are ready to go? You seem to have a specific timeline in mind, and getting a new build is going to make that difficult. Perhaps another reason for seperate boats. Buy a used boat for the loop whenever you are ready....and order a new boat at the same time. Spend 2 years doing the Loop while the newbuild is constructed and then sell the loop boat when you take delivery of the passage maker. That way you are never boatless regardless of any scheduling hiccups with the new build.

*https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2022-selene-60-3880464/

There are many boats in in the 50-65' LOA range that can fit under 19'1". sometimes you have to get a little creative with the mast/radar arch/hard top, but I personally know folks who have done it up to 65' - AND I don't feel its limiting my choices.

As I originally wrote - my adventure won't start till 2024, likely June-ish. So I can wait on a new build - production or semi-custom. I have not the time, nor reasonable location to buy used now and make use of it. I'd just be watching it depreciate while I pay to maintain and moor it. Buying used in say a year and a half is a crapshoot. No idea what will be available, at what condition, price, etc. Some folks spend years finding the right used boat. I realize this sounds very limited, but I have very specific plans and timing with family members and cannot be held back waiting for the right boat to come on the market. Hence - new.
My understanding of Selene, while limited, is that they are not as well received/respected/put together/or as capable as N or K. Have looked at them locally too. Also, built in China, owned by China. ESG.

 

[BGodlis]

And if you truly want to optimize for crossing oceans, I contend neither a N51 or a KK52 does it fully and to go larger does it to a greater degree. A Nordhavn 62 or 67 or a Krogen 70 is going to be far more comfortable in the rough seas you will see and somewhat safer. Size does start to matter for true ocean crossing. It's not you can vs. you can't. It's you will enjoy vs. you won't. It's you will repeat vs. one time will be more than enough.

OPTIMIZE for ocean crossing is a little over the top. Maybe get a submarine in that case? Sure Dashew/FPB/AL LRC would be more optimized for ocean crossing than N or K, etc, but that becomes more sacrifice to usability and comfort than I will make. Pushing the optimization envelope is generally to the detriment of space/layout/comfort. Most optimal is to have it shipped or captained, fly over and pick it up.
If I read the posts correctly, N is perhaps more optimized for blue water than K, but K is well setup for it as well, and boasts more comfort per foot length. Don't think I can go wrong with either, but devils in the details.
If I had the finances for something 60-68', new or less than 8 years old, that's where I'd head, but this go around it will be in the 50-55' foot range - unless something shows up used that I am missing.

 

[twistedtree]

If you are on a rigid schedule for 2024, I would NOT recommend a new build. The best advice I ever received WRT building a boat, and advice I have passed on many times is to never go into a build with a hard schedule. Everyone Ive seen do it has ended up frustrated and disappointed, and late. Even without supply chain excuses and long backlogs, getting a boat built, commissioned, and shaken down in 2 years is an aggressive schedule.


If the date and schedule is important, I think the way to make sure that happens is to start now looking to buy a brokerage boat. Figure it will take 6 months to 1 year to find one, and maybe even 18 months. And it will take another 6 months to fit it out as you want, run it and find everything that's broken, fix it, and be ready to really go cruising. I really think that's the most reliable way to meet a 2024 schedule, it that's really important.


If it's not a problem for things to stretch out to 2025, then by all means build.

 

[darkside]

Never go to sea in a vessel built on time or on budget.
We are 14 months into a 6 month build at present (far smaller vessel)
Nope not on budget either.

 

[Snapdragon III]

I'd just be watching it depreciate while I pay to maintain and moor it.

I think this is completely the wrong way to look at things. Buying a used boat would easily save you 10 times the cost of maintaining the boat for a couple years. More importantly, it takes a ton of time to get a new or used boat set up for full time cruising. Life is so much better if you can use the boat locally for a couple years to shake out all the systems, and figure out the gear you want, and how it all works. It is so much easier to deal with the hundreds of issues that will come up when you have a marina slip, a car, a network of vendors, good chandleries, etc. Dealing with even minor repairs or upgrades turns into a huge pain once you are out cruising. Especially if you are in a country or area that doesn't have a strong marine industry. The really nice thing about buying used boats in the class you are looking at is that many of them are owned by super smart successful people that have put 1000's of hours, and hundreds of thousands of dollars into getting completely sorted out to an insane level. Many of them will be much better boats than they were the day they left the factory.

 

[BandB]

If you are on a rigid schedule for 2024, I would NOT recommend a new build. The best advice I ever received WRT building a boat, and advice I have passed on many times is to never go into a build with a hard schedule. Everyone Ive seen do it has ended up frustrated and disappointed, and late. Even without supply chain excuses and long backlogs, getting a boat built, commissioned, and shaken down in 2 years is an aggressive schedule.

While I agree with possible issues on a 2024 boating season and with your comments as they apply to the builders being discussed, I must also make it clear that every boat we've had built has been done on time and ready to go. Builders vary greatly in on-time performance, so important to know the builder well.

But with most builders a two year schedule from ordering to completely ready to cruise right now is a challenge and with anything outside a production boat it's likely unrealistic. Production boats have the advantage of reduced commissioning and generally a quick shake down.

Also, watch brokers and sales persons and verify any dates with others. About 6 weeks ago we were quoted by the US brokerage a date of November. Reasonable under normal conditions. We then spoke with those we know at the factory. March is the commitment. He was not happy with the dealer.

 

[ranger58sb]

As I originally wrote - my adventure won't start till 2024, likely June-ish. So I can wait on a new build - production or semi-custom. I have not the time, nor reasonable location to buy used now and make use of it. I'd just be watching it depreciate while I pay to maintain and moor it.

During that two years, you could maybe get most things it needs... fixed. Maybe not all, but most...

If the date and schedule is important, I think the way to make sure that happens is to start now looking to buy a brokerage boat. Figure it will take 6 months to 1 year to find one, and maybe even 18 months. And it will take another 6 months to fit it out as you want, run it and find everything that's broken, fix it, and be ready to really go cruising.

I think more like two years to service, repair, replace, and upgrade.

Never go to sea in a vessel built on time or on budget.
We are 14 months into a 6 month build at present (far smaller vessel)
Nope not on budget either.

I think this is completely the wrong way to look at things. Buying a used boat would easily save you 10 times the cost of maintaining the boat for a couple years. More importantly, it takes a ton of time to get a new or used boat set up for full time cruising. Life is so much better if you can use the boat locally for a couple years to shake out all the systems, and figure out the gear you want, and how it all works. It is so much easier to deal with the hundreds of issues that will come up when you have a marina slip, a car, a network of vendors, good chandleries, etc. Dealing with even minor repairs or upgrades turns into a huge pain once you are out cruising.

Agree. FWIW, we are trying to pack to pack 15 years of experience with our last boat into getting everything on this boat up to snuff. Notional 2 year timeline, and we're just now at the 9 month marker.

I'm now in the neighborhood of 286 line items in my tracking spreadsheet so far... 226 done, 60 to go.... and that doesn't include faults I haven't found yet.

And aside from our delivery trip last year and two other short local trips, we haven't really even yet had much time to actually use the boat.

The boat will at least be usable this year, but... not probably to the point where I'd voluntarily set out on too many long ocean trips. And then we're usually in a protected Bay, usually not all that far from, spares, or labor or expertise for things I can't do. Which int urn influences my vote for the whole two year thing for passagemaking: I think it'd take that long to learn what spares are mandatory, what spares are nice to have, and how to fix everything on the boat -- myself -- while underway.

Might be less of a burden for a newer boat that had been owned/operated by somebody who actually had a clue... but even with our previous boat, I didn't feel like I really knew it until I had about 5 years of my own time to do most of my own maintenance. And that 5 year learning window didn't even start 'til after we'd owned the boat for 6 years prior to retirement.

-Chris

 

[Hippocampus]

Not appreciated by many is that for voyaging it takes quite some time to outfit a boat. I had decades of experience in blue water. Before the new build spent an entire year spec’ing the build infill components. Still got several things wrong. One example was going with a high rpm generator in an effort to save weight. That was replaced with a NL after just one year. Also took awhile to fine tune various things such as set up for heavy weather. Needed to experience adverse conditions on that boat to know what could be improved. Or little things like bedding, organizers for lockers and spares, single purpose tools and the like. After a year we were good to go and safety do blue water but until the day we sold the boat there was always something in my mind I could improve.
The expectation you can just jump on a new build and take off is misplaced in my view. Even after sea trials nether you nor the boat is truly prepared. Yes, you may get lucky and do just fine but I think you need to live with her awhile and have her work for awhile before leaving access to readily available support systems.
In your shoes would go through the exercise of picking several vessels. Then vett them with knowledgeable experienced people (Steve D comes to mind). Then do the spec’s. But be prepared for one to two years after initial splash before you’ve shaked down the bugs and needed improvements. It took one 1700nm and a 2000nm transit before we were truly comfortable we had a “proper “ boat.
There are some very experienced cruisers on this thread who have stayed within the brands you’re considering. Would reach out to them or perhaps they will post here. Think they will confirm new doesn’t mean perfect and even with extensive experience there’s a learning curve.

 

[BGodlis]

Whew! Ok. Message received.
I need to clarify though.
The new vessels in question have a delivery estimate of July 2023 Till about January 2024. Cruising plans start circa June 2024.

August '23 is a little early for my availability, but leaves leeway for delays and I can dedicate nearly full time starting in 2024. Expect to spend ~ 6 months outfitting and learning the vessel. Initial cruising grounds will be Caribbean, East Coast, then maybe we go through Panama, up the west coast to PNW and on to Alaska, or cross from Panama to somewhere. No planned ocean crossings for a year or so.

January vessel is the N51, a production yacht. If its on schedule I have 5 months to get it sorted before we cruise the northern med to France and into the rivers/canals. If its delayed, then I have less time for outfitting, but little things can be done while cruising in a boating friendly area and also protected waters. Would not Attempt ocean crossings till weather is right, maybe winter 2024/2025.



Since both vessels are new, aside from commissioning and multiple shakedown cruises, I have to allot an indeterminate amount of time to outfit, and then my own learning curve and comfort level. In either case crossing oceans is at least around a year out, while we cruise boating friendly and relatively protected waters. I have sailed in full gales, been in 20' seas. I do not wish to repeat either, though I am comfortable that I can manage as long as the vessel can, so, shortest hops reasonably possible, weather routing, carry extra fuel to make better time, and other strategies will ultimately be employed.


Used is still on the table. However, I don't have the time to invest in a used boat right now - maybe a few weeks a year, so owning it now it will just sit. Better bet is to wait a year to get a used boat, but then could be stumped by lack of a good options. Older and cheaper means more to upgrade, more that will likely go wrong sooner, more time spent fixing and upgrading rather than using. Couple N55's for sale right now, 2006 and 2007, one on each coast, single and a twin. Figure, throw $200k in upgrades at either one (thinking electronics, second genny) - but no time for me to work on it now, and then holding costs for over a year and half. Need these option a year from now.

 

[BandB]

Whew! Ok. Message received.
I need to clarify though.
The new vessels in question have a delivery estimate of July 2023 Till about January 2024. Cruising plans start circa June 2024.

August '23 is a little early for my availability, but leaves leeway for delays and I can dedicate nearly full time starting in 2024. Expect to spend ~ 6 months outfitting and learning the vessel. Initial cruising grounds will be Caribbean, East Coast, then maybe we go through Panama, up the west coast to PNW and on to Alaska, or cross from Panama to somewhere. No planned ocean crossings for a year or so.

January vessel is the N51, a production yacht. If its on schedule I have 5 months to get it sorted before we cruise the northern med to France and into the rivers/canals. If its delayed, then I have less time for outfitting, but little things can be done while cruising in a boating friendly area and also protected waters. Would not Attempt ocean crossings till weather is right, maybe winter 2024/2025.

I believe those who have bought Nordhavn and know them well will jump in and tell you that if you have a projected availability from them of January 2024, there is no way you should plan cruising in June 2024. Best case you'd get delivery by then and start a six month period of commissioning and shake down. Worse case you'd start cruising in 2025. Now I understand the N51 is more a production boat, but the same people as always are quoting dates and scheduling production. Nordhavn owners are comfortable with the delays as they ultimately get the boat they desire. I do not know KK's delivery history. Twisted Tree can share when his delivery was first quoted and when he'll actually be cruising.

 

[guy with a boat]

A good friend of mine took delivery of a new boat in France (45’ sailing cat), took two weeks to learn the boat and shake it down. Then he and 3 friends sailed it across the Atlantic and it’s now in the Bahamas.

Not something I recommend or would do, but opinions vary on how much prep time is required. The boat has to be safe, but it doesn’t have to have every detail in its final configuration before you get out there and use it.

 

[BandB]

A good friend of mine took delivery of a new boat in France (45’ sailing cat), took two weeks to learn the boat and shake it down. Then he and 3 friends sailed it across the Atlantic and it’s now in the Bahamas.

Not something I recommend or would do, but opinions vary on how much prep time is required. The boat has to be safe, but it doesn’t have to have every detail in its final configuration before you get out there and use it.

Depends a lot on the builder and their procedures. Some deliver turnkey boats, others have extensive commissioning.

 

[Mac2]

Tons of great advice here. Whichever boat you choose will take a long time to get comfortable with. The more complex the systems, the longer it will take. I'm a livaboard and I'm just past the three year mark, and I'm at the "just getting comfortable" point. A lot of time has been spent upgrading systems. I think it would be a big help to BGodlis (and me) to recommend critical systems, so that he doesn't have to redo a system he discovers on the shakedown, and waste more critical time.
My first suggestion would be to put the biggest anchor and chain practical, along with the correct windlass to handle it. To much is riding on this to skimp out. Look to testing done by S/V Panope-the best I've ever seen.
Next would be systems under the water (to avoid having to take the boat out to redo). Items like line cutters, forward looking sonar, fin thingys(technical term) that deflect debris/rope past active stabilizers.
Solar panels and batteries to match extended stays away from the dock.
Hydronic heater. Fuel polishing system.
These are some of the things I've had to do/doing and they are very time consuming and I would have benefited if they had been installed at build time.
Hope this doesn't detract from the original post.