Cost of upgrading all navigation electronics

[PNK]

I am preparing an offer for a Monk 36, after being on her today, and feeling satisfied that, in almost every way, she is what I have been looking for. However, the radar that was on the boat failed and was removed, and the other electronics are older. In any case, once I put in new radar, the older components likely wouldn't "talk" to it, so I am looking at upgrading everything, and am hoping some of you have ideas of costs. Not to reduce the offering price, just to feel like I have a decent idea of what I will need to spend.
I am talking about a radar dome, probably 24", an MFD for radar, plotter, and AIS, and a new VHF with AIS so it will synch with the new MFD and software. I would need this for the bridge, and the lower helm. I don't really have a preference between Garmin, Raytheon, Simrad, etc. If I decide to add autopilot, it would need to talk to everything else.
Based on only very casual checking, I am thinking this is at least $15-20,000, plus some installation costs. ( Not including the autopilot.)
Can anyone help give me a sense if I am wildly under what it will really cost, or maybe at least somewhere in the ballpark?
Thanks,
Peter

 

[chanprr]

The full set of electronics which I bought over a year ago was $30k. Installation by an experienced tech will be at least $10k.

 

[Comodave]

We changed out all the electronics on our current boat 3 years ago and it was around $10K and I did the installation myself. Our boat doesn’t have a flybridge.

 

[mvweebles]

I went through this 3 years ago. $20k Simrad lower helm and flybridge. I wish I'd spent more in the radar and less on repeater screens. Go for the largest screens you can afford. They're not just bigger, but they have more features and inputs.

Not that tough to install, but doing it neatly with everything buttoned up nicely takes experience.

Peter.

 

[Iggy]

I would have to agree. I went though the same thing. About 10 to14K , but I did the work.

It all depends on what you want, and buy the biggest screen you can.

 

[TBill36]

Installing the actual devices is pretty straight forward. You'll probably be cutting holes and doing a little glass work. Running the cables can be a huge task depending on access. Usually whatever internal holes that cables fit through are crammed full. I just spent a week installing a new autopilot and didn't have to go up on the top.

 

[Iggy]

My boat came with Simrad equipment. The radar was the old G3 type. What was nice, I could use the same cable for the new Halo+ dome. I don't know if that helps, but I was happy not to pull the old cable out and install a new one!

 

[Muddy]

Replaced electronics this past summer on Mainship 390. All 2024 Garmin: Radar (18"); chartplotter (12"); autopilot; VHF; stereo; AIS; GPS antenna; SXM antenna; misc NMEA, cabling, etc.. Cost plus installation was right at $15,000.

 

[mvweebles]

My boat came with Simrad equipment. The radar was the old G3 type. What was nice, I could use the same cable for the new Halo+ dome. I don't know if that helps, but I was happy not to pull the old cable out and install a new one!

On the plus side, the new digital cables are almost always significantly smaller diameter than the old ones with huge plug end fittings. If you can get the old one out, can definitely get the new one it ("if" being the operative word......).

Peter

 

[hmason]

On my boat, all Garmin, included 3 MFDs (16 inch displays) 2 VHF, AIS, RADAR (open array), depth, autopilot, $42k including installation 3 years ago

 

[JackConnick]

I did this about 2 years ago with RayMarine and it ran about $15K all in all, with 2 MFDs. Installation is simple these days, just pulling wire.

 

[sean9c]

Just think, before we decided we needed all these electronics in order to go boating you'd have a compass, a chart, maybe a RDF and if the boat was big enough a radar . It seemed to work.

 

[PNK]

Wow, thanks to everyone for all those responses. Very helpful, and makes me feel that I have a decent handle on what the total cost could be. Some of the components I am comfortable installing myself, but I will definitely want some help, at least for the antennas and autopilot. I am leaning towards Garmin, but am going to check a couple of the other brands just to be sure.

 

[rslifkin]

Just think, before we decided we needed all these electronics in order to go boating you'd have a compass, a chart, maybe a RDF and if the boat was big enough a radar . It seemed to work.

That's why I don't necessarily look at electronics as critical, but they're still useful tools. A well selected set of electronics reduces the workload on the helmsman and/or navigator and in the case of things like radar helps allow the boat to be operated effectively in a wider range of places and conditions.

 

[chanprr]

Just think, before we decided we needed all these electronics in order to go boating you'd have a compass, a chart, maybe a RDF and if the boat was big enough a radar . It seemed to work.

Seems like overkill to have all those electronics on board but when weather closes in, the electronics are essential. I still carry paper charts though.

 

[Mambo42]

I can only recommend to stay away from Raymarine. I replaced all my Raymarine equipment about 6 months ago and the Axioms are a complete nightmare. Freeze up continuously, lead their own life, I have to keep my old Simrad NSS12 as back up, otherwise I run into dangerous situations all the time.
Checked with other Axiom owners and many of them report the same problems. Very annoying.

 

[PNK]

All those comments about electronics and overkill struck a chord; When I was much younger, back in the 60's, I boated and fished all over Peconic Bay to Gardiner's Bay, and through the canal into Shinnecock and the ocean cut, with nothing except my eyes, ears, and local knowledge. Of course, these were just day-trips, and in somewhat sheltered bays, although Peconic could kick up suddenly, but now, having an interest in going to unfamiliar places, I can't imagine doing the same thing.
Driving my car is similar now; it is almost second nature to enter a destination into the GPS, even when I think I know the way. And when I walked into a large highway rest stop to ask for a map last year, the kid behind the counter actually laughed, and asked why I would want a map!
No question we - or at least I - have lost something in the process, but I will also admit that the technology provides some reassurance and comfort, and I am not planning to go back. But I will be sure to keep paper charts on hand, just in case.
Peter

 

[Mambo42]

All those comments about electronics and overkill struck a chord; When I was much younger, back in the 60's, I boated and fished all over Peconic Bay to Gardiner's Bay, and through the canal into Shinnecock and the ocean cut, with nothing except my eyes, ears, and local knowledge. Of course, these were just day-trips, and in somewhat sheltered bays, although Peconic could kick up suddenly, but now, having an interest in going to unfamiliar places, I can't imagine doing the same thing.
Driving my car is similar now; it is almost second nature to enter a destination into the GPS, even when I think I know the way. And when I walked into a large highway rest stop to ask for a map last year, the kid behind the counter actually laughed, and asked why I would want a map!
No question we - or at least I - have lost something in the process, but I will also admit that the technology provides some reassurance and comfort, and I am not planning to go back. But I will be sure to keep paper charts on hand, just in case.
Peter

I agree that many have way too much equipment onboard, equipment that they may never use. If you only go out during the weekend, in day time and be back before sunset you probably don't need radar, AIS, autopilot etc etc.
However, when you make night passages you better have everything that is available onboard to avoid getting into dangerous situations.
I took this picture just now, it is 1 AM, just walked the dogs, came back to the boat and saw this. I know what is lying there, because I saw it during day time and it is right in the entrance of an anchorage / port / marina (Sukosan, Croatia).
Anybody has any idea what is lurking in the dark ?
Imagine entering this anchorage, searching for a spot to anchor and this thing lies there buried in the back ground lights. In moments like that you will be happy you have radar, AIS capability or even a night vision camera. Otherwise you would run the risk of running into this 'thing'.

I will let you guess what it is and when I wake up tomorrow I will post the picture of the same boat by daylight.

 

[Comodave]

I can only recommend to stay away from Raymarine. I replaced all my Raymarine equipment about 6 months ago and the Axioms are a complete nightmare. Freeze up continuously, lead their own life, I have to keep my old Simrad NSS12 as back up, otherwise I run into dangerous situations all the time.
Checked with other Axiom owners and many of them report the same problems. Very annoying.

I have 2 Axioms on our boat and had zero problems with them. I am quite satisfied with them.

 

[Delta Riverat]

OK, I'll play, looks like a couple of sail boats close. Good thing the big one has a good anchor light.

 

[minuteman]

Three years on axiom and no issues at all. Just added a second unit

 

[Docktopus]

I’ll guess a pretty good sized ketch, maybe 50-60’

 

[mvweebles]

All those comments about electronics and overkill struck a chord; When I was much younger, back in the 60's, I boated and fished all over Peconic Bay to Gardiner's Bay, and through the canal into Shinnecock and the ocean cut, with nothing except my eyes, ears, and local knowledge. Of course, these were just day-trips, and in somewhat sheltered bays, although Peconic could kick up suddenly, but now, having an interest in going to unfamiliar places, I can't imagine doing the same thing.
Driving my car is similar now; it is almost second nature to enter a destination into the GPS, even when I think I know the way. And when I walked into a large highway rest stop to ask for a map last year, the kid behind the counter actually laughed, and asked why I would want a map!
No question we - or at least I - have lost something in the process, but I will also admit that the technology provides some reassurance and comfort, and I am not planning to go back. But I will be sure to keep paper charts on hand, just in case.
Peter

I selected Simrad because I wanted an MFD with a dial, not just touch screen. I ruled out Garmin for no good reason except they seemed to have more frustrated owners than the other brands. Just a guess, but my gut feel is 'planned obsolescence' is a design parameter. Given I made my decision 4-5 years ago, I'd be interested in what you're seeing in the market and why you're leaning towards Garmin.

I think you have to decide what the motivation is to buy electronics. I suspect very few people boat in a manner where they use radar or navigation controls beyond autopilot activation ('use' being the operative word - may be turned on, but in-use?). Right now I use radar/nav fulltime, but once I get to Florida, line-of-sight. So the motivation for is either nerd-lust or rationalizing because you might get overcome by a fog bank (as if radar makes fog easy). I know it's popular on boating forums to consider ourselves average Joes, but the truth is we usually have above-average means and can afford cool-o MFD systems so we do it. Imagine the look you'd get in the 'Hood if you had this conversation about spending $10k-$20k on an MFD: "An MFD? I know what "MF" means, what's the D?"

Peter

 

[TBill36]

I'll abbreviate manufactures as to not have repercussions.

I have all G except the autopilot. I just changed out an old S for a new S. Read about issues with calibrating the G AP that I didn't want to deal with. The G MFD just plugs into the S AP via NMEA 2000 and provides tracking.

G electronics seem to be intuitively obvious for setting up screens and getting it to display what you want. Not so much on S. Also, the G tech support is better. Not as long a wait on the phone, and they will call you back and keep your place in line. No so with S, so you have to wait on the phone for them and it's easy to drop off after waiting for 40 minutes.

My experience is the G techs are more knowledgeable and don't have to go on hold to find the answer. My recent experience with the setting up the S AP, the tech wanted to quickly jump to - we don't support it when hooked up to another manufacture's device. When pressed - Oh just toggle toggle down on the S AP controller to navigation and hit select.

The newer G devices don't always network with the older ones. Not sure if that's a trend, but bothersome when you have a $5000 MFD that won't communicate with the newer version.

The new G won't take other manufactures map chips so you're stuck with Navionics of whatever G supports. C-map which some prefer won't work, although it does on some other the older G MFDs.

There are also great sales at WM when the manufactures are coming out with a newer version. Paid $500 for the 94SV G display that comes with a tranducer - nice to have redundant depth. It is a 9" screen that I use for running the AP. It's basically stand alone.

The other bigger displays run the radar and have their own sonar. Everything has GPS and luckily one of the older displays takes C-map - it's nice to have both.

 

[mvweebles]

I'd forgotten how bad Simrad tech support is. They earned their way on to my "never again" list. Trying to setup a Simrad AIS/VHF on my Simrae system didn't work out well and required multiple calls to tech support. Abysmal. I ended up getting rid of the Simrad AIS and going with a standalone.

That leaves Raymarine and Garmin if I were to do this again. Or some sort of DIY system based on PC/Coastal Explorer which is what I used for years before MFD became reasonably affordable. Worked fine.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Personally I'm no Garmin fan. I don't like their approach to things, and I haven't found the UI on their products I've used to be particularly intuitive.

I've liked the Navico (Simrad / Lowrance / B&G) gear I've used, although in my minimal support interactions, I'll agree that they're lacking in that department.

No personal experience with newer Raymarine gear, so no opinions to offer.

There's always Furuno as the gold standard. Depending on what you're buying, they're not necessarily any more expensive than the high end gear from the other brands. When I looked to compare them to Simrad for a few MFDs, radar, and autopilot, they came out pretty close. The Furuno MFDs were a little more expensive than the equivalent Simrad stuff, but the radar and autopilot were a little cheaper.