Double Enders

[MurrayM]

Found this old (1960's?) clip of boats entering Depoe Bay, Oregon.

Ringing endorsement for double ended hulls at 1:23

 

[Nomad Willy]

One in perfect control about 3/4 of the way through.

Another turned around and headed back out passing another boat about 2’ away.

Thanks Murray.

 

[Ken E.]

Gives me the creeps just watching that clip.

 

[MurrayM]

I particularly liked how wave energy would flow along the double enders sides, rather than push a transom until the boat broached.

 

[trawlercap]

I remember Double Enders from my early days watching salmon trollers. The design fell out of fashion. I can only speculate why ( I really don't know)are...hard to build, rob the back deck of space, make a tight laz (mine is nice but it's a 58 footer) And the desire to go faster. I believe the are natures favorite way to slip through the water,. I'm blown away at the lack of fuss or wake on my boat...




Double Ender



8 knots, no vibration, cavitation, hardly a wake.

 

[South of Heaven]

Are those normal conditions for that inlet?? Why were there so many small boats out that day??

 

[trawlercap]

Are those normal conditions for that inlet?? Why were there so many small boats out that day??

It's a sunny summer day. The NW wind blows like stink as it warms up inland. Its really just a deep cut in the rocks as you can see. It's well liked by small boats as the harbor is tiny, and there is no river bar to cross. It's typically calm early in the day, and these guys look like they waited too long after it started to do it's "daily" blow thing. Its right on Highway 101 so it's a big tourist attraction.. Washington and Oregon and N. California suck (in my opinion) as the whole coast lack a decent hiding spot without a river bar. It's a tough place. From Oregon to CA, the hotter it gets inland, the harder the wind blows from the NW causing upwelling (good for fish) and cold pacific air to fill the rising hot air. I prefer Alaska any day.

 

[mvweebles]

Are those normal conditions for that inlet?? Why were there so many small boats out that day??

Depoe Bay is the ultimate in pucker factor. The conditions in the film are normal but the USCG will close the harbor regularly - they have a motor-lifeboat station there. Still, even on a calm day, the ocean swell makes the trip 'animated.'. In my opinion, it is the most extreme example of west coast bar crossings. I'm sure you get used to it, but not for me. Even on a good day, not for me - approach is narrow and there's a decent hairpin turn.

Peter

 

[Arc]

I wish there was a live feed . I could watch that all day

 

[O C Diver]

Found this old (1960's?) clip of boats entering Depoe Bay, Oregon.

Ringing endorsement for double ended hulls at 1:23

Interesting footage! Some of it appears to be in fast motion (as opposed to slow motion). Would be interesting to see it at normal speed.

Ted

 

[Hippocampus]

May want to read the various threads on Attainable Adventures or Robert Perry (designed multiple double enders including several I cruised) or Desirable and Undesirable Features or Dashew. Multiple highly respected naval architects point out the appearance above the waterline is irrelevant. Even whether the keelson extends all the way aft is irrelevant. Behavior while surfing or in heavy seas is more complex. Primarily determined if you’ve achieved a balanced hull at all expected angles of heel. This can be done by balanced ends with some degree of decreasing beam and increasing rocker as you approach the ends as traditionally taught or balanced water planes throughout all extremes of heel as seen in modern design in spite of the “slice of pizza” appearance above the waterline. Some feel that for displacement hulls with very modest beam to length ratios so easily driven the traditional approach has more to offer. But this can be achieved without the need for double ended design. This approach was taken by Dashew, Artnautica and others. The troller non double ended derived designs as well e.g. Diesel Ducks.

 

[BrianG]

My boat resembles the hero of 1:33. Only had her in rough weather once and it did seem to split following seas and maintain course-- has a huge rudder if that has any affect on steering.
The footage is probably old regular eight film and the frame rates were low and motors marginal. Furthermore, the boaters in that film are insane. They looked to be laughing it all off.

 

[Greg S]

I remember Double Enders from my early days watching salmon trollers. The design fell out of fashion. I can only speculate why ( I really don't know)are...hard to build, rob the back deck of space, make a tight laz (mine is nice but it's a 58 footer) And the desire to go faster. I believe the are natures favorite way to slip through the water,. I'm blown away at the lack of fuss or wake on my boat...

I commercial salmon fished both from a double ender and a flat transom. When trolling you are in the cockpit right at the transom, if there is one, and the whole back of the boat is your work station. It is preferable to land your catch over the last foot or two of the side of the boat but sometimes the salmon have a different idea. Then you often have to work the transom area across the back of the boat. The guy I fished with on the double ender often mentioned he wished the stern post and pointy part didn't stick out so far, it always seemed to be in the way. He wanted a flat transom and the next boat he built had one.

 

[FF]

A displacement boat is limited by the power aboard that can be used to climb the boats bow wave.

A boat at SL1 (Sq RT LWL) will usually have a bow and stern wave of about the same size with a hollow amidships .

As the boat goes faster the bow wave gets higher and the stern begins to squat .

The transom boats squat less , so can go faster with the same power .

The canoe stern squats deeper leaving more energy in the water , which can cause following waves to break earlier..

But they sure are eye candy!

A ROT (rule of thumb) for transoms is ,,about foot wide at cruise for each knot of speed and the transom should be barely immersed .

 

[Alaskaflyer]

A few years ago my wife and I took some time to drive US 101 down from Seattle where I had been on a work assignment, to California Hwy 1 and on to home in the Bay Area. We lingered at Depoe Bay for a couple hours watching the inlet on an afternoon. It wasn't quite as sporty as what was seen on that video but still fun watching. It was sunny and warm but not nearly as busy as above, I wonder if that was shot on Fourth of July or similar.

There's also good whale watching there in the wintertime, apparently.

 

[Moonfish]

May want to read the various threads on Attainable Adventures or Robert Perry (designed multiple double enders including several I cruised) or Desirable and Undesirable Features or Dashew. Multiple highly respected naval architects point out the appearance above the waterline is irrelevant. Even whether the keelson extends all the way aft is irrelevant. Behavior while surfing or in heavy seas is more complex. Primarily determined if you’ve achieved a balanced hull at all expected angles of heel. This can be done by balanced ends with some degree of decreasing beam and increasing rocker as you approach the ends as traditionally taught or balanced water planes throughout all extremes of heel as seen in modern design in spite of the “slice of pizza” appearance above the waterline. Some feel that for displacement hulls with very modest beam to length ratios so easily driven the traditional approach has more to offer. But this can be achieved without the need for double ended design. This approach was taken by Dashew, Artnautica and others. The troller non double ended derived designs as well e.g. Diesel Ducks.

Excellent post!

 

[Lepke]

Small salmon boats under 35' were usually double enders. As boats got bigger or war surplus launches were converted fishermen liked the ease of transom fishing. Lots of fishing boats in my time were war surplus running a Detroit. I fished a 55' transom boat and from the fishing cockpit, I could reach and touch the water. With a transom, the floor is lower than possible with a canoe stern so the hatch hits about waist high and is more comfortable and secure for the fisherman.
I remember a double ender that was still powered by a 1 cylinder Hicks gas engine. I liked watching it go in and out of the harbor. You could see the boat surge each time the cylinder fired and it had that old chug-chug sound.

 

[trawlercap]

With a thread title of "double Enders" I can't resist posting a few images. A lot more goes into making a good boat, but the canoe stern has become rare I think.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Double enders indeed.

 

[trawlercap]

Depo Bay in Sept. this year. Much better conditions. I want to take my 16' Hobie Skiff out sometime. We are sitting at picnic table eating fish and chips. Pretty nice way to spend a day.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Hey Nomad Eric, who/what is that Sitka Europa-style boat?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Alaskaflyer,
Don’t know exactly what the Europa style is. Think it may be the side decks and roof overhang.
Then you’d be talking bout the Griffin.

She’s been sold since this pic about 15yrs ago. But I’ve heard she’s still a fairly common sight in the PNW. She has a small Cat engine aft w a V drive.

I took this pic in Thorne Bay 50mi. NW of Ketchikan.

AKF,
What’s your Alaska connection?

 

[Brooksie]

Good in following seas for sure but just as important, rise easily to head seas and much less likely to take greenies over the bow than a transom stern.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Alaskaflyer,
Don’t know exactly what the Europa style is. Think it may be the side decks and roof overhang.
Then you’d be talking bout the Griffin.

She’s been sold since this pic about 15yrs ago. But I’ve heard she’s still a fairly common sight in the PNW. She has a small Cat engine aft w a V drive.

I took this pic in Thorne Bay 50mi. NW of Ketchikan.

AKF,
What’s your Alaska connection?

I lived and worked in Alaska for a little over a decade total, left in 2012 for a job promotion, but still travel there a fair bit (2020 excluded ) to see friends in the Interior and down around Juneau and there 'bouts. We'd like to spend time there in the summer again, by boat with maybe a small dirt abode too, once we get our retirement ducks in a row a little more. Until then I'm landlocked.

 

[wallaceyachts]

The posted pics of Depoe Bay are great. The sight from the water, coming in is very intimidating. I just passed by recently, (heading Seattle to LA) and opted to scoot down to Newport, Yaquina Bay. From the water you see the bridge, and when you look under the bridge, you don't see the channel as one might think. It dog legs hard right when entering, so your view is a really tight entrance, with rock beyond. You don't see the harbor at all....I chickened out, and opted for Newport.

My boat is a canoe stern, and I agree with the assessment of Katherine Jane. Up and down the west coast we have been in plenty of short duration waves higher than the boat. Never took water over either end, and she never had a tendency to swap ends.

 

[mvweebles]

The posted pics of Depoe Bay are great. The sight from the water, coming in is very intimidating. I just passed by recently, (heading Seattle to LA) and opted to scoot down to Newport, Yaquina Bay. From the water you see the bridge, and when you look under the bridge, you don't see the channel as one might think. It dog legs hard right when entering, so your view is a really tight entrance, with rock beyond. You don't see the harbor at all....I chickened out, and opted for Newport.

My boat is a canoe stern, and I agree with the assessment of Katherine Jane. Up and down the west coast we have been in plenty of short duration waves higher than the boat. Never took water over either end, and she never had a tendency to swap ends. View attachment 111197

Oh man, a Malahide! What a great looking boat. More pics please.

Peter

 

[Alaskaflyer]

https://www.wallaceyachts.com

 

[wallaceyachts]

Thanks.....here she is:

https://youtu.be/G_M3aRVMH6A

 

[trawlercap]

Good in following seas for sure but just as important, rise easily to head seas and much less likely to take greenies over the bow than a transom stern.

The wheelhouse is located way aft from modern day designs. Big bow, house aft, should give it a fighting chance in head seas.

 

[trawlercap]

Thanks.....here she is:

https://youtu.be/G_M3aRVMH6A

Awesome presentation/vessel just sweet! Thanks