How Bad are Older Salt Water Boats?

[taime1]

We are in the early stages of trawler searching and I thought I'd reach out for some advice/knowledge/discussion on issues with older salt water boats, in a general sense.

I was speaking with a former marine surveyor whose opinion I highly regard who suggested that I should never purchase a saltwater boat, especially from the southern US due to storms and such. Now, my financial situation differs significantly from his and as much as I'd like to find a fresh-water only boat, I'm not sure I'll be able to in my price range.

I'm in the market (well, I will be once I sell my current sailboat) for an under $50k trawler, well under is preferred, and have found a few boats of interest along the east coast (MD, FL). But, as these are salties and usually from the late 70's to 80's, I'm wondering about the extent of issues that may be the result of salt water exposure.

I guess my question can be boiled down to: is it reasonable to eliminate salt water boats from my list of potential boats?

Some of his rationale for the no-salt includes poor resale value and higher maintenance and repair. Obviously, the corrosive nature of salt will impact a boat's condition but I'd like to wrap my head around just how much.

Comments, thoughts and suggestions are most welcome.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Simple answer, in my opinion, is it is not reasonable to exclude salt water boats. More complicated would be do you always intend to use the boat on the Ottawa River and the Great Lakes? Having had a boat on the Great Lakes, the US South East and the Caribbean I have found the cold in storage in the North, and the heat in storage in the Caribbean accounted for more damage than the salt water.

Salt water has its effect that is sure, but if you are buying an older boat the one thing you want is to make sure that it has been well maintained. Well maintained should take care of the damage from salt water.

Totally personal comment. You should plan on someday going to Quebec City if not further east on the Saint Lawrence, also south along the Hudson to NYC. In that case you will have taken the boat to salt water.

 

[caltexflanc]

There is no general rule. There are great boats and horrid boats, fresh and salt. The Great Lakes boats are typically a little pricier, given fresh water and heated storage half the year.

As for price, initial cost of ownership is but a small part of the equation.

 

[taime1]

Simple answer, in my opinion, is it is not reasonable to exclude salt water boats...

...You should plan on someday going to Quebec City if not further east on the Saint Lawrence, also south along the Hudson to NYC.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I think the pool of potential boats would also shrink considerably, making the searching much more difficult.

As to the use, yes travel is part of the plan - as often, as long, and as far as we can. It's more about time, we're a family with young kids so work and kid stuff take up alot of time.

 

[taime1]

There is no general rule. There are great boats and horrid boats, fresh and salt. The Great Lakes boats are typically a little pricier, given fresh water and heated storage half the year.

As for price, initial cost of ownership is but a small part of the equation.

Good points. I am also working on calculating the operation costs of a larger boat. Right now, marina fees, insurance, fuel and maintenance are fairly small costs. Larger and older makes for more $ and more complex logistics. But if it can keep us on the water longer and get us there more often, I'll find a way to make it work.

I love the sailboat, but the Admiral is less inclined to heeling and not a fan of small spaces. I think the transition from sail to trawler is somewhat natural. The kids could use more deck space...and the parents separate cabins

 

[janice142]

Not to forget I'm sure, but do remember the hurricanes on the Gulf coast. Some of those damaged boats went north and now are in fresh water. Whatever you choose, find a fabulous surveyor to have at the boat to ensure everything is on the up and up. (A decent surveyor should be able to find hurricane damage, especially when it is not repaired properly.)

Does the sun damage boat further south? Undoubtedly. Does the freezing weather north damage boats too? Yes. Salt is bad for boats and so too is ice.

Whatever you chose won't be perfect. The trick is to find what will satisfy you in the near-term that can be made better down the waterways....

I wish you and your better half all the best.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. t. By all means look at saltwater boats. As mentioned, a salt water environment is much tougher than a fresh water one but a good survey/surveyor should point out any salt water induced trauma. Same as real estate. Condition, condition, condition. Current and last vessels came from and were in salt water a good part of their lives and still floating. One can expect to pay some sort of premium for a fw boat so why use those extra $$ to pay for something not all that important.

 

[taime1]

Not to forget I'm sure, but do remember the hurricanes on the Gulf coast. Some of those damaged boats went north and now are in fresh water. Whatever you choose, find a fabulous surveyor to have at the boat to ensure everything is on the up and up. (A decent surveyor should be able to find hurricane damage, especially when it is not repaired properly.)

Does the sun damage boat further south? Undoubtedly. Does the freezing weather north damage boats too? Yes. Salt is bad for boats and so too is ice.

Whatever you chose won't be perfect. The trick is to find what will satisfy you in the near-term that can be made better down the waterways....

I wish you and your better half all the best.

I did read about hurricane boats somewhere and to look out for them. Very sage advice to hire a surveyor and that's something I will most certainly do when the time comes.

I'm sure we'll find something that will be the next step for us - I can't wait to get there, but want to enjoy the adventure along the way.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Forgot to mention, osmosis (blisters) is more prevalent in fresh water as well.

 

[taime1]

Greetings,
Forgot to mention, osmosis (blisters) is more prevalent in fresh water as well.

Thanks RT - I agree, condition is key and I'm more aware now that salt water life isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world. Besides, boats were indeed built to be used there.

As to the fresh water cost premium, I'm begining to think that it may be overstated.

 

[alormaria]

No, it is not. The same boat in fresh water will be in much better condition. My 1977 34' Marine Trader has been mistaken for a much younger boat because it has always been in fresh water.

Another thing - expensive, well made boats fare better in salt water than their less expensive counterparts. If you want to go cheap, go fresh!

 

[Andy G]

Slight hijack here.

If someone took a salty and moved it to fresh water, gave it a scrub up and bottom paint, could you really tell the difference anyway?

 

[taime1]

No, it is not. The same boat in fresh water will be in much better condition. My 1977 34' Marine Trader has been mistaken for a much younger boat because it has always been in fresh water.

Another thing - expensive, well made boats fare better in salt water than their less expensive counterparts. If you want to go cheap, go fresh!

Thanks Al - do you think that it would just take extra maintenance for the salt water boat to be kept at the same level, or is it simply impossible?

I guess that the same can be said about fresh water in regards to expensive boats.

 

[pilothouse king]

It's been my experience that pretty much all Hurricane damaged boats, and sinkers from the Coasts are taken inland and "reborn" as "freshwater boats" solely because people don't think to ask so far away from the coasts. After my experience with a "surveyor" in Tennessee last week, I now see why so many people move them inland to sell, because apparently the surveyors don't look too hard! I've had people who do this for a living say "not only there, but as far north as Ontario" as has been confirmed by GOOD surveyors up there. SO, just because you see them IN freshwater now, doesn't mean they weren't in (in as in under!) salt before.
Here's the deal: TRY to buy a boat from an owner who wasn't counting every penny in his ownership, but kept the boat in tip top condition out of pride of ownership, with no expectations of recouping any money because he knew boats are a investment in a LIFE STYLE and nothing else. Don't go bottom fishing, and be surprised when you only catch catfish and eels. Fish up on the surface where the quality fish live. Which means don't go trolling through the boatyards that store garbage hunting for boats, but go to the Yacht Clubs and tony addresses where the nice boats live. These owners will likely give you a plum (if they like you, and think you'll keep loving their boats) for the price others will give you a turd.

 

[rwidman]

We are in the early stages of trawler searching and I thought I'd reach out for some advice/knowledge/discussion on issues with older salt water boats, in a general sense.............

What is a "salt water boat"?

 

[taime1]

Here's the deal: TRY to buy a boat from an owner who wasn't counting every penny in his ownership, but kept the boat in tip top condition out of pride of ownership, with no expectations of recouping any money because he knew boats are a investment in a LIFE STYLE and nothing else. Don't go bottom fishing, and be surprised when you only catch catfish and eels. Fish up on the surface where the quality fish live. Which means don't go trolling through the boatyards that store garbage hunting for boats, but go to the Yacht Clubs and tony addresses where the nice boats live. These owners will likely give you a plum (if they like you, and think you'll keep loving their boats) for the price others will give you a turd.

Interesting point - I have limited searching to ads online, it never really occured to me to actually go to yards and such. Perhaps I can give that a try. I'm not sure how open people would be to visitors, but you never know.

I'd love to find that owner, and continue to care for his boat. I believe in that legacy. Ultimately, I'd like to repay that favor to someone when/if I'll be able to do so in the future.

 

[taime1]

What is a "salt water boat"?

Well, to me it's a boat that has spent all or most of its life in salt water, as opposed to fresh water.

I guess it could be better quantified/evaluated in the actual time in salt water and perhaps make a general guideline as to when a boat is considered to be a salt water boat.

Perhaps I am using incorrect terminology?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

"I was speaking with a former marine surveyor whose opinion I highly regard who suggested that I should never purchase a saltwater boat, especially from the southern US due to storms and such."

Stop talking to that guy. Because if that is his idea of good advice, I'd be highly suspect of anything other opinions he may hold on buying a boat.

 

[taime1]

"I was speaking with a former marine surveyor whose opinion I highly regard who suggested that I should never purchase a saltwater boat, especially from the southern US due to storms and such."

Stop talking to that guy. Because if that is his idea of good advice, I'd be highly suspect of anything other opinions he may hold on buying a boat.

lol, I can't - I'm related to him. I was a little surprised when he mentioned that because I'm pretty sure he's purchased salt water boats in the past and there weren't any crazy issues.

I think he is trying to look out for my best interests and perhaps this advice may do that. The comment was also related to importing a boat from the US coast and he suggested finding a local one instead. While it may be logistically easier to make a transaction locally, it narrows the number of boats down considerably. Besides, there aren't that many trawlers in our area...I'd be one of the trendsetters!

 

[Capt.Bill11]

lol, I can't - I'm related to him.

Well then just use one ear.

 

[rwidman]

Well, to me it's a boat that has spent all or most of its life in salt water, as opposed to fresh water.

All but the smallest and cheapest boats are designed to be used in water. Any water.

 

[Rambler]

Slight hijack here.

If someone took a salty and moved it to fresh water, gave it a scrub up and bottom paint, could you really tell the difference anyway?

More than likely, yes. They'll be some pitting someplace, a fitting most likely, wire connections, etc. Could be easily seen, might take some hard looks behind and under things, or it could be internal to the engine cooling or other systems. But, properly taken care of when it was in salt water will limit the damages, if any. Lack of maintenance is the issue, not what type of water it floated in.

 

[ghost]

So, to summarize its an over generalization based on a sometimes nugget of truth. You will have to inconvenience yourself to dig a little deeper than one broad statement.

I'll pick on another one, or two.

1.) Smaller boat is cheaper and less complex. Uh....not necessarily. I have a 48foot boat now with twin engines. Compared to my 28 foot sportfish I replaced, it has one extra head, otherwise it has the exact same number of systems as my twin diesel sportfish. They simply get laid out over a larger area. The 28 engines were high performance turbocharged after cooled high maintenance beasts. My 48 has twin naturally aspirated 3208 caterpillars, which are massively more reliable and cheaper easier to maintain, especially without turbo's and after coolers. Also, when I need to do something on the 48, its usually easy to get to. On the 28, there were precious few jobs that did not require stuffing one's body into a hole much too small. Overall, I'd say the 48 is in many ways much easier to maintain. The obvious exceptions being anything that requires washing/polishing/painting, in which case I'd rather have my 23 foot boat back. We almost bought a 43 foot boat, but realized that 45 foot slips were somewhat rare, so it was likely that a 43 or 48 foot boat both required a 50 foot slip, hence the same cost level for moorage. It's really worth paying attention to the details on these points.

2.) Your budget only allows a more inexpensive boat. Ouch. No. I've been through too many boats to know that the most expensive boat you will ever purchase is the cheapest one. Owning a boat is a balancing act of following a planned maintenance program that arrives at a rate of renewal that is slightly greater than the natural rate of decay. Cheap boats are always always project boats, which means that your efforts are going into restoration, allowing for insufficient attention to keep up with natural decay. You work like crazy and only go backwards. If you buy an inexpensive boat, its very possible the repair needs outstrip the purchase cost if you drag the bottom of the barrel. You want to find somebody's completed turnkey boat, one they are taking a loss on. That's the cheapest boat out there and inexpensive has little to do with a high or low sales price.

 

[MVNoPlans]

An additional consideration is whether it has been kept in a boathouse or covered moorage. Here in Puget Sound, you can walk the docks and look at 30-50 year old boats that never leave the drink and look fabulous because they under cover. I also believe the ambient air temperature has something to do with condition. We don't have the steamy humid summers that taken together with the salt can get corrosion going in unique places, in my opinion. Heck, cars don't even rust here on the shoreline or islands. It is pretty benign.

 

[degidio]

This is a very interesting thread.

I've owned boats for the past 30 years. All on fresh water, stored for winter months. They all needed maintenance for mechanical issues to include preventive and remedial maintenece. I'm proud of my boat, so the cosmetic upkeep is important as well. I don't see this as being any different with a boat that lives in salt water. People will maintain their boats at various levels. I'd be more inclined to purchase a 20 year old boat that has been well maintained and sitting in salt water then a 5 year old boat with poor maintenance on a freshwater lake.

I too will soon be trawler shopping. I will look at as many boats as I can. I won't eliminate anything based on one opinion. It's in my best interest to gather as much information as I can to make an informed decision.

 

[pilothouse king]

We don't have the steamy humid summers that taken together with the salt can get corrosion going in unique places, in my opinion. Heck, cars don't even rust here on the shoreline or islands. It is pretty benign.

I know. I love it out there on the West Coast, I see boats and cars out there looking like new, still running the streets and waterways- that dissolved here only years after being built.
I flew out to Seattle to look at a Ramcharger 4x4 I saw online.
I'd previously owned 3 of them, and had no idea that's what they're supposed to look like minus rust. Bought it of course. Made it 3 years before it started to dissolve. Now it's in Texas.

 

[caltexflanc]

do you think that it would just take extra maintenance for the salt water boat to be kept at the same level, or is it simply impossible?

No, it is quite possible, and common.

I've been through too many boats to know that the most expensive boat you will ever purchase is the cheapest one.

He speaks wisely!

.... and maintenance are fairly small costs.

Famous last words!

 

[Underway]

A Great Lakes boat of the same age will have between a third and a half the time in the water as for a salt water boat. And the larger ones will have been stored in a heated building the rest of the time. No sun or water damage for the time on the hard. And because they are on the hard during those long, boring winter months, owners tend to tinker with them...shine them up...make improvements. I see it all the time. They don't sit in a slip and collect barnacles and blisters. By the way, I don't know where the earlier comment about fresh water boats being more susceptible to blisters comes from...don't think it's so. In any case, I wouldn't be looking at old slow trawler style boats in your circumstance. A smaller, late model Carver/Cruisers/Sea Ray motor yacht makes a whole lot more sense in that (my) part of the world. Cheap, economical to own, and fast enough to get you places while the kids are growing up. There are hundreds of them on the market at give away prices.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. s. Boats/manufacturers of hulls prone to blistering will experience the problem more in fresh water because there is less water in salt water.

 

[taime1]

A Great Lakes boat of the same age will have between a third and a half the time in the water as for a salt water boat. And the larger ones will have been stored in a heated building the rest of the time. In any case, I wouldn't be looking at old slow trawler style boats in your circumstance. A smaller, late model Carver/Cruisers/Sea Ray motor yacht makes a whole lot more sense in that (my) part of the world. Cheap, economical to own, and fast enough to get you places while the kids are growing up. There are hundreds of them on the market at give away prices.

This might be a dumb question but, why would the larger ones be in heated storage?

I wouldn't be looking at old slow trawler style boats in your circumstance. A smaller, late model Carver/Cruisers/Sea Ray motor yacht makes a whole lot more sense in that (my) part of the world. Cheap, economical to own, and fast enough to get you places while the kids are growing up. There are hundreds of them on the market at give away prices.

That's also true - I am open to other types, but not many seem to fit the layout that I want, particularily the exterior (walk around decks, easy boarding, good size aft deck, flybridge). I'm also on the fence as to the gas vs. diesel for many different reasons and have more researching to do on that - but that's for another post.

As to speed, we don't really do speed. Not yet anyway. I'm sure the kids will grow out of the snail pace and will want to do wakeboarding or waterskiing, but neither a cruiser or trawler would be good for that. There is some comfort in knowing that you can get back to safety in a hurry to run away from the weather or for medical reasons perhaps.

I really appreciate the discussion and feedback from everyone. It's giving me cause for good reflection. In any event I haven't had any interest in my sailboat, so for now, reflection is about all I can do !