How big is too big for a first boat?

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I'm from the start small and work up camp. There is so much you have never experienced yet like the effects of a cross wind or current that you are expected to know operating a boat of that size. Its one thing if you have been on a friend or family members boat and had some experience, but walking in cold, not even a kayak? You need book knowledge, (in most states like NJ, a certificate from a safe boating course), hands on experience to improve your skills, and someone competent to answer the hundreds of questions that will come up. You can buy a Chapman Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling and start your learning process tomorrow.
Insurance might be a problem.
The US Coast Guard Auxiliary is active in your area (5th Northern District, Division 18, Flotilla 18-2 serves the Glassboro area or 18-4 covers Gloucester Township). Sign up for their ABS public education classes as a start. The following link is not all-inclusive. There are many courses given that never make the list.
Auxiliary Public Boating Courses Nearby
 
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I bought my first boat - today, officially - a 1978 pilothouse, 53 ft'er, no FB, no thrusters, 50,000 lbs. No significant prior experience running a boat. My hull survey was not stellar. Windy and busy bay. FWIW I got insurance fairly easily, no port risk overlay, no requirement to have training, $5K deductible, $170K boat coverage plus $10K personal property & the usual liability limits, full-time liveaboard. Pretty expensive, though, at $2600/yr. All the same, I will be hiring a captain for training, as well as taking a class.

Doesn't seem like much difference between 36 and 43. More likely that you'd wish you'd gotten the 43 after a year with the 36, than the other way around. If the quality/condition are comparable, the 43 seems like a smart buy, long term. Not speaking from a whole lot of experience, though, obviously.
 
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Handling is more a matter of boat both design and propulsion/thrusters than size.

So a small 42 isn't much different than a big 36.

I am usually in the Cape May area but enroute to Florida.

NJ usually doesn't have much in the way of trawler or distance cruising type boats....the Chesapeake or LI Sound areas may produce more.

As far as experience, there is so much to learn from weather to systems and mechanicalsunch to navigation and related info.

Impossible to learn all quickly....but people do it and seem to survive and enjoy. Just the day before yesterday, a sailboat illegally transited part of the C and D canal in the fog when it was officially closed. When they were advised, they pressed on anyhow. Probably nothing happened as they sounded so clueless on the radio, maybe sympathy saved them.
 
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Over the last 20 years the average trawler built has gotten bigger. In my opinion 34 feet is now toward the lower end of the size range and 43 is about the middle. Many folks are happy with either size. We live for months at a time on a 42 foot boat. A 34 would be tight for us.

What I suggest you consider is finding a charter operation that will rent you a 36 ft boat for a week and staff it with a training captain. By the end of the week you will have developed some skills and will have a feel for whether you need a 34 ft or 43 ft boat to live on. This is what we did (in the last century). We used Southwest Florida Yachts but there are many others.
 
Crusty Chief said:
Get the boat that picks you! You'll figure out how to operate it as time passes, just go slow and make sure you get help.

One word of caution, buy the boat for you and your better half. Don't worry about guests. Unless your only doing day cruises, the two of you will most likely be the only ones on the boat most of the time. We found this to be true for us.

Good luck!
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I think this sums it up NICELY!

Life it too short for the wrong boat. If you have the passion for it, you will pick it up quickly. One you "get it" as in , wrapping your head around the basic concept of owning and handling yachts, you will flatten out the learning curve in short order.

Good luck!
 
Luke-44 said:
My dilemma is this: I had more or less concluded my ideal starter size was going to be 34-37', a twin screw (easier handling from all I've read) but not necessary if a single came along with bow thruster. However due to circumstances a really clean low hours full keel twin screw 43 has come my way and the price is very attractive, similar to the nice (and a bit newer) 34-37's I had been considering, and I've been watching for a while for the exact perfect fit. Survey and inspection has checked out, the boat quality is not in question, it's a beauty. It "feels" right in that regard.

But I worry, is it too much boat as a starter?
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Doesn't sound like a dilemma, to me. Not much difference between handling a 37 and a 43 -- of the same type. Go for it.

More likely you might discover issues that flow from the boat's type. For example, aft-cabin fybridge boats and flybridge boats with extended bridges often present visibility issues while docking stern-to... as compared with a sportfish. Nothing insurmountable, just an example of a situation you might encounter... but it'd likely be the same issue with a 37 of that type, too.

-Chris
 
The lack of experience can be overcome surprisingly fast with the right training. As others have suggested, getting some hands on training is absolutely essential to success and especially in your case where you are jumping into a large vessel. I would view your training requirements as two main categories: 1) classroom training and 2) hands on training


Classroom instruction to learn navigation, rules of the road, safety, weather, marine communication, ships systems (electrical, propulsion, plumbing, electronics). The classroom training is generally more readily available and can be augmented with books, online training, seminars.


The hands on training is generally less accessible and you need to seek it out, and in my opinion it is frequently skipped. As others have mentioned it can be attained variety of ways (private instruction by teaching captain, crewed charter, assisted delivery). Unlike the classroom type material where one instructor can lecture a group of 30, the hands on training is limited to one instructor and a couple of students at a time so it is more costly and harder to schedule (and requires access to a boat). Even at the higher cost the hands on training is invaluable. Learning to maneuver a boat is a complex challenge and 80% of the effort is battling your nerves. Having the right person at your side to guide you through it is invaluable in terms of providing confidence and overcoming your nerves. Similarly, having an instructor to walk you through all of the systems of the boat and demonstrate how they work and what to keep an eye on is very beneficial.


I instruct sailboat cruising classes (part time) at an established school and while each course covers various topics, confined maneuvering and docking is a high priority for all of our students. I would love to think that I am a docking genius and my glory is reflected through their learning but the truth is that they are able to RELAX and just perform what the already know because an "expert" is there to help guide them along. I would contend that these students perform better than many sailors with 20 years of "experience" because they learned in a well structured environment. Teaching is a skillset unique from being able to just perform the task, that said make sure any captain you hire has the experience and enthusiasm for teaching. Ask around for recommendations and the right instructor will make all of the difference in the world. (please understand I am not advertising myself or the school I work for, I'm just sharing my perspective as an instructor)
 
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Take classroom boating classes over the winter and take some hands-on boat handling lessons in the spring.
 
Crusty Chief said:
Get the boat that picks you! You'll figure out how to operate it as time passes, just go slow and make sure you get help.

One word of caution, buy the boat for you and your better half. Don't worry about guests. Unless your only doing day cruises, the two of you will most likely be the only ones on the boat most of the time. We found this to be true for us.

Good luck!
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What he said. This is my FIRST BOAT!! of any size. I've hired captains to help from time to time only to find out I could drive the boat better than them, because I know the boat. No bow or stern thrusters - just two screws. A gentleman in a slip next to mine gave me the BEST advice on how to dock our girl in heavy wind & current on the Columbia. Point, ask for help from your neighbors who have experience on like boats. If the shoe fits, put it on & wear it until its broke in. Good luck.
 
*** WARNING ***
This testimony is from a newbie !

This year we spent our first year onboard our first ever boat so I can talk about experience.
We got our boat in the 1000 islands area and had to move it to its berth in Hawkesbury, ottawa river.
Again this was our first boat and not much experience except theories, and childhood memories about being onboard.
We got 2 half day of training from the PO, training about docking it, maneuver it in the wind etc, so not much in reality just the basic stuff.
Our route was going through rideau canal, from Kingston, Ontario to Ottawa, crossing 48 locks, almost 200 nautic in 1 week.
We learned the hard way, a bit like jumping in the water without knowing how to swim but it was the most wonderful experience of my life.
It is surely very stressful, you have to be very very careful, for you but also for others, and you need to get prepared.
Boat handling while underway was not the difficult part, know where you need to go or where you are neither as it was a navigation channel well marked for most of it.
The hard part was the first locks, 4 in a row to cross. We looked, we listened carefully, we learned and we did it. People at the lock station were very helpful and encouraging.

In one year we learned so much about our boat, handling, anchoring, maintenance and even how to give assistance to others.

Now some advice and comments:

1. I am a self learner, I like it that way. I like to read a lot, to understand, to look at others, and know when to ask question when needed. I know my limits and when I feel ready to do something or not. This may not be the case for everybody.
2. I know how to mitigate a risk and what is my risk tolerance. Some people told me they were amazed about what we did but I don't think there is anything to be amazed of. It was just about preparation and behavior.
3. Prepare carefully what you will do, have all the map, look at them everyday during month, prepare your route, know what is on your route and where you will go.
4. Learn as many theoretical things you can absorb, you must know how to read maps, how to find where you are.
5. Be handy, you need to be able to get yourself out of trouble if any. Be prepared to do repairs by yourself, have all the tools you can think about onboard.
6. Be stress resistant, in any situation you need to stay cool and same for your wife or anyone onboard.
7.Be very careful, very very careful, especially when you dock aside a multi thousands bucks boat!
8. Check the weather! Do not go out if the weather forecast tells you there will be a storm!
9. Be paranoid, better to be too much careful than in too much trouble.

This first week of boating for us will stay forever in our memory, it was hard, stressful and exhausting, but it was so much rewarding, we learned so much, we met so many people, and at the end, when the journey is finished, the feeling of accomplishment is overwhelming. May looks stupid for other that crossed oceans but for us, it was our adventure.

Now I will never say that we are skilled. I will never say that I feel ready to go out at sea at the moment. It was inland water, it was protected area and in no way I feel that would have done that at sea and I need years of experience before going out there.
But I cannot wait our next adventure next year to discover and learn new things.
 
... And to answer your question about size. Well this is something also I discovered. You don't need big to have enough. We have a 30 ft and we are amazed at how much space we have for two of us. I saw how many useless thing you can have at home that you don't need onboard. For us a galley, a dining, a head and a stateroom is good enough for our vacations. Surely I will not live permanently onboard but for some month no issue.
 
Alabama Boater said:
Luke … while I read many of the posts here on TF, I don’t normally respond. However, your question is similar to a situation I was close to. I have had many cruising type boats working up from a 21’ cutty cabin to a 43’ yacht fish so I have not had to answer the “what size first question”. I was exposed to a fellow boater that made the big boat jump. The boat in question was a twin engine, wide body, 38’ Carver. His prior experience was with fishing boats and made the first cruiser purchase of a nice 26’ I/O express cruiser. This boat was an excellent day cruiser but not very accommodating for overnight trips. After a year with the 26’, he jumped to the 38’. As a little background, we live in a closed community with a protected marina and the river houses can have covered docks with lifts. Our water level varies about 5’ and the shore has open reach so boats have to be lifted out of the water, no floating docks, bigger boats go to the marina. I was not involved in any of the discussion or decision on the upsizing to the 38’. After purchase, I was asked to help move the boat a 100 miles to our home base. The move went well but I had to take over for any docking or lockage, he was not yet comfortable in close quarters. This move was in April and over the summer we took several joint cruises up and down the river. His skills improved considerably. BUT, every trip had to be a planned because the boat had a hassle factor … check the weather … wind blowing? (windage issue), clean an aft cabin cruiser (several hrs), handle the 50 amp shore cord or twin 30’s, 6 dock lines, dock side water, TV connection. He did not want to go through all this prep, maneuver out of a narrow fairway to the river, just for a sunset cruise. I have a 37’ express. 30 minutes to wash, side tie with 3 lines (small windage issue) and can leave slip in 5 minutes. No hassle. Another factor came into play. The boat was only ½ mile from where he lived, he could use it year round, anytime he wanted. The first season saw 75 hrs, second season 30 hrs, and then sold. Numerous upgrades like inverter, large battery bank, new AC, new refer did not overcome “I can use it anytime” and the hassle factor. How does this relate to your question? You are new to boating and considering a bigger first time boat, have a new on the water property, and adjusting to retirement. It comes down to “find time to use the boat” or “make time to use the boat”. The bigger boat has more space, better amenities, more upkeep, and needs more usage to be comfortable operating in ever changing water conditions. If you have the boat where you live and have not gained the necessary experience, it can become easier not to use, than to make time to go boating. Just my experience and opinion.
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This is really good advice, I think.

You're making a lot of really big changes all at once. Maybe slow down a bit. Get moved in to the new house, learn about the area, how your new friends and neighbors live, what the winter is like, how much you'll really use the boat, then think about the boat.
 
I have grown with my boat ownership from learning to sail a small boat as a child to owning many under 25 ft sailboats to a 32 ft powerboat to the 41 ft sundeck trawler we have now. I understood enough of the difference between the handling of sailboats to a powerboat to HIRE a training captain for a weekend on the boat with my wife and I. It was worth thousands more than it cost us.

We have taken many courses in a classroom setting with lots of book reading before each class. Learning the rules, concepts and regulations is the first part. Then, it is worth your time to take a course with an on board training captain before you even purchase your boat. We took a course at a yacht charter company before we purchased our first powerboat. It was well worth it to make sure both my wife and I were on the same page with ownership and use before making the cash plunge. Plus we both were trained to handle a powerboat as a couple before we actually purchased one. And we have the certification to charter all over the world now if we choose to do so.

Others have noted the maintenance issues a larger boat will bring. The difference between a twin screw 32 ft boat to a 41 ft twin screw boat is quite a lot. Most of the items were on both boats. But the complexity of the larger boat is 10 fold.

I would also recommend getting on as many boats as you can before you purchase one. It will be time well spent in finding the boat you love to be on.
 
Please take this with a grain of salt. Many on here have thousands of hours behind the wheels of large boats. I am not among them.

We moved from a 22' center console to a 50' single engine without functioning thrusters. I truly believe that it is not the size of the boat (up to a certain point and for me its past 50'), it is your attitude towards learning it that will matter. Piloting our boat still makes me nervous at times, yet it isn't rocket science. Do get a training captain for a few days; recognize the dangers but don't let others scare you. Exercise good judgment, take things slow, and do your best to know your weaknesses. You will have ugly docking attempts, you will have tense moments, and you will wonder what you've gotten yourself into but so has everyone else with a boat.

Having been faced with your same decision, I am glad we bought the boat we wanted, not the boat we wanted to learn on.

Edit: One more thing. I've done much of my hands on learning with a buddy who is very competent around larger boats. Had it been just my wife and me on many of the initial cruises, it would have been much more stressful. However, experienced help and support allowed for more relaxed docking, more confidence, and less yelling :). If you take friends with you on your learning cruises, take ones who know what they're doing and who will help. Keep in mind that if the learning process isn't somewhat fun or if one person is doing all the work, you may come to resent or dislike boat trips.
 
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There's a good chance your insurance company will require that you take lessons and get experience with a instructor anyway... learn on the boat you want, it's always better to buy your last boat first...
 
Cottontop said:
This is really good advice, I think. You're making a lot of really big changes all at once. Maybe slow down a bit. Get moved in to the new house, learn about the area, how your new friends and neighbors live, what the winter is like, how much you'll really use the boat, then think about the boat.
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Thanks cottontop for the comments at a glance it would look that way, but I've known the area well for 40 years and we have good friends who live close by so in our case we are "moving back home". We bought our new home a year ago, and are doing renovations right now. While we've enjoyed our time here in NJ, nobody moves to Jersey for retirement. If you're from the state you'll know what I mean, great memories but we won't be looking back. In summary, the boat is the new variable in our lives, the boating season is definitely short in the area so we expect to fit our guests in during the prime summer months, all part of the equation that factored into what we were looking for.
 
alormaria said:
Take classroom boating classes over the winter and take some hands-on boat handling lessons in the spring.
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Agree...
I'm a big proponent of US Power Squadron courses. Many to choose from and some squadrons now offer some on the water time.
The courses will give you knowledge...
Practice will give you confidence.
If you have an attitude that you can/will learn either will work. I knowa few folks that were too nervous to ever take theirboat out to learn /practice. It dependsa lot on your nature & attitude.
If your time in 1000 Is will befull time you will have opportunity to learn morequickly.
 
Donsan said:
Geez, I didn't think people moved to NY or Canada for retirement!
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If you are a cruiser there is some great waters in that area...
Rideau...Trent Severn...Richeliu canals...St Lawrence...Lk Champlain...Lk Ontario...NY canals provide some nice fresh water cruising grounds
 
Bacchus said:
If you are a cruiser there is some great waters in that area...
Rideau...Trent Severn...Richeliu canals...St Lawrence...Lk Champlain...Lk Ontario...NY canals provide some nice fresh water cruising grounds
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Rideau is really something to see and take time to enjoy. But go there early in the season or late as in mid summer there a lot of people
 
@Luke-44:

All good advice. I will chime in with my $0.02. The size boat may not be predicated by what you 'think' you need. There are often other variables. Can you haul it home to your house to store? Is there a marina/yard within acceptable distance to store it? Are you expecting to do annual maintenance (or have a yard do it) especially winterization. Is your dock large enough? Is there enough room to maneuver around your home dock (I don't know if you live on a canal, or lagoon) And last but not least can you maneuver around in the Engine Room to do usual underway maintenance?

I ask because I wanted a 42'er but my mooring was limited by the town to 34'. So I shopped for under 34'. There is a 15 to 20 year wait list for moorings where I live. I'm still on a slip list since 1993! So there may be other requirements you need to make sure aren't mucking it up also.

Best of luck.
 
Luke,
As others have said, hire a training captain for a few days and you will be fine.
But consider: Everything is charged by the foot, marinas, haul outs, bottom paint, it all adds up. It's a cubic thing...the extra 10 feet isn't a 1/3 bigger boat, it is nearly twice the size.

The best advice I received was, "Buy the smallest boat you will be comfortable on". After nearly four years and over 17,000 miles, I still believe that is good advice.
Welcome to the club,
Arch
 
CraigC said:
I bought my first boat - today, officially - a 1978 pilothouse, 53 ft'er, no FB, no thrusters, 50,000 lbs. No significant prior experience running a boat... Windy and busy bay...
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A 53'? You are my hero!! Thanks for the inspiration!

Lou_tribal - as a newbie your perspective is extremely valuable plus you know the exact area I'm going to be in. I felt reading your post like I was there with you, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks.

cappy208 said:
... I will chime in with my $0.02.. . Is your dock large enough? UMMHH...[/COLOR Is there enough room to maneuver around your home dock (I don't know if you live on a canal, or lagoon) ACESS IS GOOD STRAIGHT IN...So there may be other requirements you need to make sure aren't mucking it up...
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So many good points here, the main concern I have being the dock length. My assigned slip is 35' long. It's a unique situation, 10 slips and I am a deeded 1/10 owner of the slips, a slip owners association jointly owned by the adjacent lots. Bylaws say nothing about length only width (15' I'll be at 13'8) it's a U shaped layout, faces east, entry/slip approach is straight in and almost always glass smooth.

I have been asking around about the overhang, my possible baby being 38' at the waterline. Best I've been able to get is "you'll overhang but you should be OK" or "worst case is you may need to add a 5' floater extension off the end" or "you may need to add an side cleat". There is another 43 in the group of 9 as wll as a 45 so I'm not setting a precedent but the other 2 are along the end fingers which are extended (at owners cost).

I did my checking as best as possible and I'm assuming this overhang will not be a big deal not as it relates to the marina ownership bc I kinda own it, but from the perspective of a boater and safe docking. Am I right?
 
It would be sideways off the back. So it would add another 4'. But does it matter if it's not in the water?
 
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Luke-44 said:
So many good points here, the main concern I have being the dock length. My assigned slip is 35' long. It's a unique situation, 10 slips and I am a deeded 1/10 owner of the slips, a slip owners association jointly owned by the adjacent lots. Bylaws say nothing about length only width (15' I'll be at 13'8) it's a U shaped layout, faces east, entry/slip approach is straight in and almost always glass smooth.

I have been asking around about the overhang, my possible baby being 38' at the waterline. Best I've been able to get is "you'll overhang but you should be OK" or "worst case is you may need to add a 5' floater extension off the end" or "you may need to add an side cleat". There is another 43 in the group of 9 as wll as a 45 so I'm not setting a precedent but the other 2 are along the end fingers which are extended (at owners cost).

I did my checking as best as possible and I'm assuming this overhang will not be a big deal not as it relates to the marina ownership bc I kinda own it, but from the perspective of a boater and safe docking. Am I right?
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Now the whole equation just changed. The boat you believe is 45', how much does it go beyond the finger? You cannot trust the model representation to size. There's as much as 10' difference in two boats called by the same type model number.

Now, do boats there dock stern in or bow in?

There should be some documents laying out the rules of the docks, by laws or association rules. I would definitely check those. It can come back to haunt you. I'm use to seeing allowance for 5' overhang and no more. The fact you own the slip, doesn't mean you're not subject to whatever the stated rules are. The fact they've tolerated longer, doesn't mean suddenly someone won't get upset and insist rules are inforced. The 45 could easily be only 41' hull itself and a 43' can be 48' by the time you add swim platform and bow pulpit.

As to width, is there any padding or protection within the slip. Are you working off an actual slip measurement vs. a plan or document? I ask simply because I've seen a lot of slips wider or narrower than stated. Now, the good news is that beam is measured at the widest point, so at the height of a slip, you don't have the boat width as much as the beam.
 
Luke-44 said:
It would be sideways off the back. So it would add another 4'. But does it matter if it's not in the water?
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Everything extending outside the slip matters. What is the depth of the water to and around the slips? What is the draft of the boat you're considering?
 
Greetings,
Mr. 44. The more specific information dribbles in, the more I'm tempted to talk you out of a trawler style vessel.
-Sheltered waters fairly close by.
-Short overnight trips.
-Entertaining on board with space for friends and family.

You did NOT mention but being in a similar situation ie: living on waterfront property, multiple afternoon/evening cruises. As mentioned, a LOT easier to throw off the lines and go in a 32' boat than a 45'er.

That being briefly said, you may make better use of a boat like a Searay, Bayliner or similar. Yes, gas powered.
 
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