Interest in cruising the rest of Alaska?

[firehoser75]

COVID permitting, I'm planning to do a flotilla like in past years. We'll drop the group in Sitka or Juneau and then try to get over to Prince William Sound ourselves.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you, especially the trip to Prince William Sound.
Oh, and by the way, congrats on the new boat

 

[eheffa]

After an all too short tour of Prince William Sound on a cruise ship in 2007, I have dreamed of taking a longer time touring the area in our own boat: (Nordic Tug 37)

We’ve been to SE Alaska & hope to return with more time in hand but Prince William Sound beckons.

My biggest concern in considering a trip there has been the open water crossing from Cape Spencer to Prince William Sound.

Our longest non-stop crossing to date has been Shearwater to Rose Harbour on South Moresby ~ 125 Nm. With full fuel tanks, we have a range ~ 900 Nm at 7.5 Kts so even with some adverse current etc we should have adequate reserves. Pushing the stick a bit would allow 8.5 - 9 Kts with less reserve but might reduce the time of exposure.

Which strategy is better?

This thread has helped put the prospect of that crossing into perspective. It sounds do-able with a good weather window and lots of time in hand so as to not feel pressured to go by any particular deadline.

How difficult is it to find decent anchorages in PW Sound? We have 115m (~ 375 ft) of chain so can tolerate some deeper anchorages but I’m guessing that these fjords could be quite challenging.

 

[twistedtree]

It’s just one data point, actually two, but we crossed up and back in 2017.

Heading up, which is really more west than north, we departed from Bartlett Cove with a plan to run straight to Hinchenbrook entrance, then anchor once in PWS. I remember looking at the weather and telling my wife we should depart NOW because it looked like we had a good window.

It was an absolutely lovey run, and the not-dark nights are a real treat. When we were approaching Hinchinbrook the conditions we so nice that we decided to continue on outside PWS direct the Seward.

Returning was much the same. We stayed inside PWS near Hinchinbrook for departure, and when conditions were good, off we went intending to duck back into SE at the first opportunity. It was another lovely run, and this time we decided to just keep on going all the way to Sitka.

So it can actually be a really nice run if you can wait and pick your window. In fact I think those two runs were our most pleasant off shore runs of all we have done.

 

[AlaskaProf]

After an all too short tour of Prince William Sound on a cruise ship in 2007, I have dreamed of taking a longer time touring the area in our own boat: (Nordic Tug 37)
This thread has helped put the prospect of that crossing into perspective. It sounds do-able with a good weather window and lots of time in hand so as to not feel pressured to go by any particular deadline.

How difficult is it to find decent anchorages in PW Sound? We have 115m (~ 375 ft) of chain so can tolerate some deeper anchorages but I’m guessing that these fjords could be quite challenging.

Anchorages won't be the problem they are in BC. your rode should be just fine.

 

[ksanders]

Think about the trip like this...

There is only one overnight run you have to make, just one.

And... You don’t even need to make that into a real overnight if you stop in Icy Bay.

21 hours or 27 hours, your choice. Do it on a nice day.

You can even do it for the most part in daylight. All you have to do is leave a bit before dawn.

There is probably not a boat owner here on TF that could not do it in their boat with a little thought.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I had to think about that for minute....yes the Date line is jogged to keep it in the same time zone. The entire state is on one time zone. It can get weird the farther west you go.

I remember when Alaska had 4 or 5 time zones.

Another fun fact: If Alaska was split in two, Texas would be the 3rd largest State in the Union. At low tide Texas would be the 4th. (Texans are a little sensitive to these facts).

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Think about the trip like this...

There is only one overnight run you have to make, just one.

And... You don’t even need to make that into a real overnight if you stop in Icy Bay.

21 hours or 27 hours, your choice. Do it on a nice day.

You can even do it for the most part in daylight. All you have to do is leave a bit before dawn.

There is probably not a boat owner here on TF that could not do it in their boat with a little thought.

Thanks for the post. You make it seem doable. We have only done one trip with distance like this. S.F. to the Columbia River Bar. 720 sm. 3 days and 2 nights straight. So the run from Elfin Cover to PWS doesn't seem that long.

 

[rslifkin]

There is probably not a boat owner here on TF that could not do it in their boat with a little thought.

Based on the numbers going around, that seems like it's probably the case. Weather planning would be a concern for a lot of the boats here, but given an appropriate weather window, it's do-able.



Doing the numbers for my own boat, to keep things conservative with less than perfect weather and a bit of opposing current, let's figure 6 kts and 1 nmpg average. It would be a long run, but possible. With 300 gallons of usable fuel (leaving the other 120 as reserve), Yakutat to Cordova would be easy enough and would possibly enable getting up on plane once inside Hinchinbrook to save a few hours, depending on fuel burn up to that point. If we stayed slow the whole time, Valdez would be in range. Whitter would just barely be, and Seward would require averaging a little better than 1 nmpg to burn under 300 gallons, so I'd call that one probably not viable unless we had a dead calm weather window with minimal opposing current.


Of course, as much as this trip sounds like something I'd love to do, I'm on the wrong side of the country, so there are many others that would come first. And realistically, I think getting my boat to the starting point would be a bigger problem than actually doing the trip, so it's not a trip for this boat anyway.

 

[BandB]

. With full fuel tanks, we have a range ~ 900 Nm at 7.5 Kts so even with some adverse current etc we should have adequate reserves. Pushing the stick a bit would allow 8.5 - 9 Kts with less reserve but might reduce the time of exposure.

Which strategy is better?

I'd recommend a combination generally and that is taking the first half of the trip at 7.5 knots for maximum range. Then you know you're safe on fuel and can speed up the second half. Also, could at any point up to midway turn around and return to your starting point at a higher speed. Even with all our fuel usage equipment and calculations we prefer to be conservative for half the run and then know we are clearly safe fuel wise.

 

[Rob]

We spent over thirty years in Alaska with no regrets. I’ve know Captain Kevin Sanders for more than a couple of decades, not only is he full of Alaskan knowledge, he’s a top rank electronics/communications technician!
In our many years up north we explored extensively thru out Prince William Sound all the way to the southern end of Puget Sound in our Willard 40PH and in our current boat a Kadey-Krogen 42. Our travels include five trips across the Gulf of Alaska, of which I can assure you is a long crossing in a 7 knot boat and always an adventure. Currently we reside in the PNW And have made a couple of trips back north since we moved down here, but in the back of my mind I’m always being called to cruise north again!

 

[BandB]

You can even do it for the most part in daylight. All you have to do is leave a bit before dawn.

.

Good point on timing both weather and daylight. In Seward, in August, you only have 2 to 6 hours of real darkness. I'll choose August 10 as an example. This year nautical twilight was 3:41 AM - 12:25 AM so only 3 hrs 16 min of real darkness. Start around 2 AM and you have 22 hours of light in which to make the trip.

We ran from Haines to Valdez starting at noon on June 30, 2014 and arriving in Valdez at 10:00 AM on July 2. 46 hours, 550 nm. We never saw any real darkness. Official sunset and sunrise gave sunrise around 4:15 AM and Sunset around 11:25 PM but all the rest was twilight. Now we didn't have to run such a long trip, could easily have broken it down into more manageable runs. Similarly on July 12 we left Kodiak at 2:00 PM for Sitka where we arrived at 6:00 PM on the 14th, 52 hours, 620 nm. Official Day Length in Sitka was 17 hours but all the rest was twilight. So we had 38 hours of daylight and 14 hours of twilight.

Now we were lucky, but never faced any rough seas either, maximum winds about 10-12 knots.

 

[eheffa]

Anchorages won't be the problem they are in BC. your rode should be just fine.

Thank you professor.

Very helpful.

- evan

 

[eheffa]

I'd recommend a combination generally and that is taking the first half of the trip at 7.5 knots for maximum range. Then you know you're safe on fuel and can speed up the second half. Also, could at any point up to midway turn around and return to your starting point at a higher speed. Even with all our fuel usage equipment and calculations we prefer to be conservative for half the run and then know we are clearly safe fuel wise.

Thank you BandB

That makes perfect sense.

 

[Rob]

Just a thought about cruising beyond SE AK. There should be some concern about your insurance when cruising Alaskan waters, seems that some insurance providers require that at a bare minimum you need a rider just to cruise to SE AK. Let alone beyond that! The first time that I took off across the Gulf of Alaska an thought that my insurance was just fine because the boat was already home ported in Petersburg. Wrong! My insurance was void when I went 25 miles beyond Cape Spencer. When you head outside of Cape Spencer Into the Gulf of Alaska. help is a long ways off as the USCG station might be over three hundred miles away! There is NO Boat tow for you to call, in fact you might not even see or hear another boat for a day or two. You might just be truely on your own. Most people from the lower 48 really are surprised to so remote without much assistance around every corner. The gulf of Alaska is not the same as being in SE Ak!

 

[trawlercap]

i remember when alaska had 4 or 5 time zones.

Another fun fact: If alaska was split in two, texas would be the 3rd largest state in the union. At low tide texas would be the 4th. (texans are a little sensitive to these facts).

 

[trawlercap]

After an all too short tour of Prince William Sound on a cruise ship in 2007, I have dreamed of taking a longer time touring the area in our own boat: (Nordic Tug 37)

We’ve been to SE Alaska & hope to return with more time in hand but Prince William Sound beckons.

My biggest concern in considering a trip there has been the open water crossing from Cape Spencer to Prince William Sound.

Our longest non-stop crossing to date has been Shearwater to Rose Harbour on South Moresby ~ 125 Nm. With full fuel tanks, we have a range ~ 900 Nm at 7.5 Kts so even with some adverse current etc we should have adequate reserves. Pushing the stick a bit would allow 8.5 - 9 Kts with less reserve but might reduce the time of exposure.

Which strategy is better?

This thread has helped put the prospect of that crossing into perspective. It sounds do-able with a good weather window and lots of time in hand so as to not feel pressured to go by any particular deadline.

How difficult is it to find decent anchorages in PW Sound? We have 115m (~ 375 ft) of chain so can tolerate some deeper anchorages but I’m guessing that these fjords could be quite challenging.

Mindset, If your going to make the jump, you need perspective. You have to ready your self, you boat and crew for a passage. It's way different then cruising. The best cruising you could ever image is in your future, after a successful passage. But for now, your coming up coming passage is all you'll have to think about.
All the cruising, lazy afternoons, BBQ's are over for now. It's game time, you check and re-check your boat and list. Have any crew that is timid flyout to meet you at your destination. Seasickness not a reason to scrub a mission. Unless they become dehydrated, then it gets serious, if they tend that way, don't bring them along. A helicopter rescue is not fun. Do all you can to prepare, focus only on the goal. Ditch your cruiser friends, they have a different mindset.
If the weather is unfavorable, get away from the frigging dock, find a spot close to your exit and anchor... alone and keep watching. Work you plan... No reason to be anxious, your snug and you have a plan, your ready, just wait for the window then haul ass! You're in control of your actions. No one to egg you on or hold you back. I hate traveling with another boat. No two boats travel the same, they will leave you or hold you back. It's your gig, work it. Do not look back at land when you stick your nose out and start bucking around. Currents pouring in and out of inlets can make some lousy conditions the first few hours. Believe it or not only look ahead, you're done with the place behind you for a while, say thanks and get rolling. You have to look for your next landfall, looking back beckons you to turn around.
Get the boat humming, eliminate any noise like clinking or stuff rolling around. No clunking clinking noises from crap rolling around. Is a great feeling to have a boat quietly doing what it's designed to do. If my boat is quiet in 25 kts. of wind, it should be quiet in 70, or I will hear anything new. If something is rolling around, and the water turns bad, that annoyance can become dangerous if you try to chase it down. Turn up the music, don't wear earbuds, put the crew to bed, have them watch movies or get something to eat, staring into a big gray nothing can make you all anxious.
If you tend towards seasickness, do not eat drugs or stupid bands or anything from West Marine.. Eat apples, only. No coffee, bacon, nothing. Puking tastes just like warm applesauce...then have another apple...I kid you not, it's not bad...
Everything is good, your on track, you got this, but it's a mind game, just keep it going, you're in a waiting game. Boring as hell sometimes, but you got a goal, and you're eating up the miles. Watch changes may only time you see anyone else. It's OK you're not cruising for pleasure, you have a passage to make. Getting it done is not exciting or glamorous, it may have a few miserable hours. But your mindset will determine the success and build your confidence to make further trips.

Using new or newly honed skills will increase your boating pleasure. One of the best sailors I ever knew said
"Jack, never fear going to sea, land is the danger to your boat.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Mindset, Have any crew that is timid flyout to meet you at your destination.

Best advice in this whole thread. My wife has done this twice in recent years. Both times, conditions were extremely mild, but still glad we did it. Just one thing to not worry about.


Actually kinda cool to pull into Prince Rupert and see her standing there on the dock.

 

[ksanders]

We spent over thirty years in Alaska with no regrets. I’ve know Captain Kevin Sanders for more than a couple of decades, not only is he full of Alaskan knowledge, he’s a top rank electronics/communications technician!
In our many years up north we explored extensively thru out Prince William Sound all the way to the southern end of Puget Sound in our Willard 40PH and in our current boat a Kadey-Krogen 42. Our travels include five trips across the Gulf of Alaska, of which I can assure you is a long crossing in a 7 knot boat and always an adventure. Currently we reside in the PNW And have made a couple of trips back north since we moved down here, but in the back of my mind I’m always being called to cruise north again!

Rob!!! Nice to hear from you!!

I heard you were looking for a KK42, it looks like you found a good one!

Are you planning on coming North? We would really enjoy catching up over a cold one!

 

[eheffa]

Just a thought about cruising beyond SE AK. There should be some concern about your insurance when cruising Alaskan waters, seems that some insurance providers require that at a bare minimum you need a rider just to cruise to SE AK. Let alone beyond that! The first time that I took off across the Gulf of Alaska an thought that my insurance was just fine because the boat was already home ported in Petersburg. Wrong! My insurance was void when I went 25 miles beyond Cape Spencer. When you head outside of Cape Spencer Into the Gulf of Alaska. help is a long ways off as the USCG station might be over three hundred miles away! There is NO Boat tow for you to call, in fact you might not even see or hear another boat for a day or two. You might just be truely on your own. Most people from the lower 48 really are surprised to so remote without much assistance around every corner. The gulf of Alaska is not the same as being in SE Ak!

Our insurance package does not cover us for cruising 'West of Cape Spencer'. We would have to negotiate a separate rider for a trip to PWS. (Eminently do-able I expect.)

The above wording was an issue for us when we were in Alaska though as parts of Glacier Bay are West of Cape Spencer and by the time our broker got back to us to clarify whether we would be covered in Glacier Bay our window of opportunity was past.

 

[trawlercap]

Best advice in this whole thread. My wife has done this twice in recent years. Both times, conditions were extremely mild, but still glad we did it. Just one thing to not worry about.


Actually kinda cool to pull into Prince Rupert and see her standing there on the dock.

After at least 25 summers in Ak. waters, my wife is done with passage making...

 

[AlaskaProf]

insurance limits west of Cape Scott

When I went to Seward in '18, I extended my coverage to include Alaska to Kodiak. No charge for the rider.

 

[EyeOnAlaska]

We just bought a 32' Cruiser in Seattle that we'll be bringing up next spring to home port in Seward. Going to have to figure out how to get extra gas on-board to make the run from Yakutat to Cordova. I'm researching as much information as I possibly can over the winter.

 

[ksanders]

We just bought a 32' Cruiser in Seattle that we'll be bringing up next spring to home port in Seward. Going to have to figure out how to get extra gas on-board to make the run from Yakutat to Cordova. I'm researching as much information as I possibly can over the winter.

On one boat I used 30 gallon drums. If you go to Seward and see a 3488 Bayliner parked just at the bottom of the ramp for J dock you will see the folding Eyes that I installed in the cockpit for four of these.

 

[EyeOnAlaska]

On one boat I used 30 gallon drums. If you go to Seward and see a 3488 Bayliner parked just at the bottom of the ramp for J dock you will see the folding Eyes that I installed in the cockpit for four of these.

I'll look for it next time I'm down there. I've been wondering if one of those pickup truck transfer tanks might work as well--if the structure on the back deck could handle the extra weight. I'd really like to put on another 150 gallons if feasible.

 

[ksanders]

I'll look for it next time I'm down there. I've been wondering if one of those pickup truck transfer tanks might work as well--if the structure on the back deck could handle the extra weight. I'd really like to put on another 150 gallons if feasible.

Thats doable, but I would want to spread out the weight on the deck and certainly not put it up high.

Also onn a 32’ cruiser you are probably covering up the engine access with something you cannot move. If you have an engine problem you are done for.

 

[ksanders]

After an all too short tour of Prince William Sound on a cruise ship in 2007, I have dreamed of taking a longer time touring the area in our own boat: (Nordic Tug 37)

We’ve been to SE Alaska & hope to return with more time in hand but Prince William Sound beckons.

My biggest concern in considering a trip there has been the open water crossing from Cape Spencer to Prince William Sound.

Our longest non-stop crossing to date has been Shearwater to Rose Harbour on South Moresby ~ 125 Nm. With full fuel tanks, we have a range ~ 900 Nm at 7.5 Kts so even with some adverse current etc we should have adequate reserves. Pushing the stick a bit would allow 8.5 - 9 Kts with less reserve but might reduce the time of exposure.

Which strategy is better?

This thread has helped put the prospect of that crossing into perspective. It sounds do-able with a good weather window and lots of time in hand so as to not feel pressured to go by any particular deadline.

How difficult is it to find decent anchorages in PW Sound? We have 115m (~ 375 ft) of chain so can tolerate some deeper anchorages but I’m guessing that these fjords could be quite challenging.

The topography of Prince William Sound anchorages are glacial carved bays with stream runoff carrying gravel to form a shelf near the stream mouth.

Many anchorages go from around a hundred feet deep to around 20 feet deep or less in a VERY small distance.

Anchoring techniques vary, with some boats mostly smaller boats anchoring on the extremely shallow plain near the stream mouths. That is an effective technique as it is a good gravel base, but scary for me. Swing room gets tight, and we have ten foot tides. You can find yourself on the hard really fast if you make a mistake.

I prefer to anchor deeper, with a typical spot for us being in the 60-150’ depth range. It is pretty rare for us to find anything much shallower without risking swinging onto a low tide gravel flat.

Most anchorages have very little wind since you are surrounded by huge mountains, and are in the back of bays. this makes a 3:1 scope feasible in a pinch. I prefer a longer scope but you are playing the swing radius game with shore close on at least two sides.

 

[EyeOnAlaska]

Agree. The weight up high would be far from ideal. I'm also looking at collapsible bladder tanks, but dang, they're expensive.

 

[trawlercap]

We just bought a 32' Cruiser in Seattle that we'll be bringing up next spring to home port in Seward. Going to have to figure out how to get extra gas on-board to make the run from Yakutat to Cordova. I'm researching as much information as I possibly can over the winter.

32' Gillnet boats are shipped on top of barges bound for AK. every spring. Look close you can see a lot of big stuff on top. I've seen mining haul trucks up there!

 

[eheffa]

The topography of Prince William Sound anchorages are glacial carved bays with stream runoff carrying gravel to form a shelf near the stream mouth.

Many anchorages go from around a hundred feet deep to around 20 feet deep or less in a VERY small distance.

Anchoring techniques vary, with some boats mostly smaller boats anchoring on the extremely shallow plain near the stream mouths. That is an effective technique as it is a good gravel base, but scary for me. Swing room gets tight, and we have ten foot tides. You can find yourself on the hard really fast if you make a mistake.

I prefer to anchor deeper, with a typical spot for us being in the 60-150’ depth range. It is pretty rare for us to find anything much shallower without risking swinging onto a low tide gravel flat.

Most anchorages have very little wind since you are surrounded by huge mountains, and are in the back of bays. this makes a 3:1 scope feasible in a pinch. I prefer a longer scope but you are playing the swing radius game with shore close on at least two sides.

Thanks for your comments ksanders.

There are many similar anchorages up & down the BC Coast & SE Alaska. Shoaling waters at the head of a fjord near a River or creek can be just good enough but quite tricky. ( examples like Kynoch Inlet, or the West end of Ford’s Terror come to mind.)
The rapidly shoaling ground makes it tricky to find the Goldilocks spot: Deep enough, but not so deep that the necessary scope puts you on the hard at low tide. It also means you want an anchor that bites and sets right where you put it, but we don’t need to go there in this thread ;-)

It sounds like conditions in PWS might be similar to those on the West Coast further South?

 

[DDW]

View attachment 111600

Alaska is big, but not THAT big. You've got big distortion there due to the mercator projection. This link is a more accurate overlay.