Kilz primer

[Poach]

Does anyone have any experience using Kilz water based primer in a marine application? I have some wood that has developed a bit of "nose" and want to seal it before I repaint it.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

On the epoxy fiberglass skiffs that I have built, the FG distributor told me years ago to use Kilz 2 over the epoxy. 7 or 8 boats later, never a problem. Used on hull and interior. I wouldn't hesitate to use it anywhere aboard a boat.

 

[Brooksie]

Inside maybe.

Story: My friend & I were buildin a 30' downeast boat. He had an expert that designed it, made the molds, helped put the planks on, and stopped by each morning with detailed instructions what to do each day for a year. Nearing completion, the hull was ready for primer b/4 caulking. "Go get 2 gallons of Pettit #xxx primer and apply a coat, get in all the seams too" says the old timer. After he left for the day, my friend, looking at his stock of paint saw he had Kiltz primer of some kind and thinking of the 2 hrs it would take to get the Pettit #xxx, he decided to use it instead. The following morning, comes the old timer to inspect and impart the next step or demonstrate driving the caulking. Taking a whiff of the hull says "I'll be back next week when you have this all sanded off and the Pettit #xxx on" and walked out.

 

[psneeld]

use it a lot as several others here do...seems to work good from bilges to lockers to even outside stuff..all without a topcoat. Exterior, I don't know how long it will last but a year so far on junk projects seems to show no bad signs.

 

[Duvie]

Brooksi, sounds like your friend used the original kilz. That is shellac based. My grandfather always said use shellac in an oily environment such as in the engine space and use oil based in water environments. Kilz 2 is a water based product and will probably have totally different characteristics than oil or shellac products. I have not been impressed with the Kilz 2 as far as it's stain blocking characteristics on sheetrock and have no other experience with it.

 

[Brooksie]

Brooksi, sounds like your friend used the original kilz. That is shellac based. My grandfather always said use shellac in an oily environment such as in the engine space and use oil based in water environments. Kilz 2 is a water based product and will probably have totally different characteristics than oil or shellac products. I have not been impressed with the Kilz 2 as far as it's stain blocking characteristics on sheetrock and have no other experience with it.

It could have been Kilz or BIN I don't remember but the moral of the story is: if you have an expert helping you, and he tells you what to do, do it...

 

[MVNoPlans]

More than a few "old timers" have trouble accepting new products and this is not always based upon rationality or experience; sometimes is just stubbornness. My wooden boat lives in the water and I frequently use Kilz 2 or BIN on projects. Never a problem with it.

 

[Chris K]

Hey, hey , hey. What this with putting us old timers down! 30+ years of experience , through those years trying so many of the new products with less than expected results, and then it dawns on you------- this particular product works!!!!!! So why might I ask ---- would I change----? Experience MATTERS.
As a residential home improvement contractor since before nail guns, I can tell you the guns are faster, but the nails don't last as long or hold as well. Just put a 16d hot galvanized nail next to a named brand galvanized stick nail and you will see. Not saying that epoxy isn't better than resorcinol, or that some of today's products don't out perform products of old. But.................if it works, than it just plain and simple works. Keep it simple.

 

[psneeld]

First of all....not putting old timers down...read more closely...I was pointing out that they mostly know the facts and they probably don't listen to the drivel of a internet/part time boater who never drifts from the center..

Experience matters? Good experience matters..I teach and deal with bothers every day who before they even say hello the total crappola comes forth...." I 've been boating my whole life and this has never happened to me" or "I'm in the middle of the channel"...sure ....till you just look past their boat and see they are at least 20 feet outside of it.

But back to your post....it's not about new or old...it's about how we can all enjoy boating that we like, on boats we like, on the budgets (time and money) we have...how to continue cruises safely without having to pull into a town with the best chandlery in the country or detour to a boatyard that specializes in something.

Most people stay mainstream because it's safe...then they start reading forums like this and see people who have experimented and can show that there are safe, reasonable alternatives to the "traditional". Sure some "non-standard" stuff doesn't last as long or needs an extra safety precaution or two...but it doesn't mean others don't do it that way and go their merry way. So supporting contrary ideas to me is just fine...it's also fine that after enough opposing ideas and few supporting to just come out and say...hey...probably not a great idea. But when the "you cant do it that way" posts are #2 or #3 and without anything more than "you'll never see that in a West marine" or boating mag as support...it just makes me cringe.

 

[Rogerh]

So, to the subject... The general consensus is, Kilz works well? Use it in the bilge and it works as good as bilgecoat?

 

[LaBomba]

I have used both the water and oil based Kilz. If you have to cover any stains the tannins in the stain or knots will bleed through the water based primer and the water based paint if used. I thought at first I will just give it another coat, NOT, it will continue to bleed through. If no stains or knots then the water based works fine and dries quicker and is easier to clean up after, IMO.

 

[Rogerh]

does the oil based prevent the stains from bleeding through?

 

[bayview]

I hate kilz water or oil both. if you want to seal in an odor shellac primers seal in odors and stains. Never tried petit product but
Zinsser brand at home depot is my go to problem solver on wood or drywall.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I use B-I-N.

It's a Zinsser Co product. A shellac based tintable coating that brushes really nice. Says "indoor and spot sealer" on the can. Was recommended by our paint store and we used it on a "trellace" in the garden. Works really well there on old wood out in all the weather so I don't know about the "interior" note on the outside of the can. If you're interested you could call them and ask. They say it will cover and hide black wood damaged by fire, knots in wood, crayon ect. Their web address I think is Zinsser® Brand Page. Can't tell for sure as part of it is hidden by a drool .... of the product.

 

[bayview]

Yes that is the stuff BIN

Alcohol based so ventilation is needed.

 

[LaBomba]

does the oil based prevent the stains from bleeding through?

Yes it does, definitely!

 

[MVNoPlans]

The oil and shellac primers do a better job of sealing tannins but can take a coat or two. Since it dries fast even in a damp area, that is no hardship. I am finding after many years of being around coatings that solvents bother me more, therefore I use water based when I can.
Now as for using it in the bilge, it must be noted that it is only a primer, not a top coat. When I painted my bilge, which was unpainted 50 year old wood, I used the oil based BIN primer and top coated with Bilge Coat. That worked well.
I agree with PSNEELD, lotsa people been doing things for many years, but I never simply assume that alone means they have been doing it the best way

 

[bayview]

Since your bilge is likely to have some residual oil I would not use water based primer.

 

[jimbob]

Yes that is the stuff BIN

Alcohol based so ventilation is needed.

CAN'T USE ALCOHOL ON A BOAT:bang head: OH SORRY WRONG THREAD

 

[CPseudonym]

I'll be using water based Killz2 for my bilge. I anticipate no top coating. Not the yachtiest (is that a word?) finish but good enough until I get more ambition.

 

[psneeld]

I'll be using water based Killz2 for my bilge. I anticipate no top coating. Not the yachtiest (is that a word?) finish but good enough until I get more ambition.

I used the water based stuff with minimal prep and it seems to be doing fine...it is a primer so it's designed to handle some issues with less than perfect preparation.

If there's enough oil...nothing will stick including enamel, poly or epoxy based.

It does get smudges dirty pretty easily...then again so do a lot of paints...I'm still working down there a lot so I haven't really tried to clean it up yet.

 

[CPseudonym]

It does get smudges dirty pretty easily...then again so do a lot of paints...I'm still working down there a lot so I haven't really tried to clean it up yet.

I figure it won't be the last time I head down there with a paint brush.

Nifty looking selfie you're sporting in your avatar, about how I pictured you

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CP. I'm using Devoe 2 part water based epoxy for inside lockers (freshen up) and bilge coating. Minimal odor and easy clean up. Actually spraying a good part of it. Gloss finish and sticks like poop to a kid's blanket. Pre-clean with TSP and rinse well with water. Any residual water will have no effect on paint (since IT is water based).

 

[CPseudonym]

Devoe High Perfomance Coatings | Protective Coatings North America

Thanks RT, is it listed in the link above by any chance?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CP. I think it's the WB 4428. I had it tinted to grey. Devoe High Perfomance Coatings | Protective Coatings North America

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hi Craig,
A topcoat would make it much much easier to clean and quite important when more coatings are wanted. One would want to remove as much oil, grease and other slime as possible then.

 

[CPseudonym]

Thanks Eric, She's pretty much oil/grease free but for some reason the previous owner decided to paint the entire ER and bilge with flat black spray paint, easy way out I suppose. Tough to fault the PO on something that was a personal preference though, rest of the boat is mostly top notch. My mechanical systems are appropriately painted but working down there is akin to standing on a performing arts stage as the light never reflects.

After painting my plan is to under light everything down below with LED strips as part of rewiring the entire boat. Bunch of other projects too that should make for a full and interesting winter of maintenance and upgrades. Aggressive schedule but no more dark places for me.