List of “good” inverters please

[DDW]

I have a Magnum, Mastervolt, and Victron in different boats and vehicles. Both the Mastervolt and Victron are at least a generation beyond the Magnum, perhaps two.

Whether idle current is a problem depends on whether idle current is a problem. If you are running your genset all afternoon in the anchorage, then probably not a problem. I don't and I want to leave the inverter on all the time, power just like home. If the idle power is 34 watts like the Magnum, that's 65 AH over 24 hours. As much as the refrigerator, doing nothing at all. On my similarly spec'd Mastervolt, idle power (at full inverting output) is 6 watts. On the Victron 9 watts. The Xantrex Prosine I used to have used so much idle power the fans would power up in it occasionally while idle just to keep it cool.

Both the Victron and Mastervolt are silent, until inverting at high power, then the cooling fans come on which are barely audible. The Magnum hums too loud to sleep. I have to shut it off, which does solve the idle power problem ;(. Its battery monitor electronics live on the battery side of the shunt and so doesn't account for it's own draw. Nothing you say? In a month of storage, 61 AH unaccounted for. It's just not up to the standards of the Dutch units.

 

[Sea Word]

Interesting. Boy I’m glad I posted this query. What an avalanche of pertinent info coming! You’d think they would all steal each others good ideas and stay competitive but I guess not.

 

[BruceK]

That’s a great point, we don’t have any windlass now but it’s on the list of installations planned. We also don’t have a generator and I was debating wether I would install one at all. But your note on that draw makes me wonder if that is a bad idea, or if I should just rely on main engine for extra juice during anchoring sessions, which would be reasonable too since I’d only be dropping or pulling it with mains running I suspect. But I’ll plan on a little bigger house bank for that reason as well.

We run our mains when retrieving, but from around 50ft, not from the depth Sunchaser may encounter. Our windlass draws about 120A. We usually run the genset during retrieve,really because the washdown pump is 240v not 12v.I won`t necessarily have the charger on but I have, and my modest panel array contributes too.
On your other thread, as you`ve space for 1200watts of panel and want to avoid genset use,fit them. That`s a theoretical 100A max per charging hour with good sun. I never see the max from mine,I expect around 50%, anything better is a bonus. With that much panel you might consider a Honda 2000 gas generator, avoiding a built diesel one. But, I like my diesel genset.

 

[OldDan1943]

So after all these recommendations and advice, we can reasonable conclude,
"Whatever fulfills your needs and works for you." That is pretty much the way life works in general. SMILE

 

[syjos]

I had a Magnum 2812 experience a melt down causing extensive damage to my boat in 2016. We were on a dock, Big Bay BC with no electricity, no AC devices running and we were asleep. Woke up to the smoke detector and the smell of smoke around 3 am. Boat was full of smoke that smelled like burning plastic. Though there were no flames coming out of the inverter, sparks, hot air and smoke was pouring out of the inverters grill. The inverter had not shut down or melted the fuse. I had to undo the cable at the battery to shut the unit down. It took several minutes for the inverter to stop sputtering. The exterior paint had burned off and the exterior was black..

Spent three days cleaning the boat at Squirrell Cove BC. The entire salon was covered in sticky black soot. We fortunately had a back up inverter hooked up so switching over was easy.

The Magnum inverter was still on warranty so I contacted Magnum and they said to bring it in. Magnum tech said he had never heard of one of their inverters self destruct like that. He asked questions about the size and length of the battery cable, size of fuse, size of battery bank and my installation experience. When I told him that I sold and installed inverters and I was a Magnum dealer, he backed off.

Took the inverter to Magnum in Lynnwood. Instead of going into the Magnum building, the tech told me to wait for him in the parking lot. He came out with a boxed replacement inverter and took mine into the building. I opened the replacement inverters box and the inverter had a dent on the top of the case. When the tech came out with my paperwork I pointed out the dent. He explained that warranty replacement inverters are "Remanufactured" and showed me the label identifying it as a reman. I raised a fuss since I used my inverter as a demo with clients and how was I going to explain to the client why I was demoeing a remanufactured inverter with a dent. They gave me a different undented remanufactured inverter. The tech said again that Magnum has not had any meltdowns on inverters and mine was the only one. I asked about the consequential damage to my boat and the tech refered me up the ladder to a manager, who aftrr a week of emails agreed to cover the damage repair.

A month later, I was walking across the parking lot at my yacht club, when I see a member loading a burnt up inverter into his truck. He had the same meltdown happen to him while boating. He had spoken to Magnum and of course they said that his was the first to experience a meltdown. We compared notes and the serial number on his inverter was about 50 units older than mine and installed within 6 months of each other. His was installed by an ABYC certified electrician.

Upon researching the internet, found several more instances of 2812 meltdowns on boats and RV's.

I sold the remanufactured Magnum 2812 on Craig's List immediately, severed my ties with Magnum and began selling Victron Energy inverters, which are more advanced. I had to repaint the salon and electrical space, replace all the switches, breakers, meters and wiring that was burned, melted or smoke damaged and installed a Victron inverter along with a Victron isolation transformer. My previous transformer was not damaged but I wanted to have the Victron transformer for its features.

I bought back every Magnum 2812 that I sold to clients and replaced them with an equivalent Victron inverter at no cost to my clients. Though the inverter meltdown was not my responsibility, I would have felt really bad if a client had that happen to them. Luckily, all except two inverters were owner installed and I only had to physically swap out those two. Sold all the Magnums on Craig's List.

It took me two years to complete the repairs after the fire due to health, vacations and other complications. By that time, the Lynwood Magnum office staff had been reduced. I had to contact Sensata to file my damage repair claim. They had no record of my warranty replacement. I emailed them all the emails that had been exchanged after the meltdown, the exchange invoice, an email that Magnum had sent me promising to pay for the repair. Magnum probably did not report the meltdown to parent company Sensata or lost the files during the merge. They sent me a check after some negotiating.

 

[Sea Word]

Wow well that’s not a great review for magnum! Thanks for posting. It’s important that companies do the right thing because when we buy American that’s what we are purchasing with the extra money. If we didn’t need the extra quality and customer service that American companies provide we could just buy Chinese.

Well I found a mastervolt 24/4000 locally for 450$ so I snagged that up. It’s rated at 1w idle current, and comes with a nice remote monitor panel. More inverter than I really needed, but the price seemed great as these seem to retail for 3500+$. Also negotiating for a 1200w array that will fit on the roof, 4 panels for 640$. These are 55vdc panels, and I can wire them series/parallel to get 110v to the mppt controller. So, now I just need to figure out how to pull 12v for my appliances that require 12v.

 

[Ventana]

All I can say is "Yep".
Good on ya for making it right with your customers. I did something similar with cabin fans. Luckily I hadn't installed very many and the cost was nowhere near an inverter.

I had a Magnum 2812 experience a melt down causing extensive damage to my boat in 2016. We were on a dock, Big Bay BC with no electricity, no AC devices running and we were asleep. Woke up to the smoke detector and the smell of smoke around 3 am. Boat was full of smoke that smelled like burning plastic. Though there were no flames coming out of the inverter, sparks, hot air and smoke was pouring out of the inverters grill. The inverter had not shut down or melted the fuse. I had to undo the cable at the battery to shut the unit down. It took several minutes for the inverter to stop sputtering. The exterior paint had burned off and the exterior was black..

Spent three days cleaning the boat at Squirrell Cove BC. The entire salon was covered in sticky black soot. We fortunately had a back up inverter hooked up so switching over was easy.

The Magnum inverter was still on warranty so I contacted Magnum and they said to bring it in. Magnum tech said he had never heard of one of their inverters self destruct like that. He asked questions about the size and length of the battery cable, size of fuse, size of battery bank and my installation experience. When I told him that I sold and installed inverters and I was a Magnum dealer, he backed off.

Took the inverter to Magnum in Lynnwood. Instead of going into the Magnum building, the tech told me to wait for him in the parking lot. He came out with a boxed replacement inverter and took mine into the building. I opened the replacement inverters box and the inverter had a dent on the top of the case. When the tech came out with my paperwork I pointed out the dent. He explained that warranty replacement inverters are "Remanufactured" and showed me the label identifying it as a reman. I raised a fuss since I used my inverter as a demo with clients and how was I going to explain to the client why I was demoeing a remanufactured inverter with a dent. They gave me a different undented remanufactured inverter. The tech said again that Magnum has not had any meltdowns on inverters and mine was the only one. I asked about the consequential damage to my boat and the tech refered me up the ladder to a manager, who aftrr a week of emails agreed to cover the damage repair.

A month later, I was walking across the parking lot at my yacht club, when I see a member loading a burnt up inverter into his truck. He had the same meltdown happen to him while boating. He had spoken to Magnum and of course they said that his was the first to experience a meltdown. We compared notes and the serial number on his inverter was about 50 units older than mine and installed within 6 months of each other. His was installed by an ABYC certified electrician.

Upon researching the internet, found several more instances of 2812 meltdowns on boats and RV's.

I sold the remanufactured Magnum 2812 on Craig's List immediately, severed my ties with Magnum and began selling Victron Energy inverters, which are more advanced. I had to repaint the salon and electrical space, replace all the switches, breakers, meters and wiring that was burned, melted or smoke damaged and installed a Victron inverter along with a Victron isolation transformer. My previous transformer was not damaged but I wanted to have the Victron transformer for its features.

I bought back every Magnum 2812 that I sold to clients and replaced them with an equivalent Victron inverter at no cost to my clients. Though the inverter meltdown was not my responsibility, I would have felt really bad if a client had that happen to them. Luckily, all except two inverters were owner installed and I only had to physically swap out those two. Sold all the Magnums on Craig's List.

It took me two years to complete the repairs after the fire due to health, vacations and other complications. By that time, the Lynwood Magnum office staff had been reduced. I had to contact Sensata to file my damage repair claim. They had no record of my warranty replacement. I emailed them all the emails that had been exchanged after the meltdown, the exchange invoice, an email that Magnum had sent me promising to pay for the repair. Magnum probably did not report the meltdown to parent company Sensata or lost the files during the merge. They sent me a check after some negotiating.

 

[dutch-barge]

Victron.....for a few reasons........they can be daisy chained
they can with shore power go the additional power
a 3000VA inverter with ONE 30 amp shore can deliver an output of 60 amp when needed
Victron integrates well with their other equipment , MPPT, charges, BMV, PLUS they their management unit the CCGX or the Venus. do NOT charge a monthly fee. I have connected my bilge pumps, door alarm, smoke alarm to this Venus and I have a remote monitoring system without a monthly charge. think how much savings that will be...besides would you not like to know that the bilge pump went on. 10 minutes ago, while having dinner at home

 

[dutch-barge]

OH and GREAT service from Victron. have their equipment on both my boats

 

[Sea Word]

This thing is LARGE. As luck had it the seller was a dealer for magnum only. So they were off loading this unit. Came off a boat and the owner didn’t like having to go to the unit to reset it when it tripped from entire boat coming online which included 4 refer units and everything else. So I’m stoked because this seems like a very nice unit.

 

[syjos]

The wholesale price for the Victron 3000 watt inverter is significantly less than the Magnum 2812. And when I was exchanging clients inverters, it was my initial order with Victron and I was buying a pallet full so received additional discounts. I ended up not losing too much money.

I sleep better knowing that none of my clients have a 2812.

Magnum manufactured excellent inverters for a long time when they were independent in Lynnwood, WA. After they were purchased by Sensata, the company philosophy shifted, the inverters were manufactured elsewhere and their customer support was diminished.

 

[Sea Word]

The wholesale price for the Victron 3000 watt inverter is significantly less than the Magnum 2812. And when I was exchanging clients inverters, it was my initial order with Victron and I was buying a pallet full so received additional discounts. I ended up not losing too much money.

I sleep better knowing that none of my clients have a 2812.

Magnum manufactured excellent inverters for a long time when they were independent in Lynnwood, WA. After they were purchased by Sensata, the company philosophy shifted, the inverters were manufactured elsewhere and their customer support was diminished.

But wasn’t your faulty inverter made before they were made by sensata?

 

[syjos]

The only issue with Victron Energy is their tech support. It's difficult to contact a human. Victron wants you to; 1. Read the manual, 2. Perform a system check, 3. Contact the distributor 4. Search the Victron Community.

No option for support from Victron.

Most of the issues can be solved via the above but unusual ones require a human.

 

[syjos]

But wasn’t your faulty inverter made before they were made by sensata?

Sensata would not answer that question when asked.

Sensata acquired Dimension Inverters in 2007 and Magnum in 2014.

My inverter was installed in 2014. I don't know the build date.

 

[DDW]

I agree about Victron's tech support. It is modern, meaning community sourced. If you want a sophisticated DC system though, they have all the components, they are all networked, and it's a pretty open system.

When I called Magnum about the noise, they did answer the phone. They said, "Hum? yeah, that's what they do." I called again about the 85 ma not measured by the battery monitor and they said, "Yeah, that's how it's designed." Happier with stuff that works right so I don't need tech support.

 

[sunchaser]

Do the comments regarding Magnum inverters self ignition warrant a class action? Or is there an install issue, gotta ask?

My BMKs are installed such that idle inverter current battery draw down is measured, or so says my tech. And no, whether with VA meter or BMKs do I see much more than a 6 amp draw. Better check again.

Also, my tech says no problem communicating with Magnum. He has a hotline number though.

As already noted, years ago when my 2812 was installed Magnum was owned, located and operated by a different group than today. Shades of Xantrex management and ownership changes maybe. Who is to say Victron, Outback etc don't get caught in the same here today gone tomorrow battery power electronics trap?

BTW, I was considering a Victron isolation transformer two years ago. A large Seattle installer said they're noisy. True? I have no idea. My hearing is not too good. But I do know that transformer hum is normal in industry.

Now, off to some relevant issues. Coffee is ready.

 

[DDW]

My BMKs are installed such that idle inverter current battery draw down is measured, or so says my tech.

A correctly installed BMK will measure the idle current of the inverter. It does not measure its OWN current consumption, which is about 85 ma. That doesn't sound like much but in a month that is 63 AH.

 

[sunchaser]

A correctly installed BMK will measure the idle current of the inverter. It does not measure its OWN current consumption, which is about 85 ma. That doesn't sound like much but in a month that is 63 AH.

As an aside, it is surprising what the current draw of everything 110v plugged in will draw. For us, 63 AH in a month isn't meaningful. Genset, shore power or alternators cover it in a few minutes.

 

[DDW]

Problem is when in storage. You are down 63 AH and the meter says the battery is 100%.

 

[sunchaser]

Problem is when in storage. You are down 63 AH and the meter says the battery is 100%.

Doesn't apply to our vessel. We're plugged in at the dock 24/7, cruising or anchored overnight. The charger goes by battery bank volts so I'm not seeing an issue.

 

[Moonfish]

So you can't necessarily trust the old names.

Excellent point. So many mergers, acquisitions and take overs, you don't know who owns who anymore...

 

[syjos]

Do the comments regarding Magnum inverters self ignition warrant a class action? Or is there an install issue, gotta ask?


As already noted, years ago when my 2812 was installed Magnum was owned, located and operated by a different group than today. Shades of Xantrex management and ownership changes maybe. Who is to say Victron, Outback etc don't get caught in the same here today gone tomorrow battery power electronics trap?

BTW, I was considering a Victron isolation transformer two years ago. A large Seattle installer said they're noisy. True? I have no idea. My hearing is not too good. But I do know that transformer hum is normal in industry.

Now, off to some relevant issues. Coffee is ready.

The two inveters that experienced meltdown were installed properly by two different installers. The meltdown was internal.

Talked to a couple class action attorneys, who take class suits on contingency, and they didnt want to take it because of the small number of claimants. Not enough money for them.

A lot of companies, marine and otherwise, are merging or large companies buying the small ones.

As for the isolation transformer, they all hum. This is my third one.

First one was an Acme Electrical and it was real noisey and the output voltage drop was 5 volts or so.

Second was a Charles and less noise and less voltage drop. I keep hearing that Charles is going to discontinue manufacturers iolation transformers, but it has'nt happened yet.

Third was the Victron and hum is not minor. It's installed next to the inverter and they both hum and there is fan noise, but we don't hear them because of their installed location. Voltage drop is minimal.

 

[gsholz]

Another Magnum 2812 fire while sleeping. From the pictures it looks like one or more of the MOSFETs or capacitors shorted to ground.

Magnum Inverter Fire - iRV2 Forums

 

[Sea Word]

I think magnum will see some loss of business after this thread! I know I won’t touch them now, nor will I buy a xantrex again.

 

[syjos]

Thanks for that.

I've been trying to get the word out.

 

[syjos]

I think magnum will see some loss of business after this thread! I know I won’t touch them now, nor will I buy a xantrex again.

I hope so. I've been on a crusade to get the word out.

 

[sunchaser]

The RV thread gsholz linked should be worrisome for Magnum.

 

[diver dave]

Magnum has a lot in common with kitchenaid dishwashers. Including mine.

 

[diver dave]

I will expand a bit. My professional world includes designing industrial equipment to IEC and UL standards. I spend a fair amount of time pouring over spec documenting rqmts for fire enclosures around equipment and something called single fault analysis. Not saying magnum did not do this; but a management group that does not fix it is near criminal. Maybe it is criminal if it goes to fraud. Does this box have either a CE , Marine UL, VDE, CSA or any legit mark? If so, the fault path could lead elsewhere. UL charges many tens of thousands to perform a safety analysis. But note there are near a dozen companies that are allowed to test to UL standards. OTOH , if the box in question has NO safety marks on it, its buyer beware in the US.

 

[Sea Word]

So, now that I have my bitchen inverter, where do I mount it? I’m hesitant to mount in engine room in case moisture or smoke or something happens in there. But I’m hesitant to mount it in salon where noise, heat and apparently FIRE risk is an issue.