My list of boat pre-purchase questions

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Ralsy

Ralsy

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
214
Location
Australia
Pre-purchase 55ft trawler questions.
I have compiled a few questions to ask before signing off on a purchase contract. I have tried to think of all the usual items but am not sure if I've forgotten anything?? Can anyone think of anything else I should ask?

• How often is boat used?
• Are there any evident issues with boat?
• Engine hours?
• Generator hours?
• Last maintenance and inspection (M/I) performed date?
o Engines
o Generator
o Tender engine
• M/I performed by whom?
• Any recommended actions (from competent persons who performed inspection or maintenance) not undertaken?
• Last coolant flush and replace?
o Engines
o Generator
• Last heat exchanger clean?
• Last water pump impeller inspection?
o Engines
o Generator
• Last filter replacement on engines and generator?
o Oil
o Air
o Transmission
o Fuel
o Other
• Last oil change
o Engine
o Transmission
• Cutlass bearing inspected or changed?
• Props re-balanced?
• PSS shaft seals inspected / maintained?
• Rudder bearings inspected / replaced?
• Rudder shaft seals inspected / replaced?
• Naiad Stabilisers inspected / maintained?
o Hydraulic oil changed
o Filter replaced
o Stabiliser shaft seals replaced
• Fuel tanks inspected?
• Fuel tank material?
• Anodes replaced?
o Hull
o Rudder shaft
o Shaft & Propeller Nut Anodes
o Engine
o Other?
• What equipment stays with the boat (utensils, linen, etc)
• What spare parts are included with sale?
• What safety equipment?
• What ballast is in keel if any?
• Has the interior of keel been painted?
• Has the interior hull surfaces been painted? With what?
• Has the water maker been pickled?
o Filters changed?
• Fuel tanks inspected for corrosion?
• Fuel tanks cleaned?
• Water tank inspected / cleaned?
• Black and grey water tanks inspected and cleaned?
• Black water and grey water tanks vent lines inspected? Charcoal filters replaced?
• Last anti-foul?
• Prop-speed applied?
• Last paint detailing done? (surface treatment?)
• Batteries –
o How many batteries? For which application?
o How old?
• Charts? Electronic / paper
 
You show that list to the seller or broker and he'll push you overboard
 
The surveyor should get those answered for you, at least most of them. Nothing wrong with you asking the ones he does not.
 
Greetings,
All valid questions IMO and as Mr. r. says, a lot of which can be answered by the surveyor. You might also ask if any tools are included. Service records and/or receipts?
 
Ralsy,

With all due respect, you can ask anything you like of your potential seller or seller's agent regarding a potential purchase. I'm less than sanguine as to your probable response to your list. If I was a seller on the receiving end of such a list, my response would be "do your own due diligence, via inspection of the vessel via accredited surveyor(s), your broker, and yourself. Most of the answers to your questions will be apparent upon said inspection. Beyond that, I as a seller have no obligation to engage in such a dialog, nor any desire to do so. The boat is as you see it, with all included items aboard, and all excluded items are either off the boat, or listed in the broker's offering. And if it's included in the listing, it's warranted to "work". How well it (main engine(s), heat exchangers, bottom paint, propellor type/size, transmission, ad nauseum) "work" is for YOU to decide, either during survey or sea trial.

From my perspective as a seller, more information provided by the seller to the buyer typically does NOT lead to a satisfactory negotiation and sale of a significant powerboat (or sailboat, for that matter). It simply leads to churn and needless multi-person attempts at communication, with hurt feelings and bad outcomes as a result. As English is a slippery language, many times less is more. Presence of a maintenance log can be a help to a buyer, but often (again) leads to more churn in the process. Ditto with pages and pages of receipts. And the presence of a buyer's agent, who can and should deflect his buyer's expectations back to reality is often of great value, to both the buyer and the seller.

In addition, making yourself comfortable with a potential purchase is YOUR responsibility, not others. Others in your attempted communication loop can ease your concerns, but ultimately it's YOUR money and YOUR decision. My opinion on what you should ask your buyer to ease your angst is of absolutely no value.

Regards,

Pete
 
This is a good list for you to work off.



Not to show or present to anyone else.
 
Ralsy,
It is a wonderful world at times partly due to the diversity of opinions. You know the saying about what everyone has :)
Personally, and this is nothing against the person I am differing with, I agree with you. When I am buying a boat, I want to know the most about it I can, so I have the best chance of knowing exactly what I am buying. Fully realizing that "perfection does not exist". Yes, the survey and mechanical are important, and are the buyer's responsibility. The survey is definitely the most important tool to help with determining overall condition of the boat. However, there is alot of the more "detailed info" that cannot be determined with that method. Having a detailed maintenance log (unfortunately not that common or purposely not on board) coupled with at least a few supporting receipts (for big ticket items or parts) can really help to establish a maintenance baseline for the new owner to start from. Without some of the info you are asking for, you have to assume that all of it is due now. Pretty time consuming and costly. An example of where info can be helpful: my surveyor stated that he advises that the PYI shaft seal be replaced due to no records of when it was done. My insurance required this within 3 months (or some other relatively short time frame). The seal was not leaking and looked in excellent condition, but I don't know how long it had been since servicing and insurance mandated it, so it was serviced.

Overall since buying my boat that the surveyor stated was in the best overall condition of any boat that age that he had ever surveyed, I spent about $15,000 in the first 3 years of ownership getting her mechanicals up to what I consider a starting point as far as maintenance is concerned. I am sure, that some of what was done could have been delayed had records been available. Examples: raw water components off engine cleaned and pressures tested, new custom exhaust elbow and hose, coolant changed, new belt, idler pulley, replaced CCV system and air filter, shaft seal, cutlass bearings, rudder seal, prop serviced, alternator rebuild, new thermostat and coolant tank cap, new zincs everywhere, replaced several fuel lines and coolant hoses, new raw water pump, with similar items on the generator (sure I am forgetting some things I did).

So for me, if a seller responded to questions regarding maintenance with the answers that Peter suggested, I would walk without a survey and find a boat I liked with a more forthcoming and obliging seller. I would wonder "what is he hiding?" Maybe just me, but I doubt it.
I do not think it is unreasonable for you to attempt to "get the answers" to your questions. However, if the current owner has owned for a short while, he may not know the answers :)
What is, in my opinion unreasonable, is to expect a "discount" off of an agreed price due to some maintenance that is not up to your standards. That should have been determined prior to offer (while in the process of considering putting in an offer and not asked just for curiousity), and discounts should only be negotiated for "larger ticket" items found on survey(s).
JMHO, and to each his own. But I feel, he who has the money, is in the driver's seat (as long as he is reasonable about it).
As a seller, I would take offence if a buyer made an offer and we came to a deal, then asked all of the maintenance questions, then asked for a discount due to the maintenance, especially since I maintain my boat to a high level, and then tried for an additional discount after survey.
 
Personally, I would probably not answer all those questions. I think that you should do your own inspection before making an offer. I usually spend at least a day with a buyer of my boats and go over everything I can think of so your list would be at a minimum redundant. It also may seem like you will be a pain as a buyer and keep bugging me forever about small things after the sale. Unfortunately for you, I think that I would probably pass on selling the boat to you. Do your own inspection and have a quality survey done. Then if you have a few questions, ask away but don’t present a voluminous list of nit picky items to me. Sorry, that is just my opinion. You are buying a used boat, you need to expect that there will be things that need fixing.
 
You said "before signing off on a purchase contract" but does that mean you would ask AFTER the boat is under contract? If so, I believe you will get better / more reliable answers if you ask to see the maintenance records. Chances are they won't have a record of most of the inspections you are asking about, but your surveyor should be doing those inspections anyway. On the other hand, if you intend to ask all of that before having made an accepted offer, I suspect the seller will tell you that you are getting ahead of yourself (I know I would).
 
So, most of you seem to say that the seller has to accept a boat as is, cannot ask maintenance related questions, and should just rely on a visual by himself and his surveyor/mechanic. I admit, that they will find obvious issues, things that don't work or look suspect, but how can they tell when the alternator was rebuilt, the PYI shaft seal was serviced, etc.?
And are you saying as the buyer, you should just factor in an extensive list of maintenance (I am not talking about repairs of broken items, just preventative manufacturer recommended maintenance) into your offer price, and then just have it done, even though by asking a question, it could be determined that the alt was rebuilt last year for example? Or, is the new buyer expected to just assume all is well, unless listed by the surveyor, and just hope and wait for something to break? Other than the seller who can't be bothered or has something to hide or a lazy broker who doesn't want to do much for his commission, I don't understand it. Running systems for a few minutes and looking doesn't tell everything.
Having written maintenance records would make both parties happy I would think. Just hand the buyer the book and let him look. No answers needed, it would all be in there. Depending on the boat, there is often what I consider big money involved. For a seller to expect to obtain a good indication of what he is buying, and maintenance history is a part of that, does not seem unreasonable to me. It may however, be inconvenient for someone who has no records and/or a poor memory.

Anyway, interesting diversity of outlooks.
FYI. When I sell, there will be a complete maintenance log from when I took ownership. It makes my job of staying on top of things easier, and should give a buyer a good starting point to move forward from knowing what has happened.
 
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Just for fun, pick any one question on your list of questions. Pretend you ask a seller that one question. Lets pretend it is the question about the interior ever been painted? with what?

In good faith he answers, Yes I painted part of the interior with, I think Interlux, Topside, beige.

So, you buy the boat and somewhere down the line you buy some touch up Interlux beige, turns out he used Interlux "Beach sand". It doesn't match.

You have just made a liar out of him. Can you take him to court? Can you make him repaint it? Who knows? Nobody should care!

If someone were to ask me a litany of questions like yours I would assume he is seeking grounds for a lawsuit or claim in the future.

I guess if I was asked this number of questions I would have to shrug and murmer "I dunno".
Actually, I think I would look for another buyer. My "lawsuit radar" would be beeping up a storm.

If any of those questions are really important to you, feel free to ask one or two. On the others, figure it out yourself.

pete
 
Sidclark said:
What he said!!:D
Click to expand...
Yea, I sorta agree. Ask for if they have a maintenance log and if it's up to date. Then engage your professionals to go from there. Surveyor. Engine. Electronics. Etc. How far you go depends on the boat and the value.
 
I guess in Canada we are not quite that litigious, at least not yet.
I would not be worried about a lawsuit as long as I supplied accurate info (which my logbook would indicate - date and hours as applicable), with no guarantees as to ongoing serviceability. As is, except the buyer will know when maintenance was carried out.

Also, I don't think it is a big problem that often occurs, or brokers would be more careful with what they put into the listing info. I have never been on board a boat for sale where all of the listing info was accurate. Mistakes, often multiple with conflicting statements from one part of the listing to the other. If that went to court, I doubt their "get out of jail" statement (buyer beware) would hold up as it would show a lack of diligence on the broker. Not even "proof read". Not what a reasonably prudent person with the skills, knowledge, and ability expected of professional boat broker should do. I am not a lawyer, and I know that it varies by jurisdiction, just saying.
When people are spending 1/4 million dollars (or much more), it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that they may have a few questions to determine a good starting point when there are sooooooo many potential maintenance items/systems on a boat and observation a short run will only tell you that it works right now. I do admit, that in general terms, observations will tell you if the owner cares about his boat and looks after it or not.
Anyway, each to his/her own and interesting perspectives.
PS. As a buyer , I would only ask those types of questions if I was very serious about the boat and actually going to put in an offer.
 
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Back to that original list, Mr. OP, cheekiness aside, the way you posed the question was perhaps unclear to me.

yes those are great questions and during the entire buying/surveying process it would be great to get them answered.

But if you were a buyer and walked up to me the seller and pulled out that list, then I would assume that you either have analysis-paralysis or are an unconfident newbie. In either case I wouldn’t waste my time with you.
 
firehoser75 said:
Anyway, interesting diversity of outlooks.
FYI. When I sell, there will be a complete maintenance log from when I took ownership. It makes my job of staying on top of things easier, and should give a buyer a good starting point to move forward from knowing what has happened.
Click to expand...

When I sold my GB42, the sale including survey, sea trial, prospective buyer inspection, and money transfer happened from a Thursday morning to the following Monday at noon. I even taught the new guy how to handle the boat in a mooring situation down at the local marina. We talked and talked over the weekend while he and crew lived aboard the boat. When it was all over, I handed him a thumb drive with my Excel-based maintenance file which went from August 1986 through May of 2015. EVERYTHING was there in excruciating detail. Wanna know his response? He said, "I have Japs at work to do my Excel stuff, I never bother." You know, I STILL hear from him whenever he has a question about why or when such and such was done, and my eyes are not even slanted. I am happy that he is apparently paying attention to the boat, but sheesh......
 
Pete Meisinger said:
Just for fun, pick any one question on your list of questions. Pretend you ask a seller that one question. Lets pretend it is the question about the interior ever been painted? with what?

In good faith he answers, Yes I painted part of the interior with, I think Interlux, Topside, beige.

So, you buy the boat and somewhere down the line you buy some touch up Interlux beige, turns out he used Interlux "Beach sand". It doesn't match.

You have just made a liar out of him. Can you take him to court? Can you make him repaint it? Who knows? Nobody should care!

If someone were to ask me a litany of questions like yours I would assume he is seeking grounds for a lawsuit or claim in the future.

I guess if I was asked this number of questions I would have to shrug and murmer "I dunno".
Actually, I think I would look for another buyer. My "lawsuit radar" would be beeping up a storm.

If any of those questions are really important to you, feel free to ask one or two. On the others, figure it out yourself.

pete
Click to expand...

Well, Pete, meaning no offense, but I know I would be soon passing your boat up and looking for another seller because your attitude would turn me off. Hey, it's just different strokes. Good luck when/if you ever try to sell.
 
rgano,
I agree wholeheartedly with your sheesh........ in that case. I would entertain a few questions (2-3 for example) from a buyer after the sale, for a while (say first boating season), but then, he is on his own. The records are there and it is now your boat.
Sounds like you are the kind of seller I would have been looking for, assuming it was the right boat :)
When I sold my sailboat, with a complete log, I did get a couple of "how to" questions or "what is that for" for about 4 months, but that was it. I didn't mind that at all. Sounds like some would not like that. Fair enough I guess.
 
Little story from our boat search five years ago.

Given our plans for long period cruising, one of the critical items my wife wanted was a full size washer and dryer in an accessible location.

We used a buyer's broker.

On one boat our broker was talking to the selling broker in the salon with us both there. We asked a number of questions and then our broker said "the listing has a washer and dryer, but we haven't seen it, can you show it to us."

The other broker actually laughed at our broker, and embarrassed him. Told us that was an error on the listing, but adding a washer and dryer was not important to buying this fine vessel, and could easily be added." My wife went ballistic on the way our guy was treated. We walked.

Ask all the questions you want. The selling broker will not know the answers to many of these (like all of the maintenance items, oil and filter changes etc.), so try to get the list to him/her well in advance of your visit so that he can get the answers from the seller.

Also go through the listing details and see if the answers to many of your questions are on there - then confirm them when seeing the boat.
 
I appreciate all the replies. I'd definitely tell a few of you that you can take your boat and stick up where it won't fit. For me it's all about transparency. Why wouldn't you if possible answer some questions? Do you have something to hide or just arrogant? Most of the questions are just asking if and when something has been done so I can gauge when or if it needs to be done now or later. I'm not rich like some of you seem to be and yes God forbid I'm a newbie.
 
I read a few of the posts in answer to your long list of questions.

If I were the seller and you the buyer, I'd be pleased to answer your questions. I'd even include info on few items you didn't even ask about. That said, don't think I noticed questions on your list regarding the head, galley and several other important things.

Matter of fact... that list... would be good for me "the seller" to have already filled out with copies available to provide serious buyers.

Oh yes, one other little thing... Before I would provide the list with all my answers to you or any other buyer: As is only correct, for you to prove your true interest in my boat, I would require a $2,500 down payment. With of course the correct pre purchase contract for us to both sign. Otherwise, chances are, the buyer is just a Lookie Lou, wasting my time! :facepalm:

Happy Used-Boat Hunting Daze! - Cheers!! Art :speed boat:
 
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Ask for the Owner's 'To Do' list. Both the Short term and the medium term one. There will always be some planned maintenance coming up, and the Owner ought to know what items are needed and how urgent they are.
 
Hirer a surveyor and let him get your answers. If you presented me with those questions I probably would look to another buyer.
 
Please enlighten me as why many of you would not ask questions before moving to a contract and surveyor? :confused: Maybe its a function of the amount of money the boat is selling for (my budget is smaller), but I see so many error in listings, that I wouldn't take anything in the listing as gospel.

I'm not sharing it with the broker or seller, but I have a list of things to look at and ask when I look at boats, and yes, questions on maintenance and what come with the boat are on the list. This doesn't make me a lookie-loo. It's actually quite the opposite, it makes me a serious buyer.

It is about going to visit a boat to see if it is worth looking at further. It is not designed to replace a proper survey and sea trial. It is done early on to see if it is worth making an offer on a boat and spending the money on a haul-out, survey and sea trial.

Jim
 
Rally
My response to your list, as a tire kicker, would initially be pretty general at best. I would say though after a purchase agreement, with mutually agreeable inspection terms, is in place relevant records will be available. Plus in my case, a discussion with the long term maintenance provider from since the boat was new.

A serious buyer is easily discerned, just as is a conniving seller. Works both ways.

Missing from your list is a question regarding insurance claims.
 
Ralsy...

You certainly have the right to ask these questions. However, as a seller (airplanes, cars and boats) I have been jerked around more than once by insincere buyers that have seemingly infinite questions buy in the end after a great deal of my efforts had no intention of buying.

I would appreciate a visit from a mechanic, broker or surveyor to review my boat, ask question and see my logbooks. Then I know the prospective buyer has a dog in the hunt and is serious.

As mentioned I would not like or respond to be remotely grilled. Others may feel differently.

Goood luck on your quest.
 
garychurch said:
Ralsy...

You certainly have the right to ask these questions. However, as a seller (airplanes, cars and boats) I have been jerked around more than once by insincere buyers that have seemingly infinite questions buy in the end after a great deal of my efforts had no intention of buying.

I would appreciate a visit from a mechanic, broker or surveyor to review my boat, ask question and see my logbooks. Then I know the prospective buyer has a dog in the hunt and is serious.

As mentioned I would not like or respond to be remotely grilled. Others may feel differently.

Goood luck on your quest.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the responses.

I can't quite understand that a tyre kicker would go to all the trouble of first thinking about then writing and eventually asking these questions if they weren't in some way serious about buying the boat.

For many live aboard people it's about having clarity and working into the budget any future possible costs associated with owning this particular boat. There is of course regular maintenance which is a given but why change the stabilizer shaft seals if they were done last year, etc, etc.

For reference purposes the list I supplied was after a price was agreed to and a contract was signed subject sea trial and survey. All questions and then some have been kindly answered by the owner. Personally if I were selling the boat I would do all I could to provide enough info to the broker to answer most of the question anyway.

Sea trial is 2 days away. So excited
 
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