menzies
Guru
Thoughts - is this safe?
https://gearmeupnow.com/products/3the-easy-fill-propane-refill-tool?_pos=2&_sid=d9f131c31&_ss=r
https://gearmeupnow.com/products/3the-easy-fill-propane-refill-tool?_pos=2&_sid=d9f131c31&_ss=r
One Pound Propane Tank Refill
- Thread starter menzies
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
psneeld
Guru
Last edited:
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
Ah so this gadget started that thread.
Last edited:
Pete Meisinger
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 3,145
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Best Alternative
- Vessel Make
- 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Ive got the gadget in my garage, I've never used it.
As long as the one pounders are so reasonably priced and made of steel so they have little ecological impact I'll keep using them.
pete
As long as the one pounders are so reasonably priced and made of steel so they have little ecological impact I'll keep using them.
pete
jleonard
Guru
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 5,161
Yes and good luck sorting it out. LOL
firehoser75
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,719
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- former owner of "Pilitak"
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 37
As most of you know, propane cylinders are not designed to be completely full! Overfilling beyond the designed capacity can result in leakage (at best), or in extreme cases, cylinder failure (usually a previously damaged cylinder) from overpressurization or from flame impingement should a leak ignite. The one pound cylinders are made for single use so I would suspect they might be more prone to failure and problems (cheaply made) than the cylinders designed for repeated use. Over the years (of use of one pound cylinders), I have had several leak for various reasons (none from being very old). By the way, I did not refill them. Now, I avoid them totally and use a 10 lb. cylinder stored on my swim grid to operate my BBQ. Lasts for about 2 months of relatively heavy use, and I feel is much safer and avoids the garbage associated with the 1 lb disposables. Safe storage is a concern when it comes to the 1 lb bottles. Ensure they are stored in a well ventilated area where any leakage can make it's way quickly overboard (remembering that propane is heavier than air) and also away from ANY potential ignition sources.
There is enough energy stored in a 1 lb propane bottle to potentially do very serious damage to any boat (including destroying most smaller boats), so ensure you store them properly (safely), replace them often (routinely) and at the first sign of any damage or deterioration of condition, and treat them with respect for their potential.
FYI, I strongly advise against freezing the bottle to try to "squeeze in" more propane than was designed should you decide to refill them, especially in hot climates where the contents are more prone to increases in pressure caused by the heat or sun exposure!
There is a reason why propane tanks (refillable) must be tested and certified, personnel doing the refilling must be properly trained (certified), and the cylinders are NOT filled beyond their listed (stamped on the bottle) capacity. Propane is quite safe if used and stored properly, but it can have severe results if not!
I am not being overly dramatic here, I have seen first hand the results of the careless use of propane and it isn't pretty.
For those who insist it is OK to refill the small 1lb. cylinders, then I would strongly suggest using the ones that are "certified" as refillable, using their entire system to do it.
However, realize that propane refilling requires properly trained and "certified" staff for good reason! There is a little more to it than just "hooking it up". Also be aware of the fact that the "refillable" cylinders (and associated equipment) received enough negative reviews on Amazon that caused concern for me, as did some of the obviously uninformed comments on how to refill.
Be safe, especially out on a boat. A little inconvenience to ensure safety is always the prudent thing to do. IMHO.
There is enough energy stored in a 1 lb propane bottle to potentially do very serious damage to any boat (including destroying most smaller boats), so ensure you store them properly (safely), replace them often (routinely) and at the first sign of any damage or deterioration of condition, and treat them with respect for their potential.
FYI, I strongly advise against freezing the bottle to try to "squeeze in" more propane than was designed should you decide to refill them, especially in hot climates where the contents are more prone to increases in pressure caused by the heat or sun exposure!
There is a reason why propane tanks (refillable) must be tested and certified, personnel doing the refilling must be properly trained (certified), and the cylinders are NOT filled beyond their listed (stamped on the bottle) capacity. Propane is quite safe if used and stored properly, but it can have severe results if not!
I am not being overly dramatic here, I have seen first hand the results of the careless use of propane and it isn't pretty.
For those who insist it is OK to refill the small 1lb. cylinders, then I would strongly suggest using the ones that are "certified" as refillable, using their entire system to do it.
However, realize that propane refilling requires properly trained and "certified" staff for good reason! There is a little more to it than just "hooking it up". Also be aware of the fact that the "refillable" cylinders (and associated equipment) received enough negative reviews on Amazon that caused concern for me, as did some of the obviously uninformed comments on how to refill.
Be safe, especially out on a boat. A little inconvenience to ensure safety is always the prudent thing to do. IMHO.
Last edited:
AZ2Loop
Senior Member
Menzies, I like the idea of refilling them, too. I just don't like "single use" items when it can be avoided. The thread psneeld referenced above is one of the reasons I lean toward not doing it. If I do it I would likely go with a complete system like he also linked where the bottle is intended to be refilled with their proprietary refill kit.
Honestly, the biggest reason I cool off on the idea is just how shockingly long a 1LB bottle seems to last. It always surprises me. Even on a little, cheap, inefficient grill I find 1LB bottles last a long, long time. That realization leads me to the belief that maybe this is a solution looking for a problem.
Honestly, the biggest reason I cool off on the idea is just how shockingly long a 1LB bottle seems to last. It always surprises me. Even on a little, cheap, inefficient grill I find 1LB bottles last a long, long time. That realization leads me to the belief that maybe this is a solution looking for a problem.
firehoser75
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,719
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- former owner of "Pilitak"
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 37
To say nothing about your own boat insurance probably being void if you suffered an accident caused by this. That is why insurance companies send out an adjustor to investigate the cause of the claim, including checking the findings of any emergency responders. In my opinion, this is not what should motivate you (claim being denied), your safety and the safety of your loved ones should.
Just saying.....
Just saying.....
Comodave
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 22,246
- Location
- Au Gres, MI
- Vessel Name
- Black Dog
- Vessel Make
- Formula 41PC
I would never refill one, just not worth the small savings. I just throw them in the garbage, never had any negative feedback.
psneeld
Guru
Once again....there are reasons to refill and for some not so much....no right or wrong.
There are legal ones to refill and a safe kit to do it with. See my link.
Another topic that isn't all or nothing or yes/no.
There are legal ones to refill and a safe kit to do it with. See my link.
Another topic that isn't all or nothing or yes/no.
A friend of mine in my high school was burned over 80 per cent of his body when refueling a propane tank that exploded. He was out for a year, in horrible agony a lot of the time, and to this day, can't get in the sun, because his skin can't sweat or take the heat.
I'll pass on the refill idea.
I'll pass on the refill idea.
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
One is optional the other not really in most areas. There are easy alternatives instead of refilling, not so much for driving.
psneeld
Guru
The real point is that accidents usually have a reason. Why did it happen?
Most people continue to do things because the believe in their ability to stay safe.
Sure you don't HAVE to refill, but if you believe you have safe equipment and can do it safely, why not?
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
I was interested when I got the ad but I guess too many variables for me, the main one being the condition of the bottle. How long can you do this for? A year, two, longer? Then how do you know how much you have put in, have you overfilled?
You can get a connection for Magma grills that connect to a standard 20 lb tank and I did consider it as I have the space for it up on the boat deck. But just decided to stay with the one pound tanks. As stated, they really do last a surprisingly long time - probably because of the size of the grills we use versus home.
https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276179|2276204|2276205|2276252|2276259&id=1463095
Last edited:
firehoser75
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,719
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- former owner of "Pilitak"
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 37
Why not?
First because except for the 1 lb. cylinders that are specifically listed as "refillable", it is against all safety regulations, maybe even laws (and certainly against cylinder manufacturers recommendations).
Two, there are other alternatives that are proven to be a lot safer and are approved by regulators. From other posts on this forum that support the refilling, it seems to mostly boil down to convenience. "I may have to move a (larger) cylinder from one location (storage) to another (use), or buy a longer hose, or carry and store more cylinders, etc."
Even the "refillable" ones are only as safe as the people using them (and the quality control of the manufacturer, and customer reviews put that into some question), and safety regulations for propane require that people handling the product (conducting either the transport or refilling), be trained and certified. Why, because it can be a very dangerous product if not used correctly, and for a lot of people, how to do that is not readily apparent. Otherwise, why the need for training, it is safe, right?
Personally to use the fact that people die from other causes to justify doing something that contravenes several regulatory and industry standards just doesn't make much sense. To use another (poor) example, just because I believe that I can safely transport bottles of nitroglycerine down an unpaved logging road with little knowledge of the product or it's properties (and probably a disregard for regulations) doesn't make it so. But I can "get away with it" if I am lucky. And if I am lucky, it's safe. Right?
With products like propane (hence the regulations), it all too often only takes one time ........
I know you have your mind made up, so I speak to any others who want to take the time to consider the potential ramifications and hopefully make the safer decision.
Just to be clear, it is not my intention to offend you or anyone here, only to try to look out for safety. Sometimes safety takes a bit of extra work, but I feel that it is worth it.
First because except for the 1 lb. cylinders that are specifically listed as "refillable", it is against all safety regulations, maybe even laws (and certainly against cylinder manufacturers recommendations).
Two, there are other alternatives that are proven to be a lot safer and are approved by regulators. From other posts on this forum that support the refilling, it seems to mostly boil down to convenience. "I may have to move a (larger) cylinder from one location (storage) to another (use), or buy a longer hose, or carry and store more cylinders, etc."
Even the "refillable" ones are only as safe as the people using them (and the quality control of the manufacturer, and customer reviews put that into some question), and safety regulations for propane require that people handling the product (conducting either the transport or refilling), be trained and certified. Why, because it can be a very dangerous product if not used correctly, and for a lot of people, how to do that is not readily apparent. Otherwise, why the need for training, it is safe, right?
Personally to use the fact that people die from other causes to justify doing something that contravenes several regulatory and industry standards just doesn't make much sense. To use another (poor) example, just because I believe that I can safely transport bottles of nitroglycerine down an unpaved logging road with little knowledge of the product or it's properties (and probably a disregard for regulations) doesn't make it so. But I can "get away with it" if I am lucky. And if I am lucky, it's safe. Right?
With products like propane (hence the regulations), it all too often only takes one time ........
I know you have your mind made up, so I speak to any others who want to take the time to consider the potential ramifications and hopefully make the safer decision.
Just to be clear, it is not my intention to offend you or anyone here, only to try to look out for safety. Sometimes safety takes a bit of extra work, but I feel that it is worth it.
Its not just a matter of safely making the gas transfer from one tank to another. Refillable cylinders like for medical gas or industrial gases, will have allowable retest dates, depending of the material used to make the tanks. Retesting is then done at a predetermined point in time, and following specifications set forth by D.O.T. The retesting is one method of deciding when tanks need to be removed from service.
Jim
Sundancer268
Member
Been refilling for years, though I never use the refilled ones on the boat. After a few refills they will start to leak and need to be disposed of. Never know when the tank will fail though the leaking starts immediately after disconnecting the filling adapter. I am going to have to get some more cylinders as my stock I can refill is getting depleated.
psneeld
Guru
I have a laundry list of safety training too....
Don't think for one second that you have a upper hand on understanding safety.
Extra work sure...but this isn't exactly a rocket launch.
I have a higher expectation of people even though I too have a career of saving others that have made less than brilliant decisions.
One has to ask oneself prior to doing anything that a "professional" could also do...presumably "safer"....would any of us own a boat when a professional on a commercially inspected boat could take us out much safer?
Last edited:
This was a little more horrible. I don't think I can really articulate what he actually went through.
psneeld
Guru
Actually some of those car accidents were horrible too which I don't wish on anyone...my point being do we know to what degree safety precautions were followed?
As in any accident.....
OP
OP
menzies
Guru
Which poster are you referring to?
firehoser75
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,719
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- former owner of "Pilitak"
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 37
Psneeld in this case.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 2,315
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Sandpiper
- Vessel Make
- Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
I had a refillable 1 pound propane tank a while back and it didn't hold as much as the disposable cylinder. It also started leaking after 2 years use,
I replaced it with a 5 pound tank 7 years ago and it still does not leak. The 5 pound tanks are 8" diameter and 13" tall. I use it for the BBQ and the crab cooker and one fill lasts all summer. It's lighter and easier to carry than the 20. The galley stove uses a 20.
I replaced it with a 5 pound tank 7 years ago and it still does not leak. The 5 pound tanks are 8" diameter and 13" tall. I use it for the BBQ and the crab cooker and one fill lasts all summer. It's lighter and easier to carry than the 20. The galley stove uses a 20.
Attachments
firehoser75
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,719
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- former owner of "Pilitak"
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 37
"One has to ask oneself prior to doing anything that a "professional" could also do...presumably "safer"....would any of us own a boat when a professional on a commercially inspected boat could take us out much safer?"
I did not advocate to stay in a padded room and never go outside, just to ensure one's safety!
Like many here, I have taken a lot of boater training, read a lot of books on the subject, frequent these forums where I can learn from the intelligent posts of others, etc. to make my boating as safe as possible. But yes, with the right "professional" skipper, on the right properly maintained commercial boat, it would probably be safer? But what does that really have to do this. Just boating does not by itself contravene any safety "rules" that I am aware of?
By the way, I did not try to infer that I am some kind of "safety" expert. Yes, I do have more knowledge than some, but less than others, and I am well aware of both sides.
However, I do not knowingly do things that true experts (like the NFPA) and the National Propane Gas Association or the Canadian Propane Association think are bad ideas or even contravene safety regulations.
Both refilling small cylinders and doing other things to avoid it (the refilling) take some work. The choice is yours, and so are the risks.
Nuff said.
I did not advocate to stay in a padded room and never go outside, just to ensure one's safety!
Like many here, I have taken a lot of boater training, read a lot of books on the subject, frequent these forums where I can learn from the intelligent posts of others, etc. to make my boating as safe as possible. But yes, with the right "professional" skipper, on the right properly maintained commercial boat, it would probably be safer? But what does that really have to do this. Just boating does not by itself contravene any safety "rules" that I am aware of?
By the way, I did not try to infer that I am some kind of "safety" expert. Yes, I do have more knowledge than some, but less than others, and I am well aware of both sides.
However, I do not knowingly do things that true experts (like the NFPA) and the National Propane Gas Association or the Canadian Propane Association think are bad ideas or even contravene safety regulations.
Both refilling small cylinders and doing other things to avoid it (the refilling) take some work. The choice is yours, and so are the risks.
Nuff said.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 2,315
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Sandpiper
- Vessel Make
- Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
A concientious "handy" boat owner who has owned boats most of his/her life or for at least 10 years, who does his/her own work and can afford the cost of maintenance parts and has stayed current in education is just as safe as the professional skipper.
Possibly safer since most proffesional skippers aren't invested in the boat under their feet like the boatowner.
Possibly safer since most proffesional skippers aren't invested in the boat under their feet like the boatowner.
Similar threads
