PNW Cruising Outfits

[DDW]

We went north 2 weeks earlier this year than last year (left Anacortes May 4). Saw very few boats anywhere. So beating the crowd is one option. We had to share one anchorage (Fury) with two boats, all the others we were alone. Coming back, Lowe was most crowded, 7 nice people and one idiot ('Alaskan Odyssey').

I agree the flotillas are a problem, best strategy is to download their itineraries before you leave and avoid them. Going up The Ditch you can just go one island to the left and you won't see almost anybody. You are still crowded at the convergence points, Prince Rupert and Ketchikan primarily because of the border.

And I agree GPS is at fault, but you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

 

[slowgoesit]

Agree with these numbers but I still don't see how 25 boats in flotillas make the difference in crowded vs not crowded in places as big as B.C. or Alaska.

Example, when 9 Grand Banks show up in Baranof Warm Springs all at one time, along with all the boats already there . . . . , dock space and safe anchorage can be at a premium.
They totally have a right to be there, just giving you a personal example where it DOES make a difference . . . . YMMV

 

[AlaskaProf]

They totally have a right to be there, just giving you a personal example where it DOES make a difference . . . . YMMV

It almost doesn't matter what field of endeavor, there are simply too many of us doing it.


The problem isn't our "carbon footprint", it is too many "carbon feet."

 

[Ken E.]

From a flotilla customer's perspective, I have a dock friend who went with Slow Boat a couple years ago and he liked the experience. The flotilla has the same problem as the other boats regarding 'choke points' where a lot of boats go. Port McNeil, Shearwater, Prince Rupert, Ketchikan. Ketchikan in particular, since it doesn't take reservations, which caused them problems just like everyone else. Slow Boat's current flotilla, per their website, left in early May '23 and ends 6 weeks later around Juneau. The boats are on their own for the trip down. The cost for this trip is $14k per boat. Seems pretty steep to me, in your own boat and you're tagging along. But they filled the slots at that price.

 

[soin2la]

The cost for this trip is $14k per boat. Seems pretty steep to me, in your own boat and you're tagging along.

In 1985, I made the Alaska trip with a sister ship. Both 28’ boats were equipped with paper charts, swung compass, VHF, depth sounder, current flares, Mustang floater jackets, an under-counter fridge; no generator, no holding tank.

I know one of the boats in the current batch; a modern, fully equipped pilothouse. It is following mother goose, simply because they lacked the confidence to do it alone…this time. They consider the cost to be a small add-on to their outlay of $1MM+ for their new vessel. I’m confident, when they are done, they will each be capable of single handing, anywhere.

 

[DDW]

The cost for this trip is $14k per boat. Seems pretty steep to me, in your own boat and you're tagging along. But they filled the slots at that price.

We looked up the cost on a couple of them when they went by - it is astonishing. But then, so is a weekend for the family at Disneyland. On the other hand a cabin on the Disney Wonder, basically the same itinerary, was much less. And rather than going with 20 of your best friends, you get to go with a 1000 of them.

 

[sjisailor]

I also imagine it is a compromise choice for many couples, where the flotilla adds enough confidence to convince the "other" person to go along.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Get their itenerary and get a day ahead of them.

pete

 

[murofrelwart]

We have found several "undocumented" anchorages in SE Alaska that are every bit as amazing as some of the more popular stops. (By "undocumented" I mean nothing marked in Active Captain and little or no information in the Douglas guide. )



For example, earlier this year we explored Bradfield Canal - off of Blake Channel and Ernest Sound, last year we "found" Patterson Bay on the east coast of Baranoff Island. We look at the chart, add some common sense, and explore. We have always been all alone.



Later this year we plan to explore south of Sitka and perhaps west of Hoonah.

 

[Airstream345]

Example, when 9 Grand Banks show up in Baranof Warm Springs all at one time, along with all the boats already there . . . . , dock space and safe anchorage can be at a premium.
They totally have a right to be there, just giving you a personal example where it DOES make a difference . . . . YMMV

I understand the mechanics, especially in the staging areas like Port McNeil, Sheerwater, etc., and popular anchorages, but are people here seriously complaining that there are too many flotilla boats in Alaska for others to enjoy it?

If so, they are the spoiled, entitled bunch of boaters, not the flotilla customers trying to learn the way.

 

[sunchaser]

Later this year we plan to explore south of Sitka and perhaps west of Hoonah.

Yes! Overnight in Pelican or Elfin Cove and then take Lisianski into the island chain down the Pacific into Sitka. This is a real test of skills and guaranteed there will be no flotillas there. It is a beautiful pristine stretch and well discussed in Douglas. Get ready to read kelp as key markers.

Avoiding the flotillas is easy unless one feels compelled to hit the cliche spots. Instead of Glacier Bay go to LeConte and then Dundas Bay. That way you can avoid the GB Park BS and see equally interesting sites.

 

[soin2la]

I understand the mechanics, especially in the staging areas like Port McNeil, Sheerwater, etc., and popular anchorages, but are people here seriously complaining that there are too many flotilla boats in Alaska for others to enjoy it?

If so, they are the spoiled, entitled bunch of boaters, not the flotilla customers trying to learn the way.

There is, or at least should be a volume of education on these flotillas as well.

In a challenging anchorage or harbour, I would rather know the approaching vessel had been on a 6 week, 700nm flotilla and a 2-4 week, unaccompanied return to Seattle, than a supposedly experienced boater, who is confused by a port hand day beacon.

 

[LDomela]

You did not meet up with Slowboat at any time this season. As we discussed on the other forum where you made this same claim. It is not true.

 

[soin2la]

You did not meet up with Slowboat at any time this season. As we discussed on the other forum where you made this same claim. It is not true.

I thought you were several days ahead of ASD.

 

[LDomela]

I thought you were several days ahead of ASD.

Weeks ahead, actually. I really don't have a clue why he keeps announcing in all these groups and forums that he's run into us. The only interaction we've had is when he commented a bunch of wrong information on our Slowboat blog post about our wonderful visit to Khutze, telling us that we broke all the "rules" and that Khutze was closed, etc. and I had to correct him.

 

[soin2la]

Weeks ahead, actually.

Well to be fair, it looks like you left Seattle weeks ahead but it also looks like you were in Sitka, just a few days apart.

Anyway, it too, is what it is.

 

[LDomela]

Well to be fair, it looks like you left Seattle weeks ahead but it also looks like you were in Sitka, just a few days apart.

Anyway, it too, is what it is.

We're in Sitka now (which has TONS of open space, btw), I think ASD just left Wrangell...and yes we left WA a few weeks ahead. Once you're in this area of SE AK it's only a few days from most of the spots...I'm not sure why this matters. My main point is that we have not seen ASD at all and have not been the source of any of his "too many boats" traffic woes, and that I don't know why he continues to name us as part of his sphere of misery at all.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Ok folks. Been a big misunderstanding. The point of my original question/statement is: What impact has your cruising groups had on others that have chosen to cruise SEAK? I think a fair question to ask.

I have stated (please go back and read) that these cruise groups are professional and serve a specific niche in recreational boating.

My Khutze comment came from the B.C. Parks and Klemtu First Nations. If you want some good information, all you have to do is look at the 2023 Waggoner. They did some great research. July 1st is when new rules take effect. Two notables, you must call the park/First Nations before entering Khutze and you must have a guide if want to go up the river. There are also other requirements but you can go to the Waggoner.

That's it. I asked a legitimate question, while staying respectful. Again the Flotilla serves and provide a great service.

My beef is when I was told I was spreading "misinformation " regarding Khute Inlet. All I did was to pass on information from those that run the place. Stating I was intenually passing on misinformation is the same as calling me a liar.

We did finally meet up today in Sergus Narrows. At least I thought it was you.

Please go to the Waggoner and read it.

If I have insulted you or your business, then I apologize. I think you have a great company.

 

[soin2la]

Ok folks. Been a big misunderstanding. The point of my original question/statement is: What impact has your cruising groups had on others that have chosen to cruise SEAK? I think a fair question to ask.

Lol Tom, you were on a soap box.

So this summer, we have run into the 3 outfits that operate in the PNW. NW Expeditions, Slow Boat and Waggoner.

I believe all 3 groups are top notch, professional and offers a valuable service.

However (you knew this was coming) with all these groups docking, taking small anchorages, and such, it can get a little crowded.

I'm not complaining. The group cruises, marinas, and all the other folks makes money. Good for them. It's just when you come around the corner and there is a cruising group taking up the anchorage.....

We are also seeing more boat traffic on the Inside Passage this year.

End of soapbox

What say you?

Your only question was: “What say you?” and it was said by many; mostly, much ado about nothing, carry on cruising.

 

[AquaAura]

You didn't bother highlighting they are top notch and good for them making money.

 

[soin2la]

You didn't bother highlighting they are top notch and good for them making money.

That wasn't in dispute.

 

[PNK]

It is what it is, everyone is a visitor and entitled to be. Complaining isn’t going to change it.

It is the same with recreational camping in BC; non locals swamping all available space. The large RV rental companies marketing in Europe and connected with travel agents book huge numbers of campsites, many of which sit empty because of no shows.

Popular destination accommodations and wildlife tours booked months in advance. Ferries at capacity much of the time; two lane highways akin to interstates.

It is what it is.

Roll back 20 years, or even less and we were all cursing the entitled invaders from the south taking over our favorite anchorages. Now we just plan accordingly. June used to be “off season,” now its April.

The flotillas do publish their itineraries, at least in the spring when organizing and yes a quick check with them will confirm, but that won’t help much as the overflow will go where you are going anyway.

Long gone are the days when a spot was there just for “ME.”

I am reminded of what Yogi Berra said many years ago, although he was talking about a restaurant, not cruising destinations:
" The place is getting so popular no one wants to go there anymore!"

 

[Airstream345]

ASD - I'm sorry but I don't buy it was a misunderstanding. You posted the same thing here and again in at least one related Facebook group I belong to (that banned you afterward) and it all seemed...intentionally provocative

Looking at the 2023 Wagoneers all it says (page 451) is to call the Watchman on CH6 between July and October when going in. Checking the Kitasoo / Xai’xais Conservancies own website lists only the following under "regulations":

• Public bear viewing is water-based only. Public access to the Interpretive Site is allowed only with a Kitasoo/Xai’xais Guardian or certified bear guide.
• Maximum group size of 16 people total.
• No pets are permitted in the viewing area. Dogs can go ashore on the north side of the inlet, approximately 1.5km northwest of the river mouth, across from Pardoe Point.
• Camping is only permitted at the designated camping site at Green Spit on the south side of the inlet.
• No smoking or fires.
• Leave no trace. Do not leave anything behind, including compostable food, human waste, and toilet paper.
• Please do not take anything with you, such as flowers, wood, shells, and cultural artifacts.
• Jet boats, jet skis, and paddleboards are not permitted in the water-based viewing area.
• Use of drones is not permitted.
• Aircraft landing is not permitted in the Khutze estuary and viewing areas. Land at least 500m from the estuary.

Nothing in Wagoneers nor the website about July 1 changes. Nothing about closing the Inlet. Nothing about B.C. Parks taking control of Red Bluff Bay.

You then switched the conversation to generally crowded anchorages and docks.

You said: Waggoner and NW Expeditions showed up in Wrangell together. Docks full.

I was in Wrangell when Slowboat was there...there was plenty of room. Boats came and went. You however according to Slowboat were not in Wrangell at the time. I didn't see you there either.

I state this again, we've been in Alaska since May 24th and have not had one single issue getting a dock, finding anchorage (we're usually the only boat) and we rarely see other boats when underway. We rarely see the boats we came up with anymore as after Ketchikan everyone has their own plans.

We've run into three buddy boat groups here in Hoonah, one made up of larger Selenes, one on small Ranger Tugs, and another from our own Yacht Club where we're all hunkered down for some weather or waiting for permits to Glacier Bay.

Not one boat had issues getting in. In fact, when the Harbormaster wasn't answering a hailing vessel about space, one of the Selene owners got on the radio and offer up a side tie to them. We did the same in Hartley Bay. It's what mariners do for each other.

I really don't see what the issue you or anyone else has with people other than old timers coming to Alaska - be it flotillas, yacht clubs, buddy boats, or solo cruisers - it's a big place with plenty of room.

 

[DDW]

SEAK/N BC is a big space, and it is easy to avoid the crowds - except for two instances, Ketchikan and Prince Rupert. Ketchikan somewhat alleviated with the CBPRoam app, you often don't have to touch there, also there are lots of facilities. Prince Rupert there is little choice when southbound.

I have been there twice in the last year when flotillas were in town and other boats were turned away. It isn't the end of the world, you can check in at the customs dock and anchor out etc. But flotillas, like bus tours or any other group travel, have their effect. Others appreciate the efforts that some of them take to minimize that effect.