Question about flying the US flag

[AlanT]

I thought the rules were pretty simple till I read this thread!

Stern: Flag of Vessel's registration.

Starboard Halyard: Courtesy Flag of the nation that the vessel is in but only if this is different from vessel's registration nation. A vessel in its home country should have no flag on this halyard. Any courtesy flag should be removed and replaced with the Yellow Q flag when entering foreign waters until vessel has cleared customs, at which point the host nation's courtesy flag should be flown.

Port Halyard: Crew Nationality flags. One flag for each nation represented on board. Cruising we flew Union Jack over the US Flag. (Capt British, Crew US). It is also optional to fly association flags here (Yacht rally, Yacht Club Burgee etc.) They would I believe be flown above the crew flags.

Two observations
1/ the only time we have ever been stopped for a flag offence was shortly after entering Portuguese waters from Spanish waters. We were still flying our Spanish courtesy flag (from the correct halyard) and were stopped by the Coast Guard and told sternly that it should have been removed and replaced with the Portuguese flag when crossing the water "border" into Portugal. Since we did not need to clear customs (both Spain and Portugal are of course EU countries with no customs border between them) we did not need a Q flag in this instance.
2/ When cruising internationally it is helpful to see the crew flags to see if a fellow countryman/woman might be on board. Helps with dinghy chats at anchor.

~A

 

[OldDan1943]

Oh yea, dinghy are even more confusing in my mind.
I use the T/T method but a 14ft RIB does not have a flag staff for any flags or stern light. I guess I will just shoot the RIB and let the body drift on the currents.

 

[OldDan1943]

Anthonia flew the "courtesy" tricolor at the starboard foremast and the "Red Duster" to port.

But with the mast lying horizontal for most of the voyage, I'm not sure how courteous this display is.

May I suggest you use the forward most flag staff as the starboard halyard????

 

[AlaskaProf]

May I suggest you use the forward most flag staff as the starboard halyard????

Probably good advice, but not my decision to make. The charter included a captain and a chef. I never disputed the authority of either.

 

[Zeemeermin]

Why is it that American tourists feel they have to indentify themselves as American , while in another country ? Removing the Dutch flag from the boat you have just rented seems very odd to me . Not that anyone in Friesland will mind .You will have a great time in a very rural area where the cows will not care at all what you fly on your boat . Do you want to meet other Americans in Friesland ? Why travel half round the world to do that .
Best not to stand out as American . Most are seen as loud , demanding , overweight and wearing funny baseball caps . If you really do not like the Dutch tricolour replace it with the Friesian pompebled flag , many local boats fly those . Have a great time !

 

[AlaskaProf]

Why is it that American tourists feel they have to indentify themselves as American , while in another country ? Removing the Dutch flag from the boat you have just rented seems very odd to me.
...
If you really do not like the Dutch tricolour replace it with the Friesian pompebled flag , many local boats fly those . Have a great time !

I think we've lost the narrative here. If you look at the original request, it comes from an inexperienced tourist asking our advice on how to do the "right thing.".

If I may be forgiven a big assumption, judging from his syntax and his screen name, and his choice of vacations, he may be an actual Nederlander residing in the U.S. trying to avoid offending the host country.

 

[OldDan1943]

Probably good advice, but not my decision to make. The charter included a captain and a chef. I never disputed the authority of either.

Way way back in time when I lived near Detroit, the fore staff was used as Stbd spreader. I will add, no one got upset if you didn’t use the Q flag or the visiting flag. In fact, I was told if I wasn’t going to be in Canadian waters for a couple of hours, no need to check in.
Canadian boaters were welcomed to visit and US boater were welcomed to visit.
When it came to non-commercial fishing, just dont make a pig of yourself. You needed A fishing license. The fish didn’t care.
Life was easier back then.

 

[Mako]

And, just to make sure you understand where America fits in the world, many Americans have been known to tell people they are Canadian so as to avoid the acrimony that can be felt by many Europeans.

And to avoid danger. I've been Canadian, British or Italian depending on circumstances and where I was in the Middle East or Central America. Especially in Syria, the hatred of Americans and the presence of Hezbollah was incredible.

 

[OldDan1943]

Per flying the flag, I fly a small US flag from the center halyard.
I remember the times in the Navy, “Shift the colors.” (Stern to center halyard) when getting underway.

Correct me if I wrong. I dont believe the regs specify the max size of the flag. We may be the only group/country that worries about our flags. SMILE. Another reason to keep a copy Chapman onboard.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Seconding several of the comments above, there are quite a few countries where the "courtesy flag" is required. Turkey has been mentioned. In Indonesia, the Indonesian flag must be both above and at least as large as the boat's national flag. The former is no problem if the national flag is on a stern staff, but the latter takes prior planning.


And yes, they enforce it -- while on the Darwin-Ambon race we had an Indonesian frigate come alongside (100 yards) and ask where our courtesy flag was -- my reply was that the wind was blowing it directly toward him, so he couldn't see it. He then challenged us to race him to Ambon -- and took off.


Jim

 

[dutch-barge]

Per flying the flag,

Correct me if I wrong. I dont believe the regs specify the max size of the flag. We may be the only group/country that worries about our flags. SMILE. Another reason to keep a copy Chapman onboard.

In the Netherlands it is the habit to fly the BIGGEST flag as possible, quite often you see where the flag even touches the water. The bigger the better.

Again don't forget this is an INLAND vessel, so CEVNI apply.
Again don't forget this is a RENTAL, which means NO ICC is needed.

 

[Mr. Blu]

In the Netherlands it is the habit to fly the BIGGEST flag as possible, quite often you see where the flag even touches the water. The bigger the better.

Again don't forget this is an INLAND vessel, so CEVNI apply.
Again don't forget this is a RENTAL, which means NO ICC is needed.[/QUOTE

The nation flag or country flag (such as the Dutch flag) should hang from the stern of your ship when you are sailing or in port. This is the most important flag, which says the most about the boat and crew. The flag must be rectangular and must not hang in the water. The flag must also be the largest flag on the ship. The flag must be properly hoisted from sunrise to sunset. It should always be lifted first and lowered last.
The courtesy flag is the flag of the state in whose waters you are sailing. It is placed under the starboard spreader and that is not just a courtesy, it is a duty. This flag must be hoisted immediately after the nation flag and lowered last before it.
The Geuzenvlag is a rectangular flag that you can attach to the prow of your ship as a salute. You don't have to feed these, but it can be a nice tradition.
The club flag is a pennant (isosceles triangle) with the hoist on the short side. You may fly a single club flag in the top of the mast or on the port spreader. But in motorboats without a mast, the club flag may be on the bow. With multiple club memberships, no second club flag may be hung below the first. When you are on board, you can fly the club flag day and night.
The owner's or visitor's flag is the flag of the owner of the vessel or of a guest on board. This can be placed on the starboard spreader, but if the owner deems it appropriate, it can also be flown on the port side, as it is a flag of lesser importance (than the nation flag).

 

[Circumnavigator]

In the Netherlands it is the habit to fly the BIGGEST flag as possible, quite often you see where the flag even touches the water. The bigger the better.

Agreed, on special days we fly an American casket flag (5x9.5'). We have two because both of our fathers were veterans and the government provides a free casket flag to families of veterans who ask for one. We have always used a staff long enough so it never touches the water. On Fintry and Morning Light that has been easy, since the flag staffs are on the upper deck.


Jim


Sweetwater -- Swan 57 sloop on which we circumnavigated 1995-98
Fintry -- x Royal Navy Fleet Tender -- owned 2003-2022, 20,000 miles including trans-Atlantic
Morning Light -- Webbers Cove 42 single screw trawler 2021- ?

 

[Circumnavigator]

[QUOTE
The flag must be rectangular and must not hang in the water. The flag must also be the largest flag on the ship. .[/QUOTE]


"The flag must be rectangular" is mostly safe in this context. The Swiss and Vatican flags are square and the Nepalese flag is irregular, but none of the three are likely places for a visiting yacht, except perhaps for a trip up the Rhine.


As for "the largest flag on the ship", see my comment above. In Indonesia and perhaps in Turkey, the courtesy flag must be larger.





Jim

 

[Hooksetter]

Hello !
We will be flying to the NL shortly and cruising Friesland on a charterboat for 3 weeks.

What is the etiquette/law ? May I take down the dutch flag and display the US Flag on the charterboat ?

Not sure how to do this correctly and don't want to offense anybody. Thank you so much for your advise

We have chartered boats several times in Friesland and have found the Dutch to pretty easy going. We flew a small American flag wherever we could find a convent location, and I don't recall it collecting any attention. Sure it may collect some unwanted attention, but throughout our many European charters, we have only had positives experiences flying the flag, and made some friends for life because of it.

 

[Hippocampus]

I thought the rules were pretty simple till I read this thread!

Stern: Flag of Vessel's registration.

Starboard Halyard: Courtesy Flag of the nation that the vessel is in but only if this is different from vessel's registration nation. A vessel in its home country should have no flag on this halyard. Any courtesy flag should be removed and replaced with the Yellow Q flag when entering foreign waters until vessel has cleared customs, at which point the host nation's courtesy flag should be flown.

Port Halyard: Crew Nationality flags. One flag for each nation represented on board. Cruising we flew Union Jack over the US Flag. (Capt British, Crew US). It is also optional to fly association flags here (Yacht rally, Yacht Club Burgee etc.) They would I believe be flown above the crew flags.

Two observations
1/ the only time we have ever been stopped for a flag offence was shortly after entering Portuguese waters from Spanish waters. We were still flying our Spanish courtesy flag (from the correct halyard) and were stopped by the Coast Guard and told sternly that it should have been removed and replaced with the Portuguese flag when crossing the water "border" into Portugal. Since we did not need to clear customs (both Spain and Portugal are of course EU countries with no customs border between them) we did not need a Q flag in this instance.
2/ When cruising internationally it is helpful to see the crew flags to see if a fellow countryman/woman might be on board. Helps with dinghy chats at anchor.

~A

+1 . My practice as well. As a side note think cutesy flags, political and pirate flags should not be flown at all. We take down the US flag at night except when a light can be maintained on it. Beyond legalities flag etiquette shows respect for naval tradition.

 

[Simi 60]

Flag waving has killed more people than the black plague.

Yep

Every time shite goes down be it Australia, USA, wherever in the world, there are violent nationalist meatheads waving flags.

To me and many I know, flags have become weoponised , a symbol of not nice things.

I won't fly one unless I must for legal reasons.

 

[Hippocampus]

I won't fly one unless I must for legal reasons.


Now coastal in my home country. Crew all citizens of that country. Do fly the stars and stripes on 4jul and Memorial Day and such but otherwise don’t unless boat is “dressed” for another reason. Proudly American but not proud of the chest thumpers on either side. Did fly the flag during international travel and followed all aspects of etiquette .

 

[OldDan1943]

+1 . My practice as well. As a side note think cutesy flags, political and pirate flags should not be flown at all. We take down the US flag at night except when a light can be maintained on it. Beyond legalities flag etiquette shows respect for naval tradition.

Someone decided the US flag can be flown at night IF it is lighted.
That’s what they do at the WH, light up the flag and leave the flag up.
Generally speaking, in the US, the flag of the county of registration is up 24 hours a day.
I dont think the dock-master nor his representative wants to traverse the docks, reminding folks to lower their and put it up at sunrise.
What happens if the owner and crew are not onboard?

 

[psneeld]

https://starspangledflags.com/dont-forget-to-illuminate-the-american-flag-when-displaying-at-night/

"Without illumination, no one will be able to see your American flag during the nighttime hours. When the sun goes down, your American flag will fade from visibility. As a result, it’s recommended that you illuminate the American flag when displaying it at night. You can turn off the light during the day, but when the sun goes down, you should use some form of exterior lighting to illuminate your American flag. Otherwise, no one will be able to see it.

Complies With the US Flag Code
You might be surprised to learn that the U.S. Flag Code discourages homeowners and business owners from displaying the American flag at night. According to the U.S. Flag Code, the American flag should be displayed from sunrise to sunset. An exception, however, is when a patriotic effect is desired, in which case the American flag can be displayed at night, assuming it’s properly illuminated with a light.

“When a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness,” says the U.S. Flag Code. While the federal government won’t arrest you for displaying a non-illuminated American flag at night, it’s still customary to comply with this federal law. The U.S. Flag Code contains guidelines on how to display, store, handle and retire the American flag. By following these guidelines, you can rest assured knowing that you are honoring and respecting the American flag and everything for which it stands."

Flying the flag is about an ideal, no matter which country you are from, not how good or bad it may be acting at the moment.......... to all those from other countries, hopefully your country has flag guidance and there are reasons to be proud of it too. It's not about being better, it's about ideals all nations should strive for.

 

[Mr. Blu]

I thought the rules were pretty simple till I read this thread!


Two observations
1/ the only time we have ever been stopped for a flag offence was shortly after entering Portuguese waters from Spanish waters. We were still flying our Spanish courtesy flag (from the correct halyard) and were stopped by the Coast Guard and told sternly that it should have been removed and replaced with the Portuguese flag when crossing the water "border" into Portugal. Since we did not need to clear customs (both Spain and Portugal are of course EU countries with no customs border between them) we did not need a Q flag in this instance.


~A

The borders of the EU are formed by the outside land borders. If you are sailing outside the land borders (e.g. when you leaving a border harbour) you are outside the European borders. You are then in international waters as far as you are not sailing inside the so called three mile zone of a country. In the three mile zone the country has territorial sovereignty. So when you were sailing in the three mile zone of Portugal I think the Portugese customs were right about the guest flag as the Portugese law was applicable.

The borders of the E.U are rather complicated as the E.U is not a nation. ( So there is no nation flag of the E.U.)

When we were renting out sailing yachts in the vicinity of the North Sea we always warned our customers that when they sailed out the North Sea sea lock they had to be sure that everybody on board carried their passport. Because sailing out to the North Sea meant leaving the E.U. So returning to port meant entering the E.U. Many times (especially the weekends) the Dutch customs were waiting at the entrance of the sea lock welcoming everybody to the Netherlands by asking for their passports. No passport meant at least a fine of € 60 ( in those days) for every crew member. A nice welcome present after a day sailing outside the E.U. Not to mention V.A.T. problems.

 

[Serene]

Someone decided the US flag can be flown at night IF it is lighted.
That’s what they do at the WH, light up the flag and leave the flag up.
Generally speaking, in the US, the flag of the county of registration is up 24 hours a day.
I dont think the dock-master nor his representative wants to traverse the docks, reminding folks to lower their and put it up at sunrise.
What happens if the owner and crew are not onboard?

Raise the ensign at 0800 and lower it at sunset every day and if the owner is not on board the ensign is not raised until they come aboard.

 

[Bill Streever]

My wife is Dutch (very Dutch, in fact). She doesn't think the average person in the Netherlands would care one way or another about a flag. My understanding is that a flag flown from the port shroud (not starboard, which is for courtesy flags) indicates that people of that flag's nationality are aboard (so on our US flagged vessel, we fly a US flag aft, a courtesy flag to port (currently Mexico), and a Dutch flag on the starboard--in this way, we often attract Dutch visitors and my wife can chatter away in Dutch for a while, which remains all but unintelligible to me. Strongly suggest you rent a bike or bikes to use from your vessel--biking is a huge part of the culture. Great movie on biking in The Netherlands (and the role of biking in the culture) is Why We Cycle. Highly recommended. Have a great trip!

 

[psneeld]

Flag etiquette is not about how the general populous feels...most people at least in the US have no clue about boating...including a great many that own boats.

If you want to follow proper flag procedures, than do so, and be wary of those countries that are harsh on improper flag etiquette and ignore those countries that could care less and just do the right thing.

 

[OldDan1943]

A side note; I am a veteran. I automatically salute and maybe she’d a tear or two, as necessary. I have never been criticized for saluting. There are bunches and bunches of vets that maybe feel the same way.
So we all should learn how to correctly display the flag but, either put your hand over your heart or salute.

 

[markpierce]

...

The borders of the E.U are rather complicated as the E.U is not a nation. ( So there is no nation flag of the E.U.)
...

EU flag exists, but it doesn't represent and individual country.

https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/symbols/european-flag_en

 

[psneeld]

A side note; I am a veteran. I automatically salute and maybe she’d a tear or two, as necessary. I have never been criticized for saluting. There are bunches and bunches of vets that maybe feel the same way.
So we all should learn how to correctly display the flag but, either put your hand over your heart or salute.

When do YOU salute or put your hand over your heart?

Not sure what the etiquette is for others and what they do in tbeir countries.

Kinda off topic for the OPs question.

 

[Comodave]

I always thought you salute if you are in uniform and put your hand over your heart if you were not in uniform.

 

[psneeld]

I always thought you salute if you are in uniform and put your hand over your heart if you were not in uniform.

https://www.military.com/flag-day/rules-for-saluting-us-flag.html

"Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. "

That came out with all the backlash BS after the Gulf Wars making up for the Vietnam Vet fiasco along with "Thank you for your service" getting out of hand....along with so many other things. Some good...but some bad too.

I do the hand over the heart thing, but I reserve the right to salute those that deserve one whether I am in uniform or not. The flag deserves and gets the appropriate hand over heart.

 

[Hippocampus]

I’d just be happy with hats off at ballgames.

Find it interesting that there’s no protocol for the 3 initial crowd who have also risked life and limb in the service of our country. Particularly for those who have done wet work.