Replacing old equip with newer used equipment

[Nimilaan4]

Hello all.
The boat we’re closing on is currently set up with a Garmin 2010c plotter, a separate datamarine depth indicator, and a RayNav 570 unit. I am a novice at all this, so I don’t know what I don’t know. Staying in Puget Sound (protected waters) for probably a couple years before venturing up into the southern Vancouver Isles. I hear I might also want a newer halo… what is the farthest back I should look year wise?? Appreciate any feedback- HAPPY FATHER’s Day.

Oh, she’s an 1986 O A 42 sedan - so she has a flybridge..

 

[rslifkin]

When buying used equipment, it'll mostly be a question of what gear you can find at a reasonable price and whether you feel that gear is adequate for your needs.

Fisherman tend to replace equipment more often than most, so used Lowrance HDS equipment that isn't too old is often easy to find. Just make sure you look into the limitations in terms of radar compatibility and such compared to the Simrad equivalents.

 

[Nimilaan4]

Thanks for you input, rslifkin

 

[SIBERNUT]

You might check your local electronics repair shop, NOT Worst Marine. They will probably know of complete changeouts/upgrades coming up. They can test and verify good equipment, and tell you what works best in a network. Sellers like West can't help you install it etc.

 

[Nimilaan4]

Creative, thanks Sibernut

 

[twistedtree]

I wouldn't bother with used equipment other than to replace some existing bits and pieces that are no longer available new. I think any used equipment that is any good will have served it's owner for a long time and now be really old. And any equipment that is newer is probably being replaced because of problems - likely compatibility problems with newer gear - and you wouldn't want it either.


I'm sure there are exceptions, and great deals that people have gotten at times, but I expect they are rare. Unless you are really knowledgeable about marine electronics, and all the specific brands and models, I think piecing together something that won't have issues is low probability.

 

[rslifkin]

I wouldn't bother with used equipment other than to replace some existing bits and pieces that are no longer available new. I think any used equipment that is any good will have served it's owner for a long time and now be really old. And any equipment that is newer is probably being replaced because of problems - likely compatibility problems with newer gear - and you wouldn't want it either.


I'm sure there are exceptions, and great deals that people have gotten at times, but I expect they are rare. Unless you are really knowledgeable about marine electronics, and all the specific brands and models, I think piecing together something that won't have issues is low probability.

In many cases that applies, but that's why I gave the caveat about gear commonly used by fishermen. They're more likely to upgrade just to get the latest gear, which gives some stuff that may be perfectly good to the rest of us on the used market. But outside of that, it's definitely hard to find working used gear that isn't ancient.

 

[mvweebles]

I'd probably run the existing kit for a season and make a decision then. Maybe upgrade the VHF for one with AIS B so you can at least track targets that are transmitting. Might be able to display on your Garmin Chartplotter, and would be usable for whatever upgrade you do

Used vs new - I agree with TT and lean towards bew. A decent starter suite is in the $5k-$7k range. More for a second display on flybridge. The hard part is physical install, especially getting old stuff out and holes patched or covered, and a N2K backbone in place. Better to start with fresh electronics.

So easy to spend other peoples' money....

Welcome aboard

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Hello all.
The boat we’re closing on is currently set up with a Garmin 2010c plotter, a separate datamarine depth indicator, and a RayNav 570 unit. I am a novice at all this, so I don’t know what I don’t know. Staying in Puget Sound (protected waters) for probably a couple years before venturing up into the southern Vancouver Isles. I hear I might also want a newer halo… what is the farthest back I should look year wise?? Appreciate any feedback- HAPPY FATHER’s Day.

Oh, she’s an 1986 O A 42 sedan - so she has a flybridge..

I'd run the boat as is for a while, a season or two, before messing with changing/upgrading electronics. That'll give you time to develop a feel for what you need, what's nice to have, what's luxury, what's a crock.

And I wouldn't bother replacing with used. New stuff today is already on the cusp of being replaced with newer on the day after tomorrow... no sense going from old and superceded to slightly less old and still superceded.

I suspect if budget restricts, still better to map out a complete plan for new stuff, then buy and install some of that, build on it over time according to plan.

-Chris

 

[Comodave]

I would not even consider installing used equipment. It is already outdated. Support for it may or may not be available. You may not even get questions answered by the manufacturer, some support equipment longer than others. The new stuff is pretty amazing. Use what you have for a year. Toy with what is available and what will fit. Then do an install of new equipment. I like to stick with one manufacturer so when you have issues they can’t point fingers at a different manufacturer. I always do my own installs so I know how it comes together but I have a pretty extensive background in working on boats.

 

[tiltrider1]

I have found that right after a manufacturer announces a new line you can find new old stock of the previous line on eBay for a good price. This is not used stock. This is the only time I would recommend not buying current inventory.

I have on occasion bought some used pieces. This has always been due to replacing an out of production unit that had failed or to add an additional display to an out of production system.

In almost all cases I have found some small issue that wasn’t right. I am never sure if this is why the previous owner replaced it or not. Being used there is no warranty.

There are a few cases were it makes sense to buy a used system but this more the exception than the rule.

 

[FWT]

Another way to handle budget challenges is to throttle back on size.

A Garmin 10 inch display is $1600. A 16 inch is $6600. You can go full top dog 24 inch for $12,300.

A new 10 inch might be a better bargain than used larger.

 

[Nimilaan4]

I'd run the boat as is for a while, a season or two, before messing with changing/upgrading electronics. That'll give you time to develop a feel for what you need, what's nice to have, what's luxury, what's a crock.



And I wouldn't bother replacing with used. New stuff today is already on the cusp of being replaced with newer on the day after tomorrow... no sense going from old and superceded to slightly less old and still superceded.



I suspect if budget restricts, still better to map out a complete plan for new stuff, then buy and install some of that, build on it over time according to plan.



-Chris

Hey Chris- Thanks for your input.

That was definitely the other side of the coin, I like the idea of sitting on what we have to see what our real needs will be. I was so ready to jump in and switch things up because it’s new to us. I feel like now I can just focus on the ER solely.

 

[Nimilaan4]

I would not even consider installing used equipment. It is already outdated. Support for it may or may not be available. You may not even get questions answered by the manufacturer, some support equipment longer than others. The new stuff is pretty amazing. Use what you have for a year. Toy with what is available and what will fit. Then do an install of new equipment. I like to stick with one manufacturer so when you have issues they can’t point fingers at a different manufacturer. I always do my own installs so I know how it comes together but I have a pretty extensive background in working on boats.

Hey Comodave, Thanks for your input. You and Chris I see are on the same page.

Throwing this out there for you all… I can work with the chart plotter, especially since I have Navionics, but a couple days ago we were out and got caught in a low marine layer here in Puget Sound. First time for us, it made me really want a different Radar solution than this WW2 relic we have now to see beyond our eyes. Any thoughts on that since I’m fine with waiting on upgrading the rest??

 

[Simi 60]

I'd run the boat as is for a while, a season or two, before messing with changing/upgrading electronics. That'll give you time to develop a feel for what you need, what's nice to have, what's luxury, what's a crock.

.

-Chris

This

7 years out here full time cruising and we still have all the original dated but perfectly usable nav gear.

Added OpenCPN running as our main plotter the SEIWA as backup
Added a new koden fishfinder but still use the datamarine numbers only for shallow alarm
Got a 2nd hand TMQ autopilot same same as a spare for our primary - 5 minute changeover.

The old JRC radar works fine, considered an upgrade but why?

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Definately go new. there is no need to buy the very best equipment on the market. A couple steps down will do nicely. Get everything at once, making sure they are all compatible and expandable.

pete

 

[Nimilaan4]

This

7 years out here full time cruising and we still have all the original dated but perfectly usable nav gear.

Added OpenCPN running as our main plotter the SEIWA as backup
Added a new koden fishfinder but still use the datamarine numbers only for shallow alarm
Got a 2nd hand TMQ autopilot same same as a spare for our primary - 5 minute changeover.

The old JRC radar works fine, considered an upgrade but why?

Hey Simi60-

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and setup, I will definitely research those.

 

[Nimilaan4]

Definately go new. there is no need to buy the very best equipment on the market. A couple steps down will do nicely. Get everything at once, making sure they are all compatible and expandable.

pete

Hey Pete-
My wife and I have decided to go new. Appreciate your input on not needing to go top notch.

 

[AquaAura]

If your staying local to the sound just get a tablet and run navionics.

Do you have a standalone depth sounder? If so then navionics and the depth you'll be good to go for a very low price.

 

[Nimilaan4]

If your staying local to the sound just get a tablet and run navionics.

Do you have a standalone depth sounder? If so then navionics and the depth you'll be good to go for a very low price.

Hey AquaAura-

Yes, we plan to stay local until we acquire enough experience and confidence to travel further out. Currently use Avionics on my phone and we have a stand alone depth sounder

Thanks for your response.

 

[AquaAura]

In that case I would recommend using it on a tablet as more of a dedicated chartplotter and just see how you use the boat and then make your decisions. Using old equipment would not gain anything and just cost more.

This is what I did with my first boat when we bought it a few years ago and it made my later buying decisions easier as I knew exactly what I needed.


Is it the 42 OA from NW Yacht net you are buying? Just curious as we are currently buying a Hershine from them.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Hey Comodave, Thanks for your input. You and Chris I see are on the same page.

Throwing this out there for you all… I can work with the chart plotter, especially since I have Navionics, but a couple days ago we were out and got caught in a low marine layer here in Puget Sound. First time for us, it made me really want a different Radar solution than this WW2 relic we have now to see beyond our eyes. Any thoughts on that since I’m fine with waiting on upgrading the rest??

What makes you think your existing radar is not good enough? With the older gear the issues are often resolved by learning how to set gain, anti-clutter and tuning.

Radar is a big decision starting with how much integration you want with the rest of the instruments. Unless you are sure you want stand alone or are sure what your target manufacturer will be you could be throwing money over the side to purchase too soon.

I'm in the same boat as Simi post #14. For the most part older gear that performs well. All stand alone. What integration I desire is by NMEA 0183. OpenCPN is my main plotter. With one exception, I recently purchased and installed the previous version Garmin GPSMap xsv for the fly bridge. Being the previous version I was able to purchase new at a significant discount with full warranty. Installation was easy. Weather resistant, daylight bright full charts for the west coast of North America. Weather resistant and daylight bright being the main criteria. Taking the laptop or tablet to the fly bridge was not good. Clumsy, hard to see on a sunny day and not waterproof.

I know I'm a bit of an outlier but I prefer stand alone gear. I can loose any one instrument and everything else still functions. And I don't care for overlays or small windows on one screen.

 

[Nimilaan4]

In that case I would recommend using it on a tablet as more of a dedicated chartplotter and just see how you use the boat and then make your decisions. Using old equipment would not gain anything and just cost more.

This is what I did with my first boat when we bought it a few years ago and it made my later buying decisions easier as I knew exactly what I needed.


Is it the 42 OA from NW Yacht net you are buying? Just curious as we are currently buying a Hershine from them.

Ok, sure would give me more screen real estate-
Yes, that is the one. We inquired about that Hershine too, but “someone” tied it up. She looks to be in real nice shape, hope everything works out for you.

 

[Nimilaan4]

What makes you think your existing radar is not good enough? With the older gear the issues are often resolved by learning how to set gain, anti-clutter and tuning.

Radar is a big decision starting with how much integration you want with the rest of the instruments. Unless you are sure you want stand alone or are sure what your target manufacturer will be you could be throwing money over the side to purchase too soon.

I'm in the same boat as Simi post #14. For the most part older gear that performs well. All stand alone. What integration I desire is by NMEA 0183. OpenCPN is my main plotter. With one exception, I recently purchased and installed the previous version Garmin GPSMap xsv for the fly bridge. Being the previous version I was able to purchase new at a significant discount with full warranty. Installation was easy. Weather resistant, daylight bright full charts for the west coast of North America. Weather resistant and daylight bright being the main criteria. Taking the laptop or tablet to the fly bridge was not good. Clumsy, hard to see on a sunny day and not waterproof.

I know I'm a bit of an outlier but I prefer stand alone gear. I can loose any one instrument and everything else still functions. And I don't care for overlays or small windows on one screen.

Hey Portage_Bay.

The surveyor said the radar wasn’t energizing. I have been leaning towards stand alone units simply due to what I’ve read about how busy the screen can become, especially radar.
I appreciate you sharing your strategy, it’s a lot to digest.. Thank you.

 

[ranger58sb]

Throwing this out there for you all… I can work with the chart plotter, especially since I have Navionics, but a couple days ago we were out and got caught in a low marine layer here in Puget Sound. First time for us, it made me really want a different Radar solution than this WW2 relic we have now to see beyond our eyes. Any thoughts on that since I’m fine with waiting on upgrading the rest??

The surveyor said the radar wasn’t energizing. I have been leaning towards stand alone units simply due to what I’ve read about how busy the screen can become, especially radar.

Not energizing is one thing...

But old (and old-style monochromatic display) doesn't mean bad. Tuning can be your friend... and it'd be the same tuning you'd have to learn how to do with a new color radar. Double-check that "not energizing" thing first, before next steps. If it works, next steps are to learn to tune the rascal. (And that'll carry over to the eventual replacement, too.)

One of our MFDs is tied to our radar. I usually use that MFD as a standalone radar display, often split with "near" on one screen segment and "far" on the other. Or sometimes radar in one segment, chart in the other.

It will overlay radar onto charts, but there are few scenarios where might want to do that. Also, I like radar in head-up, whereas I'm almost always more comfortable with charts in north-up. Very occasionally, both chart and radar in head-up with radar over-layed can be useful... but I can count that scenario on one finger, so far.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

If you're looking at MFD / chartplotter systems that support radar, I wouldn't go for a standalone radar. With networked MFDs, you can always "just add another display" to reduce screen clutter. Plenty of people use 2 or more MFDs and dedicate one to radar most of the time.

 

[Nimilaan4]

Not energizing is one thing...

But old (and old-style monochromatic display) doesn't mean bad. Tuning can be your friend... and it'd be the same tuning you'd have to learn how to do with a new color radar. Double-check that "not energizing" thing first, before next steps. If it works, next steps are to learn to tune the rascal. (And that'll carry over to the eventual replacement, too.)

One of our MFDs is tied to our radar. I usually use that MFD as a standalone radar display, often split with "near" on one screen segment and "far" on the other. Or sometimes radar in one segment, chart in the other.

It will overlay radar onto charts, but there are few scenarios where might want to do that. Also, I like radar in head-up, whereas I'm almost always more comfortable with charts in north-up. Very occasionally, both chart and radar in head-up with radar over-layed can be useful... but I can count that scenario on one finger, so far.

-Chris

Hey Chris-

I’ve reached out to the marine electrician the previous owner used , I’ll be adding that to the list of items to look at. Point taken, “old doesn’t mean, bad”. I should’ve said I want functioning and looks of this decade, lol. I was thinking that being able to overlay would be really useful. Just a few passes through memory lane… I guess there has been only a couple times where I would have really needed it. Many things to consider.

Appreciate your input

 

[Portage_Bay]

I was thinking that being able to overlay would be really useful. Just a few passes through memory lane… I guess there has been only a couple times where I would have really needed it. Many things to consider.

My thoughts on radar/chart overlay.
- Too much information on a small screen can be a problem. Things get covered or obscured. Small to me being less than 24". Sometimes 24" is on the small side if there is a lot to be displayed.
- I prefer my charts electonic or paper north up. It's what I'm comfortable with.
- Radar display orientation will be dependend upon the situation and available hardware. North up stabilized most of the time if the hardware supports it. Heading up entering or navigating in tight places.
- When not using overlay chart can be north up and radar heading up.

Think about this. It will determine what you purchase for a radar.

 

[rslifkin]

My thoughts on radar/chart overlay.
- Too much information on a small screen can be a problem. Things get covered or obscured. Small to me being less than 24". Sometimes 24" is on the small side if there is a lot to be displayed.
- I prefer my charts electonic or paper north up. It's what I'm comfortable with.
- Radar display orientation will be dependend upon the situation and available hardware. North up stabilized most of the time if the hardware supports it. Heading up entering or navigating in tight places.
- When not using overlay chart can be north up and radar heading up.

Think about this. It will determine what you purchase for a radar.

Even if you don't normally use the overlay (I wouldn't for those same reasons you listed) it may still come in handy occasionally to check the positional alignment of a chart in areas where you're not quite confident in the charts. As in "does the land the radar sees line up with the land the chart sees, or is the chart off?"

 

[Nimilaan4]

My thoughts on radar/chart overlay.
- Too much information on a small screen can be a problem. Things get covered or obscured. Small to me being less than 24". Sometimes 24" is on the small side if there is a lot to be displayed.
- I prefer my charts electonic or paper north up. It's what I'm comfortable with.
- Radar display orientation will be dependend upon the situation and available hardware. North up stabilized most of the time if the hardware supports it. Heading up entering or navigating in tight places.
- When not using overlay chart can be north up and radar heading up.

Think about this. It will determine what you purchase for a radar.

Hey Portage_Bay,

- I’m chuckling.. thinking about mounting a larger than 24” at the helm, time will tell. I’m definitely more used to heading up orientation currently. I’m so eager to get out there and play with the boats equipment.
I count myself fortunate to have a bunch of helpful seafarers willing to share their knowledge. I’d by you all a drink if we were together