shore power cord problems

[rwidman]

The euro wiring is frequently tinned , looks like they just dip the end of the wire 1/4 inch into a pot of melted solder.

This solidifys the end weather its tinned or just bare copper., making it crush resistant under a screw.

The installations for the standard Marinco 30 amp inlet warn specifically NOT to solder the wires before inserting them into the inlet. The connections are designed for stranded, not solid or soldered wire. There's a clamp that tightens on the conductors when you tighten the screw.

My original inlet wires were soldered. Apparently, not everyone got the memo.

 

[rwidman]

Funny how ABYC says screw connections of wires are OK but only if they have a plate in them...yet so many manfacturer's of marine equipment don't provide those terminations.

That's where you use ring terminals.

 

[tinped]

Electronic technician was my career.


Dielectric grease is "recognized" by Marinco, one of the largest manufacturers of shore power equipment.

two completely different industries.

 

[dhays]

Thanks for the suggestion to check and tighten the screw connections. That is something that I have not thought of. Also interesting to check the temperature of the connection. It makes so much sense but I would never have thought of it.

 

[sdowney717]

All electrical connections should be checked for tightness. I find outlets with loose wires, I know they were tight when I connected those wires. Wires compress under the screw, I suppose over time, higher amp loads expand the metals, then when the loads go away, the copper shrinks a little. It slowly works to make things get looser over time. This was why aluminum wires caused fires, since aluminum expansion rate was much greater than copper, the connections would loosen up, then aluminum also develops an oxide layer that does not conduct, that greatly increases the resistance, therefore heat.

When I upgraded to 200 amp service at the house, I used a goodly amount of that aluminum anti oxide grease on the aluminum main feeder wires.

 

[psneeld]

That's where you use ring terminals.

If you could...cause then I would have as a former marine electronic certified tech myself.

 

[FF]

If there is a proper terminal end the addition of a star washer under the screw head is a simple bit of insurance.

As the terminal warms it changes shape which over time loosens the contact.

The star washer keeps the contact better .

A great addition to the boat when terminal boards are being cleaned.

 

[tinped]

Psneeld,be careful removing the screws on the terminal boards you mentioned.Most have a tapered screw to prevent them from being completely removed or vibrate free.You can tell as when you loosen the screws,the pressure will increase,and then you must forcibly continue to turn counterclockwise.While they can be removed,you will compromise the manufacturers failsafe specs.Those backplates were specifically designed to capture stranded wire.If you feel that the connection is not always up to your standards(I agree),then this has become my solution.They are abyc approved,as long as they are captive.

 

[psneeld]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. No one mentioned terminal boards....these are external wire connections or the simple ends to a fuse block.

There are wire connections on devices with little holes exactly big enough to slip the properly sizes wire into. 90 degrees to that is a screw, with no terminal plate and are straight threaded and can be backed all the way out. These are not what ABYC wants but do come on approved, marine grade components.

A good example of something similar is a European terminal block.

 

[tinped]

ah,I thought you were referring to these type,my apologizies.

 

[psneeld]

The screws come out of those pretty easy to....I have a ready supply waiting in my bilge...

 

[O C Diver]

Believe my Magnum Energy inverter charger uses that type of terminal block (post #99) for the AC connections.

Ted

 

[tinped]

 

[psneeld]

Here is an example of the simple, no plate, crush the cable with a set screw fuse block

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Believe my Magnum Energy inverter charger uses that type of terminal block (post #99) for the AC connections.

Ted

The are commonly used for a lot of applications.

Older GBs use a lot of them. But they are black in color.

 

[tadhana]

"There are wire connections on devices with little holes exactly big enough to slip the properly sizes wire into. 90 degrees to that is a screw, with no terminal plate and are straight threaded and can be backed all the way out. These are not what ABYC wants but do come on approved, marine grade components."

The ABYC electrical standards apply to the AC and DC SYSTEMS on boats. They do not apply to equipment and components. These type of terminal strips are permitted in components and equipment. There are some component/equipment specific standards as well.

 

[psneeld]

"There are wire connections on devices with little holes exactly big enough to slip the properly sizes wire into. 90 degrees to that is a screw, with no terminal plate and are straight threaded and can be backed all the way out. These are not what ABYC wants but do come on approved, marine grade components."

The ABYC electrical standards apply to the AC and DC SYSTEMS on boats. They do not apply to equipment and components. These type of terminal strips are permitted in components and equipment. There are some component/equipment specific standards as well.

They are not "in" Equipment or components....they are how you attach them to your wiring.

If not required for 2/0 connection to a fuse block or 6 ga wire to a battery charger...then isn't requiring fancy crush plates and captive terminal ends some place else on a boat little odd?

 

[tinped]

those European style blocks are for use with low voltage application only,usually control wiring.You find them mostly in hvac control boards,etc.I have not seen them in other systems,but that is not to say that the European standards run adjacent to ul standards(which the abyc follows).I do not believe that they are rated for high voltage(over 55 volts) applications,but not sure.The electrical industry recently(not marine)has recently moved to pressure release connections (mostly in lighting)as a quick connect solution,and they are approved for 300 volt connections.An ever evolving industry that is tough to keep with.

 

[tinped]

Actually after further investigation,the European blocks are approved up to 27 amps,600v insulation rating,so they are high voltage approved.As I stated,I personally haven't seen them in any other application besides low voltage uses,that might change.American manufacturers are slow to adapt European standards.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Just to be clear, 600v is not high voltage.

 

[tinped]

just to be clear,the codebooks refer to anything over 55 volts as high voltage,anything over 600 volts is high tension.You stand corrected.

 

[Bruce B]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. No one mentioned terminal boards....these are external wire connections or the simple ends to a fuse block.

There are wire connections on devices with little holes exactly big enough to slip the properly sizes wire into. 90 degrees to that is a screw, with no terminal plate and are straight threaded and can be backed all the way out. These are not what ABYC wants but do come on approved, marine grade components.

A good example of something similar is a European terminal block.

AKA Euro Strip...
Bruce

 

[tinped]

Bob,my masters electrician license certifies me to work up to 600volt systems,anything above that requires a high tension certification,which I do not possess,never had the need.Anything under 55 volts,requires a low voltage installer certification,i.e.burglar alarms,etc. Manufacturers refer to high voltage as greater than 1000 volts for manufacturing purposes.Two different beasts.

 

[psneeld]

I only used the euro strip as an example of construction...

Not size, voltage, or use...only how more than I would think manufacturers expect you to fasten relatively large DC cables which if I remember BoatUS reports is a problem with fires.

 

[tinped]

They don't make those blocks rated for that kind of amperage.When you get into higher amperage,then you are required to use copper busbars,with all the rules that apply to them such as crossectional area,must be tapped and threaded,thickness,etc.

 

[psneeld]

Got news for you...that fuse block is a screw in only and rated for 400 amps.

I believe it is a class t fuse holder for inverters. The identical construction on my battery charger is 75 amps, but the same design, one wire larger is on the 100 amp charger. All to common on equipment I have come across.

Not sure what "rules" you are talking about...not sure even ABYC suggests what you are saying.

 

[tinped]

Have we moved on from terminal blocks to fuse blocks?Fuse blocks are required to be manufactured under the same requirements as busbars,hence the higher amperage ratings

 

[psneeld]

The point has really been about crush connections back to FFs post on tinning the end of wires either being good or bad.

Because equipment being manufactured and sold, but not in compliance with ABYC theory requiring crush plates...then would tinning the ends be good or bad?

 

[tinped]

personnaly,I would tin.without the plates,stranded wire has a tendency to mushroom,leaving strands without contact.This reduces the circular mil rating for the wire,derating its ampacity.But that is me,as there are many different opinions.I single screw attachment point is not even ul rated for stranded wire.Stakons are my first choice,but even with those,you need the correct tool with the correct dies.The hd crimpers are not a good choice,ratchet crimpers are.

 

[psneeld]

Thus why I continued the thread on FF's post that was suggested to not be in compliance with ABYC...well...if the equipment you are connecting to might require a bit of outside the box thinking...then so be it.